English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17: Benny Lewis On His Language Learning Methods & The Importance of Making Mistakes Englisch LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17: Benny Lewis über seine Sprachlernmethoden und die Bedeutung von Fehlern English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17: Benny Lewis On His Language Learning Methods & The Importance of Making Mistakes Inglés LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17: Benny Lewis sobre sus métodos de aprendizaje de idiomas y la importancia de cometer errores English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17 : Benny Lewis parle de ses méthodes d'apprentissage des langues et de l'importance de faire des erreurs Podcast LingQ 2.0 inglese #17: Benny Lewis sui suoi metodi di apprendimento delle lingue e sull'importanza di commettere errori English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17：ベニー・ルイス、自身の言語学習方法と間違いを犯すことの重要性を語る English LingQ 2.0 팟캐스트 #17: 베니 루이스가 말하는 언어 학습 방법과 실수의 중요성 Angielski LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17: Benny Lewis o swoich metodach nauki języków i znaczeniu popełniania błędów Podcast LingQ 2.0 Inglês #17: Benny Lewis sobre os seus métodos de aprendizagem de línguas e a importância de cometer erros Английский LingQ 2.0 Подкаст #17: Бенни Льюис о своих методах изучения языка и важности совершения ошибок English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #17: Benny Lewis Dil Öğrenme Yöntemleri ve Hata Yapmanın Önemi Üzerine Подкаст English LingQ 2.0 #17: Бенні Льюїс про свої методи вивчення мови та важливість помилок 英语 LingQ 2.0 播客 #17：Benny Lewis 谈他的语言学习方法和犯错误的重要性 英語 LingQ 2.0 播客 #17：Benny Lewis 談他的語言學習方法和犯錯的重要性

Elle: Hello everyone and welcome to the LingQ podcast with me Elle. With LingQ, you can learn a new language from content you love by turning anything into a language lesson: movies, TV shows, blog posts, news articles, anime, whatever you want. Mit LingQ kannst du eine neue Sprache anhand von Inhalten lernen, die du liebst, indem du alles in eine Sprachlektion verwandelst: Filme, Fernsehsendungen, Blogbeiträge, Nachrichtenartikel, Anime, was immer du willst. Con LingQ, puedes aprender un nuevo idioma a partir de contenidos que te encantan convirtiendo cualquier cosa en una lección de idiomas: películas, programas de televisión, entradas de blog, artículos de noticias, anime, lo que quieras. Remember to like this episode and follow or subscribe to the podcast from whichever platform you're listening on.

If you're learning English, you can find this episode as a lesson on LingQ in the description.

I am very excited to have a special guest on. He started the Fluent in Three Months blog. He is also a YouTuber and an author, author of the book Fluent in Three Months, and also the Language Hacking series available for French, German, Spanish and Italian. También es YouTuber y escritor, autor del libro Fluent in Three Months, y también de la serie Language Hacking disponible para francés, alemán, español e italiano. Uh, I am joined today by Benny Lewis, AKA Benny, the Irish Polyglot.

Hi, Benny. How are you?

Benny: I'm very good. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. Thanks.

Elle: Excellent. Thank you for coming on. Really appreciate it. So, um, to start off, tell us where you are in the world right now. بنابراین ، هوم ، برای شروع ، به ما بگویید که اکنون در کجای جهان هستید. You're not in New York anymore, right?

Benny: Yeah. I currently live in Austin, Texas.

Elle: Wow. Okay. And how's it going? I've heard. It's great, uh, the nightlife... I mean, I'm sure you're not enjoying much of the light live right now, unfortunately, but food, music, I hear it's a great city. Are you enjoying it?

It's interesting

Benny: just because this has become the new Silicon Valley of the States. It's got a lot of, uh, online entrepreneurs and creative types and such. Tiene un montón de, eh, empresarios en línea y tipos creativos y tal.

So that's kind of the main reason I wanted to move here was to network with people like myself who are trying to make a difference online.

Elle: Oh, cool. I didn't know that about Austin actually. That's very cool. Um, so I wanted to just tell you first off that when I told some family members that I was interviewing you this week, Um, así que quería decirte en primer lugar que cuando le dije a algunos miembros de la familia que te iba a entrevistar esta semana,

they were like, "Oh, Oh, even I know who that is." So congratulations. I guess I'm kind of bringing language learning to the mainstream. حدس می زنم من به نوعی یادگیری زبان را به جریان اصلی وارد کرده ام. Um, uh, I've been following you from many years ago now and, uh, I think what really resonates about your story is that you, like many of us, didn't enjoy or didn't get much out of studying languages at school. Euh, euh, je vous suis depuis de nombreuses années maintenant et, euh, je pense que ce qui résonne vraiment dans votre histoire, c'est que vous, comme beaucoup d'entre nous, n'avez pas aimé ou n'avez pas tiré grand-chose de l'étude des langues à l'école.

