×

Usamos cookies para ayudar a mejorar LingQ. Al visitar este sitio, aceptas nuestras politicas de cookie.


image

Big Think, In Ancient Rome, War Was the Norm. Then Peace Broke Out.

In Ancient Rome, War Was the Norm. Then Peace Broke Out.

Rome is an extremely highly militarized society in a way that is, I think, inconceivable to us. The level of military activity is something that — it sort of approaches what we were familiar with in the first and second World Wars, but kind of for long stretches of time. I think one of the things that you should always remember about Rome is that it was a culture in which it wasn't war that broke out; it was peace that broke out. The standard kind of position that Roman society was in was one that was at war. That said, we do have to realize that Rome probably wasn't much different in its militaristic ambitions from other cultures. We tend to think of the Romans as unusually devoted to warfare, conquest, that pretty brutal and bloody conquest. They certainly were devoted to that. But so was everybody in the ancient world and there was no culture in Mediterranean antiquity, Greece, Rome, anywhere — Italy where people were nice pacific sort of society where they'd much rather get on with doing their knitting than going out and thrashing their neighbors.

This was a world in which disputes were fought out. There wasn't much — there was a bit, but not much — diplomacy. It was the rule of warfare. And that in a way affects almost every way in which Roman society saw itself. And if you think of the top, the upper echelons of Roman culture and you say what would a rich young boy in a powerful family — what would be his greatest ambition in life? Well those ambitions I think would include getting rich, getting richer, getting elected to office, a nice villa on the coast, whatever. But the crowning glory for a young Roman as he looked at his future — his dream would have been to celebrate a triumphful procession. And that was something that was granted only to Roman generals who were superbly successful. If you went and you thrashed loads of the enemy — in other words you could come back to Rome. You could process through the streets in a fantastically elaborate chariot. You would have your soldiers behind you come cheering you on and you would have your prisoners and all the loot that you got in front processed through the streets to the admiring crowds. And we think of little kids dreaming of being president or in UK dreaming of being prime minister. Little kids in Rome would have dreamt about military glory, a triumphal procession. It's the alchemy of their ambitions. It is always more complicated than that, though, because there's two things which strike me as quite odd given that intense militarism. And one is that soldiers were not allowed in the city of Rome itself. So if you had come to visit Rome, you would, I think, in many cases have been struck by that it was a demilitarized zone. The only occasion that soldiers were allowed into the city was at the — on the occasion of triumph when they cheered their general on. Otherwise they were kept out. And so you've got a very strong sense of the center of the Roman Empire being almost entirely soldier free. The emperors eventually got a few Pretorian guards to be effectively bodyguards, but you don't get legions; Roman legions don't come into the city.

And as the Roman Empire goes on, as it ceases to be actively doing very much conquest in terms of expanding into new territory but becomes much more a sort of low-level occupying, policing force. Then you find these army barracks being much more family friendly than most army barracks that we're used to. And there have been some very interesting excavations recently. The little fort very near Hadrian's Wall in the north of Britain, a place called Vindolanda where one of the units that was essentially manning Hadrian's Wall like a big wall, defensive wall that ran along the north of Britain. What's been discovered in Vindolanda has shown quite how mixed and rather domestic community it was. So not only do you find loads and loads of little shoes, which show there must have been quite a few children running around this apparently rather blokish army camp, but a whole range of personal letters on wax tablets — on what remains of the wood of waxed tablets have been found — where you could see that their wives up there having perfectly ordinary lives right in the middle of an army camp. So in due course, I think, I don't imagine that this is the case when the Romans are really actively pushing out the boundaries of the empire. But in due course, its militarism becomes quite domesticated in its way. Quite a family sort of enterprise. Even though soldiers technically weren't allowed to marry, it's clear that they effectively did.

