×

We use cookies to help make LingQ better. By visiting the site, you agree to our cookie policy.


image

English LingQ 2.0 Podcast, English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #11: Interview with Matt Vs Japan

English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #11: Interview with Matt Vs Japan

Elle: This podcast is sponsored by LingQ. If you're learning English and want to study the transcript of this episode or any other episode, there's a link to the lesson on LingQ, l I N G Q in the description. LingQ is a language learning tool that allows you to turn anything in your target language, into a lesson.

Podcasts like this one, YouTube videos, Netflix shows, news articles, blog, posts, whatever it is you're into. One click on the link browser extension, and you have a language lesson to work through translating words and phrases you don't know.

Hi everyone. And welcome to the English LingQ podcast. Today I am joined by a special guest, Matt Vs Japan.

How are you, Matt?

Matt: I am doing pretty great. How about yourself?

Elle: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Thank you. And thank you for joining us. So for those listeners, viewers who don't know who you are, Matt versus Japan, tell us a little bit about your YouTube channel.

Matt: Yeah, well, so I guess the very short version of my origin story is when I was in high school, I decided that I wanted to learn Japanese and I wanted to get really, really good at it.

So I found a website called All Japanese All the Time. That inspired me to really dedicate my whole life to learning Japanese. Uh, so I did that for about five years, reached a pretty good level. Six months of those five years was spent in Japan, but all the rest was spent, uh, here in Portland, Oregon, where I am right now.

And after getting pretty good at Japanese in five years, I started a YouTube channel to kind of help other people who wanted to use the type of, kind of unorthodox methods that I used to get good at Japanese without being inside of Japan.

Elle: Hmm. Excellent. I have to say I, I used to live in Japan. I know a little, but not like you speak Japanese! I have to say I'm so impressed. You sound Japanese to me when I listened. It's it's crazy. And you seem to speak with such ease too. It's clear that you've put in many, many hours. Um, I wonder, so was it always Japanese for you? Like did you grow up interested in languages in general. Was it always a fascination with Japan and the Japanese language?

Matt: Actually for most of my life up until I got interested in Japanese languages were pretty much not on my radar at all. In fact, starting in middle school, I was forced to take Spanish classes. Well, actually I was forced to take a language class. I took Spanish by default because it was the easiest one and I was probably the worst kid in the class.

I'm pretty sure the teacher hated me because I was always goofing around and never paying attention. And I used to have this weird perverse pride, uh, where I would brag about how little I had learned, like, hey, I managed to get through this whole year and I don't even know what, you know, tango means or whatever.

So, uh, yeah, I was the opposite type of person. And in fact, there were some kids in, in my middle school and my high school who were really into anime, but I kind of viewed them as the uncool kids and I wanted to be a cool, popular kid. So I was like, oh no, I can't go anywhere near that. But, yeah. So then when I was in high school, actually it was freshman year of high school, ninth grade for people who don't live in America, uh, that I became interested in Japanese.

And for the first portion of that year of school, I was taking Spanish again, because you had to take a language in school and I was doing really awfully. And so then when I just had this epiphany that I'm really interested in Japanese, and I want, I want to do whatever I can to learn more about the language and culture.

I went to my Spanish teacher to ask her, to let me transfer to Japanese. And she was like, well, you can't even do Spanish. There's no way you're going to be able to do Japanese, it's way harder. But, uh, I convinced them to let me switch and yeah, that was it.

Elle: That's great that you had the opportunity. So there was Spanish, sorry. There was Japanese also in your high school. That's great.

Matt: Yeah, lucky in that regard.

Elle: Yeah, for sure. So you totally fell in love with the, I guess the culture of the language, decided to go full on. And then, so you said you were in Japan for six months at some point, was that after high school?

Matt: That was during high school. So about a year after I first became interested in Japanese, I took a three week trip to Japan with other people from my school.

It was kind of a program through my school. And that was really fun, really excited and made me even more convinced that I wanted to pursue Japanese. And then the next year after that, I applied for a study abroad program that I just found online and went to Japan during my junior year of high.

Elle: And whereabouts were you in Japan?

Matt: I was in Gunma prefecture, which is only an hour or two away from Tokyo, but it also doesn't really have anything interesting happening. So Japanese people, when they hear that I went to Gunam, they'll be like, why why'd you go to Gunma? But, uh, I had no say in the matter, that was just where the program sent me.

Elle: Right. And you just had a fantastic time, any stand out kind of memories or experiences for you?

Matt: Actually, I didn't have such a good time during my second trip to Japan. And it really, what happened was, well, a few things, first of all, the program that I went on was I, it was basically, or let me put it this way.

So when I went to Japan, I was going to a Japanese high school. And from the Japanese high school's, point of view, the purpose of having an American come and stay at their school was that it was going to aid the English studies of all the Japanese students there. So the school that I was sent to was very focused on having their students learn English.

So it wasn't really structured from, from the perspective of making the American have a good experience, because, you know, When I arrived in Japan, I didn't speak Japanese very well yet. So, uh, I couldn't understand any of the classes. Like they just threw me into the same classes that the Japanese people were taking.

So I was taking, you know, biology, physics, uh, math, all in Japanese. So it was complete jibberish and because the high school, uh, was a very, uh, it was a very serious school that was meant for students who wanted to go to a prestigious college. Most of the students were very serious about studying and, you know, weren't the most kind of like laid back type of people.

So they were kind of busy with their studies. Like my host brother would always come home from school and just study for multiple hours. And so, uh, and also they didn't speak English and I didn't speak Japanese. So we couldn't really communicate. So all of this kind of led to me having a pretty isolated experience.

And so that, half of it, I would say was not really my fault. But there are another component was that I was very focused on studying Japanese and I had a very kind of a limited view of what studying Japanese meant because I had been following the advice on this website that I mentioned before, alljapaneseallthetime.com, which talked about doing things like, uh, watching a lot of anime and reading a lot of books and creating a lot of flashcards.

