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English LingQ Podcast 1.0, Forty-three: Debating Gay Marriage

Forty-three: Debating Gay Marriage

Steve: Jill.

Here we are again. We're going to try to debate something. Let's try to be controversial. Let's talk about gay marriage.

Jill: A very popular subject in Canada.

Steve: It's a big subject. I don't think it concerns that many people in fact, but it seems to get a lot of press.

Jill: Yes.

Steve: Which side do you want to defend? And, we should say ahead of time that which ever side we choose it doesn't have to be the way we think.

Jill: Actually feel, yeah.

Steve: No. But it's just for the purpose of having a debate.

Jill: Right.

I will defend the side, I guess I'll take the side of gay, pro gay marriage.

Steve: Okay, pro gay marriage. Okay what does that mean? So you think gays should get married?

Jill: I think that yes, if two people love each other and want to be married and have the same rights as a married couple, a woman and a man here which means there are certain tax benefits and there's different things that come along with a legally recognized marriage. And, if, if two men or two women want that then I think they should be able to.

Steve: Now it's my understanding that the marriage issue is one step beyond getting the same rights. I understand that there is a common law arrangement, that there is a legal arrangement that gays can have because they live in a union. And that, with their partner and therefore they would share many of the same rights, if not all of the same rights as a married couple. But my understanding is what the gays want is they want the word marriage.

Jill: Marriage.

Steve: And, that's where I draw the line. That's where I draw the line because I think the word marriage has a lot of cultural significance in it. It has been around for a long, long time. So, what we're really saying is that, and I think this is the crux of the matter, that the gays want to say our marriage, our union is as natural, as honorable, as wonderful as any other union.

Jill: Right.

Steve: And, that's what I don't agree with because the marriage of one man and one woman is pretty fundamental to our society.

Jill: And our survival.

Steve: Now, don't agree with me. You're supposed to disagree. So, and I think we have evolved to a situation where we think the marriage of one man and one woman is, can be a fairly equal relationship. One man and ten women, you know or one woman and ten men, we don't think that's good.

Jill: No.

Steve: No. One man and one woman, we think that's kind of healthy. We think that's good for the children, it provides a role model for sons and daughters. We think that's good so people like that. They, that's important to many people. So, I understand that the gays are saying it's important for us to be recognized as the same as that but in fact, in my opinion it's not the same. So that's where I feel that, and the problem is that once it's recognized legally as the same then the gays will try to force various institutions such as religions to grant them the same status as you know, heterosexual you know, monogamous relationships because it's now law and it's their right and so forth and so on.

So, I just think it's not necessary. I think, I have nothing against gays and they can live their lives however they want but I think that by the same token they should just respect this very, very universal and long standing institution of marriage.

Jill: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I can definitely understand that perspective however I think that, I mean the institution of marriage has changed a lot over the years and it's, I mean people are getting divorced constantly. People are getting married five times and so I think to a lot of people it doesn't mean very much and they just do it then it's easy to undo it and I think that there could be gay people who might it might mean more to them than some heterosexual people and they may still want to be parents and they could be very good parents. They could be very good role models.

There's a lot of terrible parents out there that are heterosexual and that are married and have you know raised bad children or not good parents and so I just, yeah, I think that basically they should be given the same opportunity.

Steve: Okay. Certainly I think there is a lot to what you are saying and that is that the hallowed institution of marriage may in fact contain all kinds of problems and we read some of the worst stories of child abuse and who knows what that happen and spouse abuse and so forth that happens in our traditional heterosexual marriages. And, it is true that divorce is more and more common but I think recognizing gay marriage is just one more sort of stone thrown at the institution of marriage.

I also have a problem of the idea of gays adopting children or in the case of lesbians, artificially inseminating themselves. I guess you could have theoretically two pregnant partners.

Jill: Yeah, you could.

Steve: You know, it just gets away from what's natural. What's natural is not necessarily always good. There are nasty animals. There are animals that eat their young, you know what I mean? There are gay animals.

Jill: Antibiotics are not natural. I mean there's lots of things that are …

Steve: No, No but I'm saying even within what is natural it's not all good.

Jill: No, it's not all good and,

Steve: It's not all good and so there's all kinds, I mean nature is not necessarily moral.

Jill: No.

