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ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Moyers on Democracy. What is the shadow network behind the nomination of Judge Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court? Quel est le réseau fantôme derrière la nomination de la juge Amy Coney Barrett à la Cour suprême ? Who selected and groomed her for this moment? Qui l'a sélectionnée et préparée pour ce moment ? Who's financing the campaign to get her confirmed? Who's counting on her to side with President Trump if he's losing the election and wants the Supreme Court to declare him the winner? Qui compte sur elle pour se ranger du côté du président Trump s'il perd les élections et veut que la Cour suprême le déclare vainqueur ? For the answers, Bill Moyers talks to journalist and investigator Anne Nelson about her book: SHADOW NETWORK: MEDIA, MONEY, AND THE SECRET HUB OF THE RADICAL RIGHT. In it, she exposes the powerful and little-known Council for National Policy, the organization behind the conservative movement of the past 40 years – from Ronald Reagan's secret war in Central America to their success in turning the Supreme Court into the Trump Court. Dans ce document, elle expose le puissant et peu connu Council for National Policy, l'organisation derrière le mouvement conservateur des 40 dernières années - de la guerre secrète de Ronald Reagan en Amérique centrale à leur succès à transformer la Cour suprême en Trump Court. Ms. Nelson has received the Livingston Award for her journalism and a Guggenheim Fellowship for historical research. Here to talk with her is Bill Moyers.

BILL MOYERS: Welcome. It's a pleasure to talk to you.

ANNE NELSON: My pleasure.

BILL MOYERS: Let me begin with the most current part of the story, which comes just a little bit after your book is published when the conservative movement is facing a very decisive encounter with the very forces it's been trying to defeat now for 40 years. BILL MOYERS : Permettez-moi de commencer par la partie la plus actuelle de l'histoire, qui survient juste un peu après la publication de votre livre, alors que le mouvement conservateur fait face à une rencontre très décisive avec les forces mêmes qu'il essaie de vaincre depuis 40 ans. How do you think the shadow network reads the confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court? What are they making of it?

ANNE NELSON: Well, I think that they consider it a great triumph and a kind of culmination of 40 years of effort. And I demure a bit at the term conservative because this is, for me, the radical right. Et je reste un peu réservé sur le terme conservateur parce que c'est, pour moi, la droite radicale. It is so far to the right of mainstream American public opinion that I feel that it's in a different category both in terms of its ideology and its tactics. Il est tellement à droite de l'opinion publique américaine dominante que j'ai l'impression qu'il se situe dans une catégorie différente à la fois en termes d'idéologie et de tactique. But they decided way back in the day of Paul Weyrich, one of the architects of the movement that they– Mais ils ont décidé, à l'époque de Paul Weyrich, l'un des architectes du mouvement, qu'ils...

BILL MOYERS: In the early 1970s, right?

ANNE NELSON: We're going back to the '70s and even earlier, because he was active on the Barry Goldwater campaign. And he was frustrated time and again by moderates in the Republican Party and people who were willing to work with Democrats to advance policy and solutions to public problems. Et il a été frustré à maintes reprises par les modérés du Parti républicain et les personnes qui étaient disposées à travailler avec les démocrates pour faire avancer la politique et les solutions aux problèmes publics. And he created organizations and tactics that he openly declared should destroy the regime, as he called it, which would be the U.S. government as we've known it for the last century.

BILL MOYERS: Paul Weyrich is the man I remember saying–

PAUL WEYRICH: I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. Ils ne l'ont jamais été depuis le début de notre pays et ils ne le sont plus maintenant. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populous goes down. En fait, notre influence lors des élections augmente franchement à mesure que la population électorale diminue.

BILL MOYERS: He was essentially saying, as a newly anointed leader of the religious right, what their philosophy was. BILL MOYERS : Il disait essentiellement, en tant que leader nouvellement oint de la droite religieuse, quelle était leur philosophie. The fewer people vote, the better their chance.

ANNE NELSON: That's right. And from the beginning, in terms of their electoral tactics, it has been a matter of weaponizing certain churches and pastors and really exerting tremendous pressure on them to use churches as instruments of a radical right ideology. Et depuis le début, en termes de tactique électorale, il s'agissait d'armer certaines églises et certains pasteurs et d'exercer vraiment une pression énorme sur eux pour qu'ils utilisent les églises comme instruments d'une idéologie de droite radicale. And then using similar tactics to suppress votes for Democrats, especially in key battleground states. Et puis en utilisant des tactiques similaires pour supprimer les votes pour les démocrates, en particulier dans les principaux États du champ de bataille.