And I just kind of felt like it was actually more efficient for me to learn from that type of media than from real life people. Because on media, you can pause, you can rewind, you can look things up more easily, whereas you can't do that with a real life person. So I kind of felt, yeah, that I'm better off just going to the library and reading books than trying to, you know, join a club and like play soccer with Japanese people.

And I think there was some truth to that from a pure language learning efficiency perspective, but also from another more obvious perspective. I probably would've, it would've been more of a, a net positive influence on my life if I just didn't focus so much on lung Japanese during the short period of time I had in Japan and instead focused on just experiencing the culture, connecting with people and broadening my worldview.

So if I could go back, I would've done it differently, but, um, Okay. That's uh, that's how things turned out. So yeah, I actually ended up coming, coming back to America earlier than originally planned. The program was supposed to be a 10 month program, but eventually just got so isolated and depressed that I decided I want to go home and be with my family.

So, yeah, that was an interesting turn of events in my personal little story, but I eventually just decided that I still felt some sort of deep connection to the Japanese culture and language. And I've come so far that I just want to keep on going with it, even though I had that kind of a nasty experience.

Elle: Yeah. Good for you. It just goes to show how powerful that connection was after having such a negative experience that you, you kept on and, are where you are today. So that's great. So you talk about, um, you previously you talked about having an unorthodox approach to learning Japanese and I, I guess you just spoke briefly on it just then, do you mean like using anime, which I guess is kind of not frowned upon, but it's a non traditional way. People might say, it's not the best way to learn Japanese because you know, you'll learn the wrong kind of Japanese, more colloquial kind of language. Um, so that was your main focus then when you started to study Japanese seriously?

Matt: Yeah, anime was definitely the main focus of what I was studying from, but in terms of what made my method unorthodox, I would say that it was really these two components of first of all, having very little formal structure.

So I basically learned the most common words and studied some basic grammar. But after that, I just dove into authentic content and I was learning things as they came up in the content without using something like a textbook or a teacher or something like that. So I was really learning in this kind of organic, chaotic way of taking things as, as they came up.

So that's one aspect to it. The other aspect of it, of the way I learned was that the emphasis is very strongly on input and comprehension in the beginning and not so much on speaking. So I was really just trying to get to the point where I could understand Japanese well before I was really concerned with trying to produce Japanese myself.

Elle: How long did you study before you started to speak? Do you remember?

Matt: It was around three years before I started speaking regularly. And a lot of that was just how the circumstances kind of played out because, well, I will say so early on when I had that six month period in Japan, obviously I was speaking a lot.

I was in Japan, but after I came back, Uh, I didn't speak for probably a year or two after that. And that was partially just because I was in America. I didn't have any Japanese friends, so there weren't really any opportunities to speak. And then around the three year mark, I, and by the way, the way that I'm counting my time, might be a little weird.

Cause the first two years I was just taking classes and not starting very seriously. And then two years then I started the all Japanese all the time period. So when I was three years into the all Japanese, all the time period, I transferred into a four year university where there was a lot of Japanese foreign exchange students.

And so that naturally gave me the opportunity to use my Japanese because suddenly I could kind of join this community of Japanese speakers. So I started speaking really regularly after that. And I found that at that time I could speak really naturally without a lot of effort, even though I hadn't really spoken since I was in Japan multiple years back and back then I could hardly speak at all.

So. Kind of was like, uh, all the input naturally led to that result of being able to use it myself.

Elle: Hmm. So what advice then if you had to boil it down. I know that's tough to do, what advice do you have for anyone who is because Japanese is known to be a really difficult language to learn. What advice do you have for anyone thinking about dabbling or starting to study Japanese?

Matt: I mean, it kind of depends on what the person's goals are because, you know, getting, if you want to get really good at Japanese, like to the point where you can just comfortably watch your favorite anime with no subtitles and it's not any extra work or you can go and have a meaningful conversation with a Japanese person about, uh, you know, any, any topic spontaneously, that is going to take multiple years of really committing yourself and dedicating yourself to study.

So for, for those people, I would say if your final goal is to get really good, then I think taking an approach of focusing on comprehension and getting really good at understanding the language before worrying about speaking is going to serve you really well. But if you're kind of, coming at it, as you know, it's kind of a hobby, something you do on the side.

It'd be cool if you could, you know, speak a few words here or there, when you take a vacation to Japan. You know, maybe you learn a couple of phrases that enrich your experience of anime, although you still have to use the subtitles, uh, in that case then, you know, taking a more maybe traditional approach where, you know, you, you learn something and then you try to practice using it or, you know, using an app or something or a normal textbook.

Will probably serve you well, because the thing about my approach is that the, the gains that you get are very delayed. You know, like I said, it took me three years before I could speak really well. When the, when that three-year point arrived, I could speak really well, much better than people who generally take a traditional approach.

Uh, but three years is a really long time to be waiting and fully dedicating yourself to this thing. So I'd say it's probably going to be helpful for people to think about what they're goals are starting off, because I think a lot of people don't really think about that.

Elle: Hmm, I agree with that for sure. Um, do you speak any other languages, or are you all about the Japanese? Do you remeber any Spanish from high school?

Matt: I don't remember any Spanish from high school, but I have been working on Mandarin, uh, on and off for a couple of years. But for the last couple of months, I've been more consistent with it. So that's, that's been pretty.

Elle: And how's that going? I guess you have the Kanji from Japanese to help you.

Matt: That definitely helps a lot. And, uh, overall, uh, it was, yeah, like I said, I was on and off for a couple of years because, you know, I'm very interested in Mandarin and I want to learn the language, but I don't necessarily want to dedicate my whole life to it like I did with Japanese. And because have always been a kind of all or nothing personality type, it's taken me a while to learn how to still do Chinese, without trying to do it all the time.

