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English in 10 Minutes, Episode 29: Pizza in Naples

Episode 29: Pizza in Naples

Nick: Today Wendy and I are coming to you from Naples, which is the capital city of Campagna in southern Italy. And it's a chaotic but fascinating city. Umm, but today we want to talk about the most famous product and the most famous export of the city of Naples, which is, of course, pizza. And of course pizza's been now exported all over the world, and Wendy, especially in the United States, it's a lot different from what it is here in Naples.

Wendy: It's very different, yeah. Growing up in the U.S., I thought of pizza as fast food and something very unhealthy, something that I would feel guilty about eating after I ate it, even though I did eat it very regularly. Umm, so pepperoni is by far the most popular type of pizza in the U.S., umm, which, well, that's also something different … the word pepperoni actually means something very different in Italian, uhh, and in Italy, as to what … compared to what it means in the U.S. But in the United States a pepperoni pizza is a pizza with cheese and then sausage, or, yeah, a type of salami, a spicy type of salami, on top of it. So it is very greasy and, yeah, full of fat and, yeah, not very healthy. And it's something that people eat a lot. It's usually pretty cheap. I mean, I suppose you can go to a slightly more upscale restaurant, uhh, and pay a little bit more for it, but usually it's very cheap, you often get it as take-away or as delivery where it comes delivered to your house. And, uhh, college students, especially, eat a lot of pizza.

Nick: Yeah, it's the greasiness I think that really gets you, and even the established, umm, chains, like Pizza Hut and Dominoes, etc, that's really what you get is this kind of greasy pizza that you don't feel too good about after you've eaten it.

Wendy: No.

Nick: And I remember when I was younger in Australia, they … uhh, there was a new chain or a new type of restaurant that opened called Gourmet Pizza Kitchen which was taking it the other way, trying to make more upscale pizza, more high-class pizza, and my brother Tim really liked it. Umm, and that's good on the one hand but it's also not really true to the Italian or the Neapolitan way of making pizza either. And so here in Naples, pizza was very much born out of the Italian culinary concept of cucina povera, and this is basically the use of whatever ingredients you can find if you're living in a rural area or if you're living especially in the south of Italy which is poorer than the north. And so it's the use of humble, available, umm, and affordable ingredients, but ingredients that are also local and fresh and really high quality.

Wendy: Right.

Nick: Even despite the humble origins of the ingredients, if it's tomatoes, or even flour, or olive oil or whatever it happens to be. And so when pizza was created, that's really what it was. It was putting together just a handful of ingredients and seeing what you could come up with.

Wendy: Yeah.

Nick: And so in the Neapolitan pizza tradition there are really two pizzas that are kind of the basis of the whole thing. And one is the Marinara, which is just the pizza base, and then it's just the tomato sauce, which has some oregano and garlic and maybe some basil on it, and that's it.

Wendy: Yeah, and it has some olive oil usually, drizzled on the top as well. But that's it - no cheese, no other added, uhh, toppings or anything. It's just a really simple pizza that just brings it back to the basics.

Nick: Right, so it's essentially a pizza with no toppings, because the concept … I mean, they have other pizzas with toppings, but in America and in other western countries pizzas are about toppings and how many toppings you get and it costs a certain amount depending on the number of toppings.

Wendy: Right, and it's also just taken for granted that it's always going to have cheese on it, and ordering a pizza without cheese would be considered really weird in the U.S. and probably in most places outside of Italy.

Nick: And so the Marinara with its, kind of, very humble ingredients, it sounds like it is boring or it could be boring, and maybe if it's made elsewhere, umm, without the freshness and the quality of the ingredients and without the art of pizza making the way it is here in Naples, maybe it would be boring. But yet, here, just these few ingredients, umm, with the pizza base being so soft and fluffy and the sauce being so rich and deep, it's just this explosion of flavour even, uhh, just with a few ingredients.

Wendy: Yeah and I think that's really the secret to Italian cuisine in general and probably cucina povera in particular, is that, yeah, it does use so few ingredients and you have a number of different dishes that are made with just four, five, six ingredients, really just a handful. And the secret to making it so delicious is that it has to be made very fresh and with very high quality ingredients.

Nick: And so the second pizza that's very famous, uhh, in Naples and throughout Italy is the Margherita, and it's basically … virtually the same as the Marinara, except it doesn't have the oregano and the garlic in the sauce, and instead it has some mozzarella cheese on it - not completely covered in the American way but just these pockets of cheese kind of scattered on top of the pizza. And that's still the most popular pizza in Italy.

Wendy: By far, yeah.

Nick: And most pizzerias in Italy and even here in Naples, most of them will serve 15, let's say, 20 different types of pizza but yet, Italians just love to order the Margherita and the simple pizzas rather than the more extravagant ones with different types of toppings on them.

