생생경제, 당신은 중산층입니까?

당신은 중산층입니까? you|middle class ¿Eres de clase media? Are you middle class?

이규상: 안녕하십니까? Lee Gyu-sang|how are you Lee Gyu-sang: Hello? <생생경제>에 이규상입니다. ||I am Lee Gyu-sang ||het is Lee Gyu-sang 生生経済(1)||イ・ギュサンです This is Lee Gyu-sang from <Vivid Economy>. 이현주: 안녕하세요? Lee Hyun-joo|hello Lee Hyun-joo: Hello? 이현줍니다. I will give you the current イヒョンを拾います This is Lee Hyun. <생생 경제>는 서울과 워싱턴을 연결해 우리 생활 속 생생한 경제 소식들을 전해드립니다. |economic||||||||||news|delivers |||ソウルと|ワシントンを|つなげて|||中の||経済|ニュースを|お伝えします <Vivid Economy> connects Seoul and Washington to deliver vivid economic news from our daily lives. 이규상: 지난 여름, 남한 정부에서 세금 제도 개편안을 내놓으면서 중산층의 기준이 새삼스럽게 논란이 됐습니다. ||summer|South Korean|government|tax|system|reform plan|presenting|middle class|standard|suddenly|controversy|became |||南韓|政府で|税金|制度|改定案|出しながら|中産階級の|基準が|改めて|論争|なりました Lee Gyu-sang: Last summer, the South Korean government proposed a tax reform plan, sparking renewed debate over the definition of the middle class. 정부에선 한 해 3,450만원-약 3만 4천 달러의 소득을 중산층으로 봤지만 국민 여론은 ‘그 정도는 중산층이 아니다'... 즉 소득이 더 높아야 중산층이라는 것이었습니다. the government|one|year|||30 thousand|4 thousand|dollar|income|as middle class|saw but|public|opinion|that|level|middle class|not||income|more|should be high|to be middle class|was |||||||||als de middenklasse|vond|de 국민|de publieke opinie|||||||||| 政府では|||||||||||||||||||||| The government considered an annual income of 34.5 million won - about 34,000 dollars - as middle class, but public opinion stated, 'That is not middle class'... meaning that a higher income is required to be considered middle class. INS - 뉴스 클립 INS - News Clip

이현주 : '중산층이 살아야 경제가 산다', '중산층이 희망이다'... 남쪽 경제 보도에선 자주 접할 수 있는 말인데요. |middle class|||||||economy|in reports|often|encounter|able|to be|phrase Lee Hyun-joo: 'The middle class must survive for the economy to thrive', 'The middle class is hope'... These are phrases we often encounter in southern economic reports. ‘중산층'... 북쪽에서 사용하지 않는 말이지만 그렇다고 북쪽에 중산층이 없는 건 아니죠. middle class|in the north|do not use|not|word but|that said|in the north|middle class|not existing|thing|isn't 'Middle class'... It's a term not used in the north, but that doesn't mean there is no middle class in the north. 한 나라 경제의 기둥이라 불리는 ‘중산층'... 오늘 <생생 경제>에서 알아봅니다. one|country|economy's|pillar|called|middle class|today|<Vivid|||we will learn The 'middle class', often referred to as the pillar of a nation's economy... Let's find out more in today's <Vivid Economy>. 이규상: 중산층의 사전적인 의미는 ‘경제적, 사회 문화적 수준이 사회의 중간 정도가 되며 스스로 중산층 의식이 있는 사회 집단’입니다. Lee Gyu-sang|middle class|dictionary|meaning||social|cultural|level|of society|middle|degree|being|self|middle class|consciousness|having|social|group Lee Gyu-sang: The dictionary definition of the middle class is 'a social group whose economic and socio-cultural level is at the middle level of society and has a consciousness of being middle class.' 북쪽에서 사용하는 개념 중 굳이 비슷한 걸 찾자면 소부르주아(쁘띠 부르주아) 정도가 될 수 있겠습니다. in the North|used|concept|among|necessarily|similar|thing|if I were to find|||bourgeois|about|could|be|there If we were to find a similar concept used in the North, it could be something like the petty bourgeoisie. 남쪽 뿐 아니라 대부분의 자본주의 국가에서 중산층을 얘기할 때 중요한 개념은 사실 경제력인데요. in the South|only|not|most|capitalist|in countries|middle class|talking about|when|important|concept|actually|economic power In most capitalist countries, not just in the South, the important concept when discussing the middle class is actually economic power. 경제협력개발기구 OEDC가 정의한 중산층은 전체 가정을 소득 순으로 나열했을 때 50%-150%인 가구를 중산층으로 분류합니다. Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development|OECD|defined|middle class|all|households|income|in order|listed|when|between 50% and 150%|households|as middle class|classify The middle class, as defined by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), classifies households that fall between 50%-150% of the median income as middle class. 50% 미만은 빈곤층으로 150% 이상이 상류층이 되는 것입니다. below|as the poor class|above|upper class|becoming|thing Less than 50% is considered the poor class, while more than 150% is considered the upper class.

이현주 : 사실 이런 중산층이 중요하게 부각되는 이유는 경제 때문입니다. Lee Hyun-joo|fact|such|middle class|importantly|highlighted|reason|economy|because Lee Hyun-joo: The reason why the middle class is highlighted as important is actually due to the economy. 중산층은 경제력을 갖고 있는 계층입니다. middle class|economic power|having|existing|class The middle class is a group that has economic power. 시장에 나가서 돈을 쓸 수 있는 계층이라는 얘기죠. in the market|going out|money|spending|able|existing|class that|means It means they are the class that can go out into the market and spend money. 중산층이 두터워지면 시장에서 소비가 활성화되고 또 국가적으로도 세금 수입이 늘어나게 됩니다. the middle class|thickens|in the market|consumption|activates|also|nationally|tax|revenue|increases|becomes When the middle class expands, consumption in the market becomes active, and nationally, tax revenue increases.