And it feels like just in the past year, I finally figured out how to do that. And so now things are going pretty smoothly. And it's, it's been a lot of fun. I still base my approach off the, the approach that I took for Japanese. So I'm not really worried about speaking. I'm mostly watching Chinese dramas with Chinese subtitles and as I go, I'll look words up and then I'll make flashcards juror to remember words.

And yeah, I'm kind of at the point now where I can watch a drama and follow the plot if there's Chinese subtitles, because you know, they, for a lot of people, the characters are probably one of the most difficult aspects of the language, but for me it makes it way easier cause I know them from Japanese. So with subtitles, I can understand pretty, pretty good amount, much less when it's, it's just listening, but...

but yeah, it's been a lot of fun.

Elle: Excellent. And so what is, uh, what's in the works for Matt Vs Japan in 2021? Anything interesting happening?

Matt: Yeah. Well, so right now I'm working on this project called Refold. We kind of launched a couple of months ago. So it's kind of just taking the method that I used to learn Japanese and kind of adding a more formal structure to it so that there is some structure within the chaos.

Cause like I said, my personal, uh, method of learning Japanese was very chaotic and organic. It was just consuming, whatever, whatever Japanese content I felt like consuming, learning, whatever came up. And it worked but I think for a lot of people, they feel, they feel very overwhelmed by just the. You know, Nebula nebulosity of this approach.

So we're creating a more structured kind of outline for how to learn organically through native content. And so we, when I say we it's, I'm doing this with my friend, Ethan, so it's the two of us mainly right now. And so we have a website up refold.la that has, um, uh, what we call a roadmap for taking this immersion style of, of learning and it breaks the language learning process down into four stages.

And the guide right now is what we call language agnostic. Meaning it's not for any specific language, it's just how to learn any language. And so we want to start partnering with people who have gotten to a really high level in various languages and creating kind of language specific guides for the same underlying

methodology that has specific resources and, and has a, you know, methodology for tackling challenges, unique to various languages. So hopefully, yeah, we'll, we'll have some of these language specific guides coming out, uh, later down this year.

Elle: Excellent. That sounds great. I think that's great because like you say it is... a lot of people I think could benefit from that, this kind of language learning, just cherry picking, but you know what you enjoy, but it is chaotic, like you say, and it takes a special, I think, kind of person maybe to stick with it. And so a lot of people would benefit from having structure to it. So...

Matt: yeah, like I think it's, it's definitely never going to be for everybody, but I think, yeah, we can broaden out the scope of what type of person it's going to work for by creating a more,

a structured approach to it and better instruction.

Elle: Excellent. Well, I look forward to checking it out. Um, thank you so much, Matt, for joining us today. It's been a pleasure.

Matt: Thanks so much for having me. It was fun.

Elle: Cheers And, uh, maybe we'll chat again soon.

Matt: Yeah. Anytime.

Elle: Bye. Cheers. Bye bye.


English LingQ 2.0 Podcast #11: Interview with Matt Vs Japan

Elle: This podcast is sponsored by LingQ. Elle:このポッドキャストはLingQが後援しています。 If you're learning English and want to study the transcript of this episode or any other episode, there's a link to the lesson on LingQ, l I N G Q in the description. 英語を学んでいて、このエピソードまたは他のエピソードのトランスクリプトを勉強したい場合は、説明にLingQ、lINGQのレッスンへのリンクがあります。 LingQ is a language learning tool that allows you to turn anything in your target language, into a lesson. LingQは、ターゲット言語のあらゆるものをレッスンに変えることができる言語学習ツールです。

Podcasts like this one, YouTube videos, Netflix shows, news articles, blog, posts, whatever it is you're into. このようなポッドキャスト、YouTubeビデオ、Netflix番組、ニュース記事、ブログ、投稿など、好きなものは何でも。 One click on the link browser extension, and you have a language lesson to work through translating words and phrases you don't know. リンクブラウザ拡張機能をワンクリックすると、知らない単語やフレーズを翻訳するための言語レッスンがあります。

Hi everyone. And welcome to the English LingQ podcast. Today I am joined by a special guest, Matt Vs Japan.

How are you, Matt?

Matt: I am doing pretty great. How about yourself?

Elle: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Thank you. And thank you for joining us. そして、ご参加いただきありがとうございます。 So for those listeners, viewers who don't know who you are, Matt versus Japan, tell us a little bit about your YouTube channel. ですから、あなたが誰であるかを知らないリスナー、マット対日本のために、あなたのYouTubeチャンネルについて少し教えてください。

Matt: Yeah, well, so I guess the very short version of my origin story is when I was in high school, I decided that I wanted to learn Japanese and I wanted to get really, really good at it. マット:ええ、そうですね、私のオリジンストーリーの非常に短いバージョンは、高校生のときだったと思います。私は日本語を学びたいと思い、本当に、本当に上手になりたいと思いました。

So I found a website called All Japanese All the Time. そこで、All Japanese All theTimeというウェブサイトを見つけました。 That inspired me to really dedicate my whole life to learning Japanese. Uh, so I did that for about five years, reached a pretty good level. Six months of those five years was spent in Japan, but all the rest was spent, uh, here in Portland, Oregon, where I am right now. この5年間のうち6か月は日本で過ごしましたが、残りはすべてオレゴン州ポートランドで過ごしました。

And after getting pretty good at Japanese in five years, I started a YouTube channel to kind of help other people who wanted to use the type of, kind of unorthodox methods that I used to get good at Japanese without being inside of Japan. そして、5年で日本語がかなり上手になった後、私はYouTubeチャンネルを始めて、日本にいなくても日本語が上手になったような、非正統的な方法を使いたいと思っている他の人々を助けました。

Elle: Hmm. Excellent. I have to say I, I used to live in Japan. I know a little, but not like you speak Japanese! 私は少し知っていますが、あなたが日本語を話すのは好きではありません! I have to say I'm so impressed. 私はとても感銘を受けたと言わなければなりません。 You sound Japanese to me when I listened. 私が聞いたとき、あなたは私に日本語を聞こえます。 It's it's crazy. それはクレイジーだ。 And you seem to speak with such ease too. そして、あなたもとても簡単に話すようです。 It's clear that you've put in many, many hours. あなたが何時間も何時間も費やしたことは明らかです。 Um, I wonder, so was it always Japanese for you? えーと、不思議ですが、いつも日本人でしたか? Like did you grow up interested in languages in general. あなたは一般的な言語に興味を持って育ちましたか? Was it always a fascination with Japan and the Japanese language? それはいつも日本と日本語に魅了されていましたか?