Wendy: Umm-hmm. And in fact we went to, uhh, a pizzeria here that's one of the most famous in Naples, and they only serve two different kinds of pizza, and that is the Pizza Marinara and the Pizza Margherita. They don't do any other toppings.

Nick: Right, and so it's really just Neapolitan pizza at its most basic. And that is a … it's a pizzeria called Da Michele, and it's one of the most famous pizzerias in the whole city, and there's always a line, and it's just massively popular, and it does only two pizzas and that's all it does. It doesn't do anything else that's not pizza, and even within pizza, it just does these two and that's it.

Wendy: Right.

Nick: Umm, and there's an interesting story about the creation of the Margherita as well. It's maybe not true but it's a story that people like and I think it's an important part of the history of pizza here in Naples. And it's that shortly after the unification of Italy in 1870, there was problems … there were problems in Naples as there tend to be, there was disease, I think, in city. And the queen of Italy, and perhaps the king, came to visit Naples, and the queen's name was Margherita. And what she wanted to do was that she wanted to eat cucina povera. She wanted to see what the local people ate and to go to a local, essentially, pizzeria and eat the way that the local people did. And this made her extremely popular among the people because, you know, she was eschewing the gourmet food she could have eaten and instead wanted to eat the cucina povera that everybody else ate. And of the pizzas that she tried, she said the Margherita was her favourite, and it also has the colours of the Italian flag, and so they named the pizza after her, and that's the story of the Margherita.

Wendy: Umm-hmm. And the name of the Pizza Marinara is also worth mentioning as well because it causes some confusion. A lot of people think that Marinara is a seafood pizza because it refers to mare which is sea, the word for sea or ocean in Italian. And actually outside of Italy sometimes you will find pizzerias that call their pizza Pizza Marinara and they'll put seafood on top of it. But the name actually comes from the fact that the fisherman ate this, this was what their wives would prepare for them after they came back from a long day of fishing at sea. Umm, so it is what we talked about before, just the tomato sauce, the garlic, uhh, the oregano and the olive oil, so it's just a very simple, pure pizza.

Nick: And so here in Naples there are many, many, many pizzerias but there are some in particular that are hugely popular with local people, especially in the historic centre of Naples. And there are several of them on the one street, which is the Via dei Tribunali, and it's right in the heart of old Naples. And it's amazing to see people lining outside these pizzerias for their pizza.

Wendy: Yeah, well they don't line up very well. They just kind of make a huge crowd outside the door, but, yeah, you will see dozens of people waiting outside.

Nick: And we saw on the weekend outside Sorbillo, which is one of the most popular ones, even sixty, seventy people, waiting outside. And it's the kind of crowd, that you're kind of walking near it and you see all these people, and you think, ‘Oh, maybe there's an accident, or a fight, or street art, or some kind of event that's drawn people together,' but no, it's just people waiting for their pizza. Wendy: Yeah.

Nick: And it's cool because it shows that the people are fiercely loyal and that they value the quality of their pizza above all else.

Wendy: Yeah.

Nick: So they'll wait for forty minutes or fifty minutes or something like that. And these famous pizzerias, they're very simple inside, kind of spartan in their decoration, and you'll get … your drinks will come in plastic cups and things like that. But they don't care about any of that.

Wendy: No.

Nick: As long as they get the pizza that they think is the best one, that's the most important thing.

Wendy: Yeah the quality of the food is really the most important, even though there might be another pizzeria right across the street where they wouldn't have to wait at all, they're willing to wait an hour if they have to do to get the best quality.

Episode 29: Pizza in Naples Folge 29: Pizza in Neapel Επεισόδιο 29: Πίτσα στη Νάπολη Episode 29: Pizza in Naples Episodio 29: Pizza en Nápoles Épisode 29 : La pizza à Naples Episodio 29: Pizza a Napoli 第29話ナポリでピッツァ 에피소드 29: 나폴리의 피자 Odcinek 29: Pizza w Neapolu Episódio 29: Pizza em Nápoles Эпизод 29: Пицца в Неаполе Avsnitt 29: Pizza i Neapel Bölüm 29: Napoli'de Pizza Епізод 29: Піца в Неаполі 第 29 集那不勒斯的披萨 第 29 集:那不勒斯的披薩

