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The Fraser Institute, Better Treatment, Better Care (2)

Better Treatment, Better Care (2)

are because the principle on the surface if it's interpreted right doesn't have

to be a straightjacket it actually can can be

the aspirational goal all of us want to achieve do you think the way it's

written is it prevents it creates a barrier to some of the reforms we'll be

talking about i don't know the the universality term

specifically does but there's an interesting thought that we can have

what canadian would live without a universal access healthcare system what

canadian province would say to its population we're no longer going to have

universal access healthcare in this country healthcare is a matter of

provincial jurisdiction the canada health act is an exercise of the federal

spending power that is the federal government taxes more than it requires

for its own responsibilities and then redistributes that money as an exercise

of the spending power and the canada health act is one of the governing

conditions for it why have the term at all no province is

going to move away from it no sensible government will move away from it the

federal government to my mind when it comes to the canada health act needs to

enforce portability the ability for people to move freely from one province

to another and still be covered for a universally accessible health care

system i think makes a great deal of sense when it comes to labor mobility

when it comes to flexibility in the economy but does it really need to

enforce universality when we know no province is going to back away from

that that's a good point so it's there's al

there's sort of a populist holding their governments to account on that principle

so you don't really need the heavy hand of the federal government coming in that

makes some sense let's talk about comprehensiveness i've never really

understood what comprehensiveness means in the context of the canada health act

because there are a lot of services that are not covered by the canada health act

and there's a lot of services you can pay for out of pocket you can co-pay for

and so when we talk about comprehensiveness

what what it doesn't seem to me like it is a barrier but i'm wondering what what

what is it supposed to cover when we're talking about federal legislation and

the federal spending power you just spoke about there's almost a historical

component to comprehensiveness comprehensiveness defines what is to be

covered and it is the the health care system

that a province sets up in order to have access to its federal transfers must

cover physician services and hospital care medically necessary physician

services and hospital care this is where this term medically necessary originates

