Stephen Krashen and Steve Kauffman conversation Stephen Krashen und Steve Kauffman im Gespräch Συνομιλία του Stephen Krashen και του Steve Kauffman Stephen Krashen and Steve Kauffman conversation Conversación de Stephen Krashen y Steve Kauffman Conversation entre Stephen Krashen et Steve Kauffman Percakapan Stephen Krashen dan Steve Kauffman Conversazione tra Stephen Krashen e Steve Kauffman スティーブン・クラッシェンとスティーブ・カウフマン対談 스티븐 크라센과 스티브 코프먼의 대화 Rozmowa Stephena Krashena i Steve'a Kauffmana Conversa de Stephen Krashen e Steve Kauffman Беседа Стивена Крашена и Стива Кауффмана Stephen Krashen ve Steve Kauffman sohbeti Розмова Стівена Крашена та Стіва Кауфмана 斯蒂芬·克拉申和史蒂夫·考夫曼的对话 斯蒂芬克拉申和史蒂夫考夫曼對話

hello stephen krashen good morning Steve Kaufman we are on the tain same timezone and in many ways on the same wavelength absolutely I have to tell you you’ve been a great influence on my language learning it’s a real privilege to be able to talk to you and to share now with other people who are going to Hallo Stephen Krashen, guten Morgen Steve Kaufman, wir befinden uns in der gleichen Zeitzone und in vielerlei Hinsicht auf der gleichen Wellenlänge. Ich muss Ihnen sagen, dass Sie einen großen Einfluss auf mein Sprachenlernen hatten. Es ist ein echtes Privileg, mit Ihnen sprechen zu können und jetzt mit anderen Leuten zu teilen, die es tun werden hola, stephen krashen, buenos días, Steve Kaufman, estamos en la misma zona horaria y, en muchos sentidos, en la misma longitud de onda. Tengo que decirte que has sido una gran influencia en mi aprendizaje de idiomas. Es un verdadero privilegio poder hablar contigo. y compartir ahora con otras personas que van a bonjour stephen krashen bonjour Steve Kaufman nous sommes sur le même fuseau horaire et à bien des égards sur la même longueur d'onde absolument je dois vous dire que vous avez eu une grande influence sur mon apprentissage des langues c'est un vrai privilège de pouvoir vous parler et de partager maintenant avec d'autres personnes qui vont halo stephen krashen selamat pagi Steve Kaufman kita berada di zona waktu yang sama dan dalam banyak hal berada di gelombang yang sama, tentu saja saya harus memberi tahu Anda bahwa Anda telah memberi pengaruh besar dalam pembelajaran bahasa saya, merupakan suatu kehormatan untuk dapat berbicara dengan Anda dan untuk berbagi sekarang dengan orang lain yang akan こんにちはスティーブンクラッシェおはようスティーブカウフマン私たちは同じ時間帯で、同じ波長の上で多くの点で絶対に私はあなたが私の言語学習に大きな影響を与えてきたことを言わなければそして今やろうとしている他の人々と共有するために witam stephen krashen dzień dobry Steve Kaufman jesteśmy w tej samej strefie czasowej i pod wieloma względami na tych samych falach absolutnie muszę ci powiedzieć, że miałeś wielki wpływ na moją naukę języka, to prawdziwy przywilej móc z tobą porozmawiać i podzielić się teraz z innymi ludźmi, którzy mają zamiar olá stephen krashen bom dia Steve Kaufman estamos no mesmo fuso horário e de muitas maneiras no mesmo comprimento de onda tenho de lhe dizer que tem sido uma grande influência na minha aprendizagem de línguas é um verdadeiro privilégio poder falar consigo e compartilhar agora com outras pessoas que vão follow this interview some of your thoughts on language learning oh gosh oh shucks I have to return the compliment I’ve read your book I’ve looked at I must I am now your student officially Oh on your website I’ve been doing Mandarin and Spanish and I greatly admire what you’ve accomplished thank you very much folgen Sie diesem Interview einige Ihrer Gedanken zum Sprachenlernen oh gott oh Scheiße Ich muss das Kompliment zurückgeben Ich habe Ihr Buch gelesen Ich habe es mir angesehen Ich muss Ich bin jetzt offiziell Ihr Schüler Oh auf Ihrer Website Ich habe Mandarin gelernt und Spanisch und ich bewundere sehr, was Sie erreicht haben, vielen Dank siga esta entrevista algunos de sus pensamientos sobre el aprendizaje de idiomas oh dios oh caramba Tengo que devolverle el cumplido He leído su libro He mirado Debo Ahora soy su estudiante oficialmente Oh en su sitio web He estado haciendo mandarín y español y admiro mucho lo que has logrado muchas gracias ikuti wawancara ini beberapa pemikiran Anda tentang pembelajaran bahasa oh astaga oh kampret saya harus membalas pujian Anda Saya telah membaca buku Anda Saya telah melihat saya harus Saya sekarang menjadi murid Anda secara resmi Oh di situs web Anda Saya telah belajar bahasa Mandarin dan Spanyol dan saya sangat mengagumi apa yang telah Anda capai, terima kasih banyak no the there’s a certain amount of controversy still like for a believer in input like me that the battle is over but there is still a lot of controversy there are people who say input only won’t do it you need grammar how much grammar do you need how much output do you need can you sort of and I’m sure Nein, es gibt noch eine gewisse Menge an Kontroversen für einen Gläubigen wie mich, dass der Kampf vorbei ist, aber es gibt immer noch viele Kontroversen. Es gibt Leute, die sagen, dass nur Input keine Grammatik braucht Wie viel Output brauchst du? Kannst du sortieren und ich bin mir sicher no, todavía hay una cierta cantidad de controversia, como para un creyente en la entrada como yo, que la batalla ha terminado, pero todavía hay mucha controversia, hay personas que dicen que la entrada solo no lo hará, necesitas gramática, ¿cuánta gramática tienes? ¿Necesitas cuánta salida necesitas? ¿Puedes y estoy seguro you’ve been at the sort of the eye of the storm and so far so far as all as this controversy is concerned where do you see your 5 theses today to what extent has it with withstood the test of time withstood the criticism and so forth well I’ll begin by quoting Paul Simon still crazy after all these years Sie waren so etwas wie das Auge des Sturms und was diese Kontroverse angeht, wo sehen Sie heute Ihre 5 Thesen, inwieweit sie den Test der Zeit überstanden haben, der Kritik standgehalten haben und so weiter Nun, ich beginne damit, Paul Simon zu zitieren, der nach all den Jahren immer noch verrückt ist has estado en la especie de ojo de la tormenta y en lo que respecta a toda esta controversia, ¿dónde ves tus 5 tesis hoy en día, en qué medida ha resistido la prueba del tiempo, resistido las críticas y así sucesivamente? Bueno, empezaré citando a Paul Simon, que sigue loco después de todos estos años. vous avez été dans le genre de l'œil de la tempête et jusqu'à présent en ce qui concerne cette controverse, où voyez-vous vos 5 thèses aujourd'hui dans quelle mesure a-t-elle résisté à l'épreuve du temps a résisté aux critiques et ainsi de suite ben je vais commencer par citer Paul Simon encore fou après toutes ces années あなたは嵐のようなもので、この論争に関する限り、今日の5つの論文をどこで見ることができますか？