Steve: It just is. But, to me, I'm a bit of a traditionalist and I always hope that one day the divorce rate will start going the other way, that we'll have less and less divorce. I think a large part of the high divorce rate is this whole everything for me now kind of attitude that I tend to believe comes from our pop culture and so forth but I can't prove it. But, so, no, I think that the fact that gays are not persecuted is a good thing. In fact, and ideally people who are gay at work and in very different situations, I don't ask people who might be my employees or whom I deal with whether they are gay or not. If they happen to introduce me to their partner without happens to be of the same sex then okay. None of that bothers me at all.

I just think there is a certain militancy sometimes on the part of gays and maybe that's normal in any situation where people have been subject to some degree of persecution and you'll have a sort of a militancy that kind of goes too far the other way. And I see nothing wrong with some kind of a civil union and similar tax breaks for gays as long as there is a commitment, you know to a long term relationship.

Now, you could argue that nothing prevents heterosexuals from having a marriage of convenience for any number of tax advantages. A marriage of convenience, a divorce of convenience, all this kind of stuff. Whether it be for immigration reasons, social welfare reasons, I mean there is so much abuse and stuff everywhere so I'm not suggesting that heterosexual people are better than gays but I just think the institution of marriage to me, although if I'm perfectly honest, it doesn't matter or bother me at all.

Jill: You're just taking that side.

Steve: No, no, no, I'm saying I do believe the institution of marriage is important. Now I'm saying whatever you feel but the fact that gays are allowed to call themselves married doesn't affect in any way how I feel about my own marriage.

Jill: No, exactly.

Steve: No impact. But it does, I just kind of feel somewhere that in our society, I just feel that the institution of marriage should be kind of

Jill: Sacred.

Steve: Buttressed a little bit. Helped along a little bit and shouldn't be so easy to divorce, you know and all the different things that go on.

Jill: Well I agree with you there for sure, yeah.

Steve: You know? I think it was Napoleon that said you know, Jill we always end up agreeing at the end. You ought to get something.

Jill: Get a topic where we really do disagree.

Steve: Totally disagree. We'll find something that's nastier. But, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, Napoleon once said that if you allow women to, if you allow divorce, divorce will happen. I mean there's something to be said for that. If it's just not an option or it's very difficult to get a divorce people will find,

Jill: People will work it out.

Steve: They'll find other solutions. So. We'll talk about that next time.

Hey, listen we forgot to say that this is EnglishLingQ.com so those of you who are hearing this you can also go to the website EnglishLingQ.com where you will find a transcript. And, if you're really clever you will join the Linguist so that you can learn the words and phrases that will help you when you have to argue with someone in English. And, hopefully your argument will be more heart felt than the one I've just had with Jill.

Jill: Yeah.

Steve: Where we always agree. Okay.

Jill: Alright. Bye, bye.

Steve: Bye.


Forty-three: Debating Gay Marriage

Steve: Jill.

Here we are again. We’re going to try to debate something. Wir werden versuchen, etwas zu diskutieren. Let’s try to be controversial. 物議を醸すようにしましょう。 Let’s talk about gay marriage. Reden wir über die Homo-Ehe.

Jill: A very popular subject in Canada.

Steve: It’s a big subject. I don’t think it concerns that many people in fact, but it seems to get a lot of press. Ich denke nicht, dass es tatsächlich so viele Menschen betrifft, aber es scheint viel Presse zu bekommen. 実はそんなに多くの人が気になっているとは思いませんが、マスコミが多いようです。 Aslında pek çok insanın endişe duyduğunu düşünmüyorum, ama çok fazla baskı yapıyor gibi görünüyor.

Jill: Yes.

Steve: Which side do you want to defend? スティーブ:どちら側を守りたいですか? Steve: Hangi tarafı savunmak istiyorsunuz? And, we should say ahead of time that which ever side we choose it doesn’t have to be the way we think. Und wir sollten im Voraus sagen, dass die Seite, für die wir uns entscheiden, nicht so sein muss, wie wir denken. Et, nous devrions dire à l'avance que quel que soit le côté que nous choisissons, il n'est pas nécessaire que ce soit notre façon de penser. そして、どちらの側を選んでも、私たちの考え方である必要はないことを前もって言う必要があります。 Ve şunu seçmeliyiz ki, hangi tarafı seçeceğimizi hiç düşünmememiz gerekmiyor.