Nick: Today Wendy and I are coming to you from Naples, which is the capital city of Campagna in southern Italy. Nick: Heute kommen Wendy und ich aus Neapel, der Hauptstadt von Campagna in Süditalien, zu Ihnen. Nick: Dzisiaj Wendy i ja przyjeżdżamy do Ciebie z Neapolu, stolicy Kampanii w południowych Włoszech. Nick: Bugün Wendy ve ben size güney İtalya'daki Campagna'nın başkenti olan Napoli'den geliyoruz. Нік: Сьогодні ми з Венді приїжджаємо до вас із Неаполя, столиці Кампанії на півдні Італії. 尼克:今天,温迪和我将从意大利南部坎帕尼亚大区首府那不勒斯为您报道。 And it’s a chaotic but fascinating city. Und es ist eine chaotische, aber faszinierende Stadt. 混沌とした、しかし魅力的な街だ。 I to miasto chaotyczne, ale fascynujące. 这是一座混乱但迷人的城市。 Umm, but today we want to talk about the most famous product and the most famous export of the city of Naples, which is, of course, pizza. Ähm, aber heute wollen wir über das berühmteste Produkt und den berühmtesten Export der Stadt Neapel sprechen, nämlich natürlich Pizza. 嗯,但今天我们要谈的是那不勒斯市最著名的产品和最著名的出口商品,当然是比萨饼。 And of course pizza’s been now exported all over the world, and Wendy, especially in the United States, it’s a lot different from what it is here in Naples. І, звичайно, піцу зараз експортують по всьому світу, і Венді, особливо в Сполучених Штатах, вона сильно відрізняється від того, що є тут, у Неаполі. 当然,披萨现在已经出口到世界各地,而温迪,尤其是在美国,它与那不勒斯的有很大不同。

Wendy: It’s very different, yeah. Growing up in the U.S., I thought of pizza as fast food and something very unhealthy, something that I would feel guilty about eating after I ate it, even though I did eat it very regularly. Al crecer en EE.UU., pensaba en la pizza como comida rápida y algo muy poco saludable, algo de lo que me sentiría culpable después de comerla, aunque la comiera muy a menudo. Enquanto crescia nos EUA, pensava na piza como fast food e algo muito pouco saudável, algo que me fazia sentir culpada por comer depois de a ter comido, apesar de a comer com muita regularidade. Umm, so pepperoni is by far the most popular type of pizza in the U.S., umm, which, well, that’s also something different … the word pepperoni actually means something very different in Italian, uhh, and in Italy, as to what … compared to what it means in the U.S. Umm, also Peperoni ist bei weitem die beliebteste Art von Pizza in den USA, umm, was auch etwas anderes ist ... das Wort Peperoni bedeutet auf Italienisch, ähm, und in Italien tatsächlich etwas ganz anderes, was ... verglichen wird zu dem, was es in den USA bedeutet Umm, więc pepperoni jest zdecydowanie najpopularniejszym rodzajem pizzy w USA, umm, co, cóż, to też jest coś innego… słowo pepperoni właściwie oznacza coś zupełnie innego po włosku, uhh i we Włoszech, w porównaniu z tym, co… w porównaniu co to znaczy w USA Умм, итак, пепперони, безусловно, самый популярный тип пиццы в США, ммм, что, ну, это тоже нечто иное ... слово пепперони на самом деле означает нечто совсем другое в итальянском, ммм, и в Италии, в отношении того, что ... по сравнению с что это значит в США 嗯,所以意大利辣香肠是迄今为止美国最受欢迎的披萨类型,嗯,这也是不同的……意大利辣香肠这个词实际上在意大利语中的含义非常不同,呃,在意大利,至于……相比在美国意味着什么 But in the United States a pepperoni pizza is a pizza with cheese and then sausage, or, yeah, a type of salami, a spicy type of salami, on top of it. Aber in den Vereinigten Staaten ist eine Peperoni-Pizza eine Pizza mit Käse und dann Wurst oder, ja, eine Art Salami, eine würzige Art von Salami darüber. Ale w Stanach Zjednoczonych pizza pepperoni to pizza z serem i kiełbasą, lub, tak, rodzaj salami, pikantny rodzaj salami na wierzchu. Но в Соединенных Штатах пицца пепперони - это пицца с сыром, а затем с колбасой, или, да, разновидность салями, острая разновидность салями, поверх нее. Але в Сполучених Штатах піца пепероні – це піца з сиром, а потім ковбасою, або, так, різновидом салямі, гострим типом салямі, зверху. 但在美国,意大利辣香肠披萨是一种披萨,上面有奶酪,然后是香肠,或者,是的,一种萨拉米香肠,一种辛辣的萨拉米香肠,放在上面。 So it is very greasy and, yeah, full of fat and, yeah, not very healthy. Es ist also sehr fettig und voller Fett und nicht sehr gesund. Więc jest bardzo tłusta i, tak, pełna tłuszczu i, tak, niezbyt zdrowa. Тому він дуже жирний і, так, насичений жиром і, так, не дуже здоровий. And it’s something that people eat a lot. Und es ist etwas, was die Leute viel essen. It’s usually pretty cheap. Es ist normalerweise ziemlich billig. I mean, I suppose you can go to a slightly more upscale restaurant, uhh, and pay a little bit more for it, but usually it’s very cheap, you often get it as take-away or as delivery where it comes delivered to your house. Ich meine, ich nehme an, Sie können in ein etwas gehobeneres Restaurant gehen und ein bisschen mehr dafür bezahlen, aber normalerweise ist es sehr billig, Sie bekommen es oft zum Mitnehmen oder als Lieferung, wenn es zu Ihnen nach Hause geliefert wird . Quer dizer, suponho que se pode ir a um restaurante um pouco mais sofisticado e pagar um pouco mais por ele, mas normalmente é muito barato, muitas vezes é comprado como take-away ou como delivery, onde é entregue em casa. Я имею в виду, я полагаю, вы можете пойти в немного более высококлассный ресторан, ммм, и заплатить за это немного больше, но обычно это очень дешево, вы часто получаете его на вынос или в качестве доставки, когда он приходит к вам домой . 我的意思是,我想你可以去一家稍微高档一点的餐厅,呃,多付一点钱,但通常都很便宜,你经常把它作为外卖或送货上门的方式。 And, uhh, college students, especially, eat a lot of pizza. 而且,呃,尤其是大学生,吃很多披萨。