이규상 : 특히 중산층의 폭이 넓어진다는 건 그만큼 저소득층이 줄어든다는 얘기와 같습니다. Lee Gyu-sang|especially|middle class|breadth|widening|thing|that much|low-income class|decreasing|talk|is Lee Gyu-sang: In particular, the widening of the middle class means that the low-income class is decreasing. 경기 불황으로 중산층이 줄어 저소득층이 늘어나면 저소득층 지원을 위한 정부의 예산은 늘어나는 대신 세금을 내는 사람들의 숫자는 줄어드는 악순환이 이어집니다. economy|due to recession|middle class|decreases|low-income class|increases|low-income class|support|for|government|budget|increasing|instead|tax|paying|people's|number|decreasing|vicious cycle|continues If the middle class shrinks due to an economic recession and the low-income class increases, a vicious cycle occurs where the government's budget for supporting the low-income class increases, while the number of taxpayers decreases.

이현주: 바로 그렇기 때문에 빈민층을 줄이고 중산층의 폭을 넓이는 것이 국가 경제에 아주 중요한 목표가 되는데요. Lee Hyun-joo|right|that|because|poor class|reducing|middle class|breadth|widening|thing|national|economy|very|important|goal|becomes Lee Hyun-joo: That is precisely why reducing the impoverished class and widening the middle class is a very important goal for the national economy. 박근혜 대통령도 대통령 후보 시절, 현재 남한의 중산층 비율을 64%를 임기 안에 70%까지 끌어올리겠다는 공약을 내놓기도 했습니다. Park Geun-hye|also president|president|candidate|during|currently|South Korea's|middle class|ratio|64%|term|within|up to 70%|promising to raise|pledge|put forward|did President Park Geun-hye also made a promise during her presidential campaign to raise the current middle-class ratio in South Korea from 64% to 70% during her term.

이규상: 남한의 중산층 비율이 64%... 그러면 10명 중 적어도 6명은 중산층이라고 해야 하는데, 진짜 남한 사람들 그렇게 생각하나요? Lee Gyu-sang|South Korea's|middle class|ratio|then|10 people|among|at least|6 people|considered middle class|should|be|really|South Korean|people|that way|think Lee Gyu-sang: The middle-class ratio in South Korea is 64%... So, at least 6 out of 10 people should be considered middle class, but do South Koreans really think that way? 이 기자가 느끼기엔 어떻습니까? this|reporter|feels|how about What do you feel as a reporter? ***[...] 이현주 : 그렇지 않죠. Lee Hyun-joo|that's not true|right *[...] Lee Hyun-joo: That's not the case. 실제로 통계상의 중산층 55%가 자신을 저소득층으로 생각하고 있다는 조사도 있습니다. actually|in statistics|middle class|55% of|themselves|as low-income|thinking|that|survey also|exists In fact, there is a survey indicating that 55% of the statistical middle class considers themselves to be low-income. (현대경제연구원 설문조사 결과 2013.8월) 남한의 중산층을 OECD 기준으로 계산하면 월 소득 177만원에서 532만원 사이입니다. Hyundai Economic Research Institute|survey|results|monthly|||||||income|from 177 million won|to 532 million won|is between (Results of a survey by the Hyundai Research Institute, August 2013) According to OECD standards, the middle class in South Korea is calculated to have a monthly income between 1.77 million won and 5.32 million won.

이규상 : 1천 6백 달러에서 5천300 달러 선이라는 얘기네요. Lee Gyu-sang|1000|600|dollars to|5300|dollars|line|means Lee Gyu-sang: So that means between 1,600 dollars and 5,300 dollars. 그러면 남한 사람들은 어느 정도 수준이 돼야 진짜 중산층이라고 생각하나요? then|South Korean|people|to what|extent|level|should be|really|considered middle class|think Then, what level do South Koreans think one needs to reach to be considered truly middle class?

이현주 : 기준이 상당히 높습니다. Lee Hyun-joo|standard|quite|high Lee Hyun-joo: The standards are quite high. 지난해 남한 직장인들을 대상으로 한 설문 조사를 보면요. last year|South Korea|workers|targeting|a|survey|investigation|if you look According to a survey conducted last year among South Korean workers. 30평대 아파트에 살면서 월 노임 5천 달러 이상, 배기량 2천cc이상의 중형 자동차를 타고 다니고 현금 자산으로 10만 달러 이상, 해외여행을 일 년에 한번 이상은 가야 중산층이라고 할 수 있다고 하는 군요. 30-pyeong (approx 1000 sq ft)|apartment|while living|monthly|salary|5000|dollars|more than|engine displacement||mid-sized|car|driving|around|cash|assets|100000|dollars|more than|overseas travel|once|a year|once|more than|should go|considered middle class|to|possibility|there is|saying|it seems Living in a 30-pyeong apartment, earning a monthly salary of over $5,000, driving a mid-sized car with an engine displacement of over 2,000cc, having cash assets of over $100,000, and traveling abroad at least once a year are said to qualify as middle class.

이규상: 그 정도면 중산층이 아니라 상류층 아닌가요? Lee Gyu-sang|that|level|middle class|not|upper class|isn't it Lee Gyu-sang: Isn't that more like the upper class rather than middle class? 기준이 상당히 높군요. the standard|quite|is high The standards are quite high.