Um, is it right that you studied, is it German and Gaelic? Um, ¿es correcto que usted estudió, es alemán y gaélico? Irish Gaelic in high school.

Benny: That's Right.

Elle: And so when you left high school, you weren't really able to converse in those languages?

Benny: No, unfortunately the approach I had in school didn't work.

Elle: Yeah. For a lot of us to have the same experience. Um, so you're intro to being able to actually learn a language to fluency came after college with Spanish, right? Um, así que tu introducción a ser capaz de aprender un idioma con fluidez vino después de la universidad con el español, ¿verdad? هوم ، پس شما در حال آموختن این هستید که در واقع می توانید زبان تسلط را یاد بگیرید بعد از دانشگاه با اسپانیایی آمد ، درست است؟

Benny: Yeah. I moved to Spain. The first six months were not a success for me. I did what a lot of people in my situation do, and just gravitated towards other English speakers. Hice lo que hacen muchas personas en mi situación y me acerqué a otros angloparlantes. So I always tell people that moving to the country doesn't actually solve your problems when it comes to language learning. C'est pourquoi je dis toujours aux gens que le fait de s'installer à la campagne ne résout pas vraiment les problèmes liés à l'apprentissage des langues.

Elle: Yep. Same thing happened for me when I lived in Japan for three years, I did some study, but yeah, it, it happens right. La même chose s'est produite pour moi lorsque j'ai vécu au Japon pendant trois ans, j'ai fait des études, mais oui, c'est ce qui se passe. You do, you know, it's the easy route, the people who speak English, you kind of do make friends with. Lo haces, ya sabes, es la ruta fácil, la gente que habla inglés, con la que te haces amigo. C'est le chemin le plus facile, les gens qui parlent anglais, avec qui on se fait des amis. So what changed then? Qu'est-ce qui a changé alors ? So you went to Spain, uh, weren't able to learn a language, uh, but it was the first language that you learned to fluency. Vous êtes donc allé en Espagne, vous n'avez pas pu apprendre une langue, mais c'est la première langue que vous avez apprise couramment.

So what, what happened?

Benny: So what happened was, I think at first, when I thought maybe living in Spain would just magically solved my problem, when I realized that wasn't happening, I was tempted to return back to the idea that I'm just not naturally talented in languages and it's just my destiny to never speak, you know, another language. Benny : Ce qui s'est passé, c'est qu'au début, je pensais que vivre en Espagne résoudrait mon problème comme par magie, et quand j'ai réalisé que ce n'était pas le cas, j'ai été tenté de revenir à l'idée que je n'étais pas naturellement doué pour les langues et que mon destin était de ne jamais parler, vous savez, une autre langue.

I was holding onto that for a while. مدتی آن را نگه داشتم. Je m'y suis accroché pendant un certain temps. Even if I. Was doing a few things, like I was going to group classes. Même si je faisais certaines choses, comme aller à des cours collectifs. I thought maybe if I would read a book with a dictionary that might help. Pensé que tal vez si leía un libro con diccionario podría ayudarme. Je me suis dit que je pourrais peut-être lire un livre avec un dictionnaire, ce qui m'aiderait. And I'd like, you know, just looking up one word at a time without really trying to appreciate the reading experience. Y me gustaría, ya sabes, buscar una palabra cada vez sin intentar realmente apreciar la experiencia de la lectura. Et j'aimerais, vous savez, me contenter de chercher un mot à la fois sans vraiment essayer d'apprécier l'expérience de la lecture. And like, I tried a lot of different things, which didn't bring me any success. E intenté muchas cosas diferentes, que no me trajeron ningún éxito. و مانند این ، من چیزهای مختلفی را امتحان کردم که هیچ موفقیتی برایم به همراه نداشت.

But what was interesting for me was I was part of this exchange program for engineers. Pero lo interesante para mí era que formaba parte de este programa de intercambio para ingenieros. Mais ce qui était intéressant pour moi, c'est que je faisais partie de ce programme d'échange pour ingénieurs. Um, um, there were, I, I was there for a very long time and I kept seeing other people from multiple countries arriving, uh, not having any Spanish initially, but then after a few weeks or a few months, they would start speaking. Um, um, había, yo, yo estuve allí durante mucho tiempo y seguía viendo a otras personas de múltiples países que llegaban, uh, sin tener nada de español al principio, pero luego, después de unas semanas o unos meses, empezaban a hablar. Hum, hum, il y avait, je, j'étais là pendant très longtemps et je continuais à voir d'autres personnes de plusieurs pays arriver, euh, ne parlant pas espagnol au départ, mais après quelques semaines ou quelques mois, ils commençaient à parler.