Nick: Yeah, it’s the greasiness I think that really gets you, and even the established, umm, chains, like Pizza Hut and Dominoes, etc, that’s really what you get is this kind of greasy pizza that you don’t feel too good about after you’ve eaten it. Nick: Ja, es ist die Fettigkeit, von der ich denke, dass sie dich wirklich erwischt, und selbst die etablierten, ähm, Ketten wie Pizza Hut und Dominoes usw., das ist wirklich das, was du bekommst, ist diese Art von fettiger Pizza, die du nicht so gut fühlst ungefähr nachdem du es gegessen hast. Nick: Tak, myślę, że to tłustość, która naprawdę cię dopada, a nawet znane, hmm, sieciówki, takie jak Pizza Hut i Domino, itp., to naprawdę dostajesz ten rodzaj tłustej pizzy, w której nie czujesz się zbyt dobrze o po zjedzeniu. Ник: Да, я думаю, это жирность, которая действительно тебя заводит, и даже такие известные сети, как Pizza Hut, Dominoes и т. примерно после того, как вы его съели. 尼克:是的,我认为真正让你着迷的是油腻感,甚至是那些老牌的连锁店,比如必胜客和多米诺骨牌等,你得到的就是这种油腻的披萨,你感觉不太好大约在你吃完之后。

Wendy: No.

Nick: And I remember when I was younger in Australia, they … uhh, there was a new chain or a new type of restaurant that opened called Gourmet Pizza Kitchen which was taking it the other way, trying to make more upscale pizza, more high-class pizza, and my brother Tim really liked it. Nick: Und ich erinnere mich, als ich in Australien jünger war, haben sie… ähm, es gab eine neue Kette oder eine neue Art von Restaurant namens Gourmet Pizza Kitchen, die in die andere Richtung ging und versuchte, gehobene Pizza höher zu machen Pizza der Klasse, und meinem Bruder Tim hat es sehr gut gefallen. Nick: I pamiętam, kiedy byłem młodszy w Australii, oni… uhh, otworzyła się nowa sieć lub nowy typ restauracji o nazwie Gourmet Pizza Kitchen, która robiła to w drugą stronę, próbując zrobić bardziej ekskluzywną pizzę, wyższą -klasowa pizza, a mój brat Tim bardzo ją polubił. Nick: E lembro-me que quando era mais novo na Austrália, eles ... uhh, havia uma nova cadeia ou um novo tipo de restaurante que abriu, chamado Gourmet Pizza Kitchen, que estava a ir na direção oposta, a tentar fazer uma pizza mais sofisticada, uma pizza de classe alta, e o meu irmão Tim gostou muito. Ник: И я помню, когда я был моложе в Австралии, они ... эээ, была открыта новая сеть или новый тип ресторанов под названием Gourmet Pizza Kitchen, которые пошли другим путем, пытаясь приготовить более высококлассную пиццу, более высокую. классная пицца, и моему брату Тиму она очень понравилась. Нік: І я пам’ятаю, коли я був молодшим в Австралії, вони… е-ех, була нова мережа або новий тип ресторану, який відкрився під назвою Gourmet Pizza Kitchen, який сприймав це іншим шляхом, намагаючись робити більш висококласну піцу, більш високу першокласна піца, і моєму братові Тіму вона дуже сподобалася. 尼克:我记得当我年轻的时候在澳大利亚,他们……呃,有一家新的连锁店或新型餐厅开业,名为“美食披萨厨房”,它采取了相反的方式,试图制作更高档、更高级的披萨一流的披萨,我哥哥蒂姆非常喜欢它。 Umm, and that’s good on the one hand but it’s also not really true to the Italian or the Neapolitan way of making pizza either. Ähm, und das ist einerseits gut, aber es trifft auch nicht wirklich auf die italienische oder neapolitanische Art zu, Pizza zu machen. Умм, и это хорошо, с одной стороны, но это также не совсем соответствует итальянскому или неаполитанскому способу приготовления пиццы. 嗯,一方面这很好,但它也不太符合意大利或那不勒斯制作披萨的方式。 And so here in Naples, pizza was very much born out of the Italian culinary concept of cucina povera, and this is basically the use of whatever ingredients you can find if you’re living in a rural area or if you’re living especially in the south of Italy which is poorer than the north. Und so wurde hier in Neapel Pizza sehr stark aus dem italienischen kulinarischen Konzept der Cucina Povera geboren, und dies ist im Grunde die Verwendung aller Zutaten, die Sie finden können, wenn Sie in einer ländlichen Gegend leben oder wenn Sie besonders in leben der Süden Italiens, der ärmer ist als der Norden. En dus is pizza hier in Napels in hoge mate geboren uit het Italiaanse culinaire concept van cucina povera, en dit is in feite het gebruik van alle ingrediënten die je kunt vinden als je in een landelijk gebied woont of als je vooral in het zuiden van Italië dat armer is dan het noorden. I tak tutaj, w Neapolu, pizza w dużej mierze zrodziła się z włoskiego konceptu kulinarnego cucina povera, a jest to w zasadzie wykorzystanie wszelkich składników, które można znaleźć, jeśli mieszkasz na wsi lub szczególnie w południe Włoch, które jest uboższe niż północ. Итак, здесь, в Неаполе, пицца во многом родилась из итальянской кулинарной концепции cucina povera, и это в основном использование любых ингредиентов, которые вы можете найти, если вы живете в сельской местности или если вы живете особенно в юг Италии беднее севера. Отже, тут, у Неаполі, піца багато в чому народилася з італійської кулінарної концепції cucina povera, і це в основному використання будь-яких інгредієнтів, які ви можете знайти, якщо ви живете в сільській місцевості або якщо ви живете особливо в південь Італії бідніший за північ. 因此,在那不勒斯,披萨很大程度上源于意大利烹饪概念 cucina povera,如果您生活在农村地区,或者如果您生活在农村地区,这基本上就是使用您能找到的任何食材。意大利南部比北部贫穷。 And so it’s the use of humble, available, umm, and affordable ingredients, but ingredients that are also local and fresh and really high quality. A więc jest to użycie skromnych, dostępnych, hmmm i niedrogich składników, ale także lokalnych, świeżych i naprawdę wysokiej jakości. Отже, це використання скромних, доступних, ммм, доступних інгредієнтів, але інгредієнтів, які також є місцевими, свіжими та справді високоякісними. 因此,它使用的是简陋、可用、嗯、价格实惠的原料,但原料也是本地的、新鲜的、真正高品质的。

