EnglishLingQ 2.0 #5: Shelby Chats About her Time in Ecuador & Chile
Elle: Hi everyone and welcome to episode four of the EnglishLingQ podcast with me Elle...
and today I'm joined by LingQ team member, Shelby. Hi, Shelby.
Shelby: Hi Elle. So to call out the elephant in the room, you changed your name?
Elle: I did. Yes. Um, I'm going to start going by my middle name, Elizabeth or Elle for short. So yeah, anyone who's been watching, please, don't be confused if I suddenly start using a different name, but yeah, it's 2020.
Shelby: yeah, it's a perfect time for it. I love, um, I love it. I think people had a hard time pronouncing, um, Jahrine anyway. So maybe it will be a little bit easier for some of us.
Elle: I think. So. Yeah "jureen". Was the, uh, the pronunciation. It's a Canadian thing I think. And it's a weird name anyway, so, but Elle is easier that's for sure.
Shelby: Well, we like you, whatever your name is.
Elle: Thank you. Thank you. So, um, so Shelby I thought it would be interesting to talk with you about your experiences in. Ecuador and Chile today, because I don't know anything about them. I knew, I know that you speak Spanish amazingly well. And, um, so I mean, I don't speak Spanish myself to know, but listening to you, you sound amazing. You ran, you ran the, um, a live stream with Steve, the Spanish live stream.
Very cool. Um, so yeah, tell us about it. So what, why it was Ecuador first, right? And then Chile, you lived in both. Okay.
So, so why Ecuador?
Shelby: Yeah. Good question. Um, it comes up a lot. I, um, had a goal ever since I was in high school, probably around ages, 16, 17 to live in South America one day. And, you know, after graduating, I thought, um, it would be really cool to live in a big city too, because I'm from Portland, Oregon, which has become more well-known since I was born.
But, um, it's still a small city. It's not really what you think of as like city living. Um, so I wanted to live in a big city at some point in my life. And, um, a few years ago I saw this window of opportunity open up where I could start working remotely. And so I thought like, Ooh, like I could now go live in South America as I've always wanted to do.
And, um, I thought, why not kind of combine the two goals? Like I'll go live in a big city in South America. So, um, South America is a huge place. I didn't know at all where I wanted to go. So I kind of established what the most important aspects of the location would be for me. And I put them in a spreadsheet and I just started researching, uh, all those biggest cities and, uh, in South America and trying to optimize for those factors.
So they were more or less, um, you know, quality of life and cost of living, access to nature and hiking, um, you know, a good place to work remotely. So, you know, like easy internet access and stuff like that. Um, and relative safety too. Um, cause I was, you know, uh, 23 and going to move to South America by myself.
So, you know, mom wants to make sure this...
Elle: oh, I bet.
Shelby: ... it's well researched. It's going to be safe. So anyway, um, Quito, Ecuador, the capital of Ecuador, um, came out mostly on top and pretty much all of those aspects. So I decided to move to Quito, which it didn't turn out to be as safe as I thought it was going to be.
But I had a really great community. Um, I joined like an ex-pats in Quito Facebook group, which was very active, very well, you know, uh, moderated, I would say. Um, and you know, there was a uh, I got a lot of great, um, resources and advice and insights, um, about like what to do and which areas to avoid and stuff like that.
So, you know, I was fine the whole time that I was there, but, um, it was not the best quality of life, only due to the higher crime rate. Um, and so like, it was not advisable to basically walk on the street after sunset and the sun sets at 6:00 PM every day in Ecuador, because it's on the equator. That's where it gets its name, actually, fun fact.
So, yeah, but aside from that, like, it was absolutely there and all of the other areas, I mean, Quito is situated between, um, two giant rows of, um, just staggering mountains. So it's only like a couple of kilometers wide and 28 kilometers long. So no matter where you are in the city, you look to your left, look to your right
and you're seeing these gorgeous lush green mountains. Um, and you know, at night they're just all lit up with all the different, um, lights from restaurants and houses on them. So it's truly beautiful and amazing hiking of course.
Elle: Oh, nice. Oh yeah. I guess so with those mountains and how, how long were you in Ecuador?
In Quito, right?
Shelby: Yeah, I was only there for three months.
Elle: Oh, okay. Wow. And that was, you left because of the safety issue mainly. Um, would you say?
