#66 Serge & Marianne – NATO Appointment, Part 4
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#66 Serge 和 Marianne – 北约任命，第 4 部分
#66 Serge & Marianne – NATO Appointment, Part 4
Serge: J'avais une conversation avec un collègue justement à ce sujet.
Serge|I had|a|conversation|with|a|colleague|just|on|that|subject
Serge: I had a conversation with a colleague precisely on that subject.
Quand...suite à la première guerre du Golf, quand elle s'était déclenchée,
when|following|to|the|first|war|of|Gulf|when|it|it had|triggered
When... following the first Gulf War, when it had started,
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Serge: Donc, les Américains avaient tout de suite décidés d'intervenir et... bon, pour cette guerre effectivement, ç'avait fait l'unanimité.
Serge|so|the|Americans|they had|all|||decided|to intervene|and|well|for|this|war|indeed|it had|made|unanimity
Serge: So, the Americans had immediately decided to intervene and... well, for this war indeed, it had garnered unanimous support.
Il y avait une coalition énorme, les Français en avaient fait partis et de la même façon, ils avaient...avant vraiment qu'on décide d'envahir...enfin, d'aller...oui, d'envahir l'Irak, ce n'était pas encore très décidé.
there|there|there was|a|coalition|huge|the|French|they|they had|made|part|and|of|the|same|way|they|they had|before|really|that we|decide|to invade|finally|to go|yes|to invade|Iraq|it|it was|not|yet|very|decided
There was a huge coalition, the French were part of it and similarly, they had... before we really decided to invade... well, to go... yes, to invade Iraq, it wasn't very decided yet.
Il a fallu demander un peu, voir avec l'ONU, enfin tu sais, c'était des…c'était d'abord, au début, plus politique et puis, ils ont essayé de par le biais de la diplomatie et puis bon, enfin bref.
it|has|it was necessary|to ask|a|little|to see|with|the UN|well|you|you know|it was|some|it was|first|at the|beginning|more|political|and|then|they|they have|tried|to|by|the|means|of|the|diplomacy|and|then|well|finally|in short
It was necessary to ask a bit, see with the UN, well you know, it was... it was first, at the beginning, more political and then, they tried through diplomacy and then well, anyway.
Et, dans le bureau, on avait déjà entendu des échos comme quoi il fallait...ils allaient demander des volontaires pour aller là-bas parce qu'on allait envoyer une coalition donc l'armée française devait être présente, donc l'armée de l'air donc voilà.
and|in|the|office|we|had|already|heard|some|echoes|like|what|it|it was necessary|they|they were going to|to ask|some|volunteers|to|to go|||because|that we|we were going to|to send|a|coalition|so|the army|French|it had to|to be|present|so|the army|of|the air|so|there you go
And, in the office, we had already heard echoes that they needed... they were going to ask for volunteers to go there because we were going to send a coalition so the French army had to be present, so the air force, so there you go.
Et, dans le bureau moi, je disais "non, il faut absolument, d'abord, il faut la voie diplomatique absolument" voilà et le collègue, il dit "non, mais tu ne te rends pas compte de ce que tu dis.
and|in|the|office|me|I|I was saying|no|it|it is necessary|absolutely|first|it|it is necessary|the|way|diplomatic|absolutely|there|and|the|colleague|he|he says|no|but|you|not|yourself|you realize|not|account|of|what|that|you|you say
And, in the office, I was saying "no, we absolutely need, first, we absolutely need the diplomatic route" there you go, and the colleague says "no, but you don't realize what you're saying.
Ca m'étonne.
it|it surprises me
That surprises me.
Tout est militaire.
everything|is|military
Everything is military.
Tu devrais..." Je disais "Bien, justement, c'est justement parce que je suis militaire.
you|you should|I|I was saying|well|precisely|it's|precisely|||I|I am|military
You should..." I was saying "Well, precisely, it's precisely because I am military.
On n'est pas là pour faire la guerre.
we|we are not|not|there|to|to make|the|war
We are not here to make war.
On est là pour l'empêcher."
we|is|||to prevent it
We are here to prevent it.
Donc, s'il y a la guerre ok, on est là pour y aller mais au départ, on est quand même là pour empêcher les guerres, pour protéger les gens, pour empêcher les guerres.
so|if there is|there|there is|the|war|ok|we|we are|there|to|to go|to go|but|at|start|we|we are|still|still|there|to|to prevent|the|wars|to|to protect|the|people|to|to prevent|the|wars
So, if there is a war, okay, we are here to go to it, but initially, we are still here to prevent wars, to protect people, to prevent wars.
Et je dis si la voie diplomatique marche, pourquoi...alors, ils faisaient les fiers parce que les Américains avaient déjà essayé de...avaient déjà décidé d'y aller.
and|I|I say|if|the|way|diplomatic|it works|why|then|they|they were being|the|proud|||the|Americans|they had|already|tried|to|they had|already|decided|to go there|to go
And I say if the diplomatic route works, why... then, they were acting proud because the Americans had already tried to... had already decided to go.
Alors je disais "C'est sûr, vous faites les beaux, là, parce qu'il y a… les Américains, ils ont prévus d'envoyer deux cents ou trois cents mille hommes puisque là, ils avaient mis le paquet les Américains.
so|I|I was saying|it's|sure|you|you are making|the|handsome|there|because|that they|there|there is|the|Americans|they|they have|planned|to send|two|hundred|or|three|hundred|thousand|men|since|there|they|they had|put|the|package|the|Americans
So I was saying, "It's for sure, you guys are acting tough because there are... the Americans, they planned to send two hundred or three hundred thousand men since they really went all out, the Americans.