Wendy: Right. Wendy: Exato.

Nick: Even despite the humble origins of the ingredients, if it’s tomatoes, or even flour, or olive oil or whatever it happens to be. Nick: Nawet pomimo skromnego pochodzenia składników, czy to pomidory, a nawet mąka, oliwa z oliwek czy cokolwiek to jest. 尼克:尽管成分的来源很卑微,如果是西红柿,甚至面粉,橄榄油或其他任何东西。 And so when pizza was created, that’s really what it was. 所以当披萨被创造出来时,它确实就是这样的。 It was putting together just a handful of ingredients and seeing what you could come up with. Es ging nur darum, eine Handvoll Zutaten zusammenzustellen und zu sehen, was man sich einfallen lassen konnte. To było zebranie tylko garstki składników i sprawdzenie, co możesz wymyślić. Он собирал лишь горстку ингредиентов и смотрел, что вы можете придумать. 它只是将一些成分放在一起,然后看看你能想出什么。

Wendy: Yeah.

Nick: And so in the Neapolitan pizza tradition there are really two pizzas that are kind of the basis of the whole thing. Nick: Und so gibt es in der neapolitanischen Pizzatradition wirklich zwei Pizzen, die die Grundlage des Ganzen bilden. Nick: A więc w tradycji pizzy neapolitańskiej są tak naprawdę dwie pizze, które są swego rodzaju podstawą. 尼克:所以在那不勒斯披萨传统中,实际上有两种披萨是整个披萨的基础。 And one is the Marinara, which is just the pizza base, and then it’s just the tomato sauce, which has some oregano and garlic and maybe some basil on it, and that’s it. A jedną z nich jest Marinara, która jest tylko bazą do pizzy, a następnie jest to tylko sos pomidorowy, który ma trochę oregano i czosnku i może trochę bazylii, i to wszystko. І один – маринара, яка є просто основою для піци, а потім це просто томатний соус, який містить орегано, часник і, можливо, базилік, і все. 一种是番茄酱,它只是披萨的底料,然后就是番茄酱,上面有一些牛至和大蒜,也许还有一些罗勒,就是这样。

Wendy: Yeah, and it has some olive oil usually, drizzled on the top as well. Wendy: Tak, i zwykle ma trochę oliwy z oliwek, skropionej na wierzchu. Wendy: Sim, e normalmente também tem um pouco de azeite, regado por cima. Венді: Так, і в ньому зазвичай трохи оливкової олії, яку також збризкують зверху. 温迪:是的,通常还有一些橄榄油,还淋在上面。 But that’s it - no cheese, no other added, uhh, toppings or anything. Ale to wszystko - bez sera, bez innych dodatków, uhh, dodatków ani niczego. It’s just a really simple pizza that just brings it back to the basics.