이현주 : 그렇습니다. Lee Hyun-joo|that's right Lee Hyun-joo: That's right. 전문가들은 이런 격차가 소득에 비해 지출이 많은 사회 구조 때문이라고 분석하는데요. experts|this|gap|income|compared to|spending|high|social|structure|due to|analyze Experts analyze that this gap is due to a social structure where spending is high compared to income. 높은 사교육비와 주거비용이 가장 큰 문제로 봅니다. high|private education expenses and|housing costs|most|big|problem|see They see high private education costs and housing expenses as the biggest issues. 이 기자, 미국의 사정도 궁금한데요. this|reporter|of America|circumstances also|I'm curious about This reporter is also curious about the situation in the United States. 미국 중산층의 기준은 어떻습니까? America|middle class|standard|how is it What is the standard for the middle class in the United States?

이규상 : 미국 중산층의 기준은 사실 경제적인 확실한 수치는 아닙니다. Lee Gyusang|America|middle class|standard|actually|economic|definite|figure|not Lee Gyu-sang: The standard for the middle class in the United States is not actually a definitive economic figure. 먼저 미국 공립학교에서 가르치는 중산층의 기준은 이렇습니다. first|America|in public schools|teaching|middle class|standard|is like this First, the standard for the middle class taught in American public schools is as follows. 미국에서 중산층이 되려면 자신의 주장에 떳떳하고, 사회적인 약자를 도와야 하며, 부정과 불법에 저항하는 것. in America|middle class|to become|one's own|argument|proud|social|vulnerable|must help|and|injustice and|illegal|resisting|thing To be middle class in America, one must be proud of their claims, help the socially disadvantaged, and resist corruption and illegality. 그리고 집에는 정기적으로 받아보는 비평지가 있을 것, 이렇게 되어 있습니다. and|in the house|regularly|receiving|critique|there will be|thing|like this|become|is And there should be a regularly received critique magazine at home.

이현주: 경제적인 기준은 전혀 제시가 되어 있지 않네요. Lee Hyun-joo|economic|criteria|at all|presented|become|not|isn't Lee Hyun-joo: There are no economic criteria presented at all.

이규상 : 오바마 미국 대통령은 집권 초기부터 중산층을 살리기 위한 여러 가지 정책을 내놓고 있는데요. Lee Gyu-sang|Obama|American|president|in office|from the beginning|middle class|to save|for|various|kinds|policies|putting out|but Lee Gyu-sang: President Obama has been introducing various policies to support the middle class since the early days of his administration. 앞서 말한 기준만을 가지고 정책을 만들기는 참 어렵겠죠? previously|mentioned|criteria only|with|policy|making|really|difficult right It would be really difficult to create policies based solely on the criteria mentioned earlier, right? 그래서 미국의 ABC방송이 미국의 중산층에 대한 공식적인 정의가 없다면서 중산층의 기준을 제시했는데요. so|American|ABC broadcasting|American|middle class|about|official|definition|saying there isn't|middle class|criteria|presented So, the American ABC network presented a standard for the middle class, stating that there is no official definition of the middle class in the U.S. 연간 수입이 3만 2천900달러에서 6만4천 달러이하를 기준으로 제시했습니다. annual|income|30000|||||dollars or less|as a basis|presented They suggested a criterion of an annual income between $32,900 and $64,000. 그러나 미국 역시 중산층의 기준과 실제로 국민들이 느끼는 기준에는 차이가 있습니다. however|America|also|middle class|criteria and|actually|citizens|feeling|criteria|difference|exists However, there is a difference between the criteria for the middle class in the U.S. and what the citizens actually feel. 여론조사에 따르면 미국 사람들 중에 약 42% 정도가 자신들이 중산층에 속한다고 생각을 하는데요. the opinion poll|according to|American|people|among|about|approximately|they|middle class|belong to|thought|do According to a survey, about 42% of Americans believe they belong to the middle class. 이중 10명 중에 9명 정도는 중산층 수준을 유지하는 게 10년 전보다 어렵다고 답변했습니다. among them|10 people|out of|9 people|approximately|middle class|level|maintaining|thing|10 years|than before|difficult|answered Of these, about 9 out of 10 responded that maintaining a middle-class level is more difficult than it was 10 years ago. 예전보다 먹고살기가 힘들다는 얘기겠죠. than before|making a living|difficult|must be saying This means that it is harder to make a living than before. 그리고 또 한 가지 재미있는 것은요. and|also|one|thing|interesting|is And another interesting thing is. 약 20년 까지만 해도 미국에서 중산층이 되려면 집을 소유하고 있어야 한다고 생각했지만 최근에는 중산층의 기준이 집 소유 보다는 안정적인 직장을 가지고 있는 것으로 생각이 바뀌었습니다. about|20 years|until|even|in the US|middle class|to become|house|owning|must|said|thought|recently|middle class|standard|house|ownership|rather than|stable|job|having|existing|as|thought|changed Until about 20 years ago, it was thought that to be considered middle class in the United States, one had to own a home, but recently the standard for middle class has shifted to having a stable job rather than home ownership.