In Ancient Rome, War Was the Norm. Then Peace Broke Out. Im alten Rom war der Krieg die Norm. Dann brach der Frieden aus. In Ancient Rome, War Was the Norm. Then Peace Broke Out. En la antigua Roma, la guerra era la norma. Entonces estalló la paz. Dans la Rome antique, la guerre était la norme. Puis la paix a éclaté. Nell'antica Roma la guerra era la norma. Poi scoppiò la pace. 古代ローマでは戦争が当たり前。そして平和が訪れた W starożytnym Rzymie wojna była normą. Potem wybuchł pokój. Na Roma Antiga, a guerra era a norma. Depois, surgiu a paz. В Древнем Риме война была нормой. Затем воцарился мир. Antik Roma'da savaş normaldi. Sonra barış patlak verdi. У Стародавньому Римі війна була нормою. Потім настав мир. 在古罗马,战争是常态。然后和平爆发了。 在古羅馬,戰爭是常態。然後和平爆發了。

Rome is an extremely highly militarized society in a way that is, I think, inconceivable to us. Roma é uma sociedade extremamente militarizada de uma forma que, penso eu, é inconcebível para nós. Рим - крайне милитаризованное общество, которое, как мне кажется, немыслимо для нас. The level of military activity is something that — it sort of approaches what we were familiar with in the first and second World Wars, but kind of for long stretches of time. O nível de actividade militar é algo que se aproxima do que conhecemos na primeira e segunda guerras mundiais, mas durante longos períodos de tempo. Уровень военной активности приближается к тому, с которым мы были знакомы по первой и второй мировым войнам, но как бы на длительных отрезках времени. I think one of the things that you should always remember about Rome is that it was a culture in which it wasn’t war that broke out; it was peace that broke out. Je pense que l'une des choses dont il faut toujours se souvenir à propos de Rome, c'est qu'il s'agissait d'une culture dans laquelle ce n'était pas la guerre qui éclatait, mais la paix. Penso que uma das coisas que devemos ter sempre presente sobre Roma é o facto de ter sido uma cultura em que não era a guerra que deflagrava; era a paz que deflagrava. Я думаю, что одна из вещей, которую всегда следует помнить о Риме, - это то, что это была культура, в которой не было войны, а был мир. The standard kind of position that Roman society was in was one that was at war. La société romaine se trouvait dans une situation de guerre. ローマ社会の標準的な立場は、戦争中の立場でした。 A sociedade romana encontrava-se numa situação normal de guerra. Стандартным положением, в котором находилось римское общество, было положение войны. That said, we do have to realize that Rome probably wasn’t much different in its militaristic ambitions from other cultures. Cela dit, il faut bien se rendre compte que Rome n'était probablement pas très différente des autres cultures en ce qui concerne ses ambitions militaristes. そうは言っても、ローマはおそらく他の文化と軍事的野心においてそれほど変わらなかったことを認識しなければなりません. Dito isto, temos de compreender que Roma não era provavelmente muito diferente de outras culturas no que respeita às suas ambições militaristas. Тем не менее, мы должны понимать, что Рим, вероятно, не сильно отличался в своих милитаристских амбициях от других культур. We tend to think of the Romans as unusually devoted to warfare, conquest, that pretty brutal and bloody conquest. Nous avons tendance à penser que les Romains étaient particulièrement dévoués à la guerre et à la conquête, une conquête plutôt brutale et sanglante. 私たちは、ローマ人が戦争、征服、そのかなり残忍で流血の征服に異常に専念していると考える傾向があります. Temos tendência a pensar nos romanos como invulgarmente dedicados à guerra, à conquista, a essa conquista bastante brutal e sangrenta. Мы склонны думать о римлянах как о людях, необычайно преданных военному делу, завоеваниям, причем довольно жестоким и кровавым завоеваниям. They certainly were devoted to that. Ils s'y sont certainement consacrés. 彼らは確かにそれに専念していました。 Eles dedicavam-se certamente a isso. Они, безусловно, были преданы этому делу. But so was everybody in the ancient world and there was no culture in Mediterranean antiquity, Greece, Rome, anywhere — Italy where people were nice pacific sort of society where they’d much rather get on with doing their knitting than going out and thrashing their neighbors. Mais c'était le cas de tout le monde dans le monde antique et il n'y avait aucune culture dans l'antiquité méditerranéenne, en Grèce, à Rome, partout - en Italie - où les gens formaient une société pacifique et agréable, où ils préféraient s'occuper de leur tricot plutôt que d'aller tabasser leurs voisins. しかし、古代世界のすべての人がそうだったし、地中海の古代、ギリシャ、ローマ、どこにも文化はありませんでした。隣人。 Mas o mesmo acontecia com toda a gente no mundo antigo e não havia nenhuma cultura na antiguidade mediterrânica, na Grécia, em Roma, em lado nenhum, em Itália, em que as pessoas fossem um tipo de sociedade pacífica e simpática, em que preferissem continuar a fazer o seu tricô a sair e bater nos vizinhos. Но так было со всеми в древнем мире, и не было ни одной культуры в средиземноморской античности, в Греции, Риме, где бы то ни было - в Италии, где люди были бы приятным мирным обществом, где они предпочитали бы заниматься своим вязанием, а не выходить на улицу и избивать своих соседей.