Shelby: Well, the that was
why I was open to pivot and go someplace else afterwards. I wasn't ready to go home. Um, but it was that an opportunity opened up at the company I was working at.
Um, which is a vacation rental management platform. And, um, it's an international company. Um, we have, or the company had a few offices in Chile, one in Santiago and then one at the coast at Valparaíso. And so, yeah, it was a great leadership opportunity opened up down in Santiago. And so my manager reached out and said, Hey, are you like open to,
to going to Chile? And I said, yeah, you know, sign me up for that.
Elle: Great. And did you know Spanish then before, because I know it's a big part of high school in the States, generally speaking, Spanish class. Did you know any Spanish before you moved?
Shelby: Yeah. Um, so I took Spanish in high school and I was actually lucky enough to start in eighth grade, but I was still in middle school and yeah, Spanish is definitely a, um, It's like the main language that people will learn.
I would say, you know, learn in quotes because most people don't get the opportunity to really learn it for whatever reason. Usually it's that, um, you know, I find that there are not the best like teachers, um, and like all around. And of course students also find that it's challenging and because it's hard, they, um, they don't like it and they, they tend to give up.
So I just was really into it. And I was always really fortunate to get super solid teachers, um, for all five years. So from eighth grade through my senior year in high school, like. Studied it really enjoyed it. Um, and I had done an immersion program in Costa Rica for a few weeks, one summer, and that really helped as well.
So I had gained like, um, conversational fluency by the time I graduated high school.
Elle: Oh, that's great. And Kind of unusual. I feel like... Did any of your friends do the same? Where you in...was everyone speaking Spanish or French or whatever?
Shelby: No, no.
think any of my friends that I was friends with outside of school,
um, Like developed fluency or anything close to it. I was actually always helping them with their Spanish homework, but friends. I, I, Oh yeah. But you know, I, I was charging of course.
Shelby: Um, but no I had, um, friends that I met through Spanish class and of course, so like there was the group of us that were prevailing seen as nerds
I'm sure that was, that was the only thing I was good at though. I wasn't like good at other classes.
Elle: I'm sure that's not true, but that's a very cool thing to be good at. It's very cool. It's amazing actually. Yeah.
I don't know anyone who just from taking classes in high school came out conversational. Like we study Welsh at school where I'm from in Wales and French.
No one I know, came out, speaking Welsh or French, so...
Shelby: oh, really?
And how, how well, thank you. Um, I mean, it was like, I had great teachers. I don't think I hadn't had those teachers. I would have, um, succeeded. Um, but how many years of Welsh and French do you take in school in Wales?
Elle: Welsh, I mean, what taught from primary school or elementary school, but just bits and pieces, you know, nothing really, um, intense.
And then in high school, uh, from the beginning of high school, which is age 11 in the UK. Um, but uh, yeah, some teachers not very inspiring or just good teachers in general. I definitely didn't have good Welsh teachers. It was a bit of a mess, honestly, our Welsh education in my high school. And French, just a couple of years and I hated it.
And now I'm learning French because I'm doing it in a way that I enjoy, not those teachers weren't, weren't very nice. So, you're so right. I mean, it really, really does. I mean, you can have a passion for something, of course, but it really helps when you have an inspiring and motivating and friendly teacher, so...
Elle: For sure. Um, so then three months in Ecuador, then you moved to Santiago in Chile. Yeah.
And so tell me about that. Chile, Chile, Chile?
Shelby: Yeah Chile. Yeah.
Um, there's a, there'd be a lot, um, to cover like my experience there was really, um, you know, it was overshadowed by the work that I was doing there because it was a really big job.
Um, And I mean, it was my first time working in leadership and like a big semi-big company. And, um, it was, it was a mess, honestly, in the beginning. Um, I, because it was exacerbated by the fact that I had just moved to a new country too. So like moving to a new country by yourself is a pretty challenging endeavor and then, you know, taking on
um, a really autonomous leadership role, um, following previously kind of negligent leadership. So I was like cleaning up a really big mess. Um, and on top of that, um, you know, while I had gained that conversational fluency in high school that had been, I don't know, um, six years prior and, um, it was Mexican Spanish and,
like, yes, it's the same language spoken throughout most of South America. Um, you know, with the exception of, um, Brazil and, um, Guyana and some of those other countries on the other side of Brazil. Um, but for the most part, I mean, it's, it's Castilian Spanish. However, in Chile, I mean, anyone who has spoken to a Chilean and is already Spanish speaking, knows
it's a very distinct dialect and there are different dialects within Chile too, but, um, they speak incredibly fast. Um, they, they, um, like cut syllables out of words. Um, they also aspirate their Ss. So instead of saying "mas"' they're going to say "ma", and so you don't like hear that, that sound that you're used to hearing.
