Interview with AJ Hoge of Effortless English

well here we are in Osaka Japan with AJ

ho

hi AJ and you go for the name AJ it's

not yeah Anthony or Alfred when it

really is Allen but AJ it alright and

we've known each other we never met but

we've known each other for what ten

years it's been longer than that because

it's thirteen or fourteen thirteen or

fourteen effortless English yeah is it

still effortless they still efforts

English sorry so AJ and I we share a lot

of views on my concerning hmm it has to

be of course not effortless no but if

you enjoy it you're not forcing yourself

I do something and you're looking for

ways to enjoy it and particularly when

you actually go to use the language

you're not worried about what you get

wrong or what you forget right and that

way you're enjoying it you're engaging

with the language and stuff right now

and AJ is a user of link which very much

appreciate lutely yes and you have it

thank you and you have a channel yes on

YouTube yes it's my name just your name

AJ hook AJ hope do you have other

activities like a blog uh you have

effortlessenglishclub.com is my main

website right but really YouTube and

then there's the audio part is a podcast

you know like I'll do just oh you're the

same show it's the same show but it's a

part yet yeah okay

and you help your English learners a

with English because of always spoken in

English yes spoken very clearly without

being you know deliberately sort of

slowed it down you enunciate clearly not

all native speakers do right and so the

message there is both that they get to

see vocabulary and structure but also a

lot of encouragement yes you're very

popular yeah

and a number of your followers are very

happy to hear that we were going to get

together yes indeed because I think

there's a lot of you know like

cross-pollination between the two yes so

first question is can you explain so you

aren't going to be living in Japan now

for the foreseeable future or yes you

know we uh my wife's Japanese so right

have been you know we've been getting

long visits here and

i just two babies and we've decided we're gonna

raise them up here okay

so now I'm in Japan and yeah we have an

apartment here in Osaka and we're going

to stay we were commenting on how nice

it is here the the level of servers the

politeness are gentle in a way it's very

very pleasant I mean every country has

its has its pluses and minuses and

i'm sure there are minuses in Japan too but

there are many many pluses it's a very

pleasant place to live despite how you

know crowded it is everywhere right so

what is the AJ philosophy when it comes

to language learning you know the the

idea this that the name effortless

English right it actually was actually

it's kind of similar to your book that

write the it was also inspired by the

taoist idea right the Lu way right and

and the idea was effortless effort right

but it was kind of a clunky name right

it's just how effortless English is right

but the idea is that you know of

course on one hand it's a lot of effort

a lot of time right learn English or any language right

the idea is that it it

can feel you can be doing something that

spending a lot of effort for example

exercising who love exercising right the

one hand physically working very hard

but you can it can be something that

feels very enjoyable right that kind of

flows state you know where you feel like

well this is enjoyable and a it feels

effortless in a way right what is

explaining the flow concept

so the flow idea being that you know

you're so you're you're enjoying what

you're doing you're so focused on what

you're doing that you you know you it's

a feeling of almost forgetting time a

little bit right and you don't feel

right at you're making this you know

tortures difficult painful effort right

right which is what school feels like

you're right and I think one of the one

of the elements like I've looked at a

little bit at this flow theory and

there's a hungarian with an

unpronounceable name yes that's right

chicken chicken is highly or something

like that yeah and but the idea is

you're doing something that is a little

difficult right a little it's not too

easy like you know if people stay with

simple stories all the time you never

push themselves to harder stories for

example in language learning right then

they won't achieve that sense of flow

they'll get a hell keep a sense of

boredom right then you get bored on that

yeah that's the stress on one side and

then kind of boredom on the other

exactly and it's finding that it's

finding that sweet spot where it's a

little bit difficult but you feel you

can do it yeah and then you find that

you are doing it you climbed the

mountain one of the problems that sort

of first language learners have is they

don't have the confidence that they're

gonna get there yeah

so they they're climbing this mountain

and all they feel is is the hard work

and the sweat and without any real

confidence that they're going to reach

the top of the mountain right and I

think what you do is you give a lot of

them that sense of confidence that they

can make it and that they shouldn't

worry about you know they're climbing

the mountain a few rocks fall on their

head right don't worry about it keep

climbing exactly exactly that yes and

and and and trying to well it's you know

so many people especially with English

we can rise around the world people are

learning English in schools and so

they've had all these years of that kind

of you know tests and grades and

memorizing and it's good it's also kind

of stressful and it creates a mindset

that is they're so focused on you know

oh what level am i right now and yeah

what level of my it might be 1 b2 right

and then getting all stressed out about

it and totally forgetting that I can

just enjoy this language I can listen to

things that are interesting I can like

one thing now I'm doing we have a book

club and a movie club where you know so

once a week I'll do a video and we're

all just we choose a book and we all

read the first the chapter and then I

talk about it and discuss it and and it

kind of I guess they get people

interested in and fascinated with the

book that maybe before they thought I

was too hard to read right like we did

brave new world Wow

which is you know fairly tough right

for some people if it's too tough they

can just watch our videos and get a lot

of the ideas of it and this is something

that you saw this is you talked about

this on your YouTube channel and in your

podcast which is the same but where do

you then go through the book well I just

I'm doing it very generally kind of like

a like like I said like a book club

where you get together so I'm not going

through you know word by word so what I

encourage people to do is to maybe watch

the video first right I give a overview

of the chapter and I'll pick out some of

the vocab a little bit right and then

I'll say now go try it that's how to

read okay so we encourage them to go off

and do they aren't necessarily

interacting with each other right well

there's a live chat oh god so they can

ask questions during the video yeah like

a live stream yeah okay so they'll ask

questions about different things or good

fries or then we just have a discussion

about the ideas it's really good I mean

the thing about language is it's a form

of exploration so they're exploring

whatever movie or book you're exploring

with them or helping them explore right

you did some Spanish then you

when did the Camino in Spain has a form

of exploration are you living in Japan

right learning Japanese yes exploring so

we shouldn't get too hung up about what

our level is but just to kind of keep

exploring

absolutely and that and that's what

makes it enjoyable you know think that

as I was telling before that my

experience in Spain with the Camino was

so much more rich mm-hmm even we have

thought that level you know be one I'd

say yeah was probably where I was at and

that's the way I was it was so wonderful

just to chat with people and it was a

great feeling that you know call up and

get reservations and function in Spanish

there yeah even at a low level but you

have a sense of achievement I have a

sense of achievement and now you know

now it's like well like I I we're

planning to go to Spain again maybe in a

year or two and the family and I'll keep

going with it well question what is the

sort of age group of your the members of

your group call it people who follow you

on you that's it's kind of similar what

you're talking about it's it's I have a

few younger folks but it is more in the

I'd say 30s and 40s 30s and 40s that's

what we find as well I think 30s and 40s

yeah and maybe we'll end on that note

I'm beginning to feel that this whole

idea of lifelong learning mmm and that's

the people who you know do link are in

that age group yes and 50 and 60 and 70

I mean I mean 70 lifelong learning is

where it is I think language learning

doesn't have to be lying returning my

wife likes piano for example.I mean

sometimes people you know learning

doesn't ended, you know, University.

- right! you know, it's something we want to

be doing all our lives so on that note

and we're about to go after dinner marks

coming down from Tokyo so I'm very happy

to have finally had it finally see you

pretty embarrassing yeah okay bye for

now

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