이현주: 그렇군요. Lee Hyun-joo|I see Lee Hyun-joo: I see. 기준 소득이 중요하긴 해도 미국 만해도 중산층을 구분하는 기준이 연 소득이나 재산이 전부는 아닌 것 같은데요. standard|income|important|even if|US|alone|middle class|distinguishing|criteria|annual|income or|wealth|all|not|thing|it seems While standard income is important, it seems that in the United States, the criteria for distinguishing middle class is not solely based on annual income or wealth. 남쪽 인터넷에 얼마 전 각 나라의 중산층 기준이라는 글이 크게 화제가 됐습니다. South|on the internet|a little|ago|each|country's|middle class|standard|article|greatly|became a topic|became Recently, an article about the criteria for middle class in various countries went viral on the internet. 프랑스의 경우 중산층 대열에 끼려면 외국어 하나 정도는 할 수 있고 악기 하나 정도는 다룰 수 있으며, 직접 즐기는 스포츠가 있어야 한다. France's|case|middle class|in the ranks|to fit in|foreign language|one|at least|can|be|and|instrument|one|at least|able to play|be|and|personally|enjoying|sport|must be|there In France, to be considered part of the middle class, one should be able to speak at least one foreign language, play one musical instrument, and have a sport that they enjoy. 그리고 남들과는 다른 맛을 낼 수 있는 요리를 만들 수 있어야 하고 약자를 돕고 봉사활동을 꾸준히 해야 한다고 합니다. and|different from others|different|taste|to create|be|able to|dish|make|be|must|and|the weak|helping|volunteer work|consistently|must|said to|do Additionally, one should be able to cook dishes that have a unique flavor compared to others and consistently engage in helping the underprivileged and volunteer activities. 영국의 경우도 비슷한데요. UK's|case also|similar The situation is similar in the UK. 자신의 주장과 신념을 가질 것, 독선적인 행동을 하지 않을 것, 약자를 두둔하고 강자에 대응할 것, 그리고 불의와 불평, 불법에 의연히 대처하는 사람들을 중산층으로 보고 있습니다. one's own|beliefs and|convictions|to have|thing|self-righteous|behavior|not do|not|thing|the weak|support|to the strong|respond|thing|and|injustice|complaint|illegal|calmly|dealing with|people|as middle class|seeing|are People in the middle class are seen as those who have their own beliefs and convictions, do not act dogmatically, support the weak, confront the strong, and respond calmly to injustice, complaints, and illegality.

이규상: 두 나라 모두가 중산층의 기준을 경제적인 면이 아닌 문화, 사회적인 측면으로 보는군요. Lee Gyu-sang|both|countries|all|middle class|standard|economic|aspect|not|cultural|social|aspect|seems to be looking Lee Gyu-sang: Both countries seem to view the criteria for the middle class not in economic terms, but in cultural and social aspects. 그런데 일단 먹고사는 문제가 먼저 해결 되어야지만 저런 문화적인 여유도 즐길 수 있지 않을까 생각됩니다. but|first|living|problem|first|solving|must be|such|cultural|leisure|enjoy|possibility|there|might not|think However, I think that the issue of making a living must be resolved first before one can enjoy such cultural leisure.

이현주 : 오늘 <생생 경제>에서는 중산층에 대해 얘기하고 있는데요. Lee Hyun-joo|today|<Vivid|||about the middle class|regarding|talking|but Lee Hyun-joo: Today on <Vivid Economy>, we are talking about the middle class. 죽 들어보시니 어떠십니까? just|listening|how do you feel What do you think after hearing this? 여러분들은 중산층에 속하십니까? you all|middle class|belong to Do you belong to the middle class? 또 북쪽의 중산층은 어느 정도의 사람인지도 궁금한데요. also|northern|middle class|what|level of|people are|I'm curious about I'm also curious about what the middle class in the North looks like. 사실 북쪽 사정은 사실 다른 자본주의 국가들과는 많이 다릅니다. actually|northern|situation|actually|other|capitalist|countries with|very|different In fact, the situation in the North is quite different from that of other capitalist countries. 심지어 중산층이 늘어나면 일반 주민들의 생활이 더 어려워질 수 있다... 방송을 함께 하는 평남 문덕 출신 김정순 선생의 주장입니다. even|middle class|increases|ordinary|residents'|living|more|difficult|possibility|there|broadcast|together|doing|Pyongyang|Munduk|from|Kim Jeong-soon|teacher's|claim In fact, if the middle class increases, the lives of ordinary residents may become more difficult... This is the claim of Kim Jeong-soon, a teacher from Pyongnam's Munduk. 북쪽에서 무역일꾼으로 일했던 김 선생과 함께 중산층에 대한 얘기 나눠보겠습니다. from the north|as a trader|worked|Kim|teacher|together|about the middle class|regarding|conversation|I will have I will talk about the middle class with Mr. Kim, who worked as a trader in the north.

***[non-verbatim]*** *[non-verbatim]*

선생님 안녕하세요. teacher|hello Hello, teacher.

김정순 : 안녕하세요! Kim Jeong-soon|hello Kim Jeong-soon: Hello!

이현주 : 거리와 시장을 떠돌던 저희가 오늘은 스튜디오에서 뵙습니다. Lee Hyun-joo|street and|market|wandering|we|today|in the studio|meet Lee Hyun-joo: We, who have been wandering the streets and markets, are meeting in the studio today. (웃음) (laughs) (laughter)

김정순 : 조용하니 좋습니다. Kim Jeong-soon|it's quiet|good Kim Jeong-soon: It's nice and quiet. (웃음) (laughs) (laughter)

이현주 : 선생님, 선생님은 중산층입니까? Lee Hyun-joo|teacher|you|are you middle class Lee Hyun-joo: Teacher, are you middle class?

김정순 : 어휴, 저는 아직 아니죠. Kim Jeong-soon|oh|I|still|am not Kim Jeong-soon: Oh dear, I'm not yet. 서민 중에서도 아주 서민입니다. commoner|among|very|I am a commoner I'm very much among the common people.