Jill: Actually feel, yeah. Jill : Je ressens vraiment, ouais. ジル:実際に感じます、ええ。 Jill: Aslında, evet.

Steve: No. But it’s just for the purpose of having a debate. Aber es ist nur zum Zweck einer Debatte. Mais c'est juste pour avoir un débat. Ama bu sadece bir tartışmanın amacı için.

Jill: Right. Jill: Richtig.

I will defend the side, I guess I’ll take the side of gay, pro gay marriage. Ich werde die Seite verteidigen, ich denke, ich werde die Seite der schwulen, pro-schwulen Ehe vertreten. 私は側を守ります、私は同性愛者、プロ同性愛者の結婚の側を取ると思います。 Tarafı savunacağım, sanırım eşcinsel, eşcinsel evliliğin yanını alacağım.

Steve: Okay, pro gay marriage. Steve: Tamam, eşcinsel evlilik. Okay what does that mean? Okay was bedeutet das Tamam, bu ne anlama geliyor? So you think gays should get married? Du denkst also, Schwule sollten heiraten? Yani eşcinsellerin evlenmesi gerektiğini mi düşünüyorsun?

Jill: I think that yes, if two people love each other and want to be married and have the same rights as a married couple, a woman and a man here which means there are certain tax benefits and there’s different things that come along with a legally recognized marriage. Jill: Ich denke ja, wenn zwei Menschen sich lieben und verheiratet sein wollen und die gleichen Rechte wie ein Ehepaar, eine Frau und ein Mann haben, bedeutet dies, dass es bestimmte Steuervorteile gibt und dass verschiedene Dinge mit einem einhergehen gesetzlich anerkannte Ehe. ジル:そうだと思います。2人がお互いを愛し、結婚したいと思っていて、夫婦と同じ権利を持っている場合、ここでは女性と男性が特定の税制上の優遇措置があり、それに伴ってさまざまなことが起こります。法的に認められた結婚。 Jill: Bence evet, eğer iki insan birbirini seviyorsa ve evli olmak ve evli bir çiftle aynı haklara sahip olmak istiyorsa, bir kadın ve bir erkek burada, belirli vergi avantajları vardır ve bununla birlikte gelen farklı şeyler vardır. yasal olarak tanınan evlilik. And, if, if two men or two women want that then I think they should be able to. Und wenn zwei Männer oder zwei Frauen das wollen, dann sollten sie es meiner Meinung nach können. Ve eğer, eğer iki erkek ya da iki kadın bunu istiyorsa, bunu yapabilmeleri gerektiğini düşünüyorum.

Steve: Now it’s my understanding that the marriage issue is one step beyond getting the same rights. Steve: Jetzt verstehe ich, dass das Thema Ehe einen Schritt weiter geht, als die gleichen Rechte zu erlangen. Steve: Şimdi benim anlayışım evlilik meselesinin aynı hakları elde etmenin ötesinde bir adım. I understand that there is a common law arrangement, that there is a legal arrangement that gays can have because they live in a union. Ich verstehe, dass es eine Common-Law-Regelung gibt, dass es eine rechtliche Regelung gibt, die Schwule haben können, weil sie in einer Gewerkschaft leben. Ortak bir hukuk düzenlemesi olduğunu, geylerin bir birlik içinde yaşadıkları için sahip olabileceği yasal bir düzenleme olduğunu anlıyorum. And that, with their partner and therefore they would share many of the same rights, if not all of the same rights as a married couple. Und das, mit ihrem Partner und deshalb würden sie viele der gleichen Rechte teilen, wenn nicht alle die gleichen Rechte wie ein Ehepaar. Ve eşleri ile ve bu nedenle, aynı hakların çoğunu, evli bir çiftle aynı hakları paylaşmıyorlarsa, paylaşacaklardır. But my understanding is what the gays want is they want the word marriage. Aber nach meinem Verständnis wollen die Schwulen das Wort Ehe. しかし、私の理解は、同性愛者が望んでいるのは、結婚という言葉を望んでいるということです。 Ama benim anlayışım eşcinsellerin istediği şey, evliliğin kelimesini istemeleri.

Jill: Marriage.