Mais nous, l'armée de l'air... enfin l'armée de l'air, l'armée française, on était...on a envoyé, je crois, dix-sept mille...donc c'était, en comparaison des Américains, nous c'était ridicule.
but|we|the army|of|the air|well|the army|of|the air|the army|French|we|we were|we|we have|sent|I|I believe|||thousand|so|it was|in|comparison|of|Americans|we|it was|ridiculous
But us, the air force... well, the air force, the French army, we sent, I believe, seventeen thousand... so it was, in comparison to the Americans, it was ridiculous for us.
Alors je dis "là, vous faites les beaux parce que vous savez que les Américains sont là.
so|I|I say|there|you|you make|the|handsome|because|that||||the|Americans|they are|there
So I said, "Right now, you guys are acting tough because you know the Americans are here.
Maintenant si les Américains décident de ne pas y aller, on va voir si toi, tu es prêt à y aller comme ça et voilà."
now|if|the|Americans|they decide|to|not|not|there|to go|we|we will|to see|if|you|you|you are|ready|to|there|to go|like|that|and|there you go
Now if the Americans decide not to go, we'll see if you're ready to go like that and there you go."
Moi, je ne dis pas qu'il ne faut pas y aller mais si la diplomatie permet de faire aboutir les choses, permet de faire reculer Saddam, pourquoi aller... voilà.
me|I|not|I say|not|that he|not|it is necessary|not|there|to go|but|if|the|diplomacy|it allows|to|to make|to achieve|the|things|it allows|to|to make|to retreat|Saddam|why|to go|there you go
I am not saying that we shouldn't go, but if diplomacy can bring things to fruition, can make Saddam back down, then why go... that's it.
Ce n'est pas une histoire de militaire ou de ne pas militaire.
it|it is not|not|a|story|of|military|or|of|not|not|military
It's not a matter of military or non-military.
Je dis d'abord la diplomatie et après oui, les armes.
I|I say|first|the|diplomacy|and|after|yes|the|weapons
I say first diplomacy and then yes, weapons.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Puis de toute façon, en général, comme on entend...en général, il y a beaucoup de critiques concernant l'armée et...l'armée, les guerres et tout ce qui se passe.
then|of|all|way|in|general|as|we|we hear|||there|there|there is|a lot|of|criticisms|concerning|the army|and|the army|the|wars|and|everything|that|that|it|happens
Then anyway, in general, as we hear... generally, there are a lot of criticisms regarding the army and... the army, wars, and everything that is happening.
Mais qui, en premier, décide de faire la guerre?
but|who|in|first|decides|to|to make|the|war
But who, first, decides to go to war?
Serge: Ah, bien ce n'est pas les militaires.
Serge|Ah|well|this|it is not|not|the|military
Serge: Ah, well it's not the military.
Marianne: Ce n'est pas les militaires.
Marianne|it|it is not|not|the|military
Marianne: It's not the military.
Serge: Bien non.
Serge|well|no
Serge: Well no.
Marianne: Ce sont bien les politiques?
Marianne|it|they are|well|the|politicians
Marianne: It's really the politicians?
Serge: Bien sûr, oui.
Serge|of course|sure|yes
Serge: Of course, yes.
Marianne: Donc, il est bien beau après d'accuser les militaires.
Marianne|so|it|he is|very|nice|after|to accuse|the|military
Marianne: So, it's really nice to blame the military afterwards.
Serge: D'ailleurs, qui a dit, ce n'est pas Clémenceau?
|moreover|who|has|said|it|it is not|not|Clemenceau
Serge: By the way, who said that, wasn't it Clemenceau?
Qui est-ce qui a dit... le grand politique français qui a dit : la guerre est quelque chose de trop grave ou trop important pour la confier aux militaires. "
who|is|this|who|has|said|the|great|politician|French|who|has|said|the|war|is|||of|too|serious|or|too|important|to|it|to entrust|to|military
Who was it that said... the great French politician who said: war is something too serious or too important to be entrusted to the military.
Marianne: Ah oui.
Marianne|Ah|yes
Marianne: Oh yes.
J'ai déjà entendu ça.
I have|already|heard|that
I've heard that before.
Je ne sais pas.
I|not|I know|not
I don't know.
Serge: C'est un homme politique français qui sous-entendait que la guerre se décide dans les ministères et puis après, voilà.
|it is|a|man|political|French|who|||that|the|war|it|it is decided|in|the|ministries|and|then|after|there it is
Serge: He is a French politician who implied that war is decided in the ministries and then, well.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Le début d'une guerre mais également la fin parce que même quand une armée n'est pas vaincue, une guerre peut se terminer en vaincu à cause...
the|beginning|of a|war|but|also|the|end|||even|when|a|army|is not|not|defeated|a|war|can|itself|to end|in|defeated|because|
The beginning of a war but also the end because even when an army is not defeated, a war can end in defeat because...
Serge: Bien, la preuve chez nous.
Serge|well|the|proof|at|us
Serge: Well, the proof is with us.
Marianne: De la diplomatie, puis...
Marianne|of|the|diplomacy|then
Marianne: Diplomacy, then...
Serge: Quand on a demandé l'armistice, De Gaulle lui, il n'était pas d'accord et c'est vrai qu'à l'époque, avec notre empire qu'on avait puisqu'on appelait ça un empire en Algérie, on pouvait très bien se replier en Algérie et continuer la guerre, hein.
Serge|when|we|has|asked|the armistice|De|Gaulle|him|he|he was not|not|in agreement|and|it is|true|that at|the time|with|our|empire|that we|we had|since we|it was called|that|a|empire|in|Algeria|we|we could|very|well|to|retreat|in|Algeria|and|to continue|the|war|right
Serge: When we asked for the armistice, De Gaulle, he was not in agreement and it's true that at the time, with our empire that we had since we called it an empire in Algeria, we could very well retreat to Algeria and continue the war, right.