이현주 : 조금 노력하면 될 수 있다고 생각하십니까? Lee Hyun-joo|a little|if I try|can|possibility|there is|do you think Lee Hyun-joo: Do you think you could become one with a little effort?

김정순 : 저는 좀 힘들겠지만 우리 큰 딸네를 보면 노력하면 얼마든지 될 수 있다고 생각해요. Kim Jeong-soon|I|a bit|it will be difficult but|our|big|daughter|when I see|if I try|anything|become|able|there is|I think Kim Jeong-soon: It might be a bit difficult for me, but when I see our eldest daughter, I believe that with effort, anything is possible.

이현주 : 역시 제일 중요한 기준은 경제적 능력입니까? Lee Hyun-joo|as expected|most|important|criterion|economic|ability Lee Hyun-joo: So, is the most important criterion economic ability? 선생님의 기준은 어떻습니까? teacher's|criterion|how about What is your standard, teacher?

김정순 : 그럼요. Kim Jeong-soon|of course Kim Jeong-soon: Of course. 우선 자기 집이 있어야겠고 일 댕기는 사람들은 자기 차를 갖고 있어야 하고 고정 직장이 있어서 한 달에 한 1억 정도 벌어야... first|own|house|must have|work|working|people|own|car|having|must have|and|stable|job|having|about|per month|about|100 million|around|must earn First of all, you need to have your own house, and people who work need to have their own cars and a stable job that earns about 100 million won a month...

이현주 : 네? Lee Hyun-joo|yes Lee Hyun-joo: Yes? 1억이면 10만 달러인데요. if it's 100 million|100000|dollars 100 million won is about 100,000 dollars. 너무 터무니없이 많이 보시는데요? too|absurdly|much|think Isn't that way too much?

김정순 : 아니에요. Kim Jeong-soon|no Kim Jeong-soon: No. 내가 어제 신문을 보니까 한 달에 17억 타는 사람도 있다는데요... I|yesterday|newspaper|I saw|one|month|17 billion|earning|person also|there is I saw in the newspaper yesterday that there are people who earn 1.7 billion won a month...

이현주 : 그러니까 신문에 나오죠. Lee Hyun-joo|so|in the newspaper|it comes out Lee Hyun-joo: That's what the newspaper says. (웃음) 선생님, 남한 사람들이 생각하는 중산층도 30평대 아파트 갖고 있고 중형차 굴리고 한 달에 노임 5천 달러 이상 타면 중산층이라고 그래요. (laughs)|teacher|South Korean|people|thinking|middle class also|30 pyeong (approx 1000 sq ft)|apartment|having|and|mid-sized car|driving|one|month|salary|5000|dollars|above|if earning|considered middle class|that's how it is (laughs) Teacher, South Koreans think that if you own a 30-pyeong apartment, drive a mid-sized car, and earn more than 5,000 dollars a month, you are considered middle class. 선생님이 신문, 방송으로만 너무 성공한 사례를 보신 것 같네요. the teacher|newspaper|only through broadcasting|too|successful|case|saw|thing|seems It seems like the teacher has only seen very successful cases through newspapers and broadcasts. (웃음) 그런데 남한 사람들, 실제로 중산층이면 중산층은 아니라고 하는 사람도 많습니다. (laughs)|but|South Korean|people|actually|if middle class|middle class|not|saying|person|many (laughs) However, many South Koreans say that if they are actually middle class, they are not really middle class.

김정순 : 너무 눈높이를 올려서 그렇지 뭡니까? Kim Jeong-soon|too|level of expectation|raised|isn't it|what is it Kim Jeong-soon: Isn't it because the expectations are set too high? 넘은 잘 사는데... 나는? others|well|living|I They are doing well... but what about me? 이런 생각을 하니까요. this|thought|I think I think like this.

이현주 : 중산층이라는 말은 남쪽 방송에서 또 생활에서도 쉽게 들을 수 있는 말인데요. Lee Hyun-joo|middle class|word|southern|in broadcasts|also|in life|easily|hear|able|to be|word Lee Hyun-joo: The term middle class is something you can easily hear in the southern broadcasts and in daily life. 북쪽에서도 사용하십니까? in the north also|do you use Is it used in the north as well?

김정순 : 아뇨. Kim Jeong-soon|no Kim Jeong-soon: No. 그런 말 쓸 줄도 모르고 안 쓰죠. such|words|to use|even|not knowing|not|use They don't even know how to use such words, so they don't use them. 중산층이라고 가릴 정도도 못 되는 상황이고요. called middle class|to distinguish|even to the extent|not|becoming|situation It's a situation that can't even be classified as middle class. 잘 사는 사람, 간부네 이러죠. well|living|person|executive|say They say things like 'well-off people' or 'executives'. 그런 말을 모릅니다. such|words|don't know They don't know such words.

이현주 : 그래서 선생님도 약간 중산층의 개념을 혼동 하셨군요. Lee Hyun-joo|so|the teacher also|slightly|middle class|concept|confusion|had Lee Hyun-joo: So, you were a bit confused about the concept of the middle class, teacher.

김정순 : 그래요. Kim Jeong-soon|that's right Kim Jeong-soon: That's right. 나는 지금까지는 잘 사는 계층을 얘기하는 줄 알았습니다. I|until now|well|living|class|talking about|line|thought I thought we were talking about the wealthy class until now. 공장 기업가들 같은 돈이 많은 사람을 중산층이라고 하는 줄 알았어요. factory|entrepreneurs|like|money|rich|person|called middle class|doing|line|thought I thought people with a lot of money, like factory entrepreneurs, were considered middle class. 지금 와서 보니까 내가 좀 잘 못 생각한 것 같습니다. now|having come|looking back|I|a bit|well|not|thought|thing|seems Looking back now, I think I may have thought about it a bit incorrectly.