よく私はポールサイモンを引用することから始めますこれらすべての年後もまだクレイジー ok I think the hypotheses have held up very very well let me give a little historical perspective when all this started in 1975 when we first stated that there’s something called a language acquisition the first goal was to show that acquisition is real at the time people fully believed in what I call the Okay, ich denke, die Hypothesen haben sich sehr, sehr gut gehalten. Lassen Sie mich einen kleinen historischen Rückblick geben, als das alles 1975 begann, als wir zum ersten Mal feststellten, dass es etwas gibt, das als Spracherwerb bezeichnet wird. Das erste Ziel war zu zeigen, dass der Erwerb zu der Zeit voll real ist glaubte an das, was ich das nenne ok je pense que les hypothèses ont très très bien tenu, laissez-moi donner un peu de perspective historique quand tout cela a commencé en 1975 lorsque nous avons déclaré pour la première fois qu'il y avait quelque chose qui s'appelle une acquisition du langage le premier objectif était de montrer que l'acquisition est réelle à l'époque, les gens pleinement croyait en ce que j'appelle le skill building hypothesis at first you consciously learn something then you practice it over and over again you get feedback and eventually it becomes automatic which I call a delayed gratification hypothesis work hard study do your grammar do your vocabulary and someday you can actually use the language you can understand it you can Fähigkeitsaufbau-Hypothese Zuerst lernt man bewusst etwas, dann übt man es immer und immer wieder, man bekommt Feedback und schließlich wird es automatisch, was ich Hypothese der verzögerten Befriedigung nenne kann man verstehen hypothèse de renforcement des compétences au début, vous apprenez consciemment quelque chose, puis vous le pratiquez encore et encore, vous obtenez des commentaires et finalement cela devient automatique, ce que j'appelle une hypothèse de gratification retardée travailler dur étudier faire votre grammaire faire votre vocabulaire et un jour vous pouvez réellement utiliser la langue que vous peux le comprendre tu peux

speak it well the my claim is that the gratification never comes it doesn’t work and it’s painful and the comprehension the hypothesis says that you can have a good time now you can enjoy yourself you can listen to interesting stories go to movies read good books and the result of that is language ability very different parlez-le bien mon affirmation est que la gratification ne vient jamais, cela ne fonctionne pas et c'est douloureux et la compréhension que l'hypothèse dit que vous pouvez passer un bon moment maintenant vous pouvez vous amuser vous pouvez écouter des histoires intéressantes aller au cinéma lire de bons livres et le résultat de cela est la capacité linguistique très différente so the first task was to show that this was real and I should say that this is not my idea originally other people had it before I did I have simply been responsible for public relations before I by the way do we have a lot of time for this just cause you like I okay I got some nice stories all right good así que la primera tarea fue mostrar que esto era real y debo decir que esta no es mi idea originalmente, otras personas la tenían antes que yo. Simplemente he sido responsable de las relaciones públicas antes. Por cierto, ¿tenemos mucho tiempo para esto solo porque te gusta, estoy bien, tengo algunas historias bonitas, bien, bien donc la première tâche a été de montrer que c'était réel et je dois dire que ce n'est pas mon idée à l'origine, d'autres personnes l'avaient avant moi.J'étais simplement responsable des relations publiques avant d'avoir d'ailleurs beaucoup de temps pour C'est juste parce que tu aimes bien je vais bien j'ai de belles histoires bien 最初の仕事はこれが本物であることを示すことであり、これは私が以前に他の人が持っていた私のアイデアではないことを言っておく必要がありますこれはちょうどあなたが好きな原因です私は大丈夫私は大丈夫いくつかの素敵な物語を得た

good good I hope people knew about it before I did in the field of foreign language teaching james asher TPR knew about it before I did a Leonard Newmark professor from University of San Diego knew about it before I did Harris win it’s a scholar from Kansas knew about it before I did and published about it and I had read Asher’s work bueno bueno espero que la gente lo supiera antes que yo en el campo de la enseñanza de idiomas extranjeros james asher TPR lo supo antes que yo un profesor de Leonard Newmark de la Universidad de San Diego lo supo antes que yo ganara Harris es un erudito de Kansas lo sabía sobre esto antes que yo y publiqué sobre él y había leído el trabajo de Asher bon bien j'espère que les gens le savaient avant moi dans le domaine de l'enseignement des langues étrangères james asher TPR le savait avant de faire un professeur Leonard Newmark de l'Université de San Diego le savait avant que Harris gagne c'est un érudit du Kansas le savait à ce sujet avant je l'ai fait et publié à ce sujet et j'avais lu le travail d'Asher when I was a graduate student and I thought this was just amazing now it turns out this is going to get weirder and weirder I went to my uncle’s my aunt and uncle’s wedding anniversary 50th anniversary Morrison and Newmark and Leonard knew mark was there turns out we have the same and uncle from different cuando era un estudiante de posgrado y pensé que esto era simplemente increíble ahora resulta que esto se va a volver más y más raro Fui a la casa de mi tío El aniversario de bodas de mi tío y mi tío 50 aniversario Morrison y Newmark y Leonard sabían que Mark estaba ahí, resulta que nosotros tengo lo mismo y tio de diferente quand j'étais étudiant diplômé et je pensais que c'était juste incroyable maintenant il s'avère que cela va devenir de plus en plus bizarre Je suis allé chez mon oncle l'anniversaire de mariage de ma tante et de mon oncle 50e anniversaire Morrison et Newmark et Leonard savaient que Mark était là, il s'avère que nous avoir le même et un oncle de différent sides of the family so Leonard knew mark whose work I’ve very greatly been influenced by who I admire we’re on the same wavelength turns out to be more or less in the family here’s another one uh people in other fields have come up with the same hypothesis before I did Frank Smith and Kenneth Goodman have hypothesized that les côtés de la famille donc Leonard connaissait la marque dont le travail a été très influencé par qui j'admire que nous sommes sur la même longueur d'onde se révèle être plus ou moins dans la famille en voici une autre euh des gens dans d'autres domaines ont trouvé la même hypothèse avant moi Frank Smith et Kenneth Goodman ont émis l'hypothèse que 家族の側面なので、レナードは、私が同じ波長を持っていることを尊敬している人に非常に大きな影響を受けているマークを知っていました。フランク・スミスとケネス・グッドマンが行う前の同じ仮説は、 we learn to read by comprehension we learn to read by understanding what’s on the text what’s in the text and things like spelling vocabulary most complex rules of phonics are the result of reading well Ken Goodman is married to a very interesting lady named Yetta Goodman who is a vigorous scholar and aprendemos a leer por comprensión aprendemos a leer entendiendo lo que hay en el texto lo que hay en el texto y cosas como el vocabulario de ortografía las reglas más complejas de la fonética son el resultado de leer bien Ken Goodman está casado con una mujer muy interesante llamada Yetta Goodman que es un erudito vigoroso y nous apprenons à lire par compréhension nous apprenons à lire en comprenant ce qu'il y a dans le texte ce qu'il y a dans le texte et des choses comme l'orthographe du vocabulaire les règles les plus complexes de la phonétique sont le résultat d'une bonne lecture Ken Goodman est marié à une dame très intéressante nommée Yetta Goodman qui est un érudit vigoureux et hero of the field and we have always been good friends and one time I was at their house in in Arizona and I was staying with them we were that close and Ken says tea Etta Yetta tell Steve the story of your family the way you usually related and she did it Kunta Kinte style in Yiddish right which is her family language so héros du terrain et nous avons toujours été de bons amis et une fois j'étais chez eux en Arizona et je restais avec eux, nous étions si proches et Ken dit que le thé Etta Yetta raconte à Steve l'histoire de votre famille comme vous le racontiez habituellement et elle l'a fait à la Kunta Kinte en yiddish, qui est la langue de sa famille.