it really is around comprehensiveness in the canada health act uh and so

now we've got a healthcare system that has to be universal it has to cover

everybody it has to have these particular services covered in it but

it's this is where the tweet comes why we don't necessarily have drugs or

dental services or other services within the universal construct because they're

not really defined in by the canada health act so they're not a necessary

requirement but the other parts of the canada health act that do force

provinces to go down a less efficient policy approach that is a policy

approach that is going to cost more and deliver less as a result of what's

required by the canada health act in a manner might be considered to be

tied to that other requirement where provinces are saying well

we know we have to be inefficient because the federal government forces us

to be so we're only going to cover what they say we have to you know i i wonder

if an error was made in choosing physician services to be under that

umbrella because not not every time you go to the doctor is it essential

sometimes you're getting a renewal of a prescription sometimes you're just doing

a basic checkup on an annual basis i mean you could probably argue

that um that vital pharmaceuticals are more essential once you've been

diagnosed with a disease you need to manage or if you've got some kind of

severe toothache going to the dentist is more essential than that than that

physician visit uh what do you do does that exist elsewhere in other in other

jurisdictions where only the government can pay if you go to the doctor no that

that is a very uniquely canadian canadian experience where you don't have

an alternative for your medically necessary care and we do see provinces

tweaking with this term medically necessary all the time trying to balance

budgets defining what is and what is not medically necessary is what you do pay

your doctor for and what you don't we know now when you go to the doctor in

alberta you're going to pay for your doctor's note for your work because

that's no longer a medically necessary service there's a little sign on the on

the door in the exam room this is what you're going to pay for that service

please one problem per visit because that's how the medically necessary

government operates it really all does come back to cost

efficiency there's a very interesting tweak that occurs here though uh as we

go through the canada health act sections 18 through 21 disallow cost

sharing and extra billing that is we cannot have patients sharing the cost of

care consumed and we cannot have any private top-up to services that are

funded by government any funding by government must be complete it can't be

partial when you take that and combine it with medically necessary we now

create a system where the pharmaceutical has a copay because that that is

reasonable based on how the insurance system is structured but the physician

does not so we go to the physician with no copay the physician prescribes the

drug that is actually going to do the healing and now there's a copay but

provinces have no way of addressing this under the canada health act because the

physician must be copay free okay

and copay is going to be a pretty important aspect for us to to discuss

when we start talking about the other systems let's talk about accessibility

because when when you talk about accessibility

you would think that this aspect of how long you're waiting for medically

necessary treatment would factor into it i years ago when this was litigated at

the federal level and the shoutly decision came about the decision was

access to a waiting list is not access to health care sadly that seemed to only

apply in quebec it didn't apply to the rest of the country i never quite

understood why that was but what does accessibility mean in this context when

we're talking about the canada health act because it means something different

than i than i think it should accessibility it reinforces a lot of the

other principles we come back to ensuring everyone has access to health

care but this is where we come into section 12.

section 12 is is the problematic section healthcare because it requires that

patients have reasonable access to medical services and that is entirely up

to the federal government's discretion what that term means and so we have

interpretation letters that have come from the federal government federal

health ministers over time that have said private clinics providing surgical

services may impede reasonable access to

healthcare in the opinion of the health minister sounds like a very benign

statement but it's not that is a direct assault on the province's freedom to

determine its own policy structure because the federal government said

section 12 might come into play section 12 a violation of that means we pull

back all of your cash transfers and so the federal government can at any time

say under this under this particular principle we think what you're doing to

your province is impeding reasonable access to health care services it could

be as simple as saying alberta saskatchewan we know you're contracting

out some services to private surgical facilities we appreciate the evidence

that says this is a more efficient way to deliver more health care services but

we think it impedes reasonable access and and all of a sudden now the

prevention the federal transfers are under threat so this is the section

where we really run into where the canada health act poses a barrier but

but it's an it's an almost undefinable barrier because it's an undefined term

in the act itself and so there's no definition to fall back on just as

important this is not a justiceable act this is not an act that can go to court

to be challenged this is an exercise of the federal spending power so it is

entirely the federal government's discretion what this act says and how

it's enforced wow let's and we'll talk about how significant those factors

those um transfers has have become which is why i think there's a reluctance for

provinces to to to try to push the envelope i was using the word trans

transferable the actual word is portability the idea that you should be

able to travel anywhere in the country and and get coverage now do we do we

succeed in that is our system portable if i

broke my leg in quebec would i be able to get services there if i needed to get

my gallbladder removed if on a trip to saskatchewan would i be able to get it

removed there i guess i don't i don't even really know how portable the system

is yeah it is reasonably portable there are some issues with how some provinces

are paying for care in other provinces which has created some barriers for

patients on an ongoing routine basis but we do have a healthcare system where

while you're traveling in canada the provinces are funding healthcare in the

in the alternate province it also protects patients moving from province

to providence so for 90 days your province of origin will provide for your

healthcare services while you meet the eligibility in the next province so it's

set some terms around that in many ways i think this is actually a

very important part of the canada health act because it does ensure labor

mobility in the country it does ensure that when you have a recession or an

economic event in one province that canadians can move within their own

country to another province without being locked to a health care policy in

a province without being locked to a province because of their health care

needs and i think that's an important thing to have for canada's economy

generally and for canadians generally okay so let's just do a summary here

public administration we can live with that although we would get a better more

tailored system if we allowed for some competition so people could tailor the

program to what they actually need universality great principle

and but it can be implemented in a way that's different than how we've

implemented it here comprehensive we've already created the flexibility it seems

to me within that interpretation so that we can start looking at things that are

covered 100 and things that are that you have a copay for

accessibility if we can get that redefined around talking about

accessible healthcare being access and wait times then we might be able to make

it somewhere and portability we'd keep so my general view is that there's

nothing really in the canada health act that is preventing that is absolutely

putting a stop on on any transformation am i being too optimistic

i think you're being optimistic on two terms section 12 of sections 18 through

21. section 12 is is the reasonable access term the undefined term that has


Better Treatment, Better Care (2) Mejor tratamiento, mejor atención (2) Лучшее лечение, лучший уход (2) Краще лікування, кращий догляд (2) 更好的治疗,更好的护理 (2)