이현주 : 북쪽에선 이런 말을 안 쓴다고 해도 남쪽에서 요즘 북한에 중산층이 늘어나고 있다... 이런 보도를 가끔 볼 수 있습니다. Lee Hyun-joo|in the North|such|words|not|say|even if|in the South|these days|in North Korea|middle class|increasing|exists|such|reports|sometimes|see|possibility|there is Lee Hyun-joo: Even if they say such things are not used in the North, these days in the South, we can occasionally see reports that the middle class in North Korea is increasing...

김정순 : 늘어날 수밖에 없어요. Kim Jeong-soon|increase|no choice but to|be Kim Jeong-soon: It can't help but increase. 사람들이 계속 못 살면 잘 살기 위한 눈이 트일 수밖에 없고 북한이 지금 그런 상황이고요. people|continuously|not|live|well|living|for|eyes|opening|no choice but to|not|North Korea|now|such|situation If people continue to live poorly, they will inevitably open their eyes to living better, and that's the situation in North Korea right now. 북한의 중산층은 사실 강냉이 밥이라도 굶지 않고 먹으면 그게 중산층인거지 별거 없습니다. North Korea's|middle class|actually|corn|even if it's rice|starving|without|eating|that|is middle class|anything|doesn't matter North Korea's middle class is really just about not starving and being able to eat corn rice; it's nothing special.

이현주 : 남쪽에선 중산층의 기준으로 아파트, 월소득 이런 걸 말하는데요. Lee Hyun-joo|in the South|middle class|as a standard|apartment|monthly income|such|thing|I'm talking about Lee Hyun-joo: In the South, the criteria for the middle class are things like apartments and monthly income. 북한의 기준은 지금 말씀하시는 먹는 사정일까요? North Korea's|standard|now|you are mentioning|eating|situation Is the standard in North Korea what you mentioned about food conditions?

김정순 : 북한에선 집도 제집이라고 할 수 없고 차도 국가적으로 승인 안 하고요. Kim Jeong-soon|in North Korea|even house|I can call my own|do|possibility|not|car|nationally|approval|not|do Kim Jeong-soon: In North Korea, you can't even say a house is truly yours, and cars are not approved by the state. 장사를 하고 뭘 하든 끼니를 건너지 않고 해먹을 수 있으면 그게 중산층입니다. doing business|and|anything|do|meal|skip|without|eat|able|if|that|is middle class If you can run a business and eat without skipping meals, that is the middle class.

이현주 : 또 북한은 경제적 문제가 권력과 또 뗄 수 없는 상황이니까 중산층의 기준도 권력과 떨어뜨려 놓고 생각할 순 없을 것 같습니다. Lee Hyun-joo|also|North Korea|economic|problem|with power|again|separate|possible|not|situation|middle class|standard|with power|separated|placed|to think|order|not|thing|seems Lee Hyun-joo: Also, since North Korea's economic issues are inseparable from power, I don't think we can consider the criteria for the middle class separately from power.

김정순 : 그렇죠. Kim Jeong-soon|that's right That's right. 남한에선 대통령도 현대 자동차를 나 혼자 사서 대거리 하겠다고 할 수 없잖아요? in South Korea|even the president|Hyundai|car|I|alone|buying|confront|saying that I would|do|able|isn't it In South Korea, even the president can't just say that they will buy a Hyundai car by themselves and show off, right? 북한에는 행정 간부, 보안부든 어디든 간부들은 다 할 수 있습니다. in North Korea|administrative|officials|security department or|anywhere|officials|all|do|able|exist In North Korea, administrative officials, whether from the security department or elsewhere, can all be in charge. 일반 장사꾼들도 권력을 꼭 끼어야 장사를 할 수 있습니다. ordinary|merchants also|power|necessarily|must be involved|business|do|able|exist Even ordinary merchants must have connections to power in order to do business. 어쨌든 펜대를 쥐고 상급 기업소 지배인 이상이 돼야 중산층이라고 볼 수 있지 대기업이라 아니라 어디라도 노동자는 어림도 없죠. anyway|pen|holding|upper|enterprise|manager|above|must be|considered middle class|see|able|be|large company|not|anywhere|workers|even close|not exist In any case, one must hold a pen and become a manager of a higher enterprise to be considered middle class; it's not about being in a large company, as workers have no chance anywhere. (웃음) (laugh) (laughs)

이현주 : 사실 중산층을 계속 얘기하는 게 중산층이 주요 소비층이기 때문이기도 한데요. Lee Hyun-joo|actually|the middle class|continuously|talking about|thing|middle class|major|consumer group|also because of|but Lee Hyun-joo: The reason we keep talking about the middle class is that the middle class is a major consumer group.