she started out in the other saying my name is yet a Goodman originally Shapiro my family I’m the granddaughter of blah blah blah we come from this little village shtetl called the dish anchor and I said wait a minute live dish anchor that’s where my father’s family comes from Mary Ganesh in which country in Eastern Europe it elle a commencé dans l'autre en disant que mon nom est encore un Goodman à l'origine Shapiro ma famille je suis la petite-fille de bla bla bla nous venons de ce petit village shtetl appelé l'ancre de plat et j'ai dit attendez une minute l'ancre de plat en direct c'est là que mon père est famille vient de Mary Ganesh dans quel pays d'Europe de l'Est il keeps changing countries okay Poland whatever exactly in that whole area so and her Yiddish was highly comprehensible to me turns out and yet l’addition ker is a tiny little town of 3,000 and my family in Chicago always went to l’addition ger picnics and there’s a little Carrera in the cemetery and all this so yada and I have to be sigue cambiando de país, está bien, Polonia, lo que sea, exactamente en toda esa área, así que su yiddish era muy comprensible para mí y, sin embargo, l'addition ker es un pequeño pueblo de 3000 habitantes y mi familia en Chicago siempre iba a los picnics de l'addition ger y hay un poco de carrera en el cementerio y todo esto tan yada y tengo que ser continue de changer de pays ok Pologne quoi qu'il en soit exactement dans toute cette région, donc et son yiddish était très compréhensible pour moi, et pourtant l'addition ker est une toute petite ville de 3000 et ma famille à Chicago est toujours allée à l'addition ger pique-nique et il y a un peu Carrera dans le cimetière et tout ça alors yada et moi devons être relatives because it’s such a tiny town right and here we are I’m always honored when I’m criticized in the same sentence as Ken and yet a Goodman and it turns out that we’re related sort of related to now yet as yet ish is much better than mine my Yiddish is really fake from German okay so she speaks a more pure parents parce que c'est une si petite ville et nous y sommes, je suis toujours honoré quand je suis critiqué dans la même phrase que Ken et pourtant un Goodman et il s'avère que nous sommes liés en quelque sorte à maintenant est bien meilleur que le mien mon yiddish est vraiment faux de l'allemand d'accord donc elle parle un plus pur form and always scolds me for it but you know so be it so the theory is the idea of comprehensible it is not mine it comes from other people what I did is put it in the context of a larger theoretical framework and I’ve been gathering evidence for it since 1975 in the beginning the idea was to show that this forme et me gronde toujours pour cela mais vous savez qu'il en soit ainsi donc la théorie est l'idée de compréhensible ce n'est pas le mien cela vient d'autres personnes ce que j'ai fait est de le mettre dans le contexte d'un cadre théorique plus large et j'ai rassemblé preuve de cela depuis 1975 au début l'idée était de montrer que ce was real right and then study after study yes it’s real people get better from just comprehensible input then the research started to focus on grammar which is your question what about conscious grammar does that play a role and I had hypothesized that grammar is not bad it’s not evil it’s not teach grammar go to jail it’s just avait vraiment raison, puis étude après étude oui ce sont de vraies personnes qui s'améliorent simplement grâce à une entrée compréhensible, puis la recherche a commencé à se concentrer sur la grammaire qui est votre question mal c'est pas apprendre la grammaire aller en prison c'est juste that it’s very very limited and its primary function is for editing in order to use it as an editor you know you’re about to save the sentence you think about it in your mind and you make little changes based on your conscious knowledge rules but conditions have to be met and these very daunting conditions you have to qu'il est très très limité et que sa fonction principale est d'éditer afin de l'utiliser comme éditeur vous savez que vous êtes sur le point de sauvegarder la phrase que vous y pensez dans votre esprit et vous faites de petits changements en fonction de vos règles de connaissance conscientes mais de conditions doivent être remplies et ces conditions très décourageantes know the rule and we know only fragments of language Cordia jeomsun right you have to be thinking about correctness as you’re using it right and you have to have time to apply the rule and what I’m happy to say is that in the last 15 years there has been a parade of studies in the professional journals attempting Connaissez la règle et nous ne connaissons que des fragments de langage Cordia jeomsun droit, vous devez penser à l'exactitude car vous l'utilisez correctement et vous devez avoir le temps d'appliquer la règle et ce que je suis heureux de dire, c'est que dans le dernier 15 ans, il y a eu un défilé d'études dans les revues professionnelles to show that grammar is important to my mind they all show that the impact of grammar is there but it’s limited I think it can be useful it’s an adjunct but it’s not the whole thing it’s a very peripheral part of any language teaching program the way it is helpful for most of us is when we write because our versions of any language are always a little different than the accepted standard when you consider English my first language your first language there are little aspects of written English that we do each of us has our own idiosyncrasies they’re different from the standard for example my favorite example is it’s it’s one with the apostrophe one without according to my scientific studies and that’s basically asking people to raise their hands my conclusion is that two-thirds of the well-read public has acquired the it’s it’s rule another one third and that includes me have not our standards in written English are very high so you got to get it right and I Nach meinen wissenschaftlichen Studien und das ist im Grunde fragen Menschen, ihre Hände zu heben meine Schlussfolgerung ist, dass zwei Drittel der belesenen Öffentlichkeit hat die es ist ein weiteres Drittel der Regel erworben und das schließt mich nicht haben unsere Standards in geschriebenem Englisch sind sehr hoch also musst du es richtig machen und ich think it’s important that I know the role and I can make these Corrections when I edit it’s limited but it’s helpful here and there so grammars that it also gives you more confident all so keep it out that makeup yeah I’ll tell you how I how I use grammar all right good I find is that overwhelmingly I Je pense qu'il est important que je connaisse le rôle et que je puisse faire ces corrections lorsque je