are because the principle on the surface if it's interpreted right doesn't have parce que le principe à la surface s'il est interprété correctement n'a pas それが正しく解釈されれば表面上の原理が持っていないからです

to be a straightjacket it actually can can be à b e une camisole de force, cela peut en fait être

the aspirational goal all of us want to achieve do you think the way it's l'objectif ambitieux que nous voulons tous atteindre pensez-vous que la façon dont c'est

written is it prevents it creates a barrier to some of the reforms we'll be écrit empêche cela crée un obstacle à certaines des réformes dont nous parlerons

talking about i don't know the the universality term je ne connais pas le terme d'universalité

specifically does but there's an interesting thought that we can have fait spécifiquement, mais il y a une pensée intéressante que nous pouvons avoir

what canadian would live without a universal access healthcare system what ce que le canadien vivrait sans un système de santé d'accès universel ce que la

canadian province would say to its population we're no longer going to have province canadienne dirait à sa population nous n'allons plus avoir

universal access healthcare in this country healthcare is a matter of des soins de santé d'accès universel dans ce pays les soins de santé sont une question de

provincial jurisdiction the canada health act is an exercise of the federal compétence provinciale la loi canadienne sur la santé est un exercice du pouvoir

spending power that is the federal government taxes more than it requires fédéral de dépenser, c'est-à-dire que le gouvernement fédéral impose plus qu'il n'en a besoin

for its own responsibilities and then redistributes that money as an exercise pour ses propres responsabilités, puis redistribue cet argent dans le cadre de l' exercice

of the spending power and the canada health act is one of the governing du pouvoir de dépenser et la loi canadienne sur la santé est l'une des

conditions for it why have the term at all no province is conditions régissant c'est pourquoi avoir le terme aucune province ne

going to move away from it no sensible government will move away from it the va s'en éloigner aucun gouvernement sensé ne s'en éloignera le

federal government to my mind when it comes to the canada health act needs to gouvernement fédéral à mon avis en ce qui concerne la loi canadienne sur la santé, il faut

enforce portability the ability for people to move freely from one province imposer la transférabilité, la capacité des gens de se déplacer librement d'une province

to another and still be covered for a universally accessible health care à l'autre tout en étant couverts par un système de soins de santé universellement accessible

system i think makes a great deal of sense when it comes to labor mobility , je pense que cela a beaucoup de sens en ce qui concerne la mobilité de la main-d'œuvre

when it comes to flexibility in the economy but does it really need to lorsque il s'agit de flexibilité dans l'économie, mais a-t-il vraiment besoin d'

enforce universality when we know no province is going to back away from imposer l'universalité alors que nous savons qu'aucune province ne reculera devant

that that's a good point so it's there's al cela, c'est un bon point, donc c'est qu'il

there's sort of a populist holding their governments to account on that principle y a une sorte de populiste qui demande des comptes à ses gouvernements sur ce principe,

so you don't really need the heavy hand of the federal government coming in that alors vous je n'ai pas vraiment besoin de la main lourde du gouvernement fédéral qui entre en jeu cela a

makes some sense let's talk about comprehensiveness i've never really du sens parlons d'intégralité je n'ai jamais vraiment

understood what comprehensiveness means in the context of the canada health act compris ce que signifie l'intégralité dans le contexte de la loi canadienne sur la santé

because there are a lot of services that are not covered by the canada health act parce qu'il y a beaucoup de services qui ne sont pas couverts par la loi canadienne sur la santé

and there's a lot of services you can pay for out of pocket you can co-pay for et il y a beaucoup de services que vous pouvez payer de votre poche pour lesquels vous pouvez co-payer

and so when we talk about comprehensiveness et donc quand nous parlons d'intégralité

what what it doesn't seem to me like it is a barrier but i'm wondering what what ce qu'il ne fait pas semblent moi comme il est une barrière, mais je me demande ce que

what is it supposed to cover when we're talking about federal legislation and c'est - il censé couvrir quand nous parlons de la législation fédérale et