Il n'y avait aucun problème.
it|there was not|there was|any|problem
There was no problem.
Marianne: Il y avait avec De Gaulle, il y a eu aussi quand même certains...je ne suis pas à fond pour De Gaulle.
Marianne|there|there|there was|with|De|Gaulle|there|there|there has been|had|also|when|still|some|I|not|I am|not|at|full|for|De|Gaulle
Marianne: There was with De Gaulle, there were also some... I'm not fully in favor of De Gaulle.
Non, il y a certaines qui...
no|there|there|there is|some|who
No, there are some who...
Serge: Pourtant lui, il voulait la continuer la guerre, hein.
Serge|however|him|he|he wanted|it|to continue|the|war|right
Serge: Yet he wanted to continue the war, right.
Marianne: C'était un politique en premier.
Marianne|it was|a|politician|in|first
Marianne: He was a politician first.
C'était un militaire mais au sein du gouvernement.
it was|a|military|but|within|the|of|government
He was a military man but within the government.
Au départ, il n'avait pas combattu et il s'est replié avec le…il était avec…le gouvernement était à Bordeaux et il s'est réfugié en Angleterre.
at|departure|he|he had not|not|fought|and|he|he has|retreated|with|the|he||||||||||he has|taken refuge|in|England
At first, he did not fight and he retreated with the... he was with... the government was in Bordeaux and he took refuge in England.
Serge: Objection, votre honneur!
Serge|objection|your|honor
Serge: Objection, your honor!
Marianne: Oui, bien sûr.
Marianne|yes|well|sure
Marianne: Yes, of course.
Serge: Objection, votre honneur.
Serge|objection|your|honor
Serge: Objection, your honor.
Il était...il commandait un régiment de chars où il a fait des exploits.
he|he was|he|he commanded|a|regiment|of|tanks|where|he|he has|made|some|exploits
He was... he commanded a tank regiment where he achieved great feats.
Avec très très peu de chars, il a réussi à tenir tête aux Panzers qui étaient les meilleurs chars du monde et après, il a été appelé au gouvernement....
with|very|very|few|of|tanks|he|he has|succeeded|to|to hold|head|against|Panzers|who|they were|the|best|tanks|of|world|and|after|he|he has|been|called|to|government
With very very few tanks, he managed to stand up to the Panzers which were the best tanks in the world and then, he was called to the government....
Marianne: Tu as lu son livre?
Marianne|you|you have|read|his|book
Marianne: Have you read his book?
Serge: Comme ministre de la guerre.
Serge|as|minister|of|the|war
Serge: As Minister of War.
J'ai lu son livre et j'ai lu Max Gallo.
I have|read|his|book|and|I have|read|Max|Gallo
I read his book and I read Max Gallo.
Marianne: Un livre qui...oui.
Marianne|a|book|that|yes
Marianne: A book that...yes.
Serge: Il me semble bien.
Serge|it|me|it seems|good
Serge: It seems good to me.
Maintenant,...
now
Now,...
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Serge: Tu as peut-être raison.
Serge|you|you have|||reason
Serge: You might be right.
Je crois que d'abord, il a commandé un régiment de chars.
I|I believe|that|first|he|he has|ordered|a|regiment|of|tanks
I believe that first, he ordered a tank regiment.
Il était lieutenant-colonel et il a...bon, on n'a pas pu résister aux Allemands.
he|he was|||and|he|he has|well|we|we have not|not|been able to|to resist|to the|Germans
He was a lieutenant colonel and he... well, we couldn't resist the Germans.
Ils avaient une supériorité telle que...et après, effectivement il a été appelé au cabinet, au ministère de la guerre.
they|they had|a|superiority|such|that|and|after|indeed|he|he has been|been|called|to the|cabinet|to the|ministry|of|the|war
They had such superiority that... and then, indeed he was called to the cabinet, to the Ministry of War.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Serge: Et là, bon bien il y a eu les épisodes de retrait du gouvernement sur Bordeaux et puis après l'armistice et après l'installation à Vichy.
Serge|and|there|well|well|there|there|there is|there were|the|episodes|of|withdrawal|from the|government|on|Bordeaux|and|then|after|the armistice|and|after|the installation|in|Vichy
Serge: And there, well there were the episodes of the government's withdrawal to Bordeaux and then after the armistice and then the installation in Vichy.
Bon, entre-temps lui, il avait gagné l'Angleterre.
well|||him|he|he had|won|England
Well, in the meantime, he had won England.
Maintenant, c'est à vérifier, Marianne.
now|it's|to|to check|Marianne
Now, that's to be verified, Marianne.
Marianne: Bon, peut-être que j'ai fait une erreur s'il n'a jamais combattu auparavant.
Marianne|well|||that|I have|made|a|mistake|if he|he has not|ever|fought|before
Marianne: Well, maybe I made a mistake if he has never fought before.
Bon, je ne suis pas sûr à 100 pour cent donc peut-être que...
well|I|not|I am|not|sure|at|for|percent|so|||that
Well, I'm not 100 percent sure so maybe...
Serge: En 14-18, il était lieutenant, et après il a fini capitaine et là il était prisonnier et d'ailleurs, ça l'a miné terriblement parce qu'il était prisonnier très tôt dans la guerre et en fait, il a été libéré à la fin de la guerre.
Serge|In|he|he was|lieutenant|and|after|he|he has|finished|captain|and|there|he|he was|prisoner|and|by the way|it|it has|undermined|terribly|||he was|prisoner|very|early|in|the|war|and|in|in fact|he|he has|been|released|at|the|end|of|the|war
Serge: In 14-18, he was a lieutenant, and afterwards he ended up as a captain and there he was a prisoner, and by the way, it really affected him terribly because he was captured very early in the war and in fact, he was released at the end of the war.