l'édite, c'est limité, mais c'est utile ici et là si les grammaires que cela vous donne également plus de confiance, alors gardez-le en dehors de ce maquillage ouais je vais vous dire comment je comment J'utilise la grammaire très bien, je trouve que je learned the language through input I learned the language subconsciously as you say because the words for example that I consciously learn are a very small part of the tens of thousands of words that I’ve had to learn in rockland check just recently for example so i acquire all this through my input activities but with the grammar i also acquire most of my familiarity with the structure of the language through input however and I believe that the brain gets used to it through this massive input like again on link I have statistics showing that I’ve I’ve read 150,000 words of check so I’ve had and I’ve listened to it all so I’ve had massive input however some things I just don’t notice I just don’t notice you know an example in Russian you know one of something is I think it’s the degenerative singular something two three four is another word and five and more is another word you may not notice that and so I keep my little grammar book by the toilet and when I’m sitting there I can sometimes I’ll flip through the grammar book and I always find something that makes me aware of something that I haven’t noticed before so so to me the grammar much like the output activities it makes you aware of your gaps and improves your ability to notice and helps the brain notice as the quand je suis assis là, je peux parfois je feuillette le livre de grammaire et je trouve toujours quelque chose qui me fait prendre conscience de quelque chose que je n'ai pas remarqué auparavant, donc pour moi, la grammaire ressemble beaucoup aux activités de sortie, elle vous fait prendre conscience de vos lacunes et améliore votre capacité à remarquer et aide le cerveau à remarquer comme le brain is going through this you know the main activity which is the listening and reading so how do you deal is is that an appropriate use of grammar does that in any way I don’t think it contradicts the input hypothesis but it suggests that grammar in that way helps you notice things okay first of all I think the stuff that you say you haven’t noticed it’s probably very late acquired mmm-hmm things like in French you know that shows KJ please that little little ending on the past participle late acquired probably leaving the language to in many cases does make a lot of native speakers don’t do it also it’s not are aspects like that and あなたが気付いていないと言うもの それはおそらく非常に遅れて獲得したものです mmm-hmm フランス語で KJ please を示すようなもの 遅れて獲得した過去分詞の小さな小さな終わり おそらく多くの場合、言語を離れる 多くの場合ネイティブスピーカーはそれをしませんし、そうではありません。 when you see it in a grammar book and it’s simple because you’ve acquired most of the language you can probably monitor thoroughly well I find that when I speak German or when I speak French languages I know the best I monitor but not very much just a few things here and there so I can sound a little more educated my 文法の本でそれを見たとき、それは簡単です ほとんどの言語を習得しているので、おそらく完全によく監視することができます ドイツ語を話すとき、またはフランス語を話すとき、私が監視している言語を最もよく知っていることがわかりますが、それだけではありませんあちこちでいくつかのことができるので、もう少し教育を受けたように聞こえます favorite trick you know and play nosotros is just nobody else should know what you should do if you really want to impress people as you get the subjunctive wrong and then do self correct and they think ah yes he’s really really so there are tricks like that so I think yes that oops and some people can do あなたが知っていてノソトロスをプレイするお気に入りのトリックは、他の誰もあなたが何をすべきかを知っているべきではありません.もしあなたが本当に人々に感銘を与えたいのなら、あなたが仮定法を間違えて自己修正を行い、彼らはああ、彼は本当に本当にそうだと思うので、そのようなトリックがあります.はい、おっと、一部の人はできると思います but wait a minute look who you are I accuse you Steve Kaufman of being a member of a lunatic fringe and I am too I am also in this group we are fascinated by language fascinated by grammar books fascinated by the rules we are really far out there like point 0:01 of the human race I do what you do I think my idea of a good time is あなたが誰なのかちょっと待ってください。スティーブ・カウフマンを狂人のフリンジのメンバーだと非難します。私もこのグループにいます。人類のポイント0:01のように私はあなたがすることをします

looking at a grammar book I don’t know just to see how the language is put together we call this language appreciation linguistics so there are two requirements that have to be met number one you have to have acquired near a lot of the language already number two you have to be as you and I are very interested in the structure of 文法の本を見て、言語がどのようにまとめられているかを知りたいだけではありません。この言語評価言語学と呼んでいます。あなたはあなたと同じである必要があり、私はの構造に非常に興味があります language per se so with those constraints in mind nothing wrong with it I just confess to you I do to it to but compare that with a beginning language student who hasn’t acquired even one percent of the language and being forced to monitor the whole thing now some language teachers like us went into the profession people like us because they love rules and they teach them over and over again it gets more and more obvious to them every time they do it that that’s the problem the overwhelming you know hint of grammar are beginning students and I think that grammar as linguistics is fine I think there’s a general education value to it if I were I think high school secondary school language arts and secondary school advanced foreign language should cover some linguistics small part of it Chomsky’s incredible ideas of language universals bidding in a to universal and the idea of language change in dialects and how is language acquired but it’s valeur si j'étais je pense que le lycée les arts du langage au lycée et la langue étrangère avancée au lycée devraient couvrir une petite partie de la linguistique les idées incroyables de Chomsky sur les universaux de la langue enchérissant dans un à l'universel et l'idée du changement de langue dans les dialectes et comment est langue acquise mais c'est not the main thing it’s peripheral okay well again on the subject of questions another aspect of your hypotheses is the idea that we should always be dealing with first of all compelling and interesting content I fully agree and and that’s where the enjoyment comes in if it’s interesting and compelling pas l'essentiel c'est périphérique bon ben encore sur le sujet des questions un autre aspect de tes hypothèses c'est l'idée qu'il faut toujours avoir affaire avant tout à du contenu convaincant et intéressant je suis tout à fait d'accord et et c'est là qu'intervient le plaisir si c'est intéressant et convaincant content I’m turned on my brain is turned on emotionally I’m committed to the language I want to understand the content that’s all great however what almost contradicts that is this this n plus-1 a sheltered reading guided readers graded readers I can’t deal with that I find that I got two or three months of slogging through that kind of simple stuff to get myself to a perch where I now attack the real stuff with 40% unknown words my do I have link to help because I can look up the words as I go and I can save them but I have to get myself into that meaningful authentic you know content with resonance as soon as I can or my interest declines so how does that you Einfaches Zeug, um mich zu einer Stange zu bringen, wo ich jetzt das echte Zeug mit 40% unbekannten Wörtern angreife. Ich habe einen Link, um zu helfen, weil ich die Wörter nachschlagen kann, während ich gehe, und ich kann sie speichern, aber ich muss mich darauf einlassen bedeutungsvoll authentisch weißt du zufrieden mit Resonanz sobald ich kann oder mein Interesse sinkt also wie geht das dir

