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English LingQ Podcast 1.0, Thirty-eight: Steve and Jill, Childhood

Thirty-eight: Steve and Jill, Childhood

Steve: Hi, Jill.

Jill: Hi, Steve.

Steve: You know what, Jill?

I don't know where you were born and where you were brought up. Did you grow up here in Vancouver?

Jill: I did, in North Vancouver. I was born, actually, in a small town called Golden.

Steve: I've been to Golden.

Jill: Yeah, small town in British Columbia but we left when I was a year old. Actually, my mom left with us and my dad is from there and his whole family lives there so he stayed.

Steve: Oh, okay.

Jill: So, we grew up in North Van but always went back to visit.

Steve: I've been to Golden.

I mean, the scenery there is just spectacular.

Jill: Yeah, it's beautiful.

Steve: Spectacular. That whole area from Golden to Revelstoke, the snow, the quality of snow they get, the rocky mountains, the peaks, the skiing, I mean, it's really spectacular country.

Jill: Lots and lots of trees everywhere. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Steve: And it's nice in the summer too.

Jill: Very warm.

Steve: And it's very warm; hot.

Jill: And very dry.

Steve: Dry and hot.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: So, no, it's spectacular; it's spectacular country. Oh, I see, so you grew up in North Vancouver?

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: And gee, but that's kind of tough that, I guess, so your mom left.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: So, your mom had to bring you up? She had support, I guess?

Jill: Yeah.

Well, my mom's whole family lived here. She has six brothers and sisters and then my grandparents and we were always very close. We first lived with my grandparents when we moved back for a year, so. And my dad did come down, you know, once a month to visit us and we went up there for all the holidays. So, actually, we thought it was really cool because, you know, my dad had a big ranch and we had horses and we had dirt bikes and we got to drive vehicles when we were 12. Because he had all this land we could just drive, so we got to do all these things that none of our friends ever got to do.

Steve: So your dad was a rancher up there?

Jill: Well no, not really, he actually owned a sawmill for many, many years.

Steve: What was the name of the sawmill?

Jill: Soles; Soles Lumber Limited.

Steve: Alright.

Jill: He just bought a ranch at one point. He was never really a rancher; he just bought it just, I guess, for whatever reason, but had 1,200 acres on this ranch. So, you know, we would go for walks through the forest with the creeks running through and horses and so it was really great.

Steve: Oh, yeah, and especially in the summer.

Jill: Oh, yeah.

Steve: To be up there it must have been

Jill: Oh, it's light until 11 at night and it's just you don't hear any sounds. You don't hear any noises and you see all the stars in the sky.

Steve: So you went horseback riding too?

Jill: Yeah, I grew up riding horses.

Steve: Oh really. So, do you like to ride?

Jill: I don't; not any more. I used to just bug him solid when I was up there because when I was little I was too young to go by myself and I couldn't saddle the horses up myself so he always had to come and he was always so busy working. So, I was always bugging him to take me riding. And then when I was, I don't know maybe 13, I went to a camp for a week; a riding camp. And it was actually English riding though, where you do some jumping and stuff and I had always done western riding with the big horn on the saddle. And then when I was about 14-15, I just completely lost interest and I think I've been on a horse one time since then; just no desire anymore.

Steve: Really?

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: You know, that's very interesting. I guess I always try to relate everything back to language learning, but people go through periods where they like to do certain things and then they don't like to do certain things. I mean, they often talk, for example, in the case of young kids who play sports it might be a girl that's into whatever, basketball or gymnastics, or boys into hockey and some of them burn out.

Jill: Yeah and they could be very good.

Steve: They could be very good and all of a sudden at the age of 14 they're no longer interested.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: Very often the parents, they put so much into it. They see their child as this future ballerina or whatever it might be

Jill: an NHL star.

Steve: And the child loses interest.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: It’s the same with language learning. I confess now that I tried very hard to get my two boys, Mark and Eric, interested in language learning with, you know, no real success. And then, Mark, because he played hockey professionally in Europe and then in Japan, he got interested. So when he was in Italy and then he was in Austria and in Switzerland and in Japan, wherever he went, he tried to learn the language. And, you know, I've talked recently on my blog, thelinguist.blogs.com, about how in our school system we sort of treat everyone in the classroom as if they've all got an equal interest in learning languages.

Jill: Right.

Steve: So they all get the same treatment and they get a treatment that's, basically, if they aren't very interested in languages, it's going to discourage them. It gives them a lot of seemingly meaningless things to do and it teaches them meaningless things. And, you know, if it were only possible to nurture sort of an interest in language with young children and somehow allow them the freedom to explore so that they maintain that interest. And at some point, some of those kids, perhaps a larger percentage, will take that interest, you know, right to the extent that they are going to learn to be fluent in the language. But we don't do that, we've got to force it.

Jill: We force it on them.

Steve: We force it on them and some of them won't continue. Well, so what? So, you know, you were interested in horses and then you were no longer interested in horses, big deal; one way or the other.

Jill: I had different interests.

Steve: You had different interests.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: Now, if your father or your mother had said "no, we want Jill to be a horsewoman and she's got to do it", you know, that wouldn't have helped either. Jill: No.

Steve: No.