Steve: And, that’s where I draw the line. Steve: Und hier ziehe ich die Grenze. Steve: Ben de çizgiyi çizdiğim yer burası. That’s where I draw the line because I think the word marriage has a lot of cultural significance in it. Hier ziehe ich die Grenze, weil ich denke, dass das Wort Ehe eine große kulturelle Bedeutung hat. Çizgiyi çizdiğim yer burası çünkü evliliğin içinde çok fazla kültürel öneme sahip olduğunu düşünüyorum. It has been around for a long, long time. Es gibt es schon lange, lange. それは長い間存在してきました。 Uzun, uzun zamandır etrafta. So, what we’re really saying is that, and I think this is the crux of the matter, that the gays want to say our marriage, our union is as natural, as honorable, as wonderful as any other union. Was wir also wirklich sagen, ist das, und ich denke, das ist der Kern der Sache, dass die Schwulen unsere Ehe sagen wollen, unsere Vereinigung ist so natürlich, so ehrenhaft, so wunderbar wie jede andere Vereinigung. Donc, ce que nous disons vraiment, c'est que, et je pense que c'est le nœud du problème, que les gays veulent dire que notre mariage, notre union est aussi naturelle, aussi honorable, aussi merveilleuse que n'importe quelle autre union. ですから、私たちが本当に言っているのは、これが問題の核心だと思います。同性愛者は私たちの結婚を言いたいのです。私たちの組合は他の組合と同じように自然で、名誉であり、素晴らしいものです。

Jill: Right.

Steve: And, that’s what I don’t agree with because the marriage of one man and one woman is pretty fundamental to our society. Steve: Und dem stimme ich nicht zu, weil die Ehe von einem Mann und einer Frau für unsere Gesellschaft ziemlich grundlegend ist. Steve: Ve ben de aynı fikirde değilim, çünkü bir erkeğin ve bir kadının evliliği toplumumuz için oldukça temeldir.

Jill: And our survival. Jill: Und unser Überleben.

Steve: Now, don’t agree with me. Steve: Jetzt stimme mir nicht zu. Steve: Şimdi, benimle aynı fikirde olma. You’re supposed to disagree. Du sollst nicht zustimmen. Buna katılmamalısın. So, and I think we have evolved to a situation where we think the marriage of one man and one woman is, can be a fairly equal relationship. Also, und ich denke, wir haben uns zu einer Situation entwickelt, in der wir glauben, dass die Ehe eines Mannes und einer Frau eine ziemlich gleichberechtigte Beziehung sein kann. ですから、私たちは一人の男性と一人の女性の結婚がかなり平等な関係になり得ると私たちが考える状況に進化したと思います。 Yani, sanırım, bir erkeğin ve bir kadının evliliğinin olduğunu düşündüğümüz bir duruma oldukça eşit bir ilişki olabileceğini düşündük. One man and ten women, you know or one woman and ten men, we don’t think that’s good. Un homme et dix femmes, vous savez ou une femme et dix hommes, nous ne pensons pas que ce soit bien. Bir erkek ve on kadın, biliyorsunuz ya da bir kadın ve on erkek, bunun iyi olduğunu düşünmüyoruz.

Jill: No.