know conform to the idea of n plus-1 always that next level of difficulty i think paul nation talks about 95 percent 95 percent yeah and known words well if it were 95 percent known words i’d be years acquiring the vocabulary that i need in order to read Tolstoy or or or listen to you know political discussions on the television and so forth you have just described the problem of language teaching with capital P L and T this is the problem let me restate the problem what our research concludes what I think is the best hypothesis is that for language acquisition to happen input has to be comprehensible and very テレビなどであなたは資本PLとTで言語教育の問題を説明したばかりです。これが問題です。私たちの研究が結論を出す問題は言語学習が起こるために最良の仮説だと思いますわかりやすく、非常に

interesting even compelling I have done the easy part me and my colleagues we’ve done the easy part we’ve shown that this is true application is the hard part just the reason you talk about I’m going to restate your question it’s very easy to give people input that’s comprehensible but not very interesting that’s school it’s very easy to find input that is interesting but not comprehensible that’s real world language outside the classroom and of course I must add that many of my colleagues at the university dedicated their entire careers to giving us input that is neither interesting nor comprehensible the problem of language teaching is what you describe I think we are approaching it gradually possibly asymptotically the goal is for beginning classes to be riveting and beginning reading to be riveting and we’re getting closer this is why I like methods such as TP RS Blaine Ray’s idea Wow you go to some of these classes and they’re amazing I went 教えることはあなたが説明していることです私たちは徐々に漸近的にそれに近づいていると思います目標はクラスをリベットすることを開始し、読書をリベットすることを開始することであり、これがTP RSブレインレイのアイデアのような方法が好きな理由ですこれらのクラスのいくつかに行き、彼らは私が行った素晴らしいです to a demo across the street of Pepperdine University which I helped set up given by a guy who I think is one of the best teachers of all time Dickinson Fritz Fri tze free commercial for just gave us a beginning lesson in Arabic which had all of us at the edge of our seats because he made it so much fun and

so interesting with incredible personalization was about the people in the class about them their opinions gradually we’re doing this and the graded readers are getting better we have not solved the problem we’re getting better and better and better I’m trying to find interesting easy input than Mandarin and as you know I’ve I’m creating it myself mostly because I can’t find very much other than that Terry Wallace has written a couple of really interesting books that you’re both with full characters and pinyon in Mandarin which are helping when we add the Blaine and his colleagues and trying to mention as many people’s names as I can here and Karen Rowan and Carol Cobb have produced a lot of good easy books and in Spanish but we need a lot a lot more and they need to get better and better this is the problem we all have so all I can do is restate it and say that I’ve done the easy part meaning my colleagues have the hard part is interesting in comprehensible well you know I must say that that I find that in my own language learning because I don’t have the time to go to school and I’ve heard all about TRS but I’ve never been in a TP RS classroom I study on my own so if I look at my real materials with with Czech and Russian where there’s an abundance of phenomenal material on the internet history politics things that interest me that with link I’m able to pull these in relatively early and fight my way through 40% unknown words it doesn’t matter because I have the audio I’m saving the words the words are highlighted in yellow when I come across them again because I forget that I’ve ever looked them up and so that for me as a perhaps maybe not a typical language learner that works I’m not sure it works as well for the average person who doesn’t have the confidence in their own language learning ability that I do and so that’s again well so that’s a bit of a problem that we’re trying to deal with おそらく彼らが働いている典型的な言語学習者ではないかもしれないので、私が自分の言語学習能力に自信を持っていない平均的な人にもうまくいくかどうかわからないようにだからそれはまたうまくいくので、それは私たちが対処しようとしているちょっとした問題です já os procurei e, para mim, talvez não seja um aluno típico de idiomas que funciona, não tenho certeza de que funcione tão bem para a pessoa comum que não tem a confiança em sua própria capacidade de aprendizado de idiomas que eu tenho e então, novamente, bem, esse é um problema com o qual estamos tentando lidar I think a lot of our members have created wonderful sort of diary of taking my kids to zoo and stuff which if you’re learning Portuguese and you you know you follow some lady in Belo Horizonte and Brazil and her life that’s interesting and and it’s made easy so between you know going straight to the literature there are these sort of 私たちのメンバーの多くは私の子供たちを動物園に連れて行く素晴らしい日記を作ったと思います。ポルトガル語を学んでいて、あなたがベロオリゾンテとブラジルの女性と興味深い人生をフォローしているなら簡単なので、あなたが文学に直行することを知っている間に、これらの種類があります intermediate level high beginner level things that our members are spontaneously creating and where we have the audio and we have the text and sometimes we have notes so that is providing a bit of a step you know in that direction yeah yeah I think your website is a real step forward in providing this I also think that people