Jill: I wouldn't have enjoyed it and I probably would have been angry and bitter with them and, you know, who knows?

Steve: And what you have now is you have very pleasant memories

Jill: yes,

Steve: of the time that you enjoyed horses.

Jill: It's not a negative experience.

Steve: Right.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: And I think education has to be that way. There has to be more of an opportunity, especially for children but even for adults, to explore and discover things on their own. And the challenge in education is how do we stimulate that interest, how do we make it easier for them to cultivate that interest, but we shouldn’t be trying to force something at people.

Jill: Right.

Steve: And I think that's where you know, how many people have a pleasant recollection of their language studies in school?

Jill: You know, I don't know anybody who does, honestly. In Canada we were always made to learn French.

Steve: The English speaking population.

Jill: The English speaking population were always made to learn French. I think it probably varied, depending on the school, what grade you started at but at a certain point, you had to; it was mandatory. Do you know that I have not spoken to one person who was forced to do that who actually likes French? They all hate it. They remember very little aside from the basic "Hi, my name is" and "How are you?" You know, other than that, they don't remember. And French is a beautiful language and I'm not just saying that because I speak it because I have very negative memories of learning French too. I didn't enjoy my time learning it.

Steve: So you didn't enjoy the French you learned in school?

Jill: I didn't.

Steve: No.

Jill: I didn't.

Steve: It's a bit artificial isn't it?

Jill: Yeah, I didn't enjoy it. I didn't actually even enjoy my university courses very much, but I do still believe that French is a beautiful language and I do still want to improve and use it. But, I think that most people have a negative experience.

Steve: Of course now you have French on the LingQ System, so.

Jill: Exactly.

Steve: Hey, you can go to town and enjoy it.

Jill: That's right; that's right.

Steve: Yeah, I mean, I've mentioned this on my blog, I think I want to do this experiment. Take some children, maybe six or seven, and have a program in the schools which is called "Languages" and using a system like LingQ, allow the children to, say, look at a map of the world and on that map will be the languages that are available. In other words, we have, you know, audio books, like stories to listen to or to read, or we have videos, little short videos, in these languages and use a system line LingQ so that they can save words and keep track of the words that they're saving. So, they keep a little score and maybe tie it to "Snakes and Ladders" or some little game; make a game out of it. And so that all that we ask of them to do is that they will, in each year, explore one or two languages. Listen to it many, many times and children like listening to the same thing over and over again. I mean, children say "read me that story again. " Jill: Oh, and they'll watch movies a hundred times.

Steve: A hundred times, so they're ideal. And, of course, if they will listen to the story over and over again and gradually learn the words and so then one year they might do Swahili and the next year they might do Spanish and the following year they might do sort of Indonesian, it really doesn't matter, but they are expanding their mind; they are expanding their mind. I think that with a program like that, when they are say 15 or 16, they will be better language learners and at that time if they decide to learn French, they'll learn it in two years and so that they don't need 10 years.

Jill: They'll have learned some of the techniques.

Steve: They will have learned some of the techniques; their brain will be more flexible. Their brain will not resist the fact that different languages have different sounds, have different structures and so forth. I would like to do that as an experiment. The new approach so that we don't teach French, one language, like arbitrarily decide

Jill: you have no choice and this is how it's going to be taught.

Steve: Exactly. Of the thousands of languages in the world, we decide which language you are going to learn. Whereas it should be, there are all kinds of languages out there, which one do you want to explore? And next year you can explore another one. All we ask is that when you do decide to explore one, stay with it. So, you have to listen over and over and do these other things, for which I think LingQ is very suitable.

Jill: Yes.

Steve: So, anyway, that will be our next project. Anyway, so once again, the transcript for this podcast will be available at and I should say it will be the lingQ.com because very soon we'll be moving to the lingQ.com but also at thelinguist.com. You can also hear it at EnglishLingQ.com and we hope that you find the discussion interesting and with the transcript you can read and listen and, hopefully, improve your English at the same time. Thank you very much, Jill.

Jill: Thank you.

Thirty-eight: Steve and Jill, Childhood Achtunddreißig: Steve und Jill, Kindheit Treinta y ocho: Steve y Jill, Infancia Trente-huit : Steve et Jill, l'enfance Trentotto: Steve e Jill, infanzia 38歳スティーブとジル、子供時代 Achtendertig: Steve en Jill, Kinderjaren Trzydzieści osiem: Steve i Jill, dzieciństwo Trinta e oito: Steve e Jill, Infância Тридцать восемь: Стив и Джилл, детство Trettioåtta: Steve och Jill, barndom Otuz sekiz: Steve ve Jill, Çocukluk Тридцять вісім: Стів і Джилл, Дитинство 三十八:史蒂夫和吉尔,童年 第三十八集史蒂夫和吉尔,童年

Steve: Hi, Jill.

Jill: Hi, Steve.

Steve: You know what, Jill?

I don’t know where you were born and where you were brought up. Не знам къде сте родени и къде сте израснали. No sé dónde naciste y dónde te criaste. Je ne sais pas où tu es né et où tu as été élevé. Nerede doğduğunuzu ve nerede büyüdüğünüzü bilmiyorum. Did you grow up here in Vancouver? Израснахте ли тук, във Ванкувър? Burada, Vancouver'da mı büyüdün?