Steve: No. One man and one woman, we think that’s kind of healthy. Ein Mann und eine Frau, wir finden das irgendwie gesund. Bir erkek ve bir kadın, bunun sağlıklı olduğunu düşünüyoruz. We think that’s good for the children, it provides a role model for sons and daughters. Wir denken, das ist gut für die Kinder, es ist ein Vorbild für Söhne und Töchter. We think that’s good so people like that. Wir finden das gut, also mögen die Leute das. Bunun iyi olduğunu düşünüyoruz, böylece insanlar böyle. They, that’s important to many people. Sie, das ist vielen Menschen wichtig. So, I understand that the gays are saying it’s important for us to be recognized as the same as that but in fact, in my opinion it’s not the same. So that’s where I feel that, and the problem is that once it’s recognized legally as the same then the gays will try to force various institutions such as religions to grant them the same status as you know, heterosexual you know, monogamous relationships because it’s now law and it’s their right and so forth and so on. Das ist der Punkt, an dem ich das fühle, und das Problem ist, dass die Schwulen, sobald es rechtlich als dasselbe anerkannt ist, versuchen werden, verschiedene Institutionen wie Religionen zu zwingen, ihnen den gleichen Status zu gewähren, wie Sie wissen, heterosexuell, wie Sie wissen, monogame Beziehungen, weil es jetzt ist Gesetz und es ist ihr Recht und so weiter und so fort. C'est donc là que je ressens cela, et le problème est qu'une fois que c'est reconnu légalement comme tel, les gays essaieront de forcer diverses institutions telles que les religions à leur accorder le même statut que vous savez, les relations hétérosexuelles vous savez, les relations monogames parce que c'est maintenant loi et c'est leur droit et ainsi de suite et ainsi de suite. だから私はそれを感じます、そして問題はそれが法的に同じであると認められると、同性愛者はあなたが知っているのと同じステータス、あなたが知っている異性愛者、一夫一婦制の関係を彼らに与えるように宗教などのさまざまな機関に強制しようとすることです法律とそれは彼らの権利などです。 İşte bu, bunu hissettiğim yer ve sorun şu ki, yasal olarak aynı şekilde tanındığında, geyler, dinler gibi çeşitli kurumları bildiğiniz gibi aynı statüleri vermeye zorlayacaklar, bildiğiniz heteroseksüel, tek eşli ilişkiler, çünkü şimdi hukuk ve bu onların sağ ve öylesine vb.

So, I just think it’s not necessary. Yani, sadece gerekli olmadığını düşünüyorum. I think, I have nothing against gays and they can live their lives however they want but I think that by the same token they should just respect this very, very universal and long standing institution of marriage. Bence eşcinsellere karşı hiçbir şeyim yok ve istedikleri gibi hayatlarını yaşayabiliyorlar ama bence aynı şekilde, bu çok, çok evrensel ve uzun süredir devam eden evliliğe saygı duymalılar.

Jill: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I can definitely understand that perspective however I think that, I mean the institution of marriage has changed a lot over the years and it’s, I mean people are getting divorced constantly. Jill: Ja, ja, ich meine, ich kann diese Perspektive definitiv verstehen, aber ich denke, ich meine, die Institution der Ehe hat sich im Laufe der Jahre sehr verändert und ich meine, die Leute werden ständig geschieden. Jill: Evet, evet, demek istediğim, bu perspektifi kesinlikle anlayabiliyorum, ama sanırım evlilik kurumu yıllar içinde çok değişti ve bu, insanların sürekli boşandıkları anlamına geliyor. People are getting married five times and so I think to a lot of people it doesn’t mean very much and they just do it then it’s easy to undo it and I think that there could be gay people who might it might mean more to them than some heterosexual people and they may still want to be parents and they could be very good parents. Die Leute heiraten fünfmal und deshalb denke ich, dass es für viele Leute nicht sehr viel bedeutet und sie es einfach tun, dann ist es einfach, es rückgängig zu machen und ich denke, dass es schwule Leute geben könnte, die es ihnen vielleicht mehr bedeuten könnten als einige heterosexuelle Menschen und sie möchten vielleicht immer noch Eltern sein und sie könnten sehr gute Eltern sein. Les gens se marient cinq fois et donc je pense que pour beaucoup de gens, cela ne signifie pas grand-chose et ils le font simplement, puis il est facile de le défaire et je pense qu'il pourrait y avoir des homosexuels qui pourraient signifier plus pour eux que certaines personnes hétérosexuelles et ils peuvent toujours vouloir être parents et ils pourraient être de très bons parents. İnsanlar beş kez evleniyorlar ve bu yüzden çok fazla insanın çok fazla bir şey ifade etmediğini düşünüyorum ve sadece bunu yapmak çok kolay oluyor ve bence bu insanlar için daha fazlası anlamına gelebilecek eşcinsel insanlar olabileceğini düşünüyorum. Bazı heteroseksüel insanlardan daha fazla ve hala ebeveyn olmak isteyebilirler ve çok iyi ebeveynler olabilirler. They could be very good role models. Sie könnten sehr gute Vorbilder sein.

There’s a lot of terrible parents out there that are heterosexual and that are married and have you know raised bad children or not good parents and so I just, yeah, I think that basically they should be given the same opportunity. Es gibt viele schreckliche Eltern da draußen, die heterosexuell und verheiratet sind und wissen, dass sie schlechte Kinder oder keine guten Eltern großgezogen haben, und deshalb denke ich, dass ihnen im Grunde die gleiche Chance gegeben werden sollte.