Il n'a pas pu...il a tenté de s'évader, je crois mais il n'a jamais pu et ça, ça l'a vraiment miné parce que lui, il voulait aller au combat.
he|he has not|not|been able to|he|he has|tried|to|to escape|I|I believe|but|he|he has not|ever|been able to|and|that|it|it has|really|worn him down|||he|he|he wanted|to go|to|combat
He couldn't... he tried to escape, I believe, but he never could and that really affected him because he wanted to go into combat.
Et d'ailleurs son chef de corps c'était le colonel Pétain à l'époque, et d'ailleurs il ne s'entendait pas trop bien avec lui, enfin bref.
and|by the way|his|chief|of|corps|it was|the|colonel|Pétain|at|the time|and|by the way|he|not|he got along|not|too|well|with|him|well|in short
And by the way, his commanding officer was Colonel Pétain at the time, and by the way, he didn't get along too well with him, anyway.
Et en 40 donc lui, il avait une doctrine que l'utilisation des chars qui était tout à fait différente de celle qui était préconisé par nos anciens de 14 justement les Pétain et compagnies qui étaient encore les...à l'ancienne école où eux, ils voulaient mettre des chars un petit peu partout pour...
and|in|so|him|he|he had|a|doctrine|that|the use|of|tanks|which|it was|completely|at|||||||recommended|||||||||||||||the old|school|where|they|they|they wanted|to put|some|tanks|a|little|bit|everywhere|
And in 40, he had a doctrine regarding the use of tanks that was completely different from that advocated by our elders from 14, precisely Pétain and company, who were still from the old school where they wanted to place tanks everywhere to...
Marianne: Mais moi, j'avais entendu aussi que son livre était un peu copié sur...comment il s'appelle le général allemand, là?
Marianne|but|me|I had|heard|also|that|his|book|it was|a|a little|copied|on|how|he|he is called|the|general|German|there
Marianne: But I also heard that his book was a bit copied from... what's the name of that German general?
Je ne me rappelle plus.
I|not|me|I remember|more
I can't remember.
Serge: Rommel?
Serge|Rommel
Serge: Rommel?
Celui qui commandait les Panzers?
the one|who|was commanding|the|Panzers
The one who commanded the Panzers?
Marianne: Non.
Marianne|No
Marianne: No.
Oui, non.
yes|no
Yes, no.
Ce n'était pas Rommel.
it|it was not|not|Rommel
It wasn't Rommel.
Serge: Pas Rommel?
Serge|not|Rommel
Serge: Not Rommel?
Ah, je ne sais pas.
Ah|I|not|I know|not
Ah, I don't know.
Marianne: Ah, je ne sais plus.
Marianne|Ah|I|not|I know|more
Marianne: Ah, I don't remember anymore.
Oh, je ne me rappelle plus son nom, bon c'est bon.
Oh|I|not|me|I remember|anymore|his|name|well|it's|good
Oh, I can't remember her name, well that's fine.
Je ne me rappelle plus, j'ai un trou.
I|not|myself|I remember|anymore|I have|a|hole
I can't remember, I'm drawing a blank.
Non bon, peut-être qu'auparavant concernant la guerre de 14 ou avant sa prise en fonction au gouvernement, je ne suis pas sûr donc tu as peut-être raison là-dessus parce que je ne peux pas affirmer.
no|good|||that before|concerning|the|war|of|or|before|his|taking|in|function|in the|government|I|not|I am|not|sure|so|you|you have|||reason|||||I|not|I can|not|to affirm
No good, maybe before regarding the war of 14 or before he took office in the government, I'm not sure so you might be right about that because I can't affirm.
Par contre, il y a une chose que je suis sûr parce qu'il y a eu un décret, c'était au journal officiel.
on the other hand|against|there|there|there is|a|thing|that|I|I am|sure|||there|there has been|had|a|decree|it was|in the|journal|official
On the other hand, there is one thing I am sure of because there was a decree, it was in the official journal.
Serge: Oui.
Serge|Yes
Serge: Yes.
Marianne: C'est que bon, déjà le gouvernement s'est replié à bordeaux.
Marianne|it's|that|good|already|the|government|it has|withdrawn|in|Bordeaux
Marianne: It's that well, already the government retreated to Bordeaux.
Serge: Oui.
Serge|yes
Serge: Yes.
Marianne: Il a profité d'une visite d'un Anglais.
Marianne|he|has|taken advantage|of a|visit|of an|English
Marianne: He took advantage of a visit from an Englishman.
Alors je ne sais plus si c'était un militaire ou un membre du gouvernement anglais qui était venu à Bordeaux et il en a profité pour partir là-bas.
so|I|not|I know|more|if|it was|a|military|or|a|member|of the|government|English|who|he was|come|to|Bordeaux|and|he|he|he has|taken advantage|to|to leave||
So I don't remember if it was a soldier or a member of the English government who came to Bordeaux, and he took the opportunity to leave for there.
Serge: Oui.
Serge|Yes
Serge: Yes.
Marianne: Et puis on dit le général De Gaulle mais quand il est revenu en France en tant que libérateur, il n'était pas général.
Marianne|And|then|we|we say|the|general|De|Gaulle|but|when|he|he is|returned|in|France|as|as|that|liberator|he|he was not|not|general
Marianne: And then we say General De Gaulle, but when he returned to France as a liberator, he was not a general.
Il a gardé son uniforme même en tant que président mais il n'était pas général parce qu'il a été nommé colonel...
he|he has|kept|his|uniform|even|in|as|that|president|but|he|he was not|not|general|because|that he|he has been|been|appointed|colonel
He kept his uniform even as president, but he was not a general because he was appointed colonel...