Jill: I did, in North Vancouver. I was born, actually, in a small town called Golden.

Steve: I’ve been to Golden. Steve: He estado en Golden. スティーブ:私はゴールデンに行ったことがあります。

Jill: Yeah, small town in British Columbia but we left when I was a year old. Jill : Ouais, petite ville de la Colombie-Britannique mais nous sommes partis quand j'avais un an. Actually, my mom left with us and my dad is from there and his whole family lives there so he stayed. Всъщност майка ми замина с нас, а баща ми е оттам и цялото му семейство живее там, така че той остана. En fait, ma mère est partie avec nous et mon père est de là-bas et toute sa famille vit là-bas donc il est resté. Aslında annem bizimle birlikte ayrıldı ve babam oralı ve tüm ailesi orada yaşıyor, o yüzden kaldı.

Steve: Oh, okay.

Jill: So, we grew up in North Van but always went back to visit. Джил: И така, ние израснахме в Северен Ван, но винаги се връщахме на гости.

Steve: I’ve been to Golden. Steve : J'ai été à Golden.

I mean, the scenery there is just spectacular. Имам предвид, че пейзажът там е просто впечатляващ. Quiero decir, el paisaje allí es simplemente espectacular.

Jill: Yeah, it’s beautiful.

Steve: Spectacular. That whole area from Golden to Revelstoke, the snow, the quality of snow they get, the rocky mountains, the peaks, the skiing, I mean, it’s really spectacular country. Цялата тази област от Голдън до Ревелстоук - снегът, качеството на снега, който получават, скалистите планини, върховете, карането на ски, искам да кажа, че това е наистина впечатляваща страна.

Jill: Lots and lots of trees everywhere. Джил: Много и много дървета навсякъде. Yeah, it’s beautiful.

Steve: And it’s nice in the summer too.

Jill: Very warm.

Steve: And it’s very warm; hot.

Jill: And very dry. Джил: И много суха.

Steve: Dry and hot.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: So, no, it’s spectacular; it’s spectacular country. Oh, I see, so you grew up in North Vancouver? О, разбирам, значи сте израснали в Северен Ванкувър?

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: And gee, but that’s kind of tough that, I guess, so your mom left. Стив: Ами, но това е доста трудно, предполагам, че майка ти е напуснала. Steve : Et bon sang, mais c'est un peu difficile, je suppose, alors ta mère est partie.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: So, your mom had to bring you up? Стив: Значи майка ти е трябвало да те отгледа? Steve: Entonces, ¿tu mamá tuvo que criarte? Annen seni büyütmek zorunda mı kaldı? She had support, I guess? Предполагам, че е имала подкрепа?

Jill: Yeah.

Well, my mom’s whole family lived here. She has six brothers and sisters and then my grandparents and we were always very close. Тя има шестима братя и сестри, а след това и баба ми и дядо ми, с които винаги сме били много близки. We first lived with my grandparents when we moved back for a year, so. За първи път живяхме при баба ми и дядо ми, когато се върнахме за една година, така че. Bir yıllığına geri taşındığımızda ilk olarak büyükannem ve büyükbabamla yaşadık. And my dad did come down, you know, once a month to visit us and we went up there for all the holidays. Баща ми идваше веднъж месечно, за да ни посети, и ходехме там за всички празници. And my dad did come down, you know, once a month to visit us and we went up there for all the holidays. Et mon père est venu, vous savez, une fois par mois pour nous rendre visite et nous y sommes allés pendant toutes les vacances. Mój tata przyjeżdżał do nas raz w miesiącu i jeździliśmy tam na wszystkie święta. Babam ayda bir kez bizi ziyarete gelirdi ve biz de tüm tatillerde oraya giderdik. So, actually, we thought it was really cool because, you know, my dad had a big ranch and we had horses and we had dirt bikes and we got to drive vehicles when we were 12. Всъщност ни се стори много готино, защото баща ми имаше голямо ранчо и ние имахме коне и мотори, а когато бяхме на 12 години, можехме да караме автомобили. Donc, en fait, nous avons pensé que c'était vraiment cool parce que, vous savez, mon père avait un grand ranch et nous avions des chevaux et nous avions des motos hors route et nous avons pu conduire des véhicules quand nous avions 12 ans. Because he had all this land we could just drive, so we got to do all these things that none of our friends ever got to do. Тъй като той имаше цялата тази земя, която можехме да караме, можехме да правим всички тези неща, които никой от нашите приятели не е правил. Parce qu'il avait tout ce terrain que nous pouvions simplement conduire, nous avons donc dû faire toutes ces choses qu'aucun de nos amis n'a jamais pu faire. Çünkü arabayla gidebileceğimiz bir sürü arazisi vardı, bu yüzden hiçbir arkadaşımızın yapamadığı şeyleri yapabiliyorduk.

Steve: So your dad was a rancher up there? Стив: Значи баща ти е бил животновъд там? Steve: Entonces, ¿tu papá era ranchero allá arriba? Baban orada bir çiftçi miydi?

Jill: Well no, not really, he actually owned a sawmill for many, many years. Джил: Ами не, не съвсем, всъщност той е притежавал дъскорезница в продължение на много, много години. Jill : Eh bien non, pas vraiment, il a possédé une scierie pendant de nombreuses années.