Matt: Actually for most of my life up until I got interested in Japanese languages were pretty much not on my radar at all. マット:実際、日本語に興味を持つようになるまでの私の人生のほとんどは、ほとんど気になりませんでした。 In fact, starting in middle school, I was forced to take Spanish classes. 実際、中学校からスペイン語の授業を受けることを余儀なくされました。 Well, actually I was forced to take a language class. I took Spanish by default because it was the easiest one and I was probably the worst kid in the class. スペイン語は最も簡単で、おそらくクラスで最悪の子供だったので、デフォルトでスペイン語を使用しました。

I'm pretty sure the teacher hated me because I was always goofing around and never paying attention. 私はいつもうろついていて、注意を払っていなかったので、先生は私を嫌っていたと確信しています。 And I used to have this weird perverse pride, uh, where I would brag about how little I had learned, like, hey, I managed to get through this whole year and I don't even know what, you know, tango means or whatever. そして、私はこの奇妙なひねくれたプライドを持っていました、ええと、私は私が学んだことがどれほど少ないか自慢していました、例えば、私はこの一年をなんとか乗り越えました、そして私はあなたが知っている、タンゴが何を意味するのかさえ知りませんなんでも。

So, uh, yeah, I was the opposite type of person. だから、ええと、ええ、私は反対のタイプの人でした。 And in fact, there were some kids in, in my middle school and my high school who were really into anime, but I kind of viewed them as the uncool kids and I wanted to be a cool, popular kid. 実は、中学や高校にはアニメ好きの子供が何人かいましたが、私は彼らをかっこいい子供と見なしていて、かっこよくて人気のある子供になりたいと思っていました。 So I was like, oh no, I can't go anywhere near that. だから私は、ああ、いや、その近くには行けないようなものでした。 But, yeah. So then when I was in high school, actually it was freshman year of high school, ninth grade for people who don't live in America, uh, that I became interested in Japanese. ですから、高校生の時、実は高校1年生で、アメリカに住んでいない人にとっては9年生で、日本語に興味を持つようになりました。

And for the first portion of that year of school, I was taking Spanish again, because you had to take a language in school and I was doing really awfully. そして、その年の最初の部分では、あなたが学校で言語をとらなければならなかったので、私は再びスペイン語を取りました、そして私は本当にひどいことをしていました。 And so then when I just had this epiphany that I'm really interested in Japanese, and I want, I want to do whatever I can to learn more about the language and culture. それで、私が日本語に本当に興味を持っているというこのエピファニーがあったとき、そして私が望むとき、私は言語と文化についてもっと学ぶためにできることは何でもしたいです。

I went to my Spanish teacher to ask her, to let me transfer to Japanese. 私はスペイン語の先生のところに行って、日本語に転校させてもらいました。 And she was like, well, you can't even do Spanish. そして、彼女は、まあ、あなたはスペイン語さえできないようなものでした。 There's no way you're going to be able to do Japanese, it's way harder. 日本語ができるようになる方法はありません、それはずっと難しいです。 But, uh, I convinced them to let me switch and yeah, that was it. しかし、ええと、私は彼らに私を切り替えさせるように説得しました、そしてええ、それはそれでした。

Elle: That's great that you had the opportunity. So there was Spanish, sorry. 申し訳ありませんが、スペイン語がありました。 There was Japanese also in your high school. That's great. それは素晴らしいことです。

Matt: Yeah, lucky in that regard. マット:ええ、その点では幸運です。

Elle: Yeah, for sure. So you totally fell in love with the, I guess the culture of the language, decided to go full on. だからあなたは完全に恋に落ちました、私は言語の文化を推測します、完全に行くことに決めました。 And then, so you said you were in Japan for six months at some point, was that after high school?

Matt: That was during high school. So about a year after I first became interested in Japanese, I took a three week trip to Japan with other people from my school. それで、日本語に興味を持ってから約1年後、学校の他の人たちと一緒に3週間日本に旅行しました。

It was kind of a program through my school. それは私の学校を通しての一種のプログラムでした。 And that was really fun, really excited and made me even more convinced that I wanted to pursue Japanese. そして、それは本当に楽しかったし、本当に興奮していて、私は日本語を追求したいとさらに確信しました。 And then the next year after that, I applied for a study abroad program that I just found online and went to Japan during my junior year of high. そしてその翌年、オンラインで見つけた留学プログラムに応募し、高校3年生の時に日本に行きました。

Elle: And whereabouts were you in Japan?

Matt: I was in Gunma prefecture, which is only an hour or two away from Tokyo, but it also doesn't really have anything interesting happening. マット:私は東京から1、2時間しか離れていない群馬県にいましたが、面白いことは何もありません。 So Japanese people, when they hear that I went to Gunam, they'll be like, why why'd you go to Gunma? だから日本人は、私が群馬に行ったと聞いたら、どうして群馬に行ったの? But, uh, I had no say in the matter, that was just where the program sent me. しかし、ええと、私はその問題について何も言いませんでした、それはプログラムが私を送ったところです。

Elle: Right. And you just had a fantastic time, any stand out kind of memories or experiences for you? そして、あなたは素晴らしい時間を過ごしました、あなたにとって傑出した種類の思い出や経験はありますか?