Serge: Objection votre honneur.
Serge|objection|your|honor
Serge: Objection, your honor.
Marianne: Tu objecteras après.
Marianne|you|you will object|after
Marianne: You will object later.
Il a été nommé colonel à titre temporaire et quand il est parti, il y a eu un décret, il a...attends, non.
he|he has|been|named|colonel|at|title|temporary|and|when|he|he is|left|there|there|there was|there was|a|decree|he|he has|wait|no
He was appointed colonel on a temporary basis and when he left, there was a decree, he...wait, no.
Il était colonel, il a été nommé général à titre temporaire, voilà.
he|he was|colonel|he|he has|been|named|general|at|title|temporary|there it is
He was a colonel, he was appointed general on a temporary basis, that's it.
Ensuite, il est parti en Angleterre, enfin il y a eu un schmilblick et puis le gouvernement qui était avant Vichy...
then|he|he is|left|in|England|finally|there|there|there is|there was|a|schmilblick|and|then|the|government|who|was|before|Vichy
Then, he went to England, well there was a schmilblick and then the government that was before Vichy...
Serge: Oui.
Serge|Yes
Serge: Yes.
Marianne: Donc, les lois du temps de Vichy ne sont pas valables mais celles d'avant, oui.
Marianne|so|the|laws|of|time|of|Vichy|not|they are|not|valid|but|those|from before|yes
Marianne: So, the laws from the Vichy period are not valid, but those from before are.
Et à ce moment-là, ça été fait avant Vichy.
and|at|this|||it|it was|done|before|Vichy
And at that moment, it was done before Vichy.
Donc, il a été remis au grade de colonel et défait de l'armée.
so|he|he has|been|reinstated|to the|rank|of|colonel|and|defeated|from|the army
So, he was reinstated to the rank of colonel and discharged from the army.
Serge: D'accord.
Serge|okay
Serge: Okay.
Marianne: Donc, il n'était plus général et plus membre de l'armée quand il était au gouvernement.
Marianne|so|he|he was not|more|general|and|more|member|of|the army|when|he|he was|in|government
Marianne: So, he was no longer a general and no longer a member of the army when he was in the government.
Serge: Voilà, c'est...d'accord.
Serge|here it is|it's|okay
Serge: Right, that's... okay.
Le problème, c'est que je pense que comme, et ça il l'a annoncé officiellement qu'il ne reconnaissait pas le gouvernement qui avait déposé les armes.
the|problem|it's|that|I|I think|that|like|and|that|he|he has|announced|officially|that he|not|he recognized|not|the|government|who|had|laid down|the|arms
The problem is that I think that, and he announced it officially, he did not recognize the government that had laid down its arms.
Il ne reconnaissait pas ce gouvernement, je pense qu'il a estimé qu'il n'était pas tenu d'appliquer les trucs là.
he|not|he was recognizing|not|this|government|I|I think|that he|he has|estimated|that he|he was not|not|obliged|to apply|the|things|there
He did not recognize that government, I think he felt he was not obliged to apply those things.
Je ne veux pas lui donner tort ou raison, je ne sais pas.
I|not|I want|not|to him|to give|wrong|or|right|I|not|I know|not
I don't want to say he is wrong or right, I don't know.
Et par contre, je confirme qu'il a bien décollé de Bordeaux parce que nous, on célèbre chaque année, le 17 juin...parce qu'en fait, il a décollé le 17 juin et il a fait son appel depuis la radio Londres le 18 juin mais il a décollé de Bordeaux effectivement avec un...oui, un...alors, je ne peux dire si c'était un diplomate ou un militaire.
and|by|against|I|I confirm|that he|he has|well|taken off|from|Bordeaux|because|that|we|we|we celebrate|each|year|the|June|because|that in|fact|he|he has|taken off|the|June|and|he|he has|made|his|call|from|the|radio|London|the|June|but|he|he has|taken off|from|Bordeaux|indeed|with|a|yes|a|so|I|not|I can|to say|if|it was|a|diplomat|or|a|military
And on the other hand, I confirm that he did take off from Bordeaux because we celebrate every year, on June 17...because in fact, he took off on June 17 and made his call from Radio London on June 18, but he did take off from Bordeaux indeed with a...yes, a...so, I can't say if it was a diplomat or a military person.
Oui, je crois que c'était un diplomate anglais effectivement.
yes|I|I believe|that|it was|a|diplomat|English|indeed
Yes, I believe it was indeed an English diplomat.
Il a profité d'un avion anglais qui était donc...pourquoi il était là, je ne sais pas exactement mais.
he|he has|he took advantage of|of a|airplane|English|who|he was|so|why|he|he was|there|I|not|I know|not|exactly|but
He took advantage of an English plane that was there...why it was there, I don't know exactly but.
Marianne: Et normalement, il n'aurait pas dû partir.
Marianne|And|normally|he|he would not have||had to|to leave
Marianne: And normally, he shouldn't have left.
Serge: Voilà.
Serge|here is
Serge: That's right.
Et il est parti donc un peu en catimini parce que lui, il voulait continuer la guerre.
and|he|he is|left|so|a|a little|in|stealthily|||he|he|he wanted|to continue|the|war
And he left a bit secretly because he wanted to continue the war.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Parce qu'au moment où l'anglais est parti, il a dit au revoir et puis...
because|that the|moment|where|the English|is|left|he|he|said|goodbye|goodbye|and|then
Because at the moment the Englishman left, he said goodbye and then...
Serge: Oui, tout à fait.
Serge|yes|all|at|made
Serge: Yes, absolutely.
Marianne: Et au moment où l'avion allait décoller lui, il est parti à toute vitesse...enfin, il est monté à toute vitesse.