This was a world in which disputes were fought out. Il s'agit d'un monde où les conflits sont réglés. そこは争いが絶えない世界だった。 Este era um mundo em que as disputas eram travadas. Это был мир, в котором велись споры. There wasn’t much — there was a bit, but not much — diplomacy. Il n'y a pas eu beaucoup - un peu, mais pas beaucoup - de diplomatie. それほど多くはありませんでした — 少しはありましたが、多くはありませんでした — 外交。 Não houve muita - houve um pouco, mas não muita - diplomacia. Дипломатии было немного - немного, но не много. It was the rule of warfare. It was the rule of warfare. C'était la règle de la guerre. それは戦争のルールでした。 Era a regra da guerra. Это было правилом ведения войны. And that in a way affects almost every way in which Roman society saw itself. Et cela affecte d'une certaine manière presque toutes les façons dont la société romaine se perçoit. E isso, de certa forma, afecta quase todos os aspectos em que a sociedade romana se via a si própria. И это в какой-то мере влияет почти на все представления римского общества о себе. And if you think of the top, the upper echelons of Roman culture and you say what would a rich young boy in a powerful family — what would be his greatest ambition in life? Et si vous pensez au sommet, aux échelons supérieurs de la culture romaine et que vous vous demandez ce que ferait un jeune garçon riche dans une famille puissante - quelle serait sa plus grande ambition dans la vie ? E se pensarmos no topo, nos escalões superiores da cultura romana e perguntarmos o que faria um jovem rico de uma família poderosa - qual seria a sua maior ambição na vida? И если вы подумаете о верхушке римской культуры и скажете, к чему бы стремился богатый юноша из влиятельной семьи - к чему бы он стремился больше всего в жизни? Well those ambitions I think would include getting rich, getting richer, getting elected to office, a nice villa on the coast, whatever. Je pense que ces ambitions sont de devenir riche, de s'enrichir, d'être élu, d'avoir une belle villa sur la côte, etc. Bem, penso que essas ambições incluem ficar rico, ficar mais rico, ser eleito para um cargo público, uma bela casa de campo na costa, o que quer que seja. Ну, я думаю, эти амбиции включают в себя разбогатеть, стать еще богаче, избраться на должность, купить хорошую виллу на побережье, что угодно. But the crowning glory for a young Roman as he looked at his future — his dream would have been to celebrate a triumphful procession. Mas a coroa de glória para um jovem romano que olhava para o seu futuro - o seu sonho teria sido celebrar uma procissão triunfal. Но венцом славы для молодого римлянина, заглядывавшего в свое будущее, была его мечта - отпраздновать триумфальное шествие. And that was something that was granted only to Roman generals who were superbly successful. Et cela n'était accordé qu'aux généraux romains qui réussissaient brillamment. E isso era algo que só era concedido aos generais romanos que eram extremamente bem sucedidos. И это было дано только римским генералам, добившимся выдающихся успехов. If you went and you thrashed loads of the enemy — in other words you could come back to Rome. Si vous y alliez et que vous écrasiez une grande partie de l'ennemi, vous pouviez revenir à Rome. Se fosses e derrotasses muitos inimigos - por outras palavras, poderias regressar a Roma. Если ты пошел и разбил много врагов, то есть возможность вернуться в Рим. You could process through the streets in a fantastically elaborate chariot. Podia-se percorrer as ruas numa carruagem fantasticamente elaborada. По улицам города можно было проехать на фантастически сложной колеснице. You would have your soldiers behind you come cheering you on and you would have your prisoners and all the loot that you got in front processed through the streets to the admiring crowds. Les soldats qui vous suivaient vous encourageaient et vos prisonniers, ainsi que tout le butin que vous aviez récupéré, étaient transportés dans les rues