Steve: What was the name of the sawmill?

Jill: Soles; Soles Lumber Limited. Джил: Солес; Soles Lumber Limited.

Steve: Alright.

Jill: He just bought a ranch at one point. Джил: В един момент той просто си купи ранчо. Jill : Il vient d'acheter un ranch à un moment donné. Bir noktada bir çiftlik satın aldı. He was never really a rancher; he just bought it just, I guess, for whatever reason, but had 1,200 acres on this ranch. So, you know, we would go for walks through the forest with the creeks running through and horses and so it was really great. Така че, знаете ли, разхождахме се из гората, през която течаха потоци и коне, и беше наистина страхотно. だから、ご存知のように、小川と馬が走る森の中を散歩するので、本当に素晴らしかったです。 Ormanda yürüyüşe çıkardık, dereler akardı, atlar vardı ve bu gerçekten harikaydı.

Steve: Oh, yeah, and especially in the summer. スティーブ:ああ、そう、特に夏はね。

Jill: Oh, yeah.

Steve: To be up there it must have been Стив: За да бъдеш там, трябва да е било Steve : Pour être là-haut, ça devait être スティーブ:そこにいるためには Стив: Побывать там, должно быть, было Steve: Orada olmak için

Jill: Oh, it’s light until 11 at night and it’s just …you don’t hear any sounds. Джил: О, светло е до 11 през нощта и просто не се чуват никакви звуци. Jill: Oh, hay luz hasta las 11 de la noche y es solo que no escuchas ningún sonido. Jill : Oh, il fait jour jusqu'à 23 heures du soir et c'est juste que vous n'entendez aucun son. You don’t hear any noises and you see all the stars in the sky.

Steve: So you went horseback riding too? Стив: И така, вие също сте ходили на конна езда? Steve: ¿Así que también fuiste a montar a caballo? Steve : Alors tu as aussi fait de l'équitation ?

Jill: Yeah, I grew up riding horses. Джил: Да, израснала съм на коне. ジル:ええ、私は馬に乗って育ちました。

Steve: Oh really. So, do you like to ride? Обичате ли да карате?

Jill: I don’t; not any more. Джил: Не го правя, вече не. I used to just bug him solid when I was up there because when I was little I was too young to go by myself and I couldn’t saddle the horses up myself so he always had to come and he was always so busy working. Налагаше се да го подпитвам здраво, когато бях там, защото когато бях малка, бях твърде малка, за да отида сама, и не можех да оседлавам конете сама, така че той винаги трябваше да идва и винаги беше много зает с работа. Solía molestarlo mucho cuando estaba allí porque cuando era pequeño era demasiado joven para ir solo y no podía ensillar los caballos, así que siempre tenía que venir y siempre estaba muy ocupado trabajando. J'avais l'habitude de l'embêter quand j'étais là-haut parce que quand j'étais petit, j'étais trop jeune pour y aller seul et je ne pouvais pas seller les chevaux moi-même, donc il devait toujours venir et il était toujours très occupé à travailler. 私がそこにいたとき、私は彼をしっかりと悩ませていました. Ik stoorde hem gewoon als ik daarboven was, want toen ik klein was, was ik te jong om alleen te gaan en ik kon de paarden niet zelf opzadelen, dus hij moest altijd komen en hij was altijd zo druk aan het werk. Kiedy tam byłam, zawsze go podsłuchiwałam, bo kiedy byłam mała, byłam za młoda, żeby jeździć sama i nie mogłam sama osiodłać koni, więc zawsze musiał przyjeżdżać, a on zawsze był zajęty pracą. Oraya gittiğimde onu sürekli rahatsız ederdim çünkü küçükken tek başıma gidemeyecek kadar küçüktüm ve atları kendim eyerleyemezdim, bu yüzden her zaman o gelmek zorundaydı ve her zaman çalışmakla meşguldü. Раніше, коли я був там нагорі, я просто сильно дошкуляв йому, тому що коли я був маленьким, я був занадто малим, щоб ходити сам, і я не міг сам осідлати коней, тому він завжди повинен був приходити, а він завжди був дуже зайнятий роботою. So, I was always bugging him to take me riding. Така че винаги го убеждавах да ме вземе на езда. Entonces, siempre lo estaba molestando para que me llevara a montar. Donc, je l'embêtais toujours pour qu'il m'emmène faire du vélo. それで、私はいつも彼に私を乗せてくれるように悩ませていました。 Dus ik zat hem altijd te afluisteren om me te laten rijden. And then when I was, I don’t know maybe 13, I went to a camp for a week; a riding camp. And it was actually English riding though, where you do some jumping and stuff and I had always done western riding with the big horn on the saddle. Всъщност това беше английска езда, при която се правят скокове и други неща, а аз винаги съм се занимавал с уестърн езда с големия рог на седлото. Sin embargo, en realidad era la equitación inglesa, donde haces algunos saltos y esas cosas, y yo siempre había hecho equitación occidental con el gran cuerno en la silla. Et c'était en fait de l'équitation anglaise, où l'on faisait des sauts et des trucs et j'avais toujours fait de l'équitation western avec la grosse corne sur la selle. でも実際はイングリッシュライディングで、ジャンプやその他のことをやっていて、私はいつもサドルに大きな角を付けてウエスタンライディングをしていました。 Aslında İngiliz biniciliğiydi, atlama gibi şeyler yapıyorsunuz ve ben her zaman eyerdeki büyük boynuzla batı biniciliği yapmıştım. And then when I was about 14-15, I just completely lost interest and I think I’ve been on a horse one time since then; just no desire anymore. После, когато бях на около 14-15 години, просто напълно загубих интерес и мисля, че оттогава съм се качвала на кон само веднъж; просто вече нямах желание. Y luego, cuando tenía unos 14 o 15 años, perdí completamente el interés y creo que he estado montando a caballo una vez desde entonces; simplemente ya no tengo ganas. Et puis quand j'avais environ 14-15 ans, j'ai complètement perdu tout intérêt et je pense que j'ai été à cheval une fois depuis lors; juste plus envie. そして、14歳から15歳のとき、私は完全に興味を失い、それ以来、一度は馬に乗っていたと思います。もう欲望はありません。