And so it really challenged my belief that, you know, Oh, I'm an engineer, so I'm a technically minded person. Y eso realmente desafió mi creencia de que, ya sabes, soy ingeniero, así que soy una persona de mentalidad técnica. Et cela a vraiment remis en question ma croyance selon laquelle, vous savez, Oh, je suis un ingénieur, donc je suis une personne à l'esprit technique. And if there's some left-brain right-brain stuff happening, then that's the reason I can't speak the language. Y si hay algo de cerebro izquierdo-cerebro derecho, entonces esa es la razón por la que no puedo hablar el idioma. Et s'il se passe quelque chose entre le cerveau gauche et le cerveau droit, alors c'est la raison pour laquelle je ne peux pas parler la langue. And I kept seeing evidence to the contrary of new arrivals who arrived with no Spanish, but then eventually became to, um, they eventually developed the ability to have conversations. Y yo seguía viendo pruebas de lo contrario, de recién llegados que llegaban sin saber español, pero que con el tiempo se convertían en... con el tiempo desarrollaban la capacidad de mantener conversaciones. Et je n'ai cessé de voir des preuves du contraire, des nouveaux arrivants qui ne parlaient pas l'espagnol, mais qui ont fini par acquérir la capacité de tenir des conversations.

So. That challenged me. Cela m'a interpellé. And I would ask them, how are you doing this? Et je leur demandais : comment faites-vous ? What's your secret? Quel est votre secret ? And I think when we first get into languages, we all want to know what that secret is, like is there one specific course or the one trick that you do that will solve all your problems? Y creo que cuando nos iniciamos en los idiomas, todos queremos saber cuál es ese secreto, si existe un curso específico o un truco que resuelva todos nuestros problemas. Et je pense que lorsque nous commençons à parler des langues, nous voulons tous savoir quel est ce secret, comme s'il y avait un cours spécifique ou un truc que vous faites et qui résoudra tous vos problèmes. And I wanted to hear that. I imagined they would tell me something like when I sleep, I have this audio playing in the background and magically fluent because of that. J'imaginais qu'ils me diraient quelque chose comme : quand je dors, j'ai ce son qui passe en arrière-plan et je parle couramment comme par magie grâce à cela.

Um, it took a while for it to really sink in that what was different was that they were truly using the language. Tardé un tiempo en darme cuenta de que lo que era diferente era que utilizaban la lengua de verdad. Il a fallu un certain temps pour comprendre que ce qui était différent, c'était qu'ils utilisaient vraiment la langue. I was just studying the language. Je ne faisais qu'étudier la langue. I wasn't having any real experiences in it. Je n'avais pas d'expérience réelle dans ce domaine. I would study it and then I would fail inusing it in any kind of social situation. Lo estudiaba y luego fracasaba al utilizarlo en cualquier tipo de situación social. Je l'étudiais et je n'arrivais pas à l'utiliser dans n'importe quelle situation sociale. Ik zou het bestuderen en dan zou ik het niet gebruiken in welke sociale situatie dan ook. And so that kind of developed the philosophy I've had ever since then of if I want to truly use the language and, uh, uh, you know, there are different techniques, obviously with language learning, it depends on your goals. C'est ainsi que s'est développée la philosophie que j'ai toujours eue depuis : si je veux vraiment utiliser la langue et, euh, euh, vous savez, il y a différentes techniques, évidemment avec l'apprentissage des langues, cela dépend de vos objectifs.

And my goal is always the purely spoken focus at the beginning stages. Y mi objetivo es siempre el enfoque puramente hablado en las fases iniciales. Et mon objectif est toujours l'objectif purement oral dans les premières étapes. И на начальных этапах моей целью всегда является исключительно разговорная речь. So I have to speak from day one. Je dois donc m'exprimer dès le premier jour. And that's what changed six months into that time in Spain, I tried an experiment where outside of my work, because I was an English teacher outside of that work, I would not speak a single word of English. Y eso es lo que cambió a los seis meses de estar en España, intenté un experimento en el que fuera de mi trabajo, porque era profesora de inglés fuera de ese trabajo, no hablaba ni una sola palabra de inglés. C'est ce qui a changé six mois après mon arrivée en Espagne. J'ai tenté une expérience : en dehors de mon travail, parce que j'étais professeur d'anglais en dehors de mon travail, je ne parlais pas un seul mot d'anglais.