Marianne|And|at|moment|where|the plane|was going to|to take off|him|he|he is|left|at|full|speed|finally|he|he is|climbed|at|full|speed
Marianne: And at the moment the plane was about to take off, he left at full speed... well, he got on at full speed.
Serge: Au dernier moment, voilà.
Serge|at|last|moment|here it is
Serge: At the last moment, there you go.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Serge: Voilà parce que nous chaque année, le 17 juin à Bordeaux, sur la base aérienne, on fait une cérémonie justement pour commémorer son...le départ du général De Gaulle le 17 juin pour Londres.
Serge|here is|because|that|we|each|year|the|June|in|Bordeaux|on|the|base|aerial|we|we do|a|ceremony|precisely|to|commemorate|his|the|departure|of|general|De|Gaulle|the|June|for|London
Serge: That's because every year, on June 17th in Bordeaux, at the air base, we hold a ceremony to commemorate the departure of General De Gaulle on June 17th to London.
Et donc...et après, on fait le 18 juin la cérémonie de l'appel du 18 juin, c'est...voilà.
and|so|and|after|we|we do|the|June|the|ceremony|of|the call|of|June|it is|there you go
And then... and afterwards, on June 18th, we have the ceremony for the call of June 18th, that's... there you go.
On aime ça, nous, les cérémonies.
we|we like|that|we|the|ceremonies
We like ceremonies, we do.
Voilà.
here it is
Here it is.
Marianne: Oui enfin, il y a beaucoup de choses, de pour, de contre, de bien, de pas bien.
Marianne|Yes|finally|there|there|there is|a lot|of|things|of|for|of|against|of|good|of|not|good
Marianne: Yes, well, there are a lot of things, pros, cons, good, not good.
Serge: Oui, ça.
Serge|yes|that
Serge: Yes, that.
On ne peut pas...de toute façon, on ne peut pas juger les gens à partir du moment où on n'a pas vécu cette période.
we|not|we can|not|of|all|way|we|not|we can|not|to judge|the|people|at|from|the|moment|where|we|we have not|not|lived|this|period
We cannot... anyway, we cannot judge people from the moment we have not lived through that period.
Marianne: Non.
Marianne|No
Marianne: No.
Serge: Qu'est ce qu'on aurait fait, nous, à la place?
Serge|what is|this|that we|would have|done|us|at|the|place
Serge: What would we have done in their place?
C'est difficile à dire.
it is|difficult|to|to say
It's hard to say.
C'est facile de condamner les gens mais quand tu te retrouves dans la situation, tu sais, on dit les gens qui...
it's|easy|to|to condemn|the|people|but|when|you|you|you find yourself|in|the|situation|you|you know|we|we say|the|people|who
It's easy to condemn people, but when you find yourself in the situation, you know, we say people who...
Marianne: Mais tu sais que…
Marianne|but|you|you know|that
Marianne: But you know that…
Serge: Il y en a qui parlent mais...
Serge|there|there|some|there is|who|they speak|but
Serge: There are some who talk but...
Marianne: Il y en a quand même qui se permettent de condamner et de juger.
Marianne|there|there|some|there is|when|even|who|themselves|they allow|to|to condemn|and|to|to judge
Marianne: There are still some who allow themselves to condemn and judge.
Serge: Bien sûr.
Serge|of course|sure
Serge: Of course.
Marianne: Hein ?
Marianne|huh
Marianne: Huh?
Et puis on n'a même pas le droit de dire "oui, mais attendez.
and|then|we|we don't have|even|not|the|right|to|to say|yes|but|wait
And then we don't even have the right to say "yes, but wait.
On ne peut pas savoir..." etc.
we|not|can|not|to know|
We can't know..." etc.
Non, c'est un fait établi, on doit condamner et il y en a qui se permettent à ça et ça, ce n'est pas normal.
no|it's|a|fact|established|we|we must|to condemn|and|there|there|some|they|who|to|they allow|to|that|and|that|it|it's|not|normal
No, it's an established fact, we must condemn and there are those who allow themselves to do this and that, it's not normal.
On peut condamner dans un certain sens et pas dans l'autre et ça, ce n'est pas juste.
we|can|to condemn|in|a|certain|sense|and|not|in|the other|and|that|it|it is not|not|fair
One can condemn in one sense and not in the other, and that is not fair.
Serge: Oui.
Serge|Yes
Serge: Yes.
Marianne: Et il y a certains autres faits qui n'ont rien à voir avec la seconde guerre mondiale hein, mais d'autres faits plus tard…de toute façon, le monde est plein de péripéties, hein.
Marianne|And|there|there|there is|some|others|facts|that|they have not|nothing|to|see|with|the|second|war|world|right|but|others|facts|more|later|in|any|way|the|world|is|full|of|adventures|right
Marianne: And there are some other facts that have nothing to do with World War II, you know, but other facts later... anyway, the world is full of twists and turns, you know.
Donc, par contre là, c'est...il y a des choses, bon...Bien, on va arrêter là.
so|by|against|there|it is|there|there|there is|some|things|well|well|we|we are going to|to stop|there
So, on the other hand, there are things, well... Well, let's stop there.
Serge: Oui.
Serge|yes
Serge: Yes.
Ca pourra faire le sujet d'un autre débat.
it|it will be able to|to make|the|subject|of a|another|debate
That could be the subject of another debate.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Serge: On va dire au revoir à tous le monde en espérant que ce sujet va intéresser les gens.
Serge|we|we are going to|to say|to|goodbye|to|everyone|the|world|in|hoping|that|this|subject|it is going to|to interest|the|people
Serge: Let's say goodbye to everyone hoping that this topic will interest people.
C'était agréable, c'était intéressant.
it was|pleasant|it was|interesting
It was pleasant, it was interesting.