Steve: Really?

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: You know, that’s very interesting. I guess I always try to relate everything back to language learning, but people go through periods where they like to do certain things and then they don’t like to do certain things. Предполагам, че винаги се опитвам да свържа всичко с изучаването на езика, но хората преминават през периоди, в които обичат да правят определени неща, а след това не обичат да правят определени неща. 私はいつもすべてを言語学習に関連付けようとしていると思いますが、人は特定のことをしたい時期と、特定のことをしたくない時期を経験します. Sanırım her şeyi dil öğrenmeyle ilişkilendirmeye çalışıyorum ama insanlar belli şeyleri yapmaktan hoşlandıkları ve belli şeyleri yapmaktan hoşlanmadıkları dönemlerden geçerler. I mean, they often talk, for example, in the case of young kids who play sports…it might be a girl that’s into whatever, basketball or gymnastics, or boys into hockey…and some of them burn out. Искам да кажа, че те често говорят, например, за малки деца, които спортуват, може да е момиче, което се занимава с каквото и да е, баскетбол или гимнастика, или момчета, които се занимават с хокей, и някои от тях прегарят. Je veux dire, ils parlent souvent, par exemple, dans le cas de jeunes enfants qui font du sport, il peut s'agir d'une fille qui aime n'importe quoi, basket-ball ou gymnastique, ou de garçons qui aiment le hockey et certains d'entre eux s'épuisent. つまり、たとえば、スポーツをする幼い子供たちの場合、よく話します。バスケットボールや体操に夢中になっている女の子や、ホッケーに夢中になっている男の子など、何人かは燃え尽きてしまいます。 Örneğin, spor yapan küçük çocuklar söz konusu olduğunda, basketbol ya da jimnastik gibi sporlarla ilgilenen bir kız çocuğu ya da hokey oynayan bir erkek çocuğu olabileceğinden ve bunların bazılarının tükeneceğinden sık sık bahsedilir.

Jill: Yeah and they could be very good. ジル:そうだね。

Steve: They could be very good and all of a sudden at the age of 14 they’re no longer interested. スティーブ:彼らはとても良い人で、突然14歳で興味がなくなった。

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: Very often the parents, they put so much into it. Стив: Много често родителите влагат толкова много. Steve: 多くの場合、両親はそれに多くのことを注ぎ込みます。 Steve: Çoğu zaman ebeveynler bu işe çok fazla emek harcıyor. They see their child as this future ballerina or whatever it might be Ils voient leur enfant comme cette future ballerine ou quoi que ce soit 彼らは自分の子供をこの将来のバレリーナまたはそれが何であろうと何と見なします

Jill: …an NHL star. Джил: звезда от НХЛ.

Steve: And the child loses interest.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: It’s the same with language learning. I confess now that I tried very hard to get my two boys, Mark and Eric, interested in language learning with, you know, no real success. Сега признавам, че много се опитвах да запаля двете си момчета, Марк и Ерик, по изучаването на чужди езици, но без особен успех. Confieso ahora que me esforcé mucho para que mis dos hijos, Mark y Eric, se interesaran en el aprendizaje de idiomas sin, ya sabes, ningún éxito real. J'avoue maintenant que j'ai essayé très fort d'intéresser mes deux garçons, Mark et Eric, à l'apprentissage des langues avec, vous savez, aucun réel succès. And then, Mark, because he played hockey professionally in Europe and then in Japan, he got interested. So when he was in Italy and then he was in Austria and in Switzerland and in Japan, wherever he went, he tried to learn the language. And, you know, I’ve talked recently on my blog, thelinguist.blogs.com, about how in our school system we sort of treat everyone in the classroom as if they’ve all got an equal interest in learning languages. И знаете ли, наскоро говорих в блога си thelinguist.blogs.com за това как в нашата училищна система се отнасяме към всички в класната стая, сякаш всички имат еднакъв интерес към изучаването на езици. Et, vous savez, j'ai parlé récemment sur mon blog, thelinguist.blogs.com, de la façon dont, dans notre système scolaire, nous traitons en quelque sorte tout le monde dans la classe comme s'ils avaient tous le même intérêt à apprendre les langues. そして、ご存知のように、私は最近、私のブログthelinguist.blogs.comで、私たちの学校のシステムで、教室の全員が言語学習に平等に関心を持っているかのように、教室の全員をどのように扱うかについて話しました。

Jill: Right.