And they also have like over a thousand words that are only used in Chile, but it's interesting cause this slang is just like pervasive, like everyone in every different, um, you know, um, social class and different generation are using these slang words and they're so common. Um, like the, the one that like, when I finally had that, like, Oh, we're not in Kansas anymore
toto moment, um, was like a few weeks in. I had been looking for Mexican food because I, as an American, I eat a lot of Mexican food and I couldn't find any, and one day I was in a taxi or an Uber and the driver told me "Spanish", which I understood as "there's a lot of tacos in the street." So, um, I said tacos, where? Like street tacos? And then he goes, Oh, no, sorry, sorry.
That's our slang "taco" is how we say traffic and Chile. There's no tacos. And I'm like, that's like a double bummer.
Elle: How Disappointing.
Shelby: It was a big disappointment. I mean, Mexico is very far away from Chile. Anyone needs to look at a map if they think there are anywhere close to each other. So, you know, that was a lot of, it was a lot of fumbling in the beginning and actually like for the first eight months or so, I would say I had a really hard time holding a, an extensive conversation with any Chilean.
Um, but I met some great friends and they really helped me. Um, you know, stay sane and, you know, and acclimate too like, I, um, felt safe speaking to them in Spanish. Um, because of course it's, it can be really like demoralizing to just not know the right word and stumble. And then people think you're stupid and you know that you're not stupid, but
they have no way of knowing that because you can't articulate yourself, so, you know, humbling experience for sure.
Elle: Yeah. And in terms of, uh, safety then, do you felt safer in Santiago than you did in Quito?
Shelby: Yeah, much safer. Um, you know, safe safety is always relative. Um, but yeah, I would say Santiago was much safer and you could walk on the street after it gets dark.
Um, you know, of course always have your wits about you, but, um, the Metro, um, is a great system of transportation and then I could easily, you know, get off and walk several blocks.
So then in
Elle: terms of culture shock, so the language, I guess, Was a bit shocking for you to realize that you had to, I guess, not learn a whole new language, but you know, learn a lot of slang and the different ways of speaking.
Was there anything else that you can think of that jumps out as surprising or took some getting used to in Chile?
Shelby: A lot, you know, it's interesting because, um, I've been to like some kind of obscure countries, um, and Chile out of any place I've been is the most similar to the US and a lot of ways, like even Santiago, it looks kind of like Los Angeles.
Um, it feels kind of like New York when you're walking on the street, because there's just like so many people and it's like a metropolis, um, And it's developed. Um, and you know, every place takes credit cards. Um, whereas in Quito, in Ecuador, like not every place is going to take credit cards. And in fact, like they are going to really want you to have like exact change cause they don't always have change.
Um, so small things like that that make you feel like, Oh, I'm really in a different place right now. You didn't have that in Chile, but, out of any place I've ever been. I had the strongest culture shock in Chile. Could have been because I was also working there. And so I felt like culture shock from, um, the way my coworkers interacted with me.
But, um, like the big thing was the food. Um, they eat a pretty, um, I would say like a not incredibly variable diet. And again, coming from the States and also coming from Portland, Oregon. Um, if anyone's like read a blog about Portland or visited, you probably know it's like a big food city and there's just...
you just get like a wide range of food. So, you know, you're going to have the Mexican food, of course, um, a lot of different foods from Asia, um, you know, um, Thai food and, um, you know, lots of sushi and different, um, Japanese foods, Korean, Chinese food. I mean, there's just so much, um, You got very little of that in Santiago and Chile.
And they mostly just eat like the core elements of the diet are, um, different kinds of meat, like ham and stuff like that. Um, cheese, and also not like sharp cheese, but more like just kind of more bland cheese, I would say. And, um, bread, like really good bread. I learned that Chile is number two in the world for bread per capita.
And right after Germany. Okay.
I met some Germans and Sheila who were like, yeah, like good breads here, but not like at home. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's amazing and delicious food. They also make, they grow some excellent, um, avacadoes there, but, um, I was vegan and gluten free when I arrived and made it really hard. To, to adapt. And I mean, I, I, I changed my diet, um, but I just found it hard to find, you know, good vegan options and like spicy food too.