the federal spending power you just spoke about there's almost a historical le pouvoir fédéral de dépenser, vous venez de parler, il y a presque une

component to comprehensiveness comprehensiveness defines what is to be composante historique définit d'exhaustivité de l' exhaustivité ce qui est de être

covered and it is the the health care system couvert et c'est le système de soins de santé

that a province sets up in order to have access to its federal transfers must qu'une province met en place afin d'avoir accès à ses transferts fédéraux doit

cover physician services and hospital care medically necessary physician couvrir les services médicaux et les soins hospitaliers les services médicaux et les soins hospitaliers médicalement nécessaires

services and hospital care this is where this term medically necessary originates c'est de là que vient ce terme médicalement nécessaire

it really is around comprehensiveness in the canada health act uh and so c'est vraiment autour l'intégralité dans la loi canadienne sur la santé euh et

now we've got a healthcare system that has to be universal it has to cover maintenant nous avons un système de santé qui doit être universel il doit couvrir

everybody it has to have these particular services covered in it but tout le monde il doit avoir ces services particuliers couverts mais

it's this is where the tweet comes why we don't necessarily have drugs or c'est de là que vient le tweet pourquoi nous ne le faisons pas ont nécessairement des médicaments ou

dental services or other services within the universal construct because they're des services dentaires ou d'autres services dans le concept universel parce qu'ils ne

not really defined in by the canada health act so they're not a necessary sont pas vraiment définis par la loi canadienne sur la santé, donc ils ne sont pas un n

requirement but the other parts of the canada health act that do force exigence nécessaire, mais les autres parties de la loi canadienne

provinces to go down a less efficient policy approach that is a policy sur la santé qui obligent les provinces à adopter une approche stratégique moins efficace, c'est-à-dire une

approach that is going to cost more and deliver less as a result of what's approche stratégique qui coûtera plus cher et produira moins en raison de ce qui est

required by the canada health act in a manner might be considered to be exigé par la loi canadienne sur la santé dans un manière pourrait être considérée comme étant

tied to that other requirement where provinces are saying well liée à cette autre exigence où les provinces disent bien que

we know we have to be inefficient because the federal government forces us nous savons que nous devons être inefficaces parce que le gouvernement fédéral nous oblige

to be so we're only going to cover what they say we have to you know i i wonder à l'être, alors nous allons seulement couvrir ce qu'elles disent, nous savons que je me demande

if an error was made in choosing physician services to be under that si une erreur a été commise en choisissant les services d'un médecin sous ce

umbrella because not not every time you go to the doctor is it essential parapluie, car il n'est pas essentiel à chaque fois que vous allez chez le médecin,

sometimes you're getting a renewal of a prescription sometimes you're just doing parfois vous obtenez un renouvellement d'une ordonnance parfois vous ne faites

a basic checkup on an annual basis i mean you could probably argue qu'un examen de base sur une base annuelle i cela signifie que vous pourriez probablement dire

that um that vital pharmaceuticals are more essential once you've been que, euh, les produits pharmaceutiques vitaux sont plus essentiels une fois que vous avez reçu un

diagnosed with a disease you need to manage or if you've got some kind of diagnostic de maladie que vous devez gérer ou si vous avez une sorte de

severe toothache going to the dentist is more essential than that than that mal de dents grave, aller chez le dentiste est plus esse ntial que celle de cette

physician visit uh what do you do does that exist elsewhere in other in other visite de médecin euh qu'est-ce que vous faites ce que cela existe ailleurs dans d' autres dans d' autres

jurisdictions where only the government can pay if you go to the doctor no that juridictions où seul le gouvernement peut payer si vous allez chez le médecin sans que

that is a very uniquely canadian canadian experience where you don't have ce soit une expérience canadienne très unique au Canada où vous ne disposez pas d'

an alternative for your medically necessary care and we do see provinces un alternative pour vos soins médicalement nécessaires et nous voyons des provinces

tweaking with this term medically necessary all the time trying to balance peaufiner ce terme médicalement nécessaire tout le temps en essayant d'équilibrer les