And it was a difficult process, but that showed me that maybe I can use some basic Spanish and I could start initially communicating with people. Ce fut un processus difficile, mais cela m'a montré que je pouvais peut-être utiliser des rudiments d'espagnol et que je pouvais commencer à communiquer avec les gens. And that gave me the confidence to then move forward with this broken Spanish. Y eso me dio confianza para seguir adelante con este español roto. Cela m'a donné la confiance nécessaire pour aller de l'avant avec cet espagnol brisé. And to truly use it as a means of communication and to develop it with time while I continue to live there. Y utilizarlo de verdad como medio de comunicación y desarrollarlo con el tiempo mientras sigo viviendo allí. Et de l'utiliser vraiment comme moyen de communication et de le développer avec le temps tout en continuant à y vivre.

And since then, I've kind of expanded on that approach with other languages where I truly try to speak it as soon as I can. Y desde entonces, he ampliado ese enfoque con otros idiomas en los que intento hablarlos lo antes posible. Depuis, j'ai élargi cette approche à d'autres langues que j'essaie vraiment de parler dès que je le peux. And to immerse myself in the language, even digitally immersing myself in the language is a completely different experience to more academic, purely study based approach. Et s'immerger dans la langue, même numériquement, est une expérience complètement différente d'une approche plus académique, purement basée sur l'étude. So a complete mindset change, essentially.

Elle: Okay. And, and so Spanish then was your first language outside of English that you learned to fluency, and then you, uh, what other languages then did you go on to, uh, to study?

Benny: I would have learned Spanish I want to say, like, I didn't take any official, uh, examinations of my levels or anything, but my best guess would be maybe at a B1 level. Benny: Habría aprendido español quiero decir, como, no tomé ningún oficial, eh, exámenes de mis niveles o algo así, pero mi mejor conjetura sería tal vez en un nivel B1. Benny : J'aurais appris l'espagnol, je veux dire, je n'ai pas passé d'examen officiel, euh, de mes niveaux ou quoi que ce soit d'autre, mais je dirais que c'est peut-être un niveau B1.

Um, lower intermediate. Мм, нижний промежуточный. And then I went on to live in Italy and I learned Italian probably to about the same, B1 level and pretty much replaced my Spanish. Luego me fui a vivir a Italia y aprendí italiano más o menos al mismo nivel, B1, y prácticamente sustituí mi español. So I was kind of starting to forget my Spanish. And then I moved on to live in France for an entire year. J'ai ensuite vécu en France pendant une année entière. And, uh, I reached, uh, definitely reached B2 because I had my first

experience sitting one of the European common framework exams. experiencia en uno de los exámenes del marco común europeo. And I, I passed the B2 exam, uh, a little bit into my time in France, but again, I was forgetting my other languages. Y yo, yo pasé el examen B2, uh, un poco en mi tiempo en Francia, pero de nuevo, me estaba olvidando de mis otros idiomas. J'ai passé l'examen B2 un peu après mon arrivée en France, mais j'oubliais mes autres langues. So it was, um, that initial process was just going from one language to the other and then essentially replacing it in my brain. El proceso inicial consistió en pasar de un idioma a otro y sustituirlo en mi cerebro. Le processus initial a donc consisté à passer d'une langue à l'autre et à la remplacer dans mon cerveau.

And what changed was after France, I went to Brazil and I had a very different approach to, uh, the language in Brazil. I wanted to both learn Portuguese while also actively trying to use my other languages. And I would take advantage of living in a touristy place like Florianópolis, which had a lot of tourists from Argentina, so I could speak Spanish with them.

And then I would have occasional visits from people from France and I could try to switch into French. And that was my initial true beginnings of becoming a polyglot and using the languages I had already gotten to a certain level, but not, not really pushed too much forward. Y esos fueron mis verdaderos comienzos iniciales de convertirme en políglota y utilizar los idiomas que ya había llegado a un cierto nivel, pero no, realmente no había avanzado demasiado. C'est ainsi que j'ai commencé à devenir polyglotte et à utiliser les langues que j'avais déjà acquises à un certain niveau, mais sans vraiment aller plus loin. And then after that experience with Portuguese, I went on to live in other countries and got my, my Spanish level up a much greater notch. Après cette expérience avec le portugais, je suis allée vivre dans d'autres pays et j'ai amélioré mon niveau d'espagnol.

And I was able to start working, uh, as a, as an engineer and eventually as a professional translator for these European languages. Et j'ai pu commencer à travailler, euh, en tant qu'ingénieur et finalement en tant que traducteur professionnel pour ces langues européennes. And, um, I eventually started the blog based on that.