Nick: Right, so it’s essentially a pizza with no toppings, because the concept … I mean, they have other pizzas with toppings, but in America and in other western countries pizzas are about toppings and how many toppings you get and it costs a certain amount depending on the number of toppings. 尼克:是的,所以它本质上是一个没有配料的披萨,因为这个概念……我的意思是,他们还有其他有配料的披萨,但在美国和其他西方国家,披萨是关于配料的,以及你能得到多少配料,而且它的成本是一定的。用量根据浇头的数量而定。

Wendy: Right, and it’s also just taken for granted that it’s always going to have cheese on it, and ordering a pizza without cheese would be considered really weird in the U.S. Wendy: Racja, jest też po prostu brane za pewnik, że zawsze będzie miał na sobie ser, a zamawianie pizzy bez sera byłoby uważane za naprawdę dziwne w USA Wendy: Exato, e também é um dado adquirido que vai ter sempre queijo, e pedir uma pizza sem queijo seria considerado muito estranho nos EUA. Венди: Верно, и также считается само собой разумеющимся, что на нем всегда будет сыр, а заказ пиццы без сыра будет считаться действительно странным в США. and probably in most places outside of Italy.

Nick: And so the Marinara with its, kind of, very humble ingredients, it sounds like it is boring or it could be boring, and maybe if it’s made elsewhere, umm, without the freshness and the quality of the ingredients and without the art of pizza making the way it is here in Naples, maybe it would be boring. Nick: A więc Marinara ze swoimi, bardzo skromnymi składnikami, brzmi, jakby była nudna lub może być nudna, a może jeśli jest zrobiona gdzie indziej, umm, bez świeżości i jakości składników i bez sztuki pizzy robiącej taką, jaka jest tutaj w Neapolu, może byłoby to nudne. Nick: Marinara, çok mütevazı malzemeleriyle kulağa sıkıcı geliyor ya da sıkıcı olabilir ve belki de başka bir yerde yapılırsa, malzemelerin tazeliği ve kalitesi olmadan ve burada Napoli'de olduğu gibi pizza yapma sanatı olmadan, belki sıkıcı olabilir. 尼克:所以,Marinara 的成分非常简陋,听起来很无聊,或者可能很无聊,也许如果它是在其他地方制作的,嗯,没有新鲜度和成分的质量,也没有艺术在那不勒斯这里制作披萨,也许会很无聊。 But yet, here, just these few ingredients, umm, with the pizza base being so soft and fluffy and the sauce being so rich and deep, it’s just this explosion of flavour even, uhh, just with a few ingredients. Ale tutaj, tylko te kilka składników, umm, baza pizzy jest tak miękka i puszysta, a sos jest tak bogaty i głęboki, to tylko ta eksplozja smaku, nawet, uhh, tylko z kilkoma składnikami. Але все ж тут, лише ці кілька інгредієнтів, ммм, з такою м’якою та пухкою основою для піци, а соус такий насичений і насичений, це просто вибух смаку навіть, е-е, лише з кількома інгредієнтами.

Wendy: Yeah and I think that’s really the secret to Italian cuisine in general and probably cucina povera in particular, is that, yeah, it does use so few ingredients and you have a number of different dishes that are made with just four, five, six ingredients, really just a handful. Wendy: Ja, und ich denke, das ist wirklich das Geheimnis der italienischen Küche im Allgemeinen und wahrscheinlich der Cucina Povera im Besonderen. Ja, es werden so wenige Zutaten verwendet, und Sie haben eine Reihe verschiedener Gerichte, die mit nur vier, fünf, zubereitet werden. sechs Zutaten, wirklich nur eine Handvoll. Wendy: Sim, e penso que esse é realmente o segredo da cozinha italiana em geral e, provavelmente, da cucina povera em particular, é que, sim, utiliza tão poucos ingredientes e há uma série de pratos diferentes que são feitos com apenas quatro, cinco, seis ingredientes, realmente apenas uma mão-cheia. Венді: Так, і я думаю, що насправді секрет італійської кухні загалом і, ймовірно, cucina povera зокрема, полягає в тому, що, так, у ній використовується дуже мало інгредієнтів, і у вас є кілька різних страв, які готуються лише з чотирьох, п’яти, шість інгредієнтів, насправді лише жменька. 温迪:是的,我认为这确实是意大利美食的秘密,尤其是 cucina povera,是的,它确实使用了很少的原料,而且你有很多不同的菜肴,只用四,五,六种成分,实际上只是少数。 And the secret to making it so delicious is that it has to be made very fresh and with very high quality ingredients.