Steve: So they all get the same treatment and they get a treatment that’s, basically, if they aren’t very interested in languages, it’s going to discourage them. Стив: Така че всички те получават еднакво отношение и се третират по начин, който по принцип, ако не се интересуват много от езици, ще ги обезкуражи. It gives them a lot of seemingly meaningless things to do and it teaches them meaningless things. Тя им дава много привидно безсмислени неща за вършене и ги учи на безсмислени неща. Cela leur donne beaucoup de choses apparemment insignifiantes à faire et cela leur enseigne des choses insignifiantes. Onlara yapmaları için anlamsız görünen pek çok şey veriyor ve anlamsız şeyler öğretiyor. And, you know, if it were only possible to nurture sort of an interest in language with young children and somehow allow them the freedom to explore so that they maintain that interest. И, знаете ли, ако беше възможно да се подхранва интересът към езика при малките деца и по някакъв начин да им се даде свободата да изследват, така че да запазят този интерес. Et, vous savez, s'il était seulement possible de nourrir une sorte d'intérêt pour le langage chez les jeunes enfants et de leur permettre d'une manière ou d'une autre la liberté d'explorer afin qu'ils maintiennent cet intérêt. Ve bilirsiniz, keşke küçük çocuklarda dile karşı bir tür ilgi uyandırmak ve bir şekilde bu ilgiyi sürdürmeleri için onlara keşfetme özgürlüğü tanımak mümkün olsaydı. And at some point, some of those kids, perhaps a larger percentage, will take that interest, you know, right to the extent that they are going to learn to be fluent in the language. И в един момент някои от тези деца, може би по-голям процент, ще проявят интерес към езика до степен, в която ще се научат да го владеят свободно. Et à un moment donné, certains de ces enfants, peut-être un plus grand pourcentage, prendront cet intérêt, vous savez, dans la mesure où ils apprendront à parler couramment la langue. Ve bir noktada, bu çocuklardan bazıları, belki de daha büyük bir yüzdesi, bu ilgiyi dili akıcı bir şekilde öğrenmeye kadar götürecektir. But we don’t do that, we’ve got to force it. Но ние не го правим, а трябва да го наложим. Mais nous ne le faisons pas, nous devons le forcer. Ama biz bunu yapmıyoruz, zorlamamız gerekiyor.

Jill: We force it on them. Джил: Налагаме им го. Jill: Les obligamos. Jill: Onları zorluyoruz.

Steve: We force it on them and some of them won’t continue. Well, so what? И какво от това? Bueno, ¿y qué? So, you know, you were interested in horses and then you were no longer interested in horses, big deal; one way or the other. Така че, знаете ли, интересували сте се от коне, а след това вече не сте се интересували от коне, голяма работа; така или иначе. Entonces, ya sabes, estabas interesado en los caballos y luego ya no estabas interesado en los caballos, gran cosa; De una u otra forma. Donc, tu sais, tu t'intéressais aux chevaux et puis tu ne t'intéressais plus aux chevaux, gros problème ; d'une façon ou d'une autre. Dus, weet je, je was geïnteresseerd in paarden en toen was je niet langer geïnteresseerd in paarden, big deal; op welke manier dan ook. Yani, bilirsiniz, atlarla ilgileniyordunuz ve sonra artık atlarla ilgilenmiyordunuz, önemli değil; öyle ya da böyle.

Jill: I had different interests.

Steve: You had different interests.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: Now, if your father or your mother had said "no, we want Jill to be a horsewoman and she’s got to do it", you know, that wouldn’t have helped either. Стив: Ако баща ти или майка ти бяха казали: "Не, искаме Джил да бъде конярка и тя трябва да го направи", това също нямаше да помогне. Steve : Maintenant, si votre père ou votre mère avait dit "non, nous voulons que Jill soit une cavalière et elle doit le faire", vous savez, cela n'aurait pas aidé non plus. スティーブ:さて、もしあなたの父またはあなたの母親が「いいえ、私たちはジルに馬術師になりたい、そして彼女はそれをしなければならない」と言っていたら、それも助けにはならなかっただろう。 Steve: Şimdi, eğer babanız ya da anneniz "hayır, Jill'in bir at kadını olmasını istiyoruz ve bunu yapmak zorunda" deseydi, bilirsiniz, bu da yardımcı olmazdı. Jill: No.

Steve: No.

Jill: I wouldn’t have enjoyed it and I probably would have been angry and bitter with them and, you know, who knows? Джил: Нямаше да ми хареса и вероятно щях да съм ядосана и озлобена към тях и, знаете ли, кой знае?

Steve: And what you have now is you have very pleasant memories Steve : Et ce que vous avez maintenant, c'est que vous avez des souvenirs très agréables

Jill: …yes,

Steve: of the time that you enjoyed horses.

Jill: It’s not a negative experience.