Matt: Actually, I didn't have such a good time during my second trip to Japan. マット:実は、2回目の日本旅行ではあまり楽しい時間を過ごしませんでした。 And it really, what happened was, well, a few things, first of all, the program that I went on was I, it was basically, or let me put it this way. そして、実際に起こったことは、まあ、まず第一に、私が行ったプログラムは私でした、それは基本的に、または私にそれをこのように言わせました。

So when I went to Japan, I was going to a Japanese high school. それで、日本に行ったとき、私は日本の高校に通っていました。 And from the Japanese high school's, point of view, the purpose of having an American come and stay at their school was that it was going to aid the English studies of all the Japanese students there. そして、日本の高校の観点から、アメリカ人を彼らの学校に来て滞在させる目的は、そこにいるすべての日本人学生の英語学習を助けることでした。 So the school that I was sent to was very focused on having their students learn English. ですから、私が派遣された学校は、生徒たちに英語を学ばせることに非常に重点を置いていました。

So it wasn't really structured from, from the perspective of making the American have a good experience, because, you know, When I arrived in Japan, I didn't speak Japanese very well yet. ですから、アメリカ人に良い経験をさせるという観点からは、あまり構造化されていませんでした。なぜなら、私が日本に到着したとき、私はまだ日本語をあまり上手に話せなかったからです。 So, uh, I couldn't understand any of the classes. それで、ええと、私はどのクラスも理解できませんでした。 Like they just threw me into the same classes that the Japanese people were taking. 彼らがちょうど日本人が受けていたのと同じクラスに私を投げ込んだように。

So I was taking, you know, biology, physics, uh, math, all in Japanese. だから私は生物学、物理学、ええと、数学、すべて日本語で取っていました。 So it was complete jibberish and because the high school, uh, was a very, uh, it was a very serious school that was meant for students who wanted to go to a prestigious college. それで、それは完全にぎこちないものでした、そして、高校は、ええと、非常に、ええと、それは一流の大学に行きたい学生のために意図された非常に深刻な学校でした。 Most of the students were very serious about studying and, you know, weren't the most kind of like laid back type of people. ほとんどの学生は勉強に真剣に取り組んでおり、ご存知のように、のんびりとしたタイプの人々のようなものではありませんでした。

So they were kind of busy with their studies. だから彼らは勉強で忙しかった。 Like my host brother would always come home from school and just study for multiple hours. 私のホストブラザーがいつも学校から家に帰って、ただ数時間勉強するように。 And so, uh, and also they didn't speak English and I didn't speak Japanese. それで、ええと、彼らは英語も話せませんでしたし、私は日本語も話せませんでした。 So we couldn't really communicate. だから私たちは本当にコミュニケーションをとることができませんでした。 So all of this kind of led to me having a pretty isolated experience. ですから、この種のすべてが私にかなり孤立した経験をさせることにつながりました。

And so that, half of it, I would say was not really my fault. そして、その半分は、私のせいではなかったと思います。 But there are another component was that I was very focused on studying Japanese and I had a very kind of a limited view of what studying Japanese meant because I had been following the advice on this website that I mentioned before, alljapaneseallthetime.com, which talked about doing things like, uh, watching a lot of anime and reading a lot of books and creating a lot of flashcards. しかし、もう一つの要素は、私が日本語の勉強に非常に集中していて、日本語を勉強することの意味について非常に限られた見方しかなかったということでした。ええと、たくさんのアニメを見たり、たくさんの本を読んだり、たくさんのフラッシュカードを作ったりすることについて。

And I just kind of felt like it was actually more efficient for me to learn from that type of media than from real life people. そして、実際の人々から学ぶよりも、そのタイプのメディアから学ぶほうが実際には効率的だと感じました。 Because on media, you can pause, you can rewind, you can look things up more easily, whereas you can't do that with a real life person. メディアでは、一時停止したり、巻き戻したり、物事をより簡単に調べたりすることができますが、実際の人ではそれを行うことはできません。 So I kind of felt, yeah, that I'm better off just going to the library and reading books than trying to, you know, join a club and like play soccer with Japanese people. ですから、クラブに参加して日本人とサッカーをするよりも、図書館に行って本を読むほうがいいと感じました。

And I think there was some truth to that from a pure language learning efficiency perspective, but also from another more obvious perspective. そして、純粋な言語学習効率の観点からだけでなく、別のより明白な観点からも、それにはいくつかの真実があったと思います。 I probably would've, it would've been more of a, a net positive influence on my life if I just didn't focus so much on lung Japanese during the short period of time I had in Japan and instead focused on just experiencing the culture, connecting with people and broadening my worldview. もし私が日本にいた短い期間に肺の日本人にあまり焦点を合わせず、代わりにただ経験することに焦点を合わせていたら、それは私の人生に正味のプラスの影響を与えたでしょう。文化、人とのつながり、そして私の世界観の広がり。

So if I could go back, I would've done it differently, but, um, Okay. だから私が戻ることができれば、私はそれを別の方法でやったでしょうが、ええと、わかりました。 That's uh, that's how things turned out. それはええと、それは物事がどのように判明したかです。 So yeah, I actually ended up coming, coming back to America earlier than originally planned. そうそう、私は実際に来て、当初の計画よりも早くアメリカに戻ってきました。 The program was supposed to be a 10 month program, but eventually just got so isolated and depressed that I decided I want to go home and be with my family. プログラムは10ヶ月の予定でしたが、やがて孤立して落ち込んでしまい、家に帰って家族と一緒にいたいと思いました。

So, yeah, that was an interesting turn of events in my personal little story, but I eventually just decided that I still felt some sort of deep connection to the Japanese culture and language. それで、ええ、それは私の個人的な小さな話の中で興味深い出来事でした、しかし私は結局、私がまだ日本の文化と言語とのある種の深いつながりを感じていると決めました。 And I've come so far that I just want to keep on going with it, even though I had that kind of a nasty experience. そして、そのような厄介な経験をしたにもかかわらず、私はそれを続けたいと思っているところまで来ました。