BILL MOYERS: So that's why you conclude in your book they were to the right of the Republican Party. They were not just an offshoot of the Republican Party. Ils n'étaient pas seulement une émanation du Parti républicain. They were not just fundraisers for the Republican Party, but they were ideologically and organizationally taking the Republican Party far to the right.

ANNE NELSON: Absolutely, and somewhat to my surprise, I found that their prototype was the Southern Baptist Convention, where they decided that in order to move it to the right, they had to use questionable tactics to elevate their supporters to key positions of influence and purge the Southern Baptist Convention of moderates in the seminaries and in the colleges and among the pastors. ANNE NELSON : Absolument, et quelque peu à ma grande surprise, j'ai découvert que leur prototype était la Convention baptiste du Sud, où ils ont décidé que pour la déplacer vers la droite, ils devaient utiliser des tactiques douteuses pour élever leurs partisans à des postes d'influence clés. et purger la Convention Baptiste du Sud des modérés dans les séminaires et dans les collèges et parmi les pasteurs. And it was a fairly ruthless process, and once these tactics were developed, they applied it to the Republican Party. Et c'était un processus assez impitoyable, et une fois ces tactiques développées, ils l'ont appliquée au Parti républicain. And you had the same kind of tactics going on of purging moderates, some of whom had been in office for years.

BILL MOYERS: I should point out to some of our younger listeners and readers that the Southern Baptist Convention at the time and still today was the largest Protestant denomination in America. BILL MOYERS : Je devrais souligner à certains de nos jeunes auditeurs et lecteurs que la Convention baptiste du Sud à l'époque et encore aujourd'hui était la plus grande dénomination protestante en Amérique. You know, something like it eventually reached 16 and a half million members scattered throughout the South and the West. Vous savez, quelque chose comme ça a finalement atteint 16 millions et demi de membres dispersés dans le Sud et l'Ouest. We'll come back to them in a moment. What do you think about the NEW YORK TIMES' assessment that Amy Coney Barrett represents a new conservativism rooted in faith. Que pensez-vous de l'évaluation du NEW YORK TIMES selon laquelle Amy Coney Barrett représente un nouveau conservatisme enraciné dans la foi. That's how their headline described a three-page portrait of her life and career. Does that make sense to you?

ANNE NELSON: Not entirely, because as a conservative Catholic, she follows in the footsteps of others such as Brett Kavanaugh and Antonin Scalia. So that's not very new. And what I look at in my book SHADOW NETWORK is how these interlocking organizations support each other. Et ce que je regarde dans mon livre SHADOW NETWORK, c'est comment ces organisations interdépendantes se soutiennent mutuellement. The book is about the Council for National Policy– a radical right-wing organization that is very secretive, and it brings together big donors like the DeVos family and oil interests from Texas and Oklahoma and political operatives. Le livre parle du Council for National Policy – une organisation radicale de droite qui est très secrète, et qui rassemble de grands donateurs comme la famille DeVos et des intérêts pétroliers du Texas et de l'Oklahoma et des agents politiques. And, for example, members include the leadership of the Federalist Society. Et, par exemple, les membres comprennent la direction de la Federalist Society. Well, Amy Coney Barrett was a member of the Federalist Society for a number of years and is still a speaker at their events. It includes the head of Hillsdale College, which is one of their campus partners. Il comprend le directeur du Hillsdale College, qui est l'un de leurs partenaires sur le campus. Amy Coney Barrett was commencement speaker for Hillsdale College this year. Amy Coney Barrett était conférencière d'ouverture pour le Hillsdale College cette année. So, there are all of these organizations that have been turning their wheels to promote her really for several years going back. Donc, il y a toutes ces organisations qui tournent leurs roues pour la promouvoir vraiment depuis plusieurs années. She appeared on previous lists of potential nominees for the Supreme Court, and I don't believe she would have been included in those lists had she not confirmed to their traditional idea of an activist judge. Elle figurait sur les listes précédentes de candidats potentiels à la Cour suprême, et je ne crois pas qu'elle aurait été incluse dans ces listes si elle n'avait pas confirmé leur idée traditionnelle d'un juge militant.