Steve: Okay. Steve: Okay. Certainly I think there is a lot to what you are saying and that is that the hallowed institution of marriage may in fact contain all kinds of problems and we read some of the worst stories of child abuse and who knows what that happen and spouse abuse and so forth that happens in our traditional heterosexual marriages. Sicherlich denke ich, dass das, was Sie sagen, viel beinhaltet, und das heißt, dass die geheiligte Institution der Ehe tatsächlich alle Arten von Problemen enthalten kann, und wir lesen einige der schlimmsten Geschichten über Kindesmissbrauch und wer weiß, was passiert und Ehegattenmissbrauch und so weiter, das passiert in unseren traditionellen heterosexuellen Ehen. Je pense certainement qu'il y a beaucoup de choses dans ce que vous dites et c'est que l'institution sacrée du mariage peut en fait contenir toutes sortes de problèmes et nous lisons certaines des pires histoires de maltraitance d'enfants et qui sait ce qui se passe et de violence conjugale et ainsi de suite qui se passe dans nos mariages hétérosexuels traditionnels. 確かに私はあなたが言っていることに多くのことがあると思います、そしてそれは結婚の神聖な制度が実際にあらゆる種類の問題を含むかもしれないということですそして私たちは児童虐待の最悪の話のいくつかを読みますそして誰がそれが起こるかを知っていてそして配偶者虐待とそれは私たちの伝統的な異性愛者の結婚で起こります。 Elbette söylediklerinize çok şey geldiğini düşünüyorum ve kutsal evlilik kurumunun aslında her türlü problemi içerebileceği ve çocuk istismarının en kötü hikayelerini okuduğumuzu ve bunun ne olduğunu ve eşini kötüye kullandığını bilen biri olduğunu düşünüyorum. geleneksel heteroseksüel evliliklerimizde böyle oluyor. And, it is true that divorce is more and more common but I think recognizing gay marriage is just one more sort of stone thrown at the institution of marriage. Und es ist wahr, dass eine Scheidung immer häufiger vorkommt, aber ich denke, die Anerkennung der Homo-Ehe ist nur eine weitere Art Stein, der auf die Institution der Ehe geworfen wird. Ve boşanmanın gittikçe yaygın olduğu doğrudur ama eşcinsel evliliğin tanınmasının evlilik kurumunda atılan bir tür taş olduğunu düşünüyorum.

I also have a problem of the idea of gays adopting children or in the case of lesbians, artificially inseminating themselves. Ich habe auch ein Problem mit der Idee, dass Schwule Kinder adoptieren oder sich bei Lesben künstlich besamen. Ik heb ook een probleem met het idee dat homo's kinderen adopteren of, in het geval van lesbiennes, zichzelf kunstmatig insemineren. Ayrıca çocukları evlat edinen eşcinsellerin ya da lezbiyenlerin kendilerini yapay olarak döllemesi söz konusu olduğunda da bir sorunum var. I guess you could have theoretically two pregnant partners. Ich denke, Sie könnten theoretisch zwei schwangere Partner haben.

Jill: Yeah, you could. Jill: Ja, du könntest.

Steve: You know, it just gets away from what’s natural. Steve: Weißt du, es geht einfach weg von dem, was natürlich ist. Steve : Vous savez, ça s'éloigne de ce qui est naturel. Steve: Biliyorsun, sadece doğal olandan uzaklaşıyor. What’s natural is not necessarily always good. Was natürlich ist, ist nicht unbedingt immer gut. Doğal olan şey her zaman iyi değildir. There are nasty animals. Es gibt böse Tiere. Er zijn vervelende dieren. Kötü hayvanlar var. There are animals that eat their young, you know what I mean? Es gibt Tiere, die ihre Jungen fressen, weißt du was ich meine? There are gay animals. Es gibt schwule Tiere. Il y a des animaux homosexuels.

Jill: Antibiotics are not natural. Jill: Antibiotika sind nicht natürlich. Jill : Les antibiotiques ne sont pas naturels. Jill: Antibiyotikler doğal değildir. I mean there’s lots of things that are … Ich meine, es gibt viele Dinge, die…

Steve: No, No but I’m saying even within what is natural it’s not all good. Steve: Nein, nein, aber ich sage, auch wenn das Natürliche nicht alles gut ist. Steve : Non, non, mais je dis que même dans ce qui est naturel, tout n'est pas bon. Steve: Hayır, hayır ama doğal olanın içinde bile iyi olmadığını söylüyorum.