Elle: Yeah. Good for you. よかったね。 It just goes to show how powerful that connection was after having such a negative experience that you, you kept on and, are where you are today. それは、あなた、あなたが続け、そしてあなたが今日いる場所であるというような否定的な経験をした後、そのつながりがどれほど強力であったかを示しています。 So that's great. それは素晴らしいことです。 So you talk about, um, you previously you talked about having an unorthodox approach to learning Japanese and I, I guess you just spoke briefly on it just then, do you mean like using anime, which I guess is kind of not frowned upon, but it's a non traditional way. بنابراین ، شما در مورد آن صحبت می کنید ، هوم ، شما قبلاً در مورد برخورد غیرمتعارف برای یادگیری زبان ژاپنی صحبت کرده اید و من ، حدس می زنم شما فقط در مورد آن صحبت کردید ، آیا منظورتان این است که از انیمه استفاده کنید ، که به نظر من اخلاقی نیست ، اما این یک روش غیر سنتی است. それで、あなたは以前に日本語を学ぶための非正統的なアプローチを持っていることについて話しました、そして私はあなたがちょうどその時それについて簡単に話したと思います、あなたはアニメを使うのが好きだと思います、それは一種の眉をひそめていません、しかし、それは非伝統的な方法です。 People might say, it's not the best way to learn Japanese because you know, you'll learn the wrong kind of Japanese, more colloquial kind of language. 人々は、あなたが知っているので、それは日本語を学ぶための最良の方法ではないと言うかもしれません、あなたは間違った種類の日本語、より口語的な種類の言語を学ぶでしょう。 Um, so that was your main focus then when you started to study Japanese seriously? ええと、それがあなたが真剣に日本語を勉強し始めたときのあなたの主な焦点でしたか?

Matt: Yeah, anime was definitely the main focus of what I was studying from, but in terms of what made my method unorthodox, I would say that it was really these two components of first of all, having very little formal structure. マット:ええ、確かにアニメは私が勉強していたものの主な焦点でしたが、私の方法を非正統的なものにした理由に関しては、それは実際にはまず第一にこれらの2つのコンポーネントであり、形式的な構造はほとんどありませんでした。

So I basically learned the most common words and studied some basic grammar. それで、私は基本的に最も一般的な単語を学び、いくつかの基本的な文法を学びました。 But after that, I just dove into authentic content and I was learning things as they came up in the content without using something like a textbook or a teacher or something like that. でもその後は本物のコンテンツに飛び込んで、教科書や先生などを使わずに、コンテンツに出てきたものを学んでいました。 So I was really learning in this kind of organic, chaotic way of taking things as, as they came up. だから私は、物事が浮かび上がってきたときに、このような有機的で混沌とした方法で物事をとらえることを本当に学んでいました。

So that's one aspect to it. これが1つの側面です。 The other aspect of it, of the way I learned was that the emphasis is very strongly on input and comprehension in the beginning and not so much on speaking. それの他の側面は、私が学んだ方法のもう一つの側面は、最初は入力と理解に非常に強く重点が置かれ、話すことにはそれほど重点が置かれていないということでした。 So I was really just trying to get to the point where I could understand Japanese well before I was really concerned with trying to produce Japanese myself. ですから、自分で日本語を作ろうと思う前に、日本語が十分に理解できるようになろうとしていました。

Elle: How long did you study before you started to speak? エル:話し始める前にどれくらい勉強しましたか? Do you remember? 覚えていますか?

Matt: It was around three years before I started speaking regularly. マット:私が定期的に話し始めるのは約3年前でした。 And a lot of that was just how the circumstances kind of played out because, well, I will say so early on when I had that six month period in Japan, obviously I was speaking a lot. そして、その多くは、状況がどのように展開されたかということでした。なぜなら、私が日本でその6か月の期間を過ごしたとき、私は非常に早い段階で言うでしょう、明らかに私はたくさん話していました。

I was in Japan, but after I came back, Uh, I didn't speak for probably a year or two after that. 私は日本にいましたが、帰国後、おそらく1、2年は話をしませんでした。 And that was partially just because I was in America. そしてそれは部分的に私がアメリカにいたという理由だけでした。 I didn't have any Japanese friends, so there weren't really any opportunities to speak. 日本人の友達がいなかったので、話す機会があまりありませんでした。 And then around the three year mark, I, and by the way, the way that I'm counting my time, might be a little weird. そして、3年目頃、私、そしてちなみに、私の時間を数える方法は少し奇妙かもしれません。

Cause the first two years I was just taking classes and not starting very seriously. 最初の2年間は、クラスを受講しているだけで、あまり真剣に始めていませんでした。 And then two years then I started the all Japanese all the time period. そして2年後、私はずっと日本人全員を始めました。 So when I was three years into the all Japanese, all the time period, I transferred into a four year university where there was a lot of Japanese foreign exchange students. ですから、私が全日本人になって3年になると、その間ずっと、日本人の外国人留学生がたくさんいる4年制大学に転校しました。

And so that naturally gave me the opportunity to use my Japanese because suddenly I could kind of join this community of Japanese speakers. そして、突然、この日本語話者のコミュニティに参加できるようになったので、当然、日本語を使う機会が与えられました。 So I started speaking really regularly after that. それで、その後は本当に定期的に話し始めました。 And I found that at that time I could speak really naturally without a lot of effort, even though I hadn't really spoken since I was in Japan multiple years back and back then I could hardly speak at all. 当時、日本に何年も滞在していたので、あまり話さなかったのに、苦労せずに自然に話せるようになりました。 我发现当时我可以很自然地讲话,尽管我多年以来一直没有真正说过话,但是在那之后的日子里,我几乎无法讲话。

So. そう。 Kind of was like, uh, all the input naturally led to that result of being able to use it myself. ある種、ええと、すべての入力が自然にそれを自分で使用できるという結果につながったようなものでした。

Elle: Hmm. So what advice then if you had to boil it down. それで、もしあなたがそれを煮詰めなければならなかったら、どんなアドバイスがありますか。 那么,如果您不得不将其归结为什么建议呢。 I know that's tough to do, what advice do you have for anyone who is because Japanese is known to be a really difficult language to learn. 日本語はとても習得が難しい言語であることが知られているので、それをするのは難しいと思います。 What advice do you have for anyone thinking about dabbling or starting to study Japanese? 日本語を少しずつ勉強したり、勉強を始めたりすることを考えている人に何かアドバイスはありますか?