vary in their tolerance for noise right some people require my colleague Steve Sternfeld calls these battered language students some people require completely transparent input and that is where they have at least the illusion that they’re understanding everything and the tipi our classes try to do that which i think 私の同僚であるスティーブ・スターンフェルドは、完全に透明な入力を必要とするこれらの虐待された言語の学生と呼んでいます。私は思う is okay but it has its limits you can’t be transparent forever I’m kind of between that level and you I’m now in Spanish is pretty well down on my list of competencies in language I’m kind of low intermediate I can have a easy conversation on everyday topics but nothing complicated I’m now reading star 大丈夫ですが、そのレベルには永遠に透明になれない限界があります。私はそのレベルとあなたの間にいます毎日のトピックについて簡単に会話できますが、複雑なことはありません trek in Spanish right because I love Star Trek okay and I can now say things like you know Klingon man of war has just D materialize out side the starboard bow in several languages which might help you never know uh but I’m I understand about 60-70 sometimes eighty percent if it were less than that I couldn’t do it okay I don’t have the degree but the trick is its compelling for me I love the stories well that’s what I find if it’s compelling I’ll fight my way through it but I recognize as you say I call it sort of incertitude like I’m quite happy to deal with things that are fuzzy I don’t have to know exactly what this means you know I have a I have a completely mistaken understanding of what’s in this sense it doesn’t matter to me you know and that’s why for example I always resent in language class you know these comprehension tests nevermind the comprehension I got my half-baked you know understanding of what was there まさにこれがあなたが知っていることを意味します私はあなたが知っている私には関係ないという意味で完全に誤った理解を持っているので、例えば私はいつもあなたがこれらの理解テストが私が得た理解を決して忘れないことを知っている言語クラスにresしている理由です私の中途半端なあなたはそこに何があったのか理解している I’ll revisit this everyone said I’ll understand it better not a problem but I agree with you that maybe a lot of people maybe most people are troubled with that they want to nail things down and I just find in language learning you can’t nail things down until eventually I hope I hope people like that これを再検討します。誰もが問題ではなく、よりよく理解できると言っていましたが、おそらく多くの人が問題を解決したいと思っていることに同意します。言語学習でできることがわかりました。最終的に物事を特定することを願っています eventually get over it there’s a great quote from John Holt in one of his classes I think he was teaching fifth grade a little girl came in will stew and she was reading Moby Dick and he said isn’t it a little hard for you she said no I just skipped the parts I don’t understand which we’re willing to do 最終的にはそれを乗り越える ジョン・ホルトのクラスの1つで、ジョン・ホルトからの素晴らしい引用があります.5年生を教えていたと思います.小さな女の子がシチューを持ってきて、彼女はMoby Dickを読んでいました.いいえ、理解していない部分をスキップしただけです。 w końcu pogoń się z tym jest świetny cytat Johna Holta z jednej z jego lekcji Myślę, że uczył w piątej klasie mała dziewczynka weszła do gulaszu i czytała Moby Dicka, a on powiedział, czy nie jest to dla ciebie trochę trudne, powiedziała nie, po prostu pominąłem części, których nie rozumiem, a które chcemy zrobić yeah which is great you know the long descriptions so part of the strategies people need to get is that you don’t have to know every word you can skip etc and people are going to very I hope with more experience in language this requirement of transparency gradually disappears right well which reminds me ええ、それは素晴らしいことです。長い説明を知っているので、人々が取得する必要がある戦略の一部は、スキップできるすべての単語を知る必要がないことです。人々は非常に進んでいます。言語の経験が増えることで、この透明性の要件が高まることを願っています。そういえば徐々に消えていくなぁ it’s just like the version here but one of the things that has one of the things that has interested me and in the development of link is whether this would have application for literacy learning because every other reading that I have done suggests that a vast majority of people who are incarcerated Es ist genau wie die Version hier, aber eines der Dinge, die mich interessiert haben und bei der Entwicklung von Link ist, ob dies eine Anwendung für das Lesen von Lese- und Schreibfähigkeiten hätte, weil jede andere Lektüre, die ich gemacht habe, eine große Mehrheit von Menschen, die inhaftiert sind それはここのバージョンと同じですが、私が興味を持ち、リンクの開発に興味を持っていることの1つは、これがリテラシー学習に適用されるかどうかです。収監された人々 to jest jak wersja tutaj, ale jedną z rzeczy, która mnie zainteresowała i w rozwoju linku, jest to, czy będzie to miało zastosowanie do nauki czytania i pisania, ponieważ każde inne czytanie, które zrobiłem, sugeruje, że zdecydowana większość ludzie, którzy są uwięzieni who are not call it successful in life you know whether economically or socially low self-esteem the whole works are people who read poorly and so obviously there’s a percentage of people can’t decipher the letters but there’s a much larger section of people who simply read poorly and I think where you Wer es nicht erfolgreich im Leben nennt, weiß, ob ökonomisch oder sozial geringes Selbstwertgefühl die ganzen Werke sind Menschen, die schlecht lesen und so offensichtlich gibt es einen Prozentsatz von Menschen kann die Briefe nicht entziffern, aber es gibt eine viel größere Gruppe von Menschen, die einfach lesen Sie schlecht und ich denke, wo Sie 人生で成功したとは呼ばない人は、経済的または社会的に自尊心が低いかどうかを知っています.作品全体は、読み方が下手な人であり、明らかに文字を解読できない人の割合がありますが、単純に下手に読んで、あなたがどこにいると思いますか którzy nie nazywają tego sukcesem w życiu wiecie, czy ekonomicznie czy społecznie niska samoocena całe prace to ludzie słabo czytający, więc oczywiście jest pewien procent ludzi nie potrafiących rozszyfrować liter, ale jest znacznie większa część ludzi, którzy po prostu czytasz słabo i myślę, gdzie ty provide people with audio where you provide them with a system for accumulating words and tracking statistically that in fact the vocabulary is increasing as we do at Linc wouldn’t this have application for people who are not sufficiently literate in their own language to be successful in the terms that we normally consider 単語を蓄積し、統計的に追跡するためのシステムを提供する場合、人々に音声を提供します。実際、Linc で行っているように語彙は増加しています。私たちが通常考える用語 people successful now we’re talking about people who are not good enough to be independent readers like the idea people who are in the lower 50% aisle and there’s a lot of these probably the lower 10% I’ll notice at least the literacy advocates talk about you know 20 or 30 or 40 percent of people who are 成功している人々は今、私たちが話しているのは、独立した読者になるのに十分ではない人々について話している.50%の通路にいる人々であり、これらの多くはおそらく10%の下位にある.少なくとも識字率の支持者は気付くだろう.あなたについて話すことは、20、30、または 40% の人が知っている quote functionally illiterate who have trouble reading manuals at work who have trouble you know communicating effectively reading more you know beyond the grade 7 level and so forth and so on well if you’re up to the grade 3 or 4 level you’re pretty good Archie comics and a lot of others are at the second 職場でマニュアルを読むのに苦労している機能的に文盲の人 効果的にコミュニケーションするのに苦労している人 7年生レベルを超えてもっと知っていることを知っているなどアーチーの漫画や他の多くの漫画が 2 番目にあります cytuj analfabetów funkcjonalnych, którzy mają problemy z czytaniem podręczników w pracy, którzy mają problemy, wiesz, komunikujesz się efektywnie, czytasz więcej, wiesz, poza poziomem 7 itd. i tak dalej, jeśli jesteś na poziomie 3 lub 4, jesteś całkiem dobry Komiksy Archiego i wiele innych są na drugim miejscu grade level goosebumps starts at the 3rd grade level some easy-easy novels Judy Blume all this stuff which is great reading starts about the fifth sixth grade level in fact adolescent and young people’s literature today is better than adult literature and we have comic books and magazines bestsellers are at the seventh 学年レベル 鳥肌が立つのは 3 年生レベルから始まる いくつかの簡単で簡単な小説 ジュディ・ブルーム これらすべては素晴らしい読み物であり、5 年生から 6 年生レベルで始まります 実際、今日の青少年および若者向けの文学は成人向けの文学よりも優れており、コミック本や雑誌がありますベストセラーは7位 grade level okay so much I’m avoiding your question for the Ryan because that’s something else much of the problem people have in prison is a lack of access to interesting books and I have single-handedly decided to solve the problem myself and I’ll tell you about the heroic action that I’ve been taking 学年は大丈夫です。