sous les yeux des foules admiratives. Teria os seus soldados atrás de si a aplaudi-lo e teria os seus prisioneiros e todo o saque que conseguiu à frente processado pelas ruas para as multidões admiradas. За вами шли солдаты, подбадривая вас, а по улицам под восхищенные возгласы толпы шли ваши пленные и вся добыча, которую вы получили впереди. And we think of little kids dreaming of being president or in UK dreaming of being prime minister. E pensamos nas crianças que sonham em ser presidente ou no Reino Unido que sonham em ser primeiro-ministro. И мы думаем о маленьких детях, мечтающих стать президентом, или о британцах, мечтающих стать премьер-министром. Little kids in Rome would have dreamt about military glory, a triumphal procession. À Rome, les petits enfants rêvaient de gloire militaire, de procession triomphale. As crianças de Roma sonhavam com a glória militar, com uma procissão triunfal. Маленькие дети в Риме мечтали о воинской славе, о триумфальном шествии. It’s the alchemy of their ambitions. C'est l'alchimie de leurs ambitions. É a alquimia das suas ambições. Это алхимия их амбиций. It is always more complicated than that, though, because there’s two things which strike me as quite odd given that intense militarism. Mais c'est toujours plus compliqué que cela, parce qu'il y a deux choses qui me paraissent assez étranges dans ce militarisme intense. No entanto, é sempre mais complicado do que isso, porque há duas coisas que me parecem bastante estranhas, tendo em conta esse militarismo intenso. Однако все всегда сложнее, потому что есть две вещи, которые кажутся мне довольно странными при таком интенсивном милитаризме. And one is that soldiers were not allowed in the city of Rome itself. E uma delas é o facto de os soldados não serem autorizados a entrar na cidade de Roma. И одна из них заключается в том, что солдаты не допускались в сам город Рим. So if you had come to visit Rome, you would, I think, in many cases have been struck by that it was a demilitarized zone. Por isso, se tivesse vindo visitar Roma, penso que, em muitos casos, teria ficado impressionado com o facto de se tratar de uma zona desmilitarizada. Так что если бы вы приехали в Рим, то, думаю, во многих случаях были бы поражены тем, что это была демилитаризованная зона. The only occasion that soldiers were allowed into the city was at the — on the occasion of triumph when they cheered their general on. A única ocasião em que os soldados eram autorizados a entrar na cidade era no momento do triunfo, quando aplaudiam o seu general. Единственный случай, когда солдатам разрешалось входить в город, - это триумф, когда они приветствовали своего генерала. Otherwise they were kept out. Dans le cas contraire, ils étaient tenus à l'écart. Caso contrário, eram mantidos fora. В противном случае их не пускали. And so you’ve got a very strong sense of the center of the Roman Empire being almost entirely soldier free. On a donc l'impression que le centre de l'Empire romain est presque entièrement libre de soldats. Assim, temos uma sensação muito forte de que o centro do Império Romano estava quase inteiramente livre de soldados. Таким образом, создается впечатление, что центр Римской империи был почти полностью свободен от солдат. The emperors eventually got a few Pretorian guards to be effectively bodyguards, but you don’t get legions; Roman legions don’t come into the city. Les empereurs ont fini par obtenir quelques gardes prétoriens pour qu'ils soient effectivement des gardes du corps, mais il n'y a pas de légions ; les légions romaines n'entrent pas dans la ville. Os imperadores acabaram por arranjar alguns guardas pretorianos para serem efectivamente guarda-costas, mas não há legiões; as legiões romanas não entram na cidade. В конце концов, императоры получили несколько преторианских гвардейцев, которые стали фактически телохранителями, но легионов не получишь; римские легионы в город не входят.