Um, I find that like, of course I'm generalizing. There are certainly people who are exceptions, but the typical Chilean diet is like, you eat a lot of, um, rice, meat. Um, if you eat cheese, like really bland, almost like flavorless cheese, I would say. And you don't like spicy foods. Um, even like an onion, it might be considered really spicy.
And I feel like I'm throwing a lot of shade, but like, I, I talked to my friends in Chile about this all the time. Like you guys like. Need to expand your horizons when it comes to cuisine. And so, you know, I'm just, I like really spicy food. So I just struggled with that.
Elle: That's so sad when you gluten-free for health reasons or just, just doing it..
Shelby: Not because like I am have celiac or I'm gluten intolerant, but for health reasons, and that I found, I find that I like. Um, think better and have better energy when I stay away from gluten. I mean, I'm, I'm not strictly gluten free. I just kind of like, I try to avoid it and I don't make it like a main element of my diet.
Elle: Okay. So you did try some of the bread? Okay, good. That's good. That's good. I was going to say I love bread. Okay.
You can't beat like really good bread and really, full fat creamy butter is just...
Shelby: oh yeah.
Elle: Simple as good, but, so, okay. That was going to make me sad if you couldn't have any of that bread.
Shelby: Oh no, it's great.
Like, I, I feel bad, you know, for anyone who, who can't actually indulge and try it. Cause it's, it's amazing. They're the main bread, um, that you're going to have to try if you ever go to Chile is marraqueta. And it's sold everywhere. It's like freshly baked every day. Like even at the grocery store, as they sell the freshly baked stuff.
And you walk by like any cafe and it's just, the smell is wafting out and you're like, I need that right now.
Elle: Best smell ever. Baking bread. Good.
Um, so you were, uh, working in an office then in Santiago. Or, you were working remotely? Oh, okay. So you were able to interact with other Chileans or was it in an office of people from all over the world?
Or a bit of both.
Shelby: It was a lot of Chileans, but yeah. Um, we had people from all over the world. Um, I was really, really fortunate. Um, the team that I, um, had the pleasure of managing there, um, was the customer experience department. And they were especially like a melting pot. We had a lot of Brazilians on that team.
Um, a girl from Venezuela, um, a girl from France. And I mean, we actually, we expanded the team and ended up bringing more and more immigrants onboard. Um, yeah, a lot of Chileans. And then Brazilians, I would say, would be the next largest population we had.
Elle: And is it, so Brazilians then they're speaking Spanish? And because it's not, as, it's not, they're not super interchangeable, right?
Like you don't just know Spanish if you speak Portuguese and vice-versa or?
Shelby: Sure. Yeah.
I mean, you don't know. I mean, you, you do have to learn the languages individually, but there they are so similar and I mean, I can. I can understand. Um, I can read a decent amount of, um, Portuguese, um, and over time, as I listened to the Brazilians, like speaking with each other, and I got to know like their personalities and I was reading the context of the situation, like I was starting to understand a small amount of what they said.
Um, but yeah, they ha they had to learn the languages separately. And, um, the team that I managed, they, um, were all trilingual. So they all had to speak, um, at least English and Spanish and another language just for the requirements of that role. Um, and some of them spoke four languages. I mean, they're super impressive.
Elle: Wow, I'm so jealous of that. So...
Shelby: Yeah, it was, I felt very mediocre.
Elle: Well, yeah, just the two languages. What an idiot. And you're on your way to three now cause you're learning French. How's that going?
Shelby: Yeah. Working on it. Oh, it's, it's a lot of fun. Um, I mean I found LingQ at the beginning of this year, 2020, and I, I read a testimonial about it and I was like, Oh my gosh, like I have to,
to try this and I got into it and was starting with the mini stories. And I found that I was actually like retaining a lot of what I was reading, which was so weird. Um, and...
Elle: surprising. Yeah.
Shelby: Yeah. It's not intuitive compared to how I've learned in the past. Um, cause I've used Duolingo before. Um, and of course I've had the classes, but this was like a full-on kind of immersive experience.
Um, And then I went, like when I got into, um, you know, learning through music and importing music videos to learn that way it became, I mean, it went from like, you know, here to like off the charts in terms of fun. And I actually crave it, you know, like at the end of the night, even if I'm tired and like, I didn't get to it that day.