김정순 : 그러나 사회주의 경제 체제 아래선 중산층이 늘어나면 더 힘들어요. Kim Jeong-soon|however|socialist|economic|system|under|middle class|increases|more|difficult Kim Jeong-soon: However, under a socialist economic system, an increase in the middle class makes things harder. 세금이 없잖아요? taxes|don't exist There are no taxes, right? 북한의 중산층만 되도 시장에서 돈 안 씁니다. North Korean|middle class only|even if|in the market|money|not|spend Even the middle class in North Korea doesn't spend money in the market. 평민이어야 뭘 사다먹지요. you must be a commoner|what|buy and eat You have to be a commoner to buy something to eat. 솔직한 말로 저도 북쪽에서 중산층이라고 할 수 있는 위치였는데요. honestly|speaking|I also|in the north|considered middle class|able|to|be|position To be honest, I was in a position that could be considered middle class in the north. 저, 시장에서 닭알, 남새, 기름 안 사다 먹었습니다. I|at the market|eggs|vegetables|oil|not|buy|ate I didn't buy eggs, vegetables, or oil at the market. 농촌에서 가져다주는 사람들이 있어요. from the countryside|bringing|people|there are There are people who bring it from the countryside. 그렇게 하곤 나는 중국 다니니까 기름 같은 거 교체도 하고 그냥 갖다주기도 했습니다. that way|I did|I|China|since I go|oil|like|thing|replacement also|and|just|bringing|did So I would go to China and change things like oil and just deliver them. 이런 상황이니 저는 중산층이 늘어나면 인민이 더 힘들어 진다고 생각합니다. this|situation|I|middle class|increases|people|more|difficult|become|think In this situation, I think that as the middle class increases, the people will have a harder time.

이현주 : 그런 면이 또 있겠군요. Lee Hyun-joo|that|aspect|also|must exist Lee Hyun-joo: There is that aspect as well. 북쪽에서는 또 물건과 돈이 권력이니까요. in the north|also|goods and|money|because it is power In the North, goods and money are power.

김정순 : 그렇죠. Kim Jeong-soon|that's right Kim Jeong-soon: That's right. 북쪽에선 물건이 또 권력이고요. in the North|goods|also|are power In the North, goods are also power. 나 있을 때부터 사회주의는 없어졌지만 법은 사회주의, 실지 행동은 자본주의죠. I|there|from the time|socialism|disappeared but|law|socialist|actual|action|is capitalism Socialism has disappeared since I was there, but the laws are socialist, while the actual actions are capitalist. 인민들만 사회주의 법을 지켜야 하고 사회주의라면 식량공급이 돼야할 텐데 그것도 없고요. only the people|socialist|law|must follow|and|if it is socialism|food supply|should be|but|that too|is not there Only the people have to follow socialist laws, and if it were socialism, there should be food supply, but that is also lacking. 사회주의 사회에선 중산층 늘어나봤자 인민만 힘듭니다. socialist|in society|middle class|even if it increases|only the people|suffer In a socialist society, an increase in the middle class only makes it harder for the people.

이현주 : 중산층이 늘어난다고 경제에 보탬이 되진 않는다... 역시 북한 체제만의 특수성 때문에 이런 얘기가 나오는 것 같고요. Lee Hyun-joo|middle class|if it increases|to the economy|help|doesn't|happen|still|North Korea|only in the system|uniqueness|because of|this|talk|coming out|thing|seems Lee Hyun-joo: An increase in the middle class does not contribute to the economy... It seems that this kind of talk arises due to the peculiarities of the North Korean regime. 그러나 중산층이 잘 산다, 밥는 사람이 늘어난다는 건 북한 경제에도 중요한 거 아닙니까? however|middle class|well|lives|eating|people|increasing|thing|North Korea|to the economy|important|thing|isn't it However, isn't it important for the North Korean economy that the middle class is doing well and that more people are able to eat?

김정순 : 그런 그렇습니다. Kim Jeong-soon|that's|right Kim Jeong-soon: That's true. 북한에서 중산층을 좀 늘쿠자면 자체 개방이라도 해야한단 말입니다. If we want to increase the middle class in North Korea, we need to at least open up ourselves. 통행증을 없애고 교통을 원활히 하고 장사하는 사람에게 강압적으로, 권력으로 물건을 뺐고 이걸 못하게 해야하는데요. We need to eliminate travel permits, facilitate transportation, and prevent the authorities from forcibly taking goods from merchants. 북한이 그걸 승인할 수 있을까요? Can North Korea approve that?

이현주 : 결국 행동의 문제이지 방법적인 건 다 나와있는 상황이고요... 네, 이제 마무리를 해야겠네요. Lee Hyun-joo: Ultimately, it's a matter of action; the methods are already laid out... Yes, we should wrap this up now. 선생님도 중산층의 꿈 갖고 계십니까? you too|middle class|dream|having|are you Do you also have the dream of the middle class, teacher?

김정순 : 그럼요. Kim Jeong-soon|of course Kim Jeong-soon: Of course. 희망이 있죠. hope|exists There is hope. 근데 지금은 나이가 있으니까 고저 자식들이 잘 됐으면 좋겠다고 생각하는 거죠. but|now|age|since I am|my children|children|well|would be|good|thinking|thing But now that I am older, I think I just want my children to do well. 우리 딸 내외, 참 열심히 해요. our|daughter|son-in-law|really|hard|do My daughter and son-in-law work really hard. 그리고 여기는 중요한 게 배워가면서 일도 열심히 해야 앞으로 중산층이 될 수 있단 희망이 있는 것 같아요. and|here|important|thing|while learning|work also|hard|have to|in the future|middle class|become|possibility|that there is|hope|existing|thing|seems And here, it seems that the important thing is to work hard while learning, as there is hope to become middle class in the future. 그냥 일만 마냥 노동만 해서는 또 안 되고요. just|work only|endlessly|labor only|doing|again|not|work Just working and laboring alone won't do. 근데 좋은데 그 배우는 건 자기가 찾으면 다 길이 있고 또 제일 좋은 게, 성분 이런 거 상관없이 누구나 할 수 있다는 거죠. but|good|that|learning|thing|oneself|if you find|all|paths|exist|also|most|good|thing|background|such|thing|regardless of|anyone|can|possibility|that there is|is But the good thing is that if you seek it out, there are paths to learn, and the best part is that anyone can do it, regardless of their background. 북쪽도 좀 사람들이 오늘보다 내일이 좀 나을 수 있는 희망이 있었으면 좋겠습니다. the North|a little|people|than today|tomorrow|a little|better|possibility|to be|hope|would be|good I hope that the people in the north have a little hope that tomorrow will be better than today.