Elle: Excellent. Wow. Um, so you say your strategy or method is very much speak from day one and also have, uh, like a willingness to make mistakes. Hum, donc vous dites que votre stratégie ou méthode est très parlante dès le premier jour et que vous avez aussi, euh, une volonté de faire des erreurs.

I wonder if you have any, any advice, I find that the most difficult probably... and it's one thing to know that you have to, that you should be willing to make mistakes and then, you know, to be, to try to move on afterwards. Je me demande si vous avez des conseils, je trouve que le plus difficile est probablement... et c'est une chose de savoir que vous devez, que vous devriez être prêt à faire des erreurs et ensuite, vous savez, d'être, d'essayer d'aller de l'avant après. But it's, it's tough. Mais c'est difficile. I find, you know, cause it does, it does knock your confidence a bit. Me parece, ya sabes, porque lo hace, golpea tu confianza un poco. Je trouve, vous savez, parce que c'est le cas, que cela met un peu à mal votre confiance en vous.

Do you have any advice for anyone who is struggling with that coming back after, yeah, making those mistakes. Avez-vous des conseils à donner à ceux qui ont du mal à revenir après avoir commis ces erreurs ?

Benny: Yeah, it's tricky because one thing I've noticed with a lot of language learners is a lot of them go into this with a very perfectionist mindset. And they imagine the goal is to speak the languages as correctly as possible.

And I think ultimately that can be the goal. Like if you want to sit a C2 exam or something, then you know, maybe a few years from now, then speaking the language with next to no mistakes can be something you can aspire to. Por ejemplo, si quieres presentarte a un examen C2 o algo así, dentro de unos años podrás aspirar a hablar el idioma sin apenas cometer errores. Par exemple, si vous voulez passer un examen C2 ou autre, alors vous savez, peut-être dans quelques années, vous pourrez aspirer à parler la langue sans faire de fautes. But as a beginner learner, I, I found that I've turned that on its head and I've actually intentionally had my goal make 200 mistakes today in the language. Pero como estudiante principiante, me he dado cuenta de que le he dado la vuelta a la tortilla y he hecho que mi objetivo sea cometer 200 errores hoy en el idioma. Mais en tant qu'apprenant débutant, je me suis rendu compte que j'avais renversé la situation et que j'avais intentionnellement fait en sorte que mon objectif soit de faire 200 erreurs aujourd'hui dans la langue.

And that changes things a lot because if, if I make a mistake, like if I'm having a Spanish lesson with you and then I, I, I use el instead of la, ma mess up the, um, the, the gender of a noun, then you could think of that as this is me failing. Y eso cambia mucho las cosas porque si, si cometo un error, como si estoy teniendo una lección de español con usted y luego yo, yo, yo uso el en lugar de la, ma lío el, um, el, el género de un sustantivo, entonces usted podría pensar en eso como este soy yo fallando. Et cela change beaucoup de choses parce que si, si je fais une erreur, comme si j'avais une leçon d'espagnol avec vous et que je, je, j'utilise el au lieu de la, je me trompe sur le, euh, le, le genre d'un nom, alors vous pourriez penser que c'est moi qui échoue. This is another reason why I shouldn't be speaking Spanish in the first place. C'est une autre raison pour laquelle je ne devrais pas parler espagnol. I made this mistake. J'ai commis cette erreur.

My Spanish is bad. That's one way of looking at it and that can be very demotivating. Esa es una forma de verlo y puede ser muy desmotivadora. C'est une façon de voir les choses et cela peut être très démotivant. You have so, so much evidence as a beginner, there's so much that you don't know that almost every utterance you'll make in the language, you'll use the wrong word, you'll mess up your grammar or something along those lines. En tant que débutant, vous avez tellement de preuves, il y a tellement de choses que vous ne savez pas que presque chaque fois que vous prononcerez un mot dans la langue, vous utiliserez le mauvais mot, vous ferez une erreur de grammaire ou quelque chose de ce genre.

It's just more and more and more evidence that you're not ready to use this language. Ce n'est qu'une preuve de plus en plus évidente que vous n'êtes pas prêts à utiliser cette langue. So I turned that on its head and I just decide at the, as a beginner learner, my, my approach, I like it to be dynamic. J'ai donc renversé la situation et j'ai décidé, en tant qu'apprenant débutant, que mon approche devait être dynamique. I. It, it evolves. I. Elle, elle évolue. It's very different when I'm an intermediate learner, but as a beginner learner, my goal is to make as many mistakes as possible. C'est très différent lorsque je suis un apprenant intermédiaire, mais en tant qu'apprenant débutant, mon objectif est de faire autant d'erreurs que possible.