Steve: Right.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: And I think education has to be that way. There has to be more of an opportunity, especially for children but even for adults, to explore and discover things on their own. Трябва да има повече възможности, особено за децата, но дори и за възрастните, да изследват и откриват нещата сами. And the challenge in education is how do we stimulate that interest, how do we make it easier for them to cultivate that interest, but we shouldn’t be trying to force something at people. Предизвикателството в образованието е как да стимулираме този интерес, как да улесним развитието му, но не бива да се опитваме да налагаме нещо на хората. Et le défi dans l'éducation est de savoir comment stimuler cet intérêt, comment faire en sorte qu'il soit plus facile pour eux de cultiver cet intérêt, mais nous ne devrions pas essayer d'imposer quelque chose aux gens.

Jill: Right.

Steve: And I think that’s where…you know, how many people have a pleasant recollection of their language studies in school? Стив: И мисля, че точно тук, знаете ли, колко хора си спомнят приятно за изучаването на езици в училище?

Jill: You know, I don’t know anybody who does, honestly. Джил: Знаеш ли, честно казано, не познавам никой, който да го прави. Jill : Vous savez, je ne connais personne qui le fasse, honnêtement. In Canada we were always made to learn French. В Канада винаги ни караха да учим френски. Kanada'da her zaman Fransızca öğrenmek zorunda bırakıldık.

Steve: The English speaking population. スティーブ: 英語を話す人口です。

Jill: The English speaking population were always made to learn French. Джил: Англоговорящото население винаги е било принуждавано да учи френски. I think it probably varied, depending on the school, what grade you started at but at a certain point, you had to; it was mandatory. Мисля, че вероятно е било различно в зависимост от училището, от кой клас сте започнали, но в определен момент трябваше да го направите; беше задължително. Je pense que cela variait probablement, en fonction de l'école, de la classe à laquelle vous avez commencé, mais à un certain moment, vous deviez le faire ; c'était obligatoire. Sanırım okula, hangi sınıfta başladığınıza bağlı olarak değişiyordu ama belli bir noktada mecburdunuz; zorunluydu. Do you know that I have not spoken to one person who was forced to do that who actually likes French? Знаете ли, че не съм говорил с нито един човек, който е бил принуден да го направи и който всъщност харесва френския език? Savez-vous que je n'ai pas parlé à une seule personne qui a été forcée de faire cela et qui aime réellement le français ? 私が実際にフランス語を好きな人に話しかけられなかったことを知っていますか? They all hate it. They remember very little aside from the basic "Hi, my name is" and "How are you?" Те помнят много малко, освен основните думи "Здравей, казвам се" и "Как си?". Ils se souviennent très peu de choses à part les basiques "Salut, je m'appelle" et "Comment vas-tu?" "Merhaba, benim adım" ve "Nasılsın?" gibi basit cümleler dışında çok az şey hatırlıyorlar. You know, other than that, they don’t remember. Vous savez, à part ça, ils ne s'en souviennent pas. And French is a beautiful language and I’m not just saying that because I speak it because I have very negative memories of learning French too. I didn’t enjoy my time learning it. Öğrenirken hiç eğlenmedim.

Steve: So you didn’t enjoy the French you learned in school?

Jill: I didn’t.

Steve: No.

Jill: I didn’t.

Steve: It’s a bit artificial isn’t it? Стив: Това е малко изкуствено, нали? Стив: Это немного искусственно, не так ли?

Jill: Yeah, I didn’t enjoy it. I didn’t actually even enjoy my university courses very much, but I do still believe that French is a beautiful language and I do still want to improve and use it. Всъщност дори не ми харесаха много курсовете в университета, но все още вярвам, че френският е красив език и искам да го усъвършенствам и използвам. Je n'ai même pas beaucoup aimé mes cours universitaires, mais je crois toujours que le français est une belle langue et je veux toujours l'améliorer et l'utiliser. But, I think that most people have a negative experience.

Steve: Of course now you have French on the LingQ System, so. Стив: Разбира се, сега имате френски език в системата LingQ, така че.

Jill: Exactly.

Steve: Hey, you can go to town and enjoy it. Стив: Хей, можете да отидете в града и да му се насладите. Steve : Hé, tu peux aller en ville et en profiter.

Jill: That’s right; that’s right. Джил: Точно така, точно така.