이현주 : 네, 오늘은 서민이어도 내일은 중산층이 될 수 있다! Lee Hyun-joo|yes|today|even if I am a commoner|tomorrow|middle class|to become|possibility|there is Lee Hyun-joo: Yes, even if you are a commoner today, you can become middle class tomorrow! 이런 희망이요. this|hope This is the hope. 남쪽 사람들, 대부분이 갖고 사는 희망이기도 합니다. the South|people|most|having|living|hope as well|is It is also the hope that most people in the south have. 네, 선생님 오늘 말씀 감사합니다. yes|teacher|today|talk|thank you Yes, thank you for your words today, teacher.

김정순 : 감사합니다. Kim Jeongsun|thank you Kim Jeong-soon: Thank you. *** *

이규상: 전 세계에서 중산층의 수가 가장 많은 나라는 어디일까요? Lee Gyusang|in|the world|middle class|number|most|many|country|where could it be Lee Gyu-sang: Which country has the largest number of middle-class people in the world? 바로 중국입니다. right|is China It is China. 초고속 경제성장과 함께 중산층의 비율도 급속히 늘고 있습니다. ultra-fast|economic growth and|together|middle class|ratio also|rapidly|increasing|is Along with rapid economic growth, the proportion of the middle class is also increasing rapidly. 미국의 주식거래시장 중 하나인 나스닥이 발표한 통계자료에 따르면 지난 2000년 중국의 중산층은 도시인구의 4%에 불과했는데 2012년에는 66%로 급증했습니다. of the US|stock trading market|among|one of|NASDAQ|announced|statistical data|according to|last|year 2000|China's||urban population's|4%|only|in 2012|to 66%|surged According to statistics released by NASDAQ, one of the stock markets in the United States, the middle class in China was only 4% of the urban population in 2000, but it surged to 66% in 2012. 이러한 추세를 유지한다면 2022년 도시 중산층의 비율은 75%이상으로 늘어날 전망입니다. this|trend|if maintained|year 2022|urban|middle class|ratio|over 75%|increasing|outlook If this trend continues, the proportion of the urban middle class is expected to exceed 75% by 2022. 6억3천만 명이 중산층이 된다는 얘기인데요. ||people|middle class|becoming|talk It means that 630 million people will become middle class. 이것은 미국인구의 두 배 가까이나 되는 규모입니다. this|American population|two|times|nearly|becoming|scale This is nearly double the population of the United States.

이현주: 중산층이 늘어난다는 얘기는 소비시장도 커진다는 얘기인데요. Lee Hyun-joo|middle class|increasing|talk|consumer market also|growing|talk Lee Hyun-joo: The increase in the middle class means that the consumer market will also grow. 많은 경제 전문가들은 중국의 소비시장이 곧 일본을 앞지르고 미국에 근접할 것이라는 전망을 내놓고 있습니다. many|economic|experts|China's|consumer market|soon|Japan|surpassing|to the US|approaching|thing|outlook|putting out|is Many economic experts predict that China's consumer market will soon surpass Japan and come close to that of the United States. 최근 삼성경제연구소에서는 ‘소비대국 중국’이라는 보고서를 통해 2015년 중국의 소비시장 규모가 6조1000억 달러로 미국에 이어 세계 2위가 될 것이라는 전망을 내놓고 있습니다. recently|at Samsung Economic Research Institute|'consumer powerhouse|China' report|report|through|in 2015|China's|consumer market|size|||dollars|in the US|following|world|second|become|that|forecast|presenting|is Recently, the Samsung Economic Research Institute released a report titled 'Consumer Powerhouse China', predicting that in 2015, China's consumer market size will reach 6.1 trillion dollars, making it the second largest in the world after the United States.

이규상: 중국 중산층의 기준, 분명이 미국의 중산층과 남한의 중산층 기준과는 많이 다르겠지만 중산층의 역할이 한 나라의 경제에 얼마나 큰 영향을 미치는지 잘 보여주는 실례인 것 같습니다. Lee Gyu-sang|China|middle class|standard|surely|US|middle class and|South Korean|middle class|standard and|very|different|middle class|role|one|country's|economy|how much|big|influence|having|well|showing|example|thing|seems Lee Gyu-sang: The criteria for the middle class in China are certainly very different from those in the United States and South Korea, but it seems to be a good example of how significantly the middle class can impact a country's economy.

이현주: <생생경제> 오늘 순서는 여기까지입니다. Lee Hyun-joo|<Vivid Economy>|today|order|ends here Lee Hyun-joo: This concludes today's episode of <Vivid Economy>. 지금까지 진행에 서울에서 이현주, 워싱턴에서 이규상이었습니다. until now|in the hosting|from Seoul|Lee Hyun-joo|from Washington|Lee Gyu-sang was This has been Lee Hyun-joo in Seoul and Lee Gyu-sang in Washington.

이규상: 저희는 다음 주에 또 찾아뵙겠습니다. Lee Gyu-sang|we|next|week|again|will visit you Lee Gyu-sang: We will visit you again next week. 청취자 여러분 안녕히 계세요. listeners|everyone|peacefully|stay Goodbye to our listeners.