And that completely transforms the entire experience because when I make that kind of mistake where I'm using the wrong grammatical gender, or I don't use exactly the right word order or whatever it might be. Et cela transforme complètement l'expérience, car lorsque je fais ce genre d'erreur, que j'utilise le mauvais genre grammatical, ou que je n'utilise pas exactement le bon ordre des mots, ou quoi que ce soit d'autre, j'ai l'impression d'être en train de faire une erreur de grammaire. Then, rather than that, reflecting on the fact that I'm failing at this project, I'm actually succeeding, uh, genuinely trying to use the language as a means of communication. Entonces, en lugar de eso, reflexionando sobre el hecho de que estoy fracasando en este proyecto, en realidad estoy teniendo éxito, eh, realmente tratando de utilizar el lenguaje como un medio de comunicación. Puis, plutôt que de réfléchir au fait que j'échoue dans ce projet, je réussis en fait, euh, en essayant vraiment d'utiliser la langue comme moyen de communication.

And the goal should not be, as a beginner learner the goal should not be to produce perfect utterances of your, your target language. It should be communicating in the language. And this is why the likes of if I'm, especially if I'm using the language in the country, for instance, and I need to ask directions, I think me saying the local language equivalent of "supermarket, where?" C'est pourquoi, si j'utilise la langue dans le pays, par exemple, et que je dois demander mon chemin, je pense que je dirai l'équivalent dans la langue locale de "supermarché, où ?".

Is absolutely acceptable. That that's missing the verb, the it's missing so many things, uh, you know, technically, maybe the right way to say it is. Il manque le verbe, il manque tellement de choses, euh, vous savez, techniquement, peut-être que la bonne façon de le dire est. "Excuse me, kind, sir. "Excusez-moi, monsieur. Could you direct me to the nearest supermarket?" And, and that, that could be maybe something you would aspire to later, but so many people they think, because I can't say that, "excuse me, kind, sir..." Et, et cela, cela pourrait être quelque chose à laquelle vous aspireriez plus tard, mais tant de gens pensent, parce que je ne peux pas dire cela, "excusez-moi, monsieur, monsieur..."

a long phrase, I shouldn't dare speak the language, but realistically I, um, and this for me is, uh, as someone coming from like a background in mathematics where things are just right or wrong. una frase larga, no debería atreverme a hablar el idioma, pero siendo realistas yo, um, y esto para mí es, uh, como alguien que viene de como un fondo en matemáticas donde las cosas son sólo correcto o incorrecto. Like it's one or the other with languages. I don't look at it that way. Je ne vois pas les choses de cette manière. It's not that your "supermarket where?" phrase is, is a failure because it succeeds in you expressing that goal that you want to communicate something and you can try to get the gist of what they say. frase es, es un fracaso porque logra que expreses ese objetivo de que quieres comunicar algo y puedes intentar captar lo esencial de lo que dicen.

You're not going to understand everything. Vous ne comprendrez pas tout. If you understand just a couple of the key words. Then communication can happen. And this is one of the biggest lessons that I've learned. And I know people with anxiety as they get into languages that can really feel like, you know, ah, I'm such a failure. Conozco a gente con ansiedad que, cuando aprende idiomas, se siente fracasada. Like I don't know how to say anything.

And I feel the same way. Even after learning many languages as I start a new language, I can feel like such a failure when I'm trying to speak it in a language lesson. And I just accept that this is a part of the process. Me hesitating, me using the wrong words, the grammar, not being eloquent, all of that has to happen for a beginner, it's unavoidable.

So if you embrace that and just think to yourself, get, you know, get these mistakes out of your system, the more you practice, the faster you're, you're going to be making these mistakes, these mistakes less frequently. Así que si lo aceptas y piensas, ya sabes, saca estos errores de tu sistema, cuanto más practiques, más rápido cometerás estos errores, con menos frecuencia.

Elle: Hmm. That's excellent advice. And is that still then something you say embrace it, is that still something, when you approach a new language now you still have that nagging thing or is it like, Nope, Cuando te acercas a un nuevo idioma, ¿sigues teniendo esa sensación de fastidio o es algo así como "no"? E isso ainda é algo que se diz abraçar, ainda é algo que, quando se aborda uma nova língua, ainda se tem esse incómodo ou é como, "Não, И все еще ли это то, что вы говорите "примите это", все еще ли это что-то, когда вы подходите к новому языку сейчас, у вас все еще есть эта ноющая вещь или это как, неа,

I know that I'm going to make, like you said, however many mistakes, get them out, or is it still something that is, uh, those fears are still there? Sé que voy a cometer, como usted dijo, por muchos errores, sacarlos, o es todavía algo que es, eh, esos temores siguen ahí?