BILL MOYERS: They knew what they were looking for.

ANNE NELSON: And I should add that one of the most powerful components in the Council for National Policy is the anti-abortion movement. Organizations such as the Susan B. Anthony List and Concerned Women for America and other interests, which are anti-environmentalist interests from the fossil fuels industry. Des organisations telles que Susan B. Anthony List et Concerned Women for America et d'autres intérêts, qui sont des intérêts anti-environnementalistes de l'industrie des combustibles fossiles. So, I think that we've seen a roadmap of what to expect moving forward. Donc, je pense que nous avons vu une feuille de route de ce à quoi s'attendre pour aller de l'avant.

BILL MOYERS: Tell me, who does make up the Council for National Policy? BILL MOYERS : Dites-moi, qui compose le Conseil pour la politique nationale ?

ANNE NELSON: So, the Council for National Policy has traditionally been around 400 members. From the beginning, it's included people with big money, a lot of them from the Texas and Oklahoma oil industries, but also the DeVos family of Michigan from the Amway fortune, and Betsy DeVos, of course. So, it has the big money to pay for things. It's got the leaders of so-called grassroots organizations. Il a les dirigeants des soi-disant organisations de base. Now, I say so-called, because they do not spring from the grassroots the way that you would expect from the name. Maintenant, je dis soi-disant, parce qu'ils ne jaillissent pas de la base comme on pourrait s'y attendre d'après le nom. They are organized with a great deal of money from the top down. Ils sont organisés avec beaucoup d'argent du haut vers le bas. So, for example, the National Rifle Association– their leadership is part of the CNP. Ainsi, par exemple, la National Rifle Association – leur direction fait partie du CNP. They get money from the donors, they organize their millions of members, and you combine these with the strategists and the media owners. Ils reçoivent de l'argent des donateurs, ils organisent leurs millions de membres, et vous les combinez avec les stratèges et les propriétaires de médias. And I spend a lot of time in my book talking about the power of fundamentalist and conservative radio in swing states. Et je passe beaucoup de temps dans mon livre à parler du pouvoir de la radio fondamentaliste et conservatrice dans les États swing. Things that people on the East Coast overlook to a terrible degree. Des choses que les gens de la côte Est négligent terriblement. And the same thing with fundamentalist broadcasting, which has really several of these broadcasters — the Christian Broadcasting Network, the Trinity Broadcasting Network have really turned into outlets replicating the messaging from this organization. Et la même chose avec la radiodiffusion fondamentaliste, qui compte vraiment plusieurs de ces diffuseurs – le Christian Broadcasting Network, le Trinity Broadcasting Network se sont vraiment transformés en points de vente reproduisant les messages de cette organisation. So, you have them interlocking and interacting and each supporting each other's function. Ainsi, vous les avez imbriqués et interagissant et chacun soutenant la fonction de l'autre. And I should explain something here, which is that they represent historically a white, Protestant, I'm sorry, but male-dominated patriarchy–

BILL MOYERS: No, that's okay.

ANNE NELSON: And I have to say that demographically its time has passed. ANNE NELSON : Et je dois dire que démographiquement, son temps est révolu. The United States has become more diverse religiously, ethnically, and racially. And they recognize that their core positions are not supported by the majority of Americans. Et ils reconnaissent que leurs positions fondamentales ne sont pas soutenues par la majorité des Américains. So, they went to the limit, pulled out all the stops to get Trump elected by a tiny margin, but they doubt that they can do that again. Alors, ils sont allés à la limite, ont tout mis en œuvre pour faire élire Trump avec une infime marge, mais ils doutent qu'ils puissent le faire à nouveau. The signs are not good. What they can do is make their hold on the federal courts concrete through the Supreme Court, and therefore, get majorities in cases like gerrymandering, voter suppression, and their political activation of the churches with tax-exempt status. Ce qu'ils peuvent faire, c'est concrétiser leur emprise sur les tribunaux fédéraux par le biais de la Cour suprême et, par conséquent, obtenir des majorités dans des affaires comme le gerrymandering, la suppression des électeurs et leur activation politique des églises exonérées d'impôt. And further their hold on power through the courts. Et plus loin leur emprise sur le pouvoir par les tribunaux.