budgets defining what is and what is not medically necessary is what you do pay budgets définissant ce qui est et ce qui n'est pas médicalement nécessaire est ce pour quoi vous payez

your doctor for and what you don't we know now when you go to the doctor in votre médecin et ce que vous ne savez pas maintenant quand tu vas chez le docteur en

alberta you're going to pay for your doctor's note for your work because alberta tu vas payer pour ton billet de docteur pour ton travail parce

that's no longer a medically necessary service there's a little sign on the on que ce n'est plus un service médicalement nécessaire il y a une petite pancarte sur

the door in the exam room this is what you're going to pay for that service la porte de la salle d'examen c'est ce que tu vas payer pour ce service

please one problem per visit because that's how the medically necessary s'il vous plaît un problème par visite parce que c'est ainsi que fonctionne le

government operates it really all does come back to cost gouvernement médicalement nécessaire tout revient vraiment à la rentabilité

efficiency there's a very interesting tweak that occurs here though uh as we il y a un ajustement très intéressant qui se produit ici cependant euh comme nous

go through the canada health act sections 18 through 21 disallow cost allons t en vertu de la loi canadienne sur la santé, les articles 18 à 21 interdisent le partage des

sharing and extra billing that is we cannot have patients sharing the cost of coûts et la surfacturation, c'est-à-dire que nous ne pouvons pas faire partager aux patients le coût des

care consumed and we cannot have any private top-up to services that are soins consommés et nous ne pouvons pas avoir de supplément privé pour les services

funded by government any funding by government must be complete it can't be financés par le gouvernement tout financement par le gouvernement doit être complet cela ne peut pas être

partial when you take that and combine it with medically necessary we now partiel lorsque vous prenez cela et que vous le combinez avec une nécessité médicale, nous

create a system where the pharmaceutical has a copay because that that is créons maintenant un système où le produit pharmaceutique a une quote-part parce que c'est

reasonable based on how the insurance system is structured but the physician raisonnable en fonction de la façon dont le système d'assurance est structuré, mais le médecin

does not so we go to the physician with no copay the physician prescribes the ne le fait pas, alors nous allons au médecin sans quote-part le médecin prescrit le

drug that is actually going to do the healing and now there's a copay but médicament qui va réellement guérir et maintenant il y a une quote-part mais les

provinces have no way of addressing this under the canada health act because the provinces n'ont aucun moyen de régler ce problème en vertu de la loi

physician must be copay free okay canadienne sur la santé parce que le médecin doit être libre de quote-part d'accord

and copay is going to be a pretty important aspect for us to to discuss et la quote-part va être un aspect assez important pour nous de discuter

when we start talking about the other systems let's talk about accessibility lorsque nous commençons à parler des autres systèmes, parlons d'accessibilité

because when when you talk about accessibility parce que lorsque vous parlez d'accessibilité,

you would think that this aspect of how long you're waiting for medically vous pensez que Cet aspect de la durée d'attente pour un traitement

necessary treatment would factor into it i years ago when this was litigated at médicalement nécessaire serait pris en compte il y a des années, lorsque cela a été plaidé au

the federal level and the shoutly decision came about the decision was niveau fédéral et que la décision criarde a été prise, la décision était que l'

access to a waiting list is not access to health care sadly that seemed to only accès à une liste d'attente n'est pas l'accès aux soins de santé, malheureusement cela ne semblait

apply in quebec it didn't apply to the rest of the country i never quite s'appliquer qu'au québec cela ne s'appliquait pas au reste du pays je n'ai jamais très bien

understood why that was but what does accessibility mean in this context when compris pourquoi mais qu'est-ce que l'accessibilité signifie dans ce contexte quand

we're talking about the canada health act because it means something different on parle de la loi canadienne sur la santé parce que cela signifie quelque chose de différent

than i than i think it should accessibility it reinforces a lot of the de moi que je pense que cela devrait l'accessibilité, cela renforce beaucoup d'

other principles we come back to ensuring everyone has access to health autres principes nous revenons pour garantir que tout le monde a accès aux soins de