Benny: They're they're still like, I still have hesitations. I still have moments when I'm about to start a call with a native speaker. Um, I start second guessing myself and thinking, you know, maybe I should cancel this call.

I don't feel like I'm ready. And I didn't study enough, uh, um, since my last call. So I still have those doubts. I'm, I'm better now than I was 20 years ago before I got into language learning at, uh, pushing through those doubts. Ahora soy mejor que hace 20 años, antes de empezar a aprender idiomas, para superar esas dudas. But they're always there. There's always that lack of confidence and like, you know, should I really be doing this?

But I'm definitely better oatit now. Но теперь я определенно лучше отираюсь. So the languages I've learned since then, like have, um, become an easier process for me as a result of that.

Elle: I think listeners would like to hear that someone who has learned so many languages can still feel that way. So it's okay. We can, we can do this. Um, so are there any languages that you've found are the ones that, you know, that you found particularly difficult or are there even any languages that you started to study and then were like, Whoa, I'm not ready for this or put it on the back burner. ¿Hay algún idioma que te haya resultado especialmente difícil o hay algún idioma que empezaste a estudiar y luego dijiste: "Vaya, no estoy preparado para esto", o lo dejaste en segundo plano?

Benny: It's, it's a very interesting question. And a lot of people are always curious, you know, what's the hardest language you've ever learned. And I have a completely different philosophy when I look at my languages like this, and I know from a linguistic perspective or a theoretical perspective, it can be interesting.

To put two languages side by side and say, well, the grammar in this language is more complicated or this language has tones, therefore it's harder. And that, that whole line of discussion has just never been interesting for me because I don't find it to be a useful concept to think about how difficult languages are. Y toda esa línea de discusión nunca me ha resultado interesante porque no me parece un concepto útil pensar en lo difíciles que son las lenguas.

So as an example, when I took on Mandarin, which I eventually got to lower intermediate stage when I took on Mandarin. Por ejemplo, cuando aprendí mandarín, llegué al nivel intermedio bajo. Um, a lot of people told me, well this is one of the hardest languages in the world. And I didn't want to hear that because that's not useful to me. This is just forms of discouragement and it doesn't necessarily mean I want to plug my ears and go LA LA LA.

I don't want to hear it, because there are, there are certain things that, uh, people can warn me about that can be very helpful. Uh, to know ahead of time when I'm getting into a language that may pose more of a challenge. Para saber de antemano cuándo me meto en un idioma que puede suponer un reto mayor. Чтобы знать заранее, когда я начинаю изучать язык, который может представлять большую сложность. But what I wanted to know was why is it easy? And this is actually something I try to do when I begin any language.

If I, um, I've written blog posts, why Hungarian is easy, why Chinese is easy, which are so strange for a lot of the language community, because there's this association that you have to keep saying this language is hard and here's why on a, in a way, part of it is bragging rights. Si he escrito entradas en el blog sobre por qué el húngaro es fácil o por qué el chino es fácil, que son tan extrañas para gran parte de la comunidad lingüística, es porque existe esta asociación de que tienes que seguir diciendo que este idioma es difícil y por qué, en cierto modo, en parte es un derecho a presumir. You know, if you have successfully learned the language, it's good for your ego Ya sabes, si has aprendido con éxito el idioma, es bueno para tu ego

if the world thinks it's a hard language, because then everyone thinks you're smart. And so I, I understand that, you know, if, if somebody successfully learns Mandarin, then it's good for them. If everybody says it's the hardest language in the world, But realistically, um, whenever I try to learn a new language, I I'm a much more practical person, so I'm not actually that passionate really about language learning the process of language learning Si todo el mundo dice que es el idioma más difícil del mundo, Pero siendo realistas, um, cada vez que trato de aprender un nuevo idioma, Yo soy una persona mucho más práctica, así que no estoy realmente tan apasionado realmente sobre el aprendizaje de idiomas el proceso de aprendizaje de idiomas.

isn't what interests me. It's more the, I see a language as a tool or a means to an end, to open up this door to allow me to communicate with another culture. So because of that, I don't put a language on a pedestal necessarily. 因此，因此，我不必将语言放在基座上。 So that's why it's something like, well, this language is harder than that is just not useful for me. Así que por eso es algo así como, bueno, este lenguaje es más difícil que simplemente no es útil para mí.

I care more about how can I advance my learning experience faster. And then on top of that, there's a lot of things that people don't consider outside of the linguistics sphere for why a language is hard or easy. Uh, I always think back when I was in Spain and the friend of mine was learning both French and Japanese and of course, Spanish and French are in the same language family. Siempre me acuerdo de cuando estaba en España y un amigo mío estaba aprendiendo francés y japonés y, claro, el español y el francés son de la misma familia lingüística.