BILL MOYERS: So which part of the shadow network do you think chose, mentored, and groomed Amy Coney Barrett for this moment?

ANNE NELSON: Well, I have to speculate here. But I would see a fairly straight line from her position to Leonard Leo's. Mais je verrais une ligne assez droite entre sa position et celle de Leonard Leo. Now, Leonard Leo is a very conservative Catholic. He was the operational figure of the Federalist Society for a number of years, and recently he shifted from that position to an even more activist position. Il a été la figure opérationnelle de la Federalist Society pendant un certain nombre d'années, et récemment, il est passé de cette position à une position encore plus militante. Amy Coney Barrett was already a member of the Federalist Society. The Federalist Society has a pipeline through the lower federal courts, which she benefited from. La Federalist Society a un pipeline à travers les tribunaux fédéraux inférieurs, dont elle a bénéficié. So, in terms of this Catholic interaction they would be quite close to each other. Another key figure is Carrie Severino, who is from the Judicial Crisis Network, which was co-founded by Leonard Leo. Une autre figure clé est Carrie Severino, qui fait partie du Judicial Crisis Network, qui a été cofondé par Leonard Leo. And again, very right-wing Catholics who have tended to be overlooked while people focus on the fundamentalist Protestants. И снова, очень правые католики, которых обычно не замечали, в то время как люди сосредотачивались на протестантах-фундаменталистах. But Ralph Reed, who has been somebody who's been active with the fundamentalist politicization for decades declared openly years ago that the next step to their campaign was to enlist the Catholic vote. Mais Ralph Reed, qui a été quelqu'un qui a été actif avec la politisation fondamentaliste pendant des décennies, a déclaré ouvertement il y a des années que la prochaine étape de leur campagne était d'obtenir le vote catholique. And they've been aggressively doing that in recent years.

BILL MOYERS: And then there's Don McGahn who was for three years Donald Trump's chief White House counsel, graduate of Notre Dame, admirer of Amy Coney Barrett, who was scouting himself for recruits to bring up, train, groom, and put into the mix for potential Supreme Court justices. BILL MOYERS: Et puis il y a Don McGahn qui a été pendant trois ans l'avocat en chef de Donald Trump à la Maison Blanche, diplômé de Notre Dame, admirateur d'Amy Coney Barrett, qui recherchait lui-même des recrues à élever, former, préparer et mettre dans le mélange pour les juges potentiels de la Cour suprême. And I read that he was highly enthusiastic about her, had talked to Leo and that they had you had both these White House and legal forces behind her, knowing that she was one of them. Et j'ai lu qu'il était très enthousiaste à son sujet, qu'il avait parlé à Leo et qu'ils avaient cette Maison Blanche et les forces légales derrière elle, sachant qu'elle était l'une d'entre elles.

ANNE NELSON: Yes. And I would guess that they suffered enough embarrassment over the Brett Kavanaugh hearings and the discussion of possible sexual harassment that was involved, that it was a convenient moment to bring a female to the top of the list to avoid that. Et je suppose qu'ils ont subi suffisamment d'embarras au cours des audiences de Brett Kavanaugh et de la discussion sur le possible harcèlement sexuel qui était impliqué, que c'était un moment opportun pour amener une femme en tête de liste pour éviter cela. So, there were a number of elements in her favor. I should add that in the process of these nominations Trump cut a deal in 2016 with this movement, and it was publicly reported that he was going to accept lists of nominees from three organizations run by Council for National Policy members: the Heritage Foundation, the Federalist Society, and the National Rifle Association, believe it or not. And he has actually followed suit with that. Et il a en fait emboîté le pas avec cela. И он действительно последовал этому примеру. The Federalist Society has taken the lead on this, but you will find the Heritage Foundation in the background of all of these proceedings, as well as the NRA.

BILL MOYERS: Did you see anybody from the shadow network at the White House when President Trump announced her nomination? Could you identify any there as members of the Council for National Policy?

ANNE NELSON: Why, as a matter of fact, I could. I've got the September 2020 membership list. So, I went through U.S.A. Donc, je suis passé par les États-Unis Today's publication of who was present at that event, which has been called the COVID superspreader event on September 29th. La publication d'aujourd'hui de qui était présent à cet événement, qui a été appelé l'événement de super diffusion COVID le 29 septembre.