care but this is where we come into section 12. santé , mais c'est là que nous entrons dans la section 12. la

section 12 is is the problematic section healthcare because it requires that section 12 est la section problématique des soins de santé car elle exige que les

patients have reasonable access to medical services and that is entirely up patients aient l'accès aux services médicaux et c'est entièrement

to the federal government's discretion what that term means and so we have à la discrétion du gouvernement fédéral ce que signifie ce terme et nous avons donc

interpretation letters that have come from the federal government federal des lettres d'interprétation qui sont venues du gouvernement fédéral

health ministers over time that have said private clinics providing surgical Les ministres fédéraux de la Santé qui ont déclaré au fil du temps que les cliniques privées offrant des

services may impede reasonable access to services chirurgicaux peuvent entraver un accès raisonnable aux soins de

healthcare in the opinion of the health minister sounds like a very benign santé, de l'avis du ministre de la Santé, semblent être une déclaration

statement but it's not that is a direct assault on the province's freedom to très bénigne , mais ce n'est pas une attaque directe contre la liberté de la province de

determine its own policy structure because the federal government said déterminer sa propre structure politique parce que le gouvernement fédéral a dit que l'

section 12 might come into play section 12 a violation of that means we pull article 12 pourrait s'appliquer à l'article 12, une violation de cela signifie que nous retirons

back all of your cash transfers and so the federal government can at any time tous vos transferts en espèces et que le gouvernement fédéral peut donc à tout moment

say under this under this particular principle we think what you're doing to dire en vertu de ce principe particulier que nous pensons que ce que vous faites pour

your province is impeding reasonable access to health care services it could votre province empêche un accès raisonnable aux services de soins de santé, cela pourrait

be as simple as saying alberta saskatchewan we know you're contracting être aussi simple que de dire alberta saskatchewan nous savons que vous sous-

out some services to private surgical facilities we appreciate the evidence traitez certains services à des établissements chirurgicaux privés nous apprécions les preuves

that says this is a more efficient way to deliver more health care services but qui indiquent qu'il s'agit d'un moyen plus efficace de fournir plus de services de soins de santé mais

we think it impedes reasonable access and and all of a sudden now the nous pensons que cela entrave l'accès raisonnable et tout d'un coup maintenant la

prevention the federal transfers are under threat so this is the section prévention des transferts fédéraux sont sous t c'est donc la section

where we really run into where the canada health act poses a barrier but où nous rencontrons vraiment où la loi canadienne sur la santé constitue un obstacle, mais

but it's an it's an almost undefinable barrier because it's an undefined term c'est un obstacle presque indéfinissable car c'est un terme indéfini

in the act itself and so there's no definition to fall back on just as dans la loi elle-même et il n'y a donc pas de définition sur laquelle se rabattre tout aussi

important this is not a justiceable act this is not an act that can go to court important que cela n'est pas un acte justiciable ce n'est pas un acte qui peut aller devant les tribunaux

to be challenged this is an exercise of the federal spending power so it is pour être contesté c'est un exercice du pouvoir fédéral de dépenser donc c'est

entirely the federal government's discretion what this act says and how entièrement à la discrétion du gouvernement fédéral ce que dit cette loi et comment

it's enforced wow let's and we'll talk about how significant those factors elle est appliquée wow allons et nous allons parler sur la façon significative ces facteurs

those um transfers has have become which is why i think there's a reluctance for ces um transferts est sont devenus ce qui est pourquoi je pense qu'il ya une certaine réticence pour les

provinces to to to try to push the envelope i was using the word trans provinces à la pour essayer de pousser l'enveloppe que j'utilisais le mot trans

transferable the actual word is portability the idea that you should be transférable le mot lui- même est la portabilité de l'idée que vous devriez être en

able to travel anywhere in the country and and get coverage now do we do we mesure de Voyage n'importe où dans le pays et obtenir une couverture maintenant est-ce que nous

succeed in that is our system portable if i réussissons c'est notre système portable si je me suis