ライアンへの質問は避けます。刑務所で人々が抱えている問題の多くは、興味深い本にアクセスできないことです。私は独力で問題を自分で解決することにしました。私が行ってきた英雄的な行動について教えてください I joined a group called book muqaam that’s how I’m getting booking books in other languages cheaply you put all the books on your shelf that you have that you want to get rid of and you know people like us we don’t want to just give books away to charities we want to give them to people who want those books 私は book muqaam というグループに参加しました。これにより、他の言語の本を安く予約できるようになりました。あなたは、手元にあるすべての本を棚に置き、処分したいと思っています。本を欲しがっている人々に本を贈りたい right so I list my book my book on book much like I have an extra copy of a biography of Gandhi someone from New Jersey wants it requests it I send to them I pay the postage I get a point I can then use the point to request other books so I use this to get books in other languages from other countries ガンジーの伝記の余分なコピーを持っているのと同じように、自分の本を本にリストします。ニュージャージーから誰かがそれを要求したいので、彼らに送ります。郵便料金を支払います。ポイントを取得し、ポイントを使用して要求できます。他の本なので、これを使って他の国から他の言語の本を入手します

book much is one of the only groups that does other countries that’s book müjgan Islam yeah I love okay at the end of the year here’s where I’ve been single-handedly solving the literacy crisis at the end of the year I have extra points I may have 50 points extra at the end of the year you can donate the points to libraries and I always donate my points to prison libraries and school libraries at the end of the year so if every middle class person did this in the world school libraries and prison libraries would be very well stocked okay that that’s that’s my scheme now people in prison a lot of them just need ポイントは図書館に寄付します。私はいつも年末にポイントを刑務所図書館と学校図書館に寄付します。もし世界中の中流階級の人がこれをしたら、学校図書館と刑務所図書館には十分な在庫があるでしょう。それが今の私の計画です。刑務所にいる人々の多くは必要なだけです a lot of interesting stuff to read but the basic lower lower lower levels nearly every method works some work faster than others everybody who goes to school in North America reaches that basic second third fourth grade level the way to get beyond that this theory voluntary massive reading this is in first 読むべき興味深いものはたくさんありますが、基本的な下位下位下位レベルはほとんどすべての方法が他の方法よりも速く機能します 北米の学校に通うすべての人がその基本的な第 2 学年、第 4 学年レベルに到達します この理論を超える方法 自発的な大量の読書これは最初に

language in second language where you don’t have a chance to hear it the link webs like might be very good I don’t know they would be good study to do okay yeah no I that’s one thing I’d be quite interested I’ve approached various organizations and of course they all hold up their nose oh you’re for profit あなたがそれを聞く機会がない第二言語の言語. ウェブのようなリンクはとても良いかもしれません. それらが良い勉強になるかどうかはわかりません.さまざまな組織にアプローチしましたが、もちろん彼らは皆鼻をかむ ああ、あなたは営利目的です you’re this debt and I’ve never had anyone willing to pay any attention to what we’re doing but that’s a oh my gosh that’s outrageous because the profit people are running education in the United States and are very open about it the whole common core standards is nothing but a big economic ripoff for Du bist diese Schuld, und ich hatte noch nie jemanden, der bereit war, auf das, was wir tun, zu achten, aber das ist ein Ungeheuer, das ist ungeheuerlich, weil die Profit-Leute in den Vereinigten Staaten Bildung betreiben und sehr offen darüber sind Gemeinsame Kernstandards sind nichts anderes als eine große wirtschaftliche Abzocke für あなたはこの借金であり、私たちがしていることに喜んで注意を払う人は誰もいませんでしたが、それはとんでもないことです。なぜなら、利益の人々は米国で教育を運営しており、それについて非常にオープンです共通のコア標準は、大きな経済的ぼったくりに他なりません。 the point oh one percent you can quote me on that anyway yes yeah third I would like to follow up because I think what obviously in our society the better we read the better people do economically individually their lives are better the whole society does better it’s it’s just a wrapper goes the other way around the とにかく、1パーセントあなたがそれについて私に引用できるポイントはいはい3番目に私はフォローアップしたいと思います.ラッパーだけが逆になります wealthy classes the people who are middle class have access to books therefore they all read better in their kids no I agree with you I agree with you anyway okay let’s get back to the sort of foreign language acquisition I’ve seen some very motivated people like I attended this American conference for teachers of 裕福な階級の中流階級の人々は本を手に入れることができるので、彼らは皆、子供たちのほうが上手に読めますいいえ私はあなたに同意しますとにかくあなたに同意しますとにかく、外国語習得のようなものに戻りましょう私はこのアメリカの教師のための会議に出席しました foreign languages whatever I met a lady there whose name I can’t remember at the University of San Diego and she’s and a number of the teachers were very modern I must say I was overall overall very very impressed and yet the results of language teaching in our schools if I look at French instruction in Canada to the English speaking school system and I’ve heard it’s the same with regard to Spanish which is the big foreign language in the United States that despite all of these very motivated dedicated many of them very fluent in the language they’re teaching even though they’re not necessarily native speakers yet yet the results are so poor Das Englisch sprechende Schulsystem und ich haben gehört, dass es das Gleiche in Bezug auf Spanisch ist, die die große Fremdsprache in den Vereinigten Staaten ist, die trotz all dieser sehr motivierten gewidmet viele von ihnen sehr fließend in der Sprache, die sie unterrichten, obwohl sie Es sind nicht unbedingt Muttersprachler, aber die Ergebnisse sind so schlecht 英語を話す学校制度と、アメリカで大きな外国語であるスペイン語に関しても同じだと聞いています。必ずしもネイティブ スピーカーではありませんが、結果は非常に貧弱です and there’s been umpteen you know examples of research I mean if you compare like 30 years ago 50 years ago things have been researched to death and I’m not sure that there’s been any progress at all so you know when we’ll go to all of this research directed in better results in terms of language instruction in our school system okay let me begin by restating what you said and give more evidence that you’re right the state of affairs in foreign language is really pathological because we know that the kids who do well say in college classes are the ones who had it in high school already we are called false beginners and they’re the ones who システムは大丈夫です。大学の授業でよく言っている子供たちが高学歴であったことを知っているので、あなたが言ったことを言い直すことから始めましょう。