Matt: I mean, it kind of depends on what the person's goals are because, you know, getting, if you want to get really good at Japanese, like to the point where you can just comfortably watch your favorite anime with no subtitles and it's not any extra work or you can go and have a meaningful conversation with a Japanese person about, uh, you know, any, any topic spontaneously, that is going to take multiple years of really committing yourself and dedicating yourself to study. マット:つまり、それは人の目標によって異なります。なぜなら、日本語が本当に上手になりたいのなら、字幕なしでお気に入りのアニメを快適に見ることができるようになるからです。余計な仕事はありませんし、日本人と有意義な会話をすることもできます。それは、自発的にどんなトピックでも、本当に自分自身をコミットし、勉強に専念するのに何年もかかるでしょう。

So for, for those people, I would say if your final goal is to get really good, then I think taking an approach of focusing on comprehension and getting really good at understanding the language before worrying about speaking is going to serve you really well. ですから、そういう人たちにとって、あなたの最終的な目標が本当に上手になることなら、話すことを心配する前に、理解に焦点を合わせ、言語を本当に上手に理解するというアプローチを取ることはあなたに本当に役立つと思います。 But if you're kind of, coming at it, as you know, it's kind of a hobby, something you do on the side. でも、もしあなたがそういう人なら、ご存知のように、それは一種の趣味であり、あなたが側でやっていることです。

It'd be cool if you could, you know, speak a few words here or there, when you take a vacation to Japan. 日本に休暇をとるときに、あちこちで一言話せたらいいなと思います。 You know, maybe you learn a couple of phrases that enrich your experience of anime, although you still have to use the subtitles, uh, in that case then, you know, taking a more maybe traditional approach where, you know, you, you learn something and then you try to practice using it or, you know, using an app or something or a normal textbook. あなたが知っている、多分あなたはアニメのあなたの経験を豊かにするいくつかのフレーズを学ぶかもしれません、しかしあなたはまだ字幕を使わなければなりません、ええと、その場合、あなたは知っています、あなたが知っている、あなたが知っている、あなたが何かを学び、それを使って練習しようとするか、アプリか何かか通常の教科書を使って練習しようとします。

Will probably serve you well, because the thing about my approach is that the, the gains that you get are very delayed. 私のアプローチについてのことは、あなたが得る利益が非常に遅れているということなので、おそらくあなたに役立つでしょう。 You know, like I said, it took me three years before I could speak really well. 私が言ったように、私が本当に上手に話すことができるようになるまでに私は3年かかりました。 When the, when that three-year point arrived, I could speak really well, much better than people who generally take a traditional approach. その3年の時点が到来したとき、私は本当に上手に話すことができ、一般的に伝統的なアプローチをとる人々よりもはるかに上手でした。

Uh, but three years is a really long time to be waiting and fully dedicating yourself to this thing. ええと、でも3年は待って、このことに完全に専念するのに本当に長い時間です。 So I'd say it's probably going to be helpful for people to think about what they're goals are starting off, because I think a lot of people don't really think about that. ですから、多くの人はあまり考えていないので、自分の目標が何から始まっているのかを考えることは、おそらく役立つだろうと思います。

Elle: Hmm, I agree with that for sure. エル:うーん、確かにそうだね。 Um, do you speak any other languages, or are you all about the Japanese? ええと、あなたは他の言語を話しますか、それともあなたはすべて日本語についてですか? Do you remeber any Spanish from high school? 高校時代のスペイン語を覚えていますか?

Matt: I don't remember any Spanish from high school, but I have been working on Mandarin, uh, on and off for a couple of years. マット:高校時代のスペイン語は覚えていませんが、マンダリンに取り組んでいます。 But for the last couple of months, I've been more consistent with it. しかし、ここ数か月の間、私はそれとより一貫性がありました。 So that's, that's been pretty. だから、それはきれいだった。

Elle: And how's that going? エル:それはどうですか? I guess you have the Kanji from Japanese to help you. あなたは日本語の漢字を手伝ってくれると思います。

Matt: That definitely helps a lot. マット:それは間違いなく大いに役立ちます。 And, uh, overall, uh, it was, yeah, like I said, I was on and off for a couple of years because, you know, I'm very interested in Mandarin and I want to learn the language, but I don't necessarily want to dedicate my whole life to it like I did with Japanese. そして、ええと、全体的に、ええと、ええ、私が言ったように、私はマンダリンに非常に興味があり、言語を学びたいので、私は数年間オンとオフを繰り返していましたが、私はしません日本人のように一生を捧げたいとは限りません。 And because have always been a kind of all or nothing personality type, it's taken me a while to learn how to still do Chinese, without trying to do it all the time. そして、常に一種のオールオアナッシングの性格タイプだったので、いつも中国語をやろうとせずに、まだ中国語をやる方法を学ぶのに時間がかかりました。

And it feels like just in the past year, I finally figured out how to do that. そして、ちょうど昨年のように感じます、私はついにそれをする方法を考え出しました。 And so now things are going pretty smoothly. そして今、物事はかなり順調に進んでいます。 And it's, it's been a lot of fun. そして、それはとても楽しかったです。 I still base my approach off the, the approach that I took for Japanese. 私は今でも、日本人のために取ったアプローチに基づいてアプローチしています。 So I'm not really worried about speaking. だから私は話すことについて本当に心配していません。 I'm mostly watching Chinese dramas with Chinese subtitles and as I go, I'll look words up and then I'll make flashcards juror to remember words. 私は主に中国語字幕付きの中国ドラマを見ています、そして私が行くにつれて、私は言葉を調べて、それから私は言葉を覚えるためにフラッシュカード陪審員を作ります。