Jill: No, it’s not all good and, Jill: Nein, es ist nicht alles gut und Jill: Hayır, her şey iyi değil ve

Steve: It’s not all good and so there’s all kinds, I mean nature is not necessarily moral. Steve: Es ist nicht alles gut und es gibt alle Arten, ich meine, die Natur ist nicht unbedingt moralisch.

Jill: No. Jill: Nein.

Steve: It just is. But, to me, I’m a bit of a traditionalist and I always hope that one day the divorce rate will start going the other way, that we’ll have less and less divorce. Aber für mich bin ich ein bisschen ein Traditionalist und ich hoffe immer, dass eines Tages die Scheidungsrate in die andere Richtung geht, dass wir uns immer weniger scheiden lassen. Mais, pour moi, je suis un peu traditionaliste et j'espère toujours qu'un jour le taux de divorce commencera à s'inverser, qu'il y aura de moins en moins de divorces. I think a large part of the high divorce rate is this whole everything for me now kind of attitude that I tend to believe comes from our pop culture and so forth but I can’t prove it. Ich denke, ein großer Teil der hohen Scheidungsrate ist alles für mich, jetzt eine Art Einstellung, von der ich glaube, dass sie aus unserer Popkultur stammt und so weiter, aber ich kann es nicht beweisen. Je pense qu'une grande partie du taux de divorce élevé est tout ce genre d'attitude pour moi maintenant que j'ai tendance à croire vient de notre culture pop et ainsi de suite, mais je ne peux pas le prouver. Yüksek boşanma oranının büyük bir kısmı bence bu benim için her şey her zaman benim için bir şeydir ve benim pop kültürümüzden geldiğine inanıyorum ama bunu kanıtlayamıyorum. But, so, no, I think that the fact that gays are not persecuted is a good thing. Aber nein, ich denke, dass die Tatsache, dass Schwule nicht verfolgt werden, eine gute Sache ist. Ama, hayır, gayler, zalimlerin zulmedilmediği gerçeğinin iyi bir şey olduğunu düşünüyorum. In fact, and ideally people who are gay at work and in very different situations, I don’t ask people who might be my employees or whom I deal with whether they are gay or not. Tatsächlich und im Idealfall Menschen, die bei der Arbeit und in sehr unterschiedlichen Situationen schwul sind, frage ich keine Menschen, die meine Angestellten sein könnten oder mit denen ich zu tun habe, ob sie schwul sind oder nicht. En fait, et idéalement à des personnes homosexuelles au travail et dans des situations très différentes, je ne demande pas aux gens qui pourraient être mes employés ou avec qui je traite s'ils sont homosexuels ou non. 実際、理想的には、職場でゲイであり、状況が大きく異なる人々は、私の従業員である可能性のある人々や、私が扱っている人々に、彼らがゲイであるかどうかを尋ねません。 Насправді, і в ідеалі у людей, які є геями на роботі і в дуже різних ситуаціях, я не питаю людей, які можуть бути моїми співробітниками або з ким я маю справу, є вони геями чи ні. If they happen to introduce me to their partner without happens to be of the same sex then okay. Wenn sie mich ihrem Partner vorstellen, ohne zufällig das gleiche Geschlecht zu haben, dann okay. S'il leur arrive de me présenter à leur partenaire sans être du même sexe alors d'accord. Beni eşleriyle tanıştırırlarsa, aynı cinsiyetten olmayacaklarsa, o zaman tamam. Якщо вони випадково познайомлять мене зі своїм партнером, який, випадково, не однієї статі, тоді добре. None of that bothers me at all. Nichts davon stört mich überhaupt. Rien de tout cela ne me dérange du tout. Hiçbiri beni rahatsız etmiyor.

I just think there is a certain militancy sometimes on the part of gays and maybe that’s normal in any situation where people have been subject to some degree of persecution and you’ll have a sort of a militancy that kind of goes too far the other way. Ich denke nur, dass Homosexuelle manchmal eine gewisse Militanz haben, und vielleicht ist das