I'm like, I want to actually, um, study on, on LingQ right now. So...
Shelby: I've never had an experience like that before.
Elle: That's great. That's a great place. It shouldn't be a chore, you know, we're taught, well, maybe not you because you enjoyed studying Spanish in school, but for a lot of people, you know, Oh, studying is a choice.
Even if you enjoy the subject, sometimes, you know, you'd like, yeah, just get through this content. But yeah, when it doesn't feel like, like a chore, like, uh, task you have to get through in the day. It's, uh, it's a whole different thing, you know, you go at your own pace and do whatever you want. It doesn't matter.
No, one's going to be testing you at the end of it. It's just for you. Yeah, that's cool. For sure.
Shelby: Yeah, absolutely.
Elle: So how long were you in Chile? Chile.
Shelby: Uh Perfect. I was there for 14 months.
Elle: Oh, nice. Okay.
And what, uh, What would you say you miss the most about the place the country?
Shelby: Um, at this point, I would say what I miss the most are all the friendships that I made there.
Um, people through work, um, as well as some people outside of work too. Um, I have some of my best friends still down there and the, you know, the people that I worked with, especially some of them, um, who I became really close with and um, really mentored them and got to see like them, you know, get promoted and grow a lot through the company.
It's, um, it's hard to not work with them anymore. Um, you know, LingQ stole my heart. I said, I have to go work at this other company now. But also, you know, just on a friendship level, um, I miss hanging out with them, but of course we've got, you know, WhatsApp and, uh, can stay in touch that way. And it's a blessing to be able to maintain friendships from long distance.
Elle: Do you think any plans, I mean, when the world goes back to normal, whatever that is, any plans to, uh, visit in the future?
Shelby: Sure. Yeah.
Um, and actually I went back, um, like I moved home in the beginning of, or like in the first quarter of 2019. Um, and then I went back actually in January of this year, so that was still through work, but I got to see my friends a lot down there too.
So, um, I would like to be able to visit for sure. And I would love like to go other places as well. And so a lot of the friends that I have are big travelers as well. So I said, let's meet someplace else next time.
Elle: Oh Yeah, that's a really good idea. That's good. Um, and do you have any advice I was like to ask at the end, um, because I've never, I've never been to South America or central America actually, so, and I'd like to it just, I just.
You know, I grew up in the UK. I'm really far, but now I'm closeer, so it makes sense. So, um, I will definitely one day. And what advice do you have? Uh, I know it's a huge place and you were in, um, Ecuador and, uh, Chile, but, uh, do you have any advice for people thinking of visiting or even going to live in one of those countries?
Shelby: Yeah. Um, well, I mean, if you like spicy food, like be prepared that you're not gonna find a lot of it. So like bring, like have a backup plan, you know.
Elle: Bring those spices with you.
Shelby: Bottle of Sriracha or something. Um, and I mean, definitely do your research before you go, just like before you go anywhere. Um, You want to be prepared for, you know, how to pay for things, how to get around.
Like, don't, don't expect to be able to like go to an ATM and make a withdrawal anywhere that you go. Um, and that's general travel advice, of course. Um, but that little bit of research really goes a long way. And I would say also, like, see if you can find, um, Facebook groups, um, or there's so many other different platforms you can go on these days, you could use like meetup.
Um, and I think it's called like couch surfing, like all these different platforms you can use to kind of network with people, um, before you get there and ask them for advice. Um, but yeah, I mean, I would just say like, you know, be open-minded because the people and South America and the various countries within it, um, and central America, like they
um, they're, they have a different culture and there's something there's something unique to experience in every culture that you visit and if you expect them to be just like you, but they speak a different language. Um, you know, that's probably not true, but you will find that you have so much more in common
than you perceived before going there. So like try to actually get to know the people at the every day level and sure. Like do the touristy stuff. If, if you want to, like, that's always fun, but to try to actually interact and get to know people, um, on the day to day level, because you're going to experience a whole different level of that culture and be able to appreciate it a lot more.
Elle: That's good advice. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much, Shelby. That was really interesting for me to find out as a, with us also working, not in the same place, it's really nice to get to know a bit more about Eve as well. So, yeah.
Shelby: Yeah. Likewise. Thank you. And, and what about, what about Elle? Um, what's one of the, I mean, what, what's one of the most recent or most favorite countries that you visited?