And yeah, I'm kind of at the point now where I can watch a drama and follow the plot if there's Chinese subtitles, because you know, they, for a lot of people, the characters are probably one of the most difficult aspects of the language, but for me it makes it way easier cause I know them from Japanese. ええ、私は今、ドラマを見て、中国語の字幕があればプロットをたどることができるようになりました。なぜなら、多くの人にとって、キャラクターはおそらく最も難しい側面の1つだからです。言語ですが、私にとっては日本語で知っているのでとても簡単です。 So with subtitles, I can understand pretty, pretty good amount, much less when it's, it's just listening, but... だから字幕で、かなり、かなりの量を理解することができます、それがそうであるときははるかに少ないです、それはただ聞いているだけです、しかし...

but yeah, it's been a lot of fun. でもええ、とても楽しかったです。

Elle: Excellent. エル:すばらしい。 And so what is, uh, what's in the works for Matt Vs Japan in 2021? それで、ええと、2021年のマット対ジャパンの作品は何ですか? Anything interesting happening? 何か面白いことが起こっていますか?

Matt: Yeah. マット:うん。 Well, so right now I'm working on this project called Refold. さて、今私はリフォールドと呼ばれるこのプロジェクトに取り組んでいます。 We kind of launched a couple of months ago. 数ヶ月前にローンチしました。 So it's kind of just taking the method that I used to learn Japanese and kind of adding a more formal structure to it so that there is some structure within the chaos. ですから、私が日本語を学ぶのに使った方法を採用し、より正式な構造を追加して、混沌の中に何らかの構造を持たせるようなものです。

Cause like I said, my personal, uh, method of learning Japanese was very chaotic and organic. 私が言ったように、私の個人的な日本語の学習方法は非常に混沌としていて有機的でした。 It was just consuming, whatever, whatever Japanese content I felt like consuming, learning, whatever came up. それは、私が消費したいと思った日本のコンテンツ、学習したもの、思いついたものは何でも、ただ消費していました。 And it worked but I think for a lot of people, they feel, they feel very overwhelmed by just the. そしてそれはうまくいきましたが、多くの人にとって、彼らはただに圧倒されていると感じていると思います。 You know, Nebula nebulosity of this approach. あなたが知っている、このアプローチの星雲星雲。

So we're creating a more structured kind of outline for how to learn organically through native content. そのため、ネイティブコンテンツを通じて有機的に学習する方法について、より構造化された種類のアウトラインを作成しています。 And so we, when I say we it's, I'm doing this with my friend, Ethan, so it's the two of us mainly right now. ですから、私たちがそうだと言うとき、私は友人のイーサンとこれをやっているので、今は主に私たち2人です。 And so we have a website up refold.la that has, um, uh, what we call a roadmap for taking this immersion style of, of learning and it breaks the language learning process down into four stages. そして、refold.laのウェブサイトがあります。このウェブサイトには、この没入型の学習スタイルを採用するためのロードマップと呼ばれるものがあり、言語学習プロセスを4つの段階に分けています。

And the guide right now is what we call language agnostic. そして今のガイドは、私たちが言語にとらわれないものと呼んでいるものです。 Meaning it's not for any specific language, it's just how to learn any language. つまり、特定の言語向けではなく、どの言語を学ぶかということです。 And so we want to start partnering with people who have gotten to a really high level in various languages and creating kind of language specific guides for the same underlying そのため、さまざまな言語で非常に高いレベルに達した人々と提携し、同じ基礎となる言語固有のガイドを作成したいと考えています。 因此,我们希望开始与使用多种语言达到很高水平的人们合作,并为相同的基础知识创建某种特定于语言的指南

methodology that has specific resources and, and has a, you know, methodology for tackling challenges, unique to various languages. 特定のリソースがあり、さまざまな言語に固有の課題に取り組むための方法論がある方法論。 So hopefully, yeah, we'll, we'll have some of these language specific guides coming out, uh, later down this year. ですから、うまくいけば、ええ、そうです、これらの言語固有のガイドのいくつかが今年後半に出てくるでしょう。

Elle: Excellent. That sounds great. それはいいです。 I think that's great because like you say it is... a lot of people I think could benefit from that, this kind of language learning, just cherry picking, but you know what you enjoy, but it is chaotic, like you say, and it takes a special, I think, kind of person maybe to stick with it. あなたが言うように、それは素晴らしいことだと思います...多くの人がそれから恩恵を受けることができると思います、この種の言語学習、ちょうどチェリーピッキング、しかしあなたはあなたが何を楽しんでいるか知っています、しかしあなたが言うようにそれは混沌です、それに固執するには、特別な人が必要だと思います。 And so a lot of people would benefit from having structure to it. そして、多くの人々はそれに構造を持つことから利益を得るでしょう。 So... そう...

Matt: yeah, like I think it's, it's definitely never going to be for everybody, but I think, yeah, we can broaden out the scope of what type of person it's going to work for by creating a more, マット:ええ、私が思うように、それは間違いなくすべての人のためになることはありませんが、ええ、私たちは、より多くを作成することによって、それが働く人のタイプの範囲を広げることができると思います、

a structured approach to it and better instruction. それへの構造化されたアプローチとより良い指導。

Elle: Excellent. Well, I look forward to checking it out. さて、チェックするのを楽しみにしています。 Um, thank you so much, Matt, for joining us today. マット、今日はご参加いただきありがとうございます。 It's been a pleasure. それは喜びでした。

Matt: Thanks so much for having me. マット:ありがとうございます。 It was fun.

Elle: Cheers And, uh, maybe we'll chat again soon. エル:乾杯そして、ええと、多分私たちはすぐにまたチャットするでしょう。

Matt: Yeah. Anytime. どんなときも。

Elle: Bye. Cheers. Bye bye.