Steve: Yeah, I mean, I’ve mentioned this on my blog, I think I want to do this experiment. Steve : Ouais, je veux dire, j'en ai parlé sur mon blog, je pense que je veux faire cette expérience. Take some children, maybe six or seven, and have a program in the schools which is called "Languages" and using a system like LingQ, allow the children to, say, look at a map of the world and on that map will be the languages that are available. Prenez quelques enfants, peut-être six ou sept, et ayez un programme dans les écoles qui s'appelle "Langues" et en utilisant un système comme LingQ, permettez aux enfants, disons, de regarder une carte du monde et sur cette carte sera le langues disponibles. In other words, we have, you know, audio books, like stories to listen to or to read, or we have videos, little short videos, in these languages and use a system line LingQ so that they can save words and keep track of the words that they’re saving. En d'autres termes, nous avons, vous savez, des livres audio, comme des histoires à écouter ou à lire, ou nous avons des vidéos, des petites vidéos courtes, dans ces langues et utilisons une ligne système LingQ pour qu'ils puissent enregistrer des mots et garder une trace de les mots qu'ils sauvent. Met andere woorden, we hebben, je weet wel, audioboeken, zoals verhalen om naar te luisteren of te lezen, of we hebben video's, kleine korte video's, in deze talen en gebruiken een systeemregel LingQ zodat ze woorden kunnen opslaan en bijhouden de woorden die ze bewaren. So, they keep a little score and maybe tie it to "Snakes and Ladders" or some little game; make a game out of it. Така че те водят малка класация и може би я свързват със "Змии и стълби" или с някоя малка игра; правят от нея игра. Por lo tanto, llevan una pequeña puntuación y tal vez la relacionen con "Serpientes y escaleras" o algún pequeño juego; hacer un juego de eso. Alors, ils gardent un petit score et peut-être l'associent-ils à "Snakes and Ladders" ou à un petit jeu ; en faire un jeu. したがって、彼らは少しスコアを維持し、おそらく「ヘビとはしご」またはいくつかの小さなゲームに結び付けます。それからゲームを作る。 Bu yüzden küçük bir skor tutuyorlar ve belki "Yılanlar ve Merdivenler" ya da küçük bir oyuna bağlıyorlar; bundan bir oyun çıkarıyorlar. And so that all that we ask of them to do is that they will, in each year, explore one or two languages. Et pour que tout ce qu'on leur demande, c'est qu'ils explorent chaque année une ou deux langues. Listen to it many, many times and children like listening to the same thing over and over again. Слушайте го много, много пъти и децата обичат да слушат едно и също нещо отново и отново. I mean, children say "read me that story again. " Jill: Oh, and they’ll watch movies a hundred times.

Steve: A hundred times, so they’re ideal. Стив: Сто пъти, така че са идеални. Steve: Yüz kere, yani idealler. And, of course, if they will listen to the story over and over again and gradually learn the words and so then one year they might do Swahili and the next year they might do Spanish and the following year they might do sort of Indonesian, it really doesn’t matter, but they are expanding their mind; they are expanding their mind. И, разбира се, ако слушат историята отново и отново и постепенно научават думите, една година могат да учат суахили, следващата година - испански, а по-следващата - индонезийски, това няма значение, но те разширяват съзнанието си, разширяват ума си. I think that with a program like that, when they are say 15 or 16, they will be better language learners and at that time if they decide to learn French, they’ll learn it in two years and so that they don’t need 10 years. Смятам, че с подобна програма, когато станат на 15 или 16 години, те ще изучават езика по-добре и ако решат да учат френски, ще го научат за две години, така че няма да им трябват 10 години. Je pense qu'avec un programme comme ça, quand ils auront, disons, 15 ou 16 ans, ils apprendront mieux la langue et à ce moment-là s'ils décident d'apprendre le français, ils l'apprendront en deux ans et pour qu'ils n'aient pas besoin 10 années.

Jill: They’ll have learned some of the techniques. Джил: Те ще са научили някои от техниките.

Steve: They will have learned some of the techniques; their brain will be more flexible. Their brain will not resist the fact that different languages have different sounds, have different structures and so forth. Мозъкът им няма да устои на факта, че различните езици имат различни звуци, различни структури и т.н. Beyinleri, farklı dillerin farklı seslere, farklı yapılara ve benzerlerine sahip olduğu gerçeğine direnmeyecektir. I would like to do that as an experiment. Bunu bir deney olarak yapmak istiyorum. The new approach so that we don’t teach French, one language, like arbitrarily decide Новият подход, така че да не преподаваме френски, един език, като произволно решение La nouvelle approche pour qu'on n'enseigne pas le français, une langue, comme décider arbitrairement Yeni yaklaşımla, Fransızca gibi tek bir dili keyfi olarak öğretmeyeceğiz.

Jill: …you have no choice and this is how it’s going to be taught. Джил: нямате избор и това е начинът, по който ще се преподава. Jill : tu n'as pas le choix et c'est comme ça que ça va être enseigné. ジル:…あなたには選択の余地がなく、これが教え方です。

Steve: Exactly. Of the thousands of languages in the world, we decide which language you are going to learn. От хилядите езици в света ние решаваме кой език ще научите. Whereas it should be, there are all kinds of languages out there, which one do you want to explore? Би трябвало да е така - има много езици, кой искате да изучавате? And next year you can explore another one. All we ask is that when you do decide to explore one, stay with it. Единственото, което искаме от вас, е, когато решите да се запознаете с някоя от тях, да не я изоставяте. So, you have to listen over and over and do these other things, for which I think LingQ is very suitable.

Jill: Yes.

Steve: So, anyway, that will be our next project. Стив: Така или иначе, това ще бъде следващият ни проект. Anyway, so once again, the transcript for this podcast will be available at… and I should say it will be the lingQ.com because very soon we’ll be moving to the lingQ.com but also at thelinguist.com. Както и да е, още веднъж, стенограмата на този подкаст ще бъде достъпна на адрес lingQ.com, защото съвсем скоро ще се преместим на lingQ.com, но също и на thelinguist.com. You can also hear it at EnglishLingQ.com and we hope that you find the discussion interesting and with the transcript you can read and listen and, hopefully, improve your English at the same time. Thank you very much, Jill.

Jill: Thank you.