broke my leg in quebec would i be able to get services there if i needed to get cassé la jambe au Québec pourrais-je obtenir des services là-bas si je devais me faire

my gallbladder removed if on a trip to saskatchewan would i be able to get it enlever ma vésicule biliaire si lors d'un voyage en saskatchewan, pourrais-je le faire

removed there i guess i don't i don't even really know how portable the system retirer là-bas, je suppose que non, je ne sais même pas vraiment à quel point le système

is yeah it is reasonably portable there are some issues with how some provinces est portable, oui, il est raisonnablement portable, il y a des problèmes avec la façon dont certaines provinces

are paying for care in other provinces which has created some barriers for paient pour les soins dans d'autres provinces, ce qui a créé des obstacles pour les

patients on an ongoing routine basis but we do have a healthcare system where patients sur une base continue, mais nous avons un système de santé où,

while you're traveling in canada the provinces are funding healthcare in the pendant que vous voyagez au Canada, les provinces financent les soins de santé dans la

in the alternate province it also protects patients moving from province province alternative, cela protège également les patients qui se déplacent d'une province

to providence so for 90 days your province of origin will provide for your à l'autre Donc, pendant 90 jours, votre province d'origine fournira vos

healthcare services while you meet the eligibility in the next province so it's services de santé pendant que vous remplissez les conditions d'admissibilité dans la province suivante. Il y a donc

set some terms around that in many ways i think this is actually a des conditions à bien des égards. Je pense que c'est en fait une

very important part of the canada health act because it does ensure labor partie très importante de la loi canadienne sur la santé, car elle assurer la

mobility in the country it does ensure that when you have a recession or an mobilité de la main-d'œuvre dans le pays, il garantit que lorsque vous avez une récession ou un

economic event in one province that canadians can move within their own événement économique dans une province, les canadiens peuvent déménager dans leur propre

country to another province without being locked to a health care policy in pays vers une autre province sans être être bloqué sur une politique de soins de santé dans

a province without being locked to a province because of their health care une province sans être bloqué dans une province en raison de ses besoins en

needs and i think that's an important thing to have for canada's economy matière de soins de santé et je pense que c'est une chose importante à avoir pour l'économie

generally and for canadians generally okay so let's just do a summary here canadienne en général et pour les canadiens en général d'accord alors faisons un résumé ici

public administration we can live with that although we would get a better more l'administration publique nous peut vivre avec cela bien que nous obtiendrions un meilleur système plus

tailored system if we allowed for some competition so people could tailor the adapté si nous permettions une certaine concurrence afin que les gens puissent adapter le

program to what they actually need universality great principle programme à ce dont ils ont réellement besoin l'universalité grand principe

and but it can be implemented in a way that's different than how we've et mais il peut être mis en œuvre d'une manière différente de la façon dont nous avons

implemented it here comprehensive we've already created the flexibility it seems mis en œuvre ici complet, nous avons déjà créé la flexibilité qui me semble

to me within that interpretation so that we can start looking at things that are dans cette interprétation afin que nous puissions commencer à regarder les choses qui sont

covered 100 and things that are that you have a copay for couvertes 100 et les choses qui sont que vous avez une quote-part pour l'

accessibility if we can get that redefined around talking about accessibilité si nous pouvons redéfinir cela autour de parler d'

accessible healthcare being access and wait times then we might be able to make accessibilité les soins de santé étant l'accès et les temps d'attente, nous pourrions peut-être arriver

it somewhere and portability we'd keep so my general view is that there's quelque part et la portabilité que nous conserverions, donc mon opinion générale est qu'il n'y a

nothing really in the canada health act that is preventing that is absolutely rien vraiment dans la loi canadienne sur la santé qui empêche cela met absolument

putting a stop on on any transformation am i being too optimistic un terme à toute transformation suis-je trop optimiste

i think you're being optimistic on two terms section 12 of sections 18 through je pense que vous êtes optimiste sur deux termes article 12 des articles 18 à

21\. section 12 is is the reasonable access term the undefined term that has 21\. l'article 12 est le terme d'accès raisonnable le terme non défini qui a