Elle: Wow. Oh, most recent. I haven't been anywhere in a really long time actually. Now that I think about it, I haven't even back... I'm from Wales in the UK. I haven't been back in a couple of years, so I think I always have to say Japan just because I lived there for three years. And yeah, like, like you mentioned with getting to know the people, you know,ever as intimately as, as you can, as a foreigner in a country, um, was just amazing.
The people there are just so wonderful, friendly, and warm and just the place is just so steeped in tradition and history. An it's beautiful. And I love it and I miss it all the time. I really, really want to go back sometime soon, but I think my son is two and a half now. So I think when he's around, you know, at an age, he could really enjoy it.
So maybe, maybe like 10, I think is the youngest, you know, before age 10, I think maybe just want to be playing and not going to sightseeing or whatever. So we'll see what kind of kid he is anyway, but yeah, definitely need to get back. That's a long way off, actually that's seven and a half years from now.
Shelby: I know
Elle: We'll see if we get there sooner, but...
Shelby: You've got to fit in some, some other trips before then for sure. Maybe not as far.
Elle: Yeah, well, I've never been to Portland and Vancouver is so close to Portland, so that's definitely on my list. So, and Marc, uh, my husband is from Vancouver. I don't know if he's been to Portland either, which is crazy really where he grew up in Vancouver.
But have you been to Vancouver?
Shelby: Yeah, I visited, but I mean, it was a really short, was that the only time? I think I've only been once. It was actually for my birthday a few years ago. Um, but you know, it was like a two to three day trip and there's so much to see there. Um, but I remember days in July and so I like just, I had, I mean, it's just beautiful, perfect weather.
And I went with my best friends and, uh, we had such a great time. I thought the whole vibe of the city, um, was perfect and I thought I could see myself living there one day.
Elle: I hear it's kind of similar to the vibe in Portland. Is that, would you say?
Shelby: I think so. I mean, definitely like you have the West coast cities.
I mean, I don't even count LA, but like starting in like San Francisco and then Portland and Seattle, um, you know, like the, the trio, the Pacific Northwest trio in the States, but Vancouver, I think is like the best of all of them, because it it's similar, you know, but it's also. It's in Canada, first of all, which is just a great country.
And it's, um, it's so much more international. Like I was gonna say it feels more international, but it actually is more international. You hear multiple different languages being spoken. Um, I mean, I went to a lot of touristy places, so maybe that was a reason for it. Um, but being able to hear like Cantonese and French, and I heard a lot of Spanish too, um, and English, like all the same place that you, you don't get so much of that in Portland.
Elle: Oh, okay. No, that is, that is accurate for Vancouver, for sure. It's very multicultural. Yeah.
I think it's, I think it's...we're also 50% of the countries are a city in North America with the highest, um, Asian population. I think we're around 50% in Vancouver too. And yeah, I'm just thinking of my street. So we have like Persian, Chinese, Japanese, like, and there's a whole area in Vancouver, a lot of East Indian.
It's really, it's really cool. I do love that about Vancouver, for sure. So, yeah.
Shelby: Yeah. Well, it's important to get exposed to those other cultures.
Elle: I think
so yeah. And it's just like, yeah, it's important for sure. And just so lucky, you know, like to, to have that richness of, um, of culture around is nice. So yeah.
Elle: you will have to come visit because, uh, we would love to meet you in person one day.
The, those of us who were in the Vancouver office, not all of us, but those of us who are would love to have you up.
Shelby: Thank you, likewise. Yeah.
As soon as, uh, as soon as your country starts letting us back in. Yeah.
Elle: Such a weird time. I hope there's hope on the horizon. People are being vaccinated now. Finally, it's finally, I mean, it's amazing. Took them so long!
Shelby: I know it took long enough, right? I'm ready to start traveling again, guys. Let's get the show on the road. Yes, I would, I would love to come up and stay for a longer stay and be able to meet my awesome coworkers in person that live in Vancouver.
Elle: Excellent. Well...
Shelby: we'll make it happen.
Elle: We will, we will looking forward to it. Well, thank you so much, Shelby. And I will chat to you again at some point for the podcast, if that's okay. We'll think of some other interesting topics.
Shelby: Great. Yeah, I would love to. It's always great chatting with you, Elle. Um, and, and thanks so much for the questions.
Elle: Thank you. Bye