So I presumably I said to him, well, obviously French is easier for you. And he said, no, no, Japanese is easier for me. And at first I was like, how, how is that even possible? Because you know, all the cognates and like I had all these arguments and he said, well, I was forced to learn French in school and I don't find it interesting.

Whereas I think Japanese girls are cute and I really liked the look of the language and I would love to move to Japan one day and these reasons are actually much more important than, it's, it's why linguistically yeah, you can put Japanese next to Spanish and French next to Spanish and give a very reasonable argument for why French is easier Mientras que creo que las chicas japonesas son guapas y me gusta mucho el aspecto del idioma y me encantaría mudarme a Japón algún día y estas razones son en realidad mucho más importantes que, es, es por qué lingüísticamente sí, puedes poner el japonés al lado del español y el francés al lado del español y dar un argumento muy razonable de por qué el francés es más fácil

and Japanese is harder. But for, for an individual, the passion that they have for the language is going to completely transform its difficulty and how they, we use the language or they get exposure to the language. It's going to change that. So that's why ironically, something like Mandarin was easier for me to learn than Spanish because Spanish being the first language I truly tried, I didn't have the right attitude.

And so I went through it very slowly and I kept second guessing myself. Así que lo hice muy despacio y no dejaba de dudar de mí misma. I kept telling myself if people are going to laugh at you, people are going to be mad at you for speaking Spanish. And that slowed me down. Whereas Mandarin, I had enough experience, enough years with other languages, that I was a bit more confident to make those mistakes.

So I advanced a lot quicker, even though, you know, linguistically it's obviously a much further away language and a lot of people would very reasonably argue why it's harder, but it was easier for me because of this personal experience. That's, that's often overlooked when people think about language learning.

Hm. And is, uh, is Mandarin a language that you're still active in learning? Are you actively learning any languages right now or kind of maintaining, taking a break? Yeah. So generally I'm, I I'm all either in one mode or another, I'm either intensively learning one new language. Así que, por lo general, estoy en un modo u otro, o estoy aprendiendo intensivamente un nuevo idioma. And if I'm doing that, then I kind of have to pause my other languages. Y si lo hago, tengo que poner en pausa mis otros idiomas.

I know there's lots of potty gods who are very good at multitasking. Я знаю, что есть много горшечных богов, которые отлично справляются с многозадачностью. I'm not, I can't multitask. So I can only focus on one language if I'm truly pushing it up to a very, uh, very different, higher level to where it was before. Así que sólo puedo centrarme en un idioma si realmente lo estoy llevando a un nivel muy, muy diferente, superior al que tenía antes. Or I'm in maintenance mode where I'm essentially trying to keep all my languages at the level that they would have been when I stopped an intensive project. O estoy en modo de mantenimiento, en el que básicamente intento mantener todos mis idiomas al nivel que tendrían cuando dejé un proyecto intensivo.

So for a while, I was doing that with all my languages, including Mandarin. And then what happened was I went through some very difficult years and that's kind of knocked me off my tracks of maintaining that level of, of, uh, maintenance in my languages. Y entonces lo que pasó fue que pasé por unos años muy difíciles y eso me sacó de mi camino de mantener ese nivel de, de, eh, mantenimiento en mis idiomas. And now this year I'm reactivating that to, um, a much slower degree because my goal is maybe at the end of 2022, something along those lines to, to feel like I've reached the maintenance level in all the languages I had learned to high levels before, and then I'd be ready to take on a brand new project that I may in three months really intensively push it up.

So my Mandarin, I haven't gotten back to that one yet. Así que mi mandarín, no he vuelto a esa todavía. It was a, I'd say about six years ago, that was the language where at the drop of a hat, I could get into conversations with people, but like anything, if you don't keep up the work, you'll start to, it'll start to slip away from you. It was a, I'd say about six years ago, that was the language where at the drop of a hat, I could get into conversations with people, but like anything, if you don't keep up the work, you'll start to, it'll start to slip away from you. Hace unos seis años, era el lenguaje con el que podía entablar conversaciones con la gente, pero como todo, si no sigues trabajando, empezarás a perderlo. But fortunately it is among the languages that I'll be reactivating within the next year or two.

And I've already with that in mind, started to make like, a separate Instagram and Tik Tok accounts just in Mandarin, just so I can like upload videos in those languages. Cause that's one way that I enjoy my experience of using languages is making content online in them. So this is kind of, in the, um, the version into 2021, 2022 years,

uh, different to how I would upload YouTube videos. I'm already keeping that in mind and I'm getting better and better now at getting my momentum back with my languages.