And as the Roman Empire goes on, as it ceases to be actively doing very much conquest in terms of expanding into new territory but becomes much more a sort of low-level occupying, policing force. Au fur et à mesure que l'Empire romain se développe, il cesse d'être actif dans la conquête de nouveaux territoires et devient une sorte de force d'occupation et de maintien de l'ordre de bas niveau. E à medida que o Império Romano avança, deixa de fazer activamente muitas conquistas em termos de expansão para novos territórios e torna-se muito mais uma espécie de força de ocupação e policiamento de baixo nível. И по мере того, как Римская империя развивается, она перестает активно заниматься завоеваниями с точки зрения расширения новых территорий, а превращается в своего рода низкоуровневую оккупационную, полицейскую силу. Then you find these army barracks being much more family friendly than most army barracks that we’re used to. Ces casernes sont beaucoup plus accueillantes pour les familles que la plupart des casernes auxquelles nous sommes habitués. Depois, estas casernas do exército são muito mais familiares do que a maioria das casernas a que estamos habituados. В этих армейских казармах гораздо больше семейного уюта, чем в привычных нам армейских казармах. And there have been some very interesting excavations recently. E, recentemente, foram efectuadas algumas escavações muito interessantes. В последнее время здесь были проведены очень интересные раскопки. The little fort very near Hadrian’s Wall in the north of Britain, a place called Vindolanda where one of the units that was essentially manning Hadrian’s Wall like a big wall, defensive wall that ran along the north of Britain. O pequeno forte muito perto da Muralha de Adriano, no norte da Grã-Bretanha, um lugar chamado Vindolanda, onde uma das unidades que estava essencialmente a guarnecer a Muralha de Adriano, como uma grande muralha, uma muralha defensiva que corria ao longo do norte da Grã-Bretanha. Небольшой форт, расположенный недалеко от Стены Адриана на севере Британии, место под названием Виндоланда, где находился один из отрядов, который, по сути, охранял Стену Адриана, как большую стену, оборонительную стену, проходившую по северу Британии. What’s been discovered in Vindolanda has shown quite how mixed and rather domestic community it was. O que foi descoberto em Vindolanda mostrou como era uma comunidade mista e bastante doméstica. То, что было обнаружено в Виндоланде, показало, насколько смешанной и довольно домашней была эта община. So not only do you find loads and loads of little shoes, which show there must have been quite a few children running around this apparently rather blokish army camp, but a whole range of personal letters on wax tablets — on what remains of the wood of waxed tablets have been found — where you could see that their wives up there having perfectly ordinary lives right in the middle of an army camp. Ainsi, on trouve non seulement des tas de petites chaussures, qui montrent qu'il devait y avoir pas mal d'enfants qui couraient dans ce camp militaire apparemment plutôt blokish, mais aussi toute une série de lettres personnelles sur des tablettes de cire - sur ce qui reste du bois des tablettes de cire ont été trouvées - où l'on peut voir que leurs femmes avaient une vie parfaitement ordinaire au beau milieu d'un camp militaire. Assim, não só se encontram montes de sapatinhos, o que mostra que deve ter havido muitas crianças a correr por este acampamento militar aparentemente bastante "blokish", mas também toda uma série de cartas pessoais em tabuletas de cera - no que resta da madeira das tabuletas de cera que foram encontradas - onde se pode ver que as suas esposas tinham uma vida perfeitamente normal no meio de um acampamento militar. Таким образом, вы не только находите множество маленьких башмачков, которые свидетельствуют о том, что в этом, на первый взгляд, довольно грубом армейском лагере бегало довольно много детей, но и целый ряд личных писем на восковых табличках - на тех остатках дерева, где были найдены восковые таблички - где видно, что их жены вели совершенно обычную жизнь прямо в центре армейского лагеря. So in due course, I think, I don’t imagine that this is the case when the Romans are really actively pushing out the boundaries of the empire. En temps voulu, je pense, je n'imagine pas que ce soit le cas lorsque les Romains repoussent activement les limites de l'empire. Por isso, na devida altura, penso, não imagino que seja esse o caso, quando os romanos estão realmente a alargar activamente as fronteiras do império. Так что в свое время, я думаю, что это не тот случай, когда римляне действительно активно раздвигают границы империи. But in due course, its militarism becomes quite domesticated in its way. Mas, a seu tempo, o seu militarismo torna-se bastante domesticado à sua maneira. Но со временем его милитаризм становится вполне одомашненным. Quite a family sort of enterprise. Uma empresa bastante familiar. Вполне семейное предприятие. Even though soldiers technically weren’t allowed to marry, it’s clear that they effectively did. Même si, techniquement, les soldats n'étaient pas autorisés à se marier, il est clair qu'ils le faisaient. Apesar de, tecnicamente, os soldados não estarem autorizados a casar, é evidente que o faziam efectivamente. Несмотря на то, что технически солдатам не разрешалось жениться, очевидно, что фактически они это делали.