Nick: And so the second pizza that’s very famous, uhh, in Naples and throughout Italy is the Margherita, and it’s basically … virtually the same as the Marinara, except it doesn’t have the oregano and the garlic in the sauce, and instead it has some mozzarella cheese on it - not completely covered in the American way but just these pockets of cheese kind of scattered on top of the pizza. Nick: A segunda piza que é muito famosa em Nápoles e em toda a Itália é a Margherita, e é basicamente ... praticamente a mesma que a Marinara, exceto que não tem orégãos e alho no molho e, em vez disso, tem um pouco de queijo mozzarella - não completamente coberto à maneira americana, mas apenas estas bolsas de queijo espalhadas por cima da piza. Нік: Друга піца, яка дуже відома в Неаполі та в усій Італії, — це «Маргарита», і вона в основному… практично така ж, як і «Марінара», за винятком того, що в ній немає орегано та часнику в соусі, а натомість на ньому трохи сиру моцарелла – не повністю покритого по-американськи, а просто ці кишеньки сиру ніби розкидані на вершині піци. 尼克:所以,在那不勒斯和整个意大利,第二个非常出名的披萨是玛格丽特披萨,它基本上……几乎与玛丽纳拉披萨相同,只是它的酱汁中没有牛至和大蒜,而是它上面有一些马苏里拉奶酪——并没有像美国那样完全覆盖,而是这些奶酪散落在披萨的顶部。 And that’s still the most popular pizza in Italy.

Wendy: By far, yeah.

Nick: And most pizzerias in Italy and even here in Naples, most of them will serve 15, let’s say, 20 different types of pizza but yet, Italians just love to order the Margherita and the simple pizzas rather than the more extravagant ones with different types of toppings on them. 尼克:意大利的大多数披萨店,甚至那不勒斯的披萨店,大多数都会提供 15 种,比如说 20 种不同类型的披萨,但是,意大利人只是喜欢点玛格丽塔和简单的披萨,而不是那些带有不同口味的奢侈披萨。上面的配料类型。

Wendy: Umm-hmm. And in fact we went to, uhh, a pizzeria here that’s one of the most famous in Naples, and they only serve two different kinds of pizza, and that is the Pizza Marinara and the Pizza Margherita. They don’t do any other toppings. Não fazem outras coberturas.

Nick: Right, and so it’s really just Neapolitan pizza at its most basic. 尼克:是的,所以它实际上只是最基本的那不勒斯披萨。 And that is a … it’s a pizzeria called Da Michele, and it’s one of the most famous pizzerias in the whole city, and there’s always a line, and it’s just massively popular, and it does only two pizzas and that’s all it does. 那是……这是一家叫做 Da Michele 的披萨店,它是全城最著名的披萨店之一,总是有人排队,而且它非常受欢迎,而且只做两个披萨,仅此而已。 It doesn’t do anything else that’s not pizza, and even within pizza, it just does these two and that’s it. Nie robi niczego innego, co nie jest pizzą, a nawet w pizzy, po prostu robi te dwie rzeczy i to wszystko.

Wendy: Right.

Nick: Umm, and there’s an interesting story about the creation of the Margherita as well. Nick: Umm, jest też ciekawa historia o stworzeniu Margherity. 尼克:嗯,关于玛格丽塔的诞生还有一个有趣的故事。 It’s maybe not true but it’s a story that people like and I think it’s an important part of the history of pizza here in Naples. Talvez não seja verdade, mas é uma história que as pessoas gostam e penso que é uma parte importante da história da pizza aqui em Nápoles. And it’s that shortly after the unification of Italy in 1870, there was problems … there were problems in Naples as there tend to be, there was disease, I think, in city. I chodzi o to, że wkrótce po zjednoczeniu Włoch w 1870 pojawiły się problemy… były problemy w Neapolu, jak to bywa, w mieście, jak sądzę, była choroba. 1870 年意大利统一后不久,就出现了问题……那不勒斯也出现了问题,我认为,城市里出现了疾病。 And the queen of Italy, and perhaps the king, came to visit Naples, and the queen’s name was Margherita. And what she wanted to do was that she wanted to eat cucina povera. 她想做的就是她想吃cucina povera。 She wanted to see what the local people ate and to go to a local, essentially, pizzeria and eat the way that the local people did. Chciała zobaczyć, co jedzą miejscowi i pójść do lokalnej, w zasadzie pizzerii, i zjeść tak, jak robili to miejscowi. Вона хотіла подивитися, що їдять місцеві жителі, і піти в місцеву, по суті, піцерію і поїсти так, як місцеві люди. 她想看看当地人吃什么,然后去当地的一家比萨饼店,按照当地人的方式吃饭。 And this made her extremely popular among the people because, you know, she was eschewing the gourmet food she could have eaten and instead wanted to eat the cucina povera that everybody else ate. I to sprawiło, że stała się niezwykle popularna wśród ludzi, ponieważ, wiesz, unikała wykwintnego jedzenia, które mogła zjeść, a zamiast tego chciała zjeść cucina povera, którą jedli wszyscy inni. І це зробило її надзвичайно популярною серед людей, оскільки, знаєте, вона уникала вишуканої їжі, яку могла їсти, і натомість хотіла їсти cucina povera, яку їли всі. 这使她在人们中非常受欢迎,因为,你知道,她避开了她本可以吃的美食,而是想吃其他人都吃的 cucina povera。 And of the pizzas that she tried, she said the Margherita was her favourite, and it also has the colours of the Italian flag, and so they named the pizza after her, and that’s the story of the Margherita. 而在她尝试过的披萨中,她说玛格丽特是她的最爱,而且它还有意大利国旗的颜色,所以他们以她的名字命名披萨,这就是玛格丽特的故事。