Marianne: Oui, bien sûr.
Marianne|yes|well|sure
Marianne: Yes, of course.
J'ai bien apprécié de parler de tout ça avec toi.
I have|well|appreciated|to|to talk|of|everything|that|with|you
I really enjoyed talking about all this with you.
Serge: Oui, moi aussi parce que, pour une femme, je trouve que tu t'y connais beaucoup en choses militaires.
Serge|yes|me|also||that|||||||you|you know about it|you know|a lot|in|things|military
Serge: Yes, me too because, for a woman, I find that you know a lot about military things.
Marianne: J'aime bien.
Marianne|I like|well
Marianne: I like it.
Serge: Oui.
Serge|yes
Serge: Yes.
Marianne: J'ai même appris comment se...comment?
Marianne|I have|even|learned|how|to|how
Marianne: I even learned how to... how?
Est faite une grenade.
is|made|a|grenade
A grenade is made.
Serge: Wow, mais tu aurais dû faire une carrière dans l'armée.
Serge|Wow|but|you|you would have|had to|to make|a|career|in|the army
Serge: Wow, but you should have pursued a career in the army.
Qu'est- ce que tu fais dans l'éducation nationale?
|it|that|you|you do|in|education|national
What are you doing in the national education?
Marianne: Tu sais que j'aurais aimé et j'y ai réfléchi pas mal de temps quand j'avais, bien, dans les 18-19 ans.
Marianne|you|you know|that|I would have|liked|and|I thought about it|I have|reflected|not|a lot|of|time|when|I was|well|in|the|years
Marianne: You know I would have liked that and I thought about it quite a bit when I was, well, around 18-19 years old.
Serge: Oui, au moment où tu aurais pu.
Serge|yes|at|moment|where|you|you would have|been able to
Serge: Yes, at the time when you could have.
Oui, c'est vrai.
yes|it is|true
Yes, that's true.
Marianne: Oui, j'y ai réfléchi pas mal de temps et j'étais intéressé par l'armée de l'air, justement.
Marianne|yes|I thought about it|I have|thought|not|much|of|time|and|I was|interested|by|the army|of|the air|precisely
Marianne: Yes, I thought about it for quite a while and I was interested in the air force, actually.
Serge: Wow!
Serge|Wow
Serge: Wow!
Ca se trouve, on aurait été collègues, tu te rends compte?
it|it|finds|we|we would have|been|colleagues|you|you|you realize|account
Can you imagine, we could have been colleagues?
Marianne: Ca m'intéressait pas mal donc, j'y ai bien réfléchi et puis bon, bien j'ai laissé tomber.
Marianne|it|it interested me|not|much|so|I thought about it|I have|well|thought|and|then|well|well|I have|let|fall
Marianne: I was quite interested, so I thought about it a lot and then, well, I dropped it.
Serge: Et tu aurais peut-être même officié.
Serge|and|you|you would have|||even|officiated
Serge: And you might have even officiated.
Si ça se trouve, tu serais peut-être en train de me donner des ordres.
if|it|it|he/she finds|you|you would be|||in|the process of|of|me|to give|some|orders
Who knows, you might be giving me orders right now.
Tu serais peut-être mon chef.
you|you would be|||my|chief
You might be my boss.
Non, finalement tu as bien fait de prendre l'Education Nationale.
no|finally|you|you have|well|done|to|to take|the Education|National
No, in the end you did well to choose the National Education.
Marianne: Ca ne s'est pas fait mais c'est vrai que l'armée, j'aime bien.
Marianne|it|not|it has|not|done|but|it's|true|that|the army|I like|well
Marianne: It didn't happen but it's true that I like the army.
Serge: Oui.
Serge|Yes
Serge: Yes.
Marianne: Et je fais même mon lit au carré alors tu vois.
Marianne|And|I|I make|even|my|bed|in|square|so|you|you see
Marianne: And I even make my bed neatly, so you see.
Serge: Ah, en effet.
Serge|Ah|in|effect
Serge: Ah, indeed.
Oui alors.
yes|so
Yes then.
Marianne: Il y a longtemps....oh, pas mal de temps, une fois mon père, il me regarde faire mon lit, il me dit "fais voir, qu'est ce que tu fais... ton lit."
Marianne|it|there|there is|a long time|oh|not|bad|of|time|a|once|my|father|he|me|he looks|to make|my|bed|he|he|he says|make|to see|what is|this|that|you|you make|your|bed
Marianne: A long time ago....oh, quite a while back, once my father, he watches me make my bed, he says to me "let's see, what are you doing... your bed."
"Oui, oui, je le fais comme ça. "
yes|yes|I|it|I do|like|that
"Yes, yes, I'm doing it like this."
Serge: Moi, j'ai contourné le problème.
Serge|me|I have|circumvented|the|problem
Serge: I circumvented the problem.
Nous, on a une couette alors, c'est plus simple.
we|we|we have|a|duvet|so|it's|more|simple
We have a duvet, so it's simpler.
Marianne: Ah oui.
Marianne|Ah|yes
Marianne: Oh yes.
Serge: Alors, le lit au carré...
Serge|so|the|bed|in the|square
Serge: So, the bed squared...
Marianne: Ca change un peu parce que quand tu es vraiment...
Marianne|it|it changes|a|little|because|that|when|you|you are|really
Marianne: It changes a bit because when you are really...
Serge: Oui.
Serge|yes
Serge: Yes.
Je l'ai fait plus d'une fois, bien dis donc...le lit au carré.
I|I have it|done|more|than a|times|well|say|so|the|bed|in the|square
I've done it more than once, well, the bed squared.
Marianne: Quand tu n'es pas chez toi...Bien voilà, c'est… J'aime bien.