学校はすでに偽の初心者と呼ばれ、彼らは system ok, pozwól, że zacznę od powtórzenia tego, co powiedziałeś i dostarczę więcej dowodów, że masz rację stan rzeczy w języku obcym jest naprawdę patologiczny, ponieważ wiemy, że dzieci, które dobrze sobie radzą na zajęciach w college'u, to te, które miały to na haju już w szkole nazywamy się fałszywie początkujący i to oni dominate the class and go on and dooba the true beginners getting nowhere and really go to intermediate classes like literature it’s filled with native speakers or students who have been to the country for several years who’ve been to Europe or spend some time in Quebec and then take intermediate French クラスを支配し、どこにも行かない真の初心者を続け、実際に文学のような中級クラスに行きます。ネイティブスピーカーや、ヨーロッパに行ったりケベックでしばらく過ごした国に数年来た学生でいっぱいですその後、中級フランス語を取ります literature etc so the whole thing is is a charade in my opinion it always has been and again what you suggest which is all I’ll spell out because it makes me look good is that comprehensible input based methods have been shown again and again no exceptions we have won every single method comparison study since the 1960s literatur etc. so ist die ganze sache eine schamidee meiner meinung nach war es immer wieder und wieder was du vorschlägst was ich alles ausformulieren werde weil es mich gut aussehen lässt ist dass nachvollziehbare eingabebasierte methoden immer wieder keine ausnahmen gezeigt haben Seit den 1960er Jahren haben wir jede einzelne Methodenvergleichsstudie gewonnen 文学などのように、すべてが私の意見ではシャレードであり、常にあなたが提案していることは、私が見栄えをよくするので、わかりやすい入力ベースの方法が何度も何度も示されていることです1960年代以来、すべてのメソッド比較研究に勝ちました every time you pick comprehensible input against traditional language teaching we win on tests of communication our kids are much better on tests and grammar there’s either no difference our kids are a little better and our kids are far more likely to continue is true beginning methods it’s true of intermediate methods content-based 伝統的な言語教育に対して包括的な入力を選択するたびに、コミュニケーションのテストで勝ちます。テストや文法で子供たちのほうがはるかに優れています。コンテンツベースの中間メソッドの shelter we know that reading is very powerful one of my favorite studies I was part of we looked at subjunctive among Spanish speakers kids who’ve studied Spanish and the only predictor that counted it wasn’t how much you studied it it wasn’t how long you lived in the country it was reading reading for pleasure so we know over and over again why haven’t people done this a good question I wish I knew this is my failure to master the art of public relations and get this around one source of opposition is natural and acceptable and that is the loyal opposition whenever something new comes out it is the scientists obligation to question it Warum haben die Leute das nicht einmal eine gute Frage getan? Ich wünschte, ich wüsste, dass es mein Versagen ist, die Kunst der Öffentlichkeitsarbeit zu meistern, und das ist eine natürliche und akzeptable Quelle, und das ist die loyale Opposition, wenn etwas Neues herauskommt ist die Verpflichtung der Wissenschaftler, sie zu hinterfragen 繰り返しになりますが、なぜ人々はこれを行わなかったのですか 良い質問 これは広報の技術を習得できていないことであり、反対の1つの原因を回避するのに失敗したことを知っていたらよかったのにそれを疑うのは科学者の義務です and get started and do studies etc my problem is that those who attacked it have not thoroughly understood the theory or even superficially understood the theory so there so when they see a tiny little speck that says the grammar might help here and there they then assume the grammar is wonderful and that’s all we should ever 私の問題は、それを攻撃した人が理論を完全に理解していないか、理論を表面的に理解していないことです。文法は素晴らしいものであり、それは私たちがこれまでにすべきことのすべてです do there’s also frankly an economic force if this is right the textbooks are out of business most of them I and we have to drastically retool another way out is to take the step that you’ve taken that I do and that is focus on independent language acquisition what can people do on their own and websites such as yours Gibt es auch ehrlich gesagt eine wirtschaftliche Kraft, wenn dies richtig ist, sind die Lehrbücher aus dem Geschäft, die meisten von ihnen Ich und wir müssen drastisch einen anderen Ausweg umrüsten, ist der Schritt, den Sie genommen haben, dass ich tue und der Fokus auf unabhängiger Sprache Erwerb was können Leute alleine und Websites wie Ihre tun 率直に言って、これが正しければ経済的な力もありますか教科書のほとんどは廃業しています私と私たちは抜本的に改革しなければなりません別の方法はあなたが取った一歩を踏み出すことであり、それは独立した言語に焦点を当てることです人々が自分自身やあなたのようなウェブサイトでできることの獲得 and other people who work with independent students this is a wonderful way around it I’m all for it my colleagues Jeff McQuillan and Lucy say have a very nice ESL pod back calm and whoa boy they’ve been more good than I have because they just give people people have had a little English in school worldwide comprehensible text 私は大賛成です 私の同僚のジェフ・マッキランとルーシーはとても素敵な ESL ポッドを持っていると言います学校で少し英語を習ったことがある人に、世界中で理解できるテキストを与えるだけです。 comprehensible things now to listen to I hope they’re having that and this is helping a lot of people everywhere and they write I’m sure they have about 50,000 subscribers it’s great it’s terrific it’s what needs to be done a point you made when you read an art when you posted a comment about rosetta stone 今聞いて理解できること 彼らがそれを持っていることを願っています.ロゼッタ ストーンに関するコメントを投稿したときにアートを読む I thought was very important and what you’ve made again here and that is we have to set up opportunities for independent acquisition just like you I don’t have time most people don’t have time I do my listening when I’m on the elliptical machine right Gold’s Gym yeah which is now my my affiliation mount USC Ich dachte, es sei sehr wichtig und was du hier wieder gemacht hast, und das ist, wir müssen Gelegenheiten zum selbstständigen Erwerb aufstellen, genau wie du. Ich habe keine Zeit, die meisten Leute haben keine Zeit. Ich höre zu, wenn ich dabei bin der Crosstrainer rechts Gold's Gym ja das ist jetzt meine meine Mitgliedschaft Mount USC 私は非常に重要だと思いました.あなたがここで再び作ったこと.それは私たちがあなたのように独立した買収の機会を設定しなければならないということです.私には時間がありません.ほとんどの人は時間がありません.エリプティカル マシン 右 ゴールド ジム ええ、これが私の所属ですマウント USC when you know when I go for walks it Center in the car and reading when I have time through the day you know when I’m in security lines and airports pilot says put your tray tables down and I’m waiting for elevators in bed at night so we need to service these people provide them with interesting text to listen to 私が散歩に行くときに知っているとき車の中央にいて、私がセキュリティラインと空港にいるときにあなたが知っている一日を通して時間があるときに読んでいます夜なので、これらの人々に耳を傾けるための興味深いテキストを提供する必要があります interesting things to listen to and I think this might change the field more rapidly than anything so keep up the good work all right I will you know Steve and I I have the impression we could go on for a long long time and what I would like to do is is end the sort of official part of the interview and thank you very much for doing this 興味深いことを聞くことができ、これは何よりもこの分野を急速に変える可能性があると思うので、良い仕事を続けてください.以上で、インタビューの公式部分を終了します。お疲れ様でした。

and I’m sure that my viewers of my youtube channel will really really appreciate this and then I could maybe have a few words you after the I shut down the video so it’s a deal thank you Steve okay thank you very very much そして、私のYouTubeチャンネルの視聴者はこれに本当に感謝していると確信しています。それから、ビデオをシャットダウンした後、あなたにいくつかの言葉を言うことができるかもしれません。