Wendy: Umm-hmm. And the name of the Pizza Marinara is also worth mentioning as well because it causes some confusion. Warto wspomnieć również o nazwie Pizza Marinara, która powoduje pewne zamieszanie. A lot of people think that Marinara is a seafood pizza because it refers to mare which is sea, the word for sea or ocean in Italian. Багато людей вважають, що «Марінара» — це піца з морепродуктами, оскільки вона відноситься до маре, що означає «море», італійське слово «море» або «океан». And actually outside of Italy sometimes you will find pizzerias that call their pizza Pizza Marinara and they’ll put seafood on top of it. But the name actually comes from the fact that the fisherman ate this, this was what their wives would prepare for them after they came back from a long day of fishing at sea. Mas o nome vem do facto de os pescadores comerem isto, que era o que as suas mulheres lhes preparavam depois de regressarem de um longo dia de pesca no mar. Umm, so it is what we talked about before, just the tomato sauce, the garlic, uhh, the oregano and the olive oil, so it’s just a very simple, pure pizza.

Nick: And so here in Naples there are many, many, many pizzerias but there are some in particular that are hugely popular with local people, especially in the historic centre of Naples. 尼克:那不勒斯有很多很多披萨店,但有一些特别受当地人欢迎,尤其是在那不勒斯的历史中心。 And there are several of them on the one street, which is the Via dei Tribunali, and it’s right in the heart of old Naples. And it’s amazing to see people lining outside these pizzerias for their pizza. Wspaniale jest widzieć ludzi stojących przed tymi pizzeriami po pizzę.

Wendy: Yeah, well they don’t line up very well. Wendy: Tak, cóż, nie układają się zbyt dobrze. They just kind of make a huge crowd outside the door, but, yeah, you will see dozens of people waiting outside. 他们只是在门外聚集了一大群人,但是,是的,你会看到几十个人在外面等着。

Nick: And we saw on the weekend outside Sorbillo, which is one of the most popular ones, even sixty, seventy people, waiting outside. 尼克:周末我们在索比洛外面看到了,那里是最受欢迎的地方之一,甚至有六十、七十个人在外面等着。 And it’s the kind of crowd, that you’re kind of walking near it and you see all these people, and you think, ‘Oh, maybe there’s an accident, or a fight, or street art, or some kind of event that’s drawn people together,' but no, it’s just people waiting for their pizza. Wendy: Yeah.

Nick: And it’s cool because it shows that the people are fiercely loyal and that they value the quality of their pizza above all else. Nick: I to jest fajne, bo pokazuje, że ludzie są bardzo lojalni i ponad wszystko cenią jakość swojej pizzy. Нік: І це круто, тому що це показує, що люди шалено лояльні та цінують якість своєї піци понад усе. 尼克:这很酷,因为它表明人们非常忠诚,而且他们最看重披萨的质量。

Wendy: Yeah. Wendy: Sim.

Nick: So they’ll wait for forty minutes or fifty minutes or something like that. And these famous pizzerias, they’re very simple inside, kind of spartan in their decoration, and you’ll get … your drinks will come in plastic cups and things like that. A te słynne pizzerie są bardzo proste w środku, trochę spartańskie w dekoracji, a dostaniesz… twoje napoje będą w plastikowych kubkach i tym podobnych. But they don’t care about any of that. Ale ich to nie obchodzi.

Wendy: No.

Nick: As long as they get the pizza that they think is the best one, that’s the most important thing.

Wendy: Yeah the quality of the food is really the most important, even though there might be another pizzeria right across the street where they wouldn’t have to wait at all, they’re willing to wait an hour if they have to do to get the best quality. Wendy: Sim, a qualidade da comida é realmente o mais importante, mesmo que possa haver outra pizzaria do outro lado da rua onde não teriam de esperar nada, estão dispostos a esperar uma hora se tiverem de o fazer para obter a melhor qualidade.