Marianne|when|you|you are not|not|at|home|well|there it is|it's|I like|quite
Marianne: When you are not at home... Well, there you go, it's... I like it.
Serge: Ok, bien écoute, à l'occasion, on reparlera de...
Serge|Ok|well|listen|at|the opportunity|we|we will talk again|about
Serge: Ok, well listen, on occasion, we'll talk about...
Marianne: Bon bien, j'espère que si jamais tu vas à Norfolk, on pourra se contacter parce ce que les...il y aura une différence d'heures.
Marianne|well|good|I hope|that|if|ever|you|you go|to|Norfolk|we|we will be able to|to|contact|because|that|that|the|there|||a|difference|of hours
Marianne: Well, I hope that if you ever go to Norfolk, we can get in touch because there will be a time difference.
Serge: Oui, mais de toute façon, si c'est bon je pense que juillet-aout, je vais passer en free à… en gratuit à LingQ pendant au moins deux mois parce que je ne pourrais probablement pas trop y aller et là-bas, je…bon je compte prendre internet.
Serge|yes|but|of|all|way|if|it's|good|I|I think|that|||I|I will|to spend|in|free|at|in|free|at|LingQ|for|at|at least|two|months|because|that|I|not|I could|probably|not|too much|there|to go|and|||I|well|I|I plan|to get|internet
Serge: Yes, but anyway, if it's good I think that in July-August, I will be on free at... for free at LingQ for at least two months because I probably won't be able to go too much and over there, I... well I plan to get internet.
Je ne sais pas du tout comment ça va se passer, si j'y vais hein toujours, bon je croise les doigts, si j'y vais et je compte reprendre les cours pour continuer à LingQ parce que ce n'est pas parce que je serais là-bas que je vais avoir d'un coup la science infuse et puis que je vais parler couramment anglais.
I|not|I know|not|at all|all|how|it|it will|to happen|to happen|if|I go there|I go|right|always|well|I|I cross|the|fingers|if|I go|I go|and|I|I plan|to resume|the|classes|to|to continue|at|LingQ||that|||||that|I||||||I||||||infuse||||||to speak|fluently|English
I don't know at all how it's going to go, if I go there, well I keep my fingers crossed, if I go and I plan to take the courses to continue at LingQ because it's not because I will be there that I will suddenly have all the knowledge and then I will speak English fluently.
Non, je sais que...
no|I|I know|that
No, I know that...
Marianne: Ca aidera.
Marianne|it|it will help
Marianne: That will help.
Serge: Et on aura quoi?
Serge|And|we|we will have|what
Serge: And what will we have?
6 heures, un truc comme ça?
hours|a|thing|like|that
6 hours, something like that?
Marianne: 6 heures, oui.
Marianne|hours|yes
Marianne: 6 o'clock, yes.
Serge: Oui, 6 heures bon, bien il n'y a pas de souci.
Serge|yes|hours|good|well|there|there is not|there is|no|of|
Serge: Yes, 6 o'clock, good, well there is no problem.
Enfin, il n'y a pas de souci...je ne connais pas mes horaires mais on trouvera bien à l'occasion.
finally|it|there is not|there is|not|any|worry|I|not|I know|not|my|schedules|but|we|we will find|well|at|the opportunity
Well, there is no problem... I don't know my schedule but we will find a time eventually.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Bon, bien je croise les doigts pour toi.
good|well|I|I cross|the|fingers|for|you
Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Serge: Merci, c'est gentil.
Serge|thank you|it's|nice
Serge: Thank you, that's nice.
Marianne: Donc, et bien on va se dire au revoir.
Marianne|so|and|well|we|we are going to|to|to say|goodbye|goodbye
Marianne: So, well, let's say goodbye.
Serge: Pour de bon cette fois-ci.
Serge|for|of|good|this||
Serge: For real this time.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Je te souhaite une très bonne soirée.
I|you|I wish|a|very|good|evening
I wish you a very good evening.
Serge: Merci.
Serge|thank you
Serge: Thank you.
A toi aussi.
to|you|also
To you too.
Marianne: Merci de cette très bonne discussion.
Marianne|thank you|for|this|very|good|discussion
Marianne: Thank you for this very good discussion.
Serge: Oui, c'était super sympa.
Serge|yes|it was|super|nice
Serge: Yes, it was really nice.
Marianne: Oui.
Marianne|Yes
Marianne: Yes.
Ok, j'espère que ça va intéresser tous le monde et puis...
Ok|I hope|that|it|it is going to|to interest|everyone|the|world|and|then
Ok, I hope this will interest everyone and then...
Serge: Pas de problème.
Serge|not|of|problem
Serge: No problem.
C'est les narrateurs qui font la discussion donc ça ne peut être que...ça ne peut qu'intérésser les gens.
it is|the|narrators|who|they make|the|discussion|so|it|not|it can|to be|only|it|not|it can|to interest|the|people
It's the narrators who are having the discussion, so it can only... it can only interest people.
Allez!
go
Come on!
On ne va pas se jeter des fleurs plus longtemps.
we|not|we are going|not|to|to throw|some|flowers|more|longer
We're not going to keep complimenting ourselves any longer.
Bonne soirée, Marianne.
good|evening|Marianne
Good evening, Marianne.
Merci et puis, à bientôt.
thank you|and|then|at|soon
Thank you, and see you soon.
Marianne: Au revoir, à bientôt.
Marianne|at|goodbye|until|soon
Marianne: Goodbye, see you soon.
Serge: Ok, au revoir.
Serge|Ok|at|goodbye
Serge: Okay, goodbye.
Bye, bye.
au revoir|au revoir
Bye, bye.
Marianne : Bye.
Marianne|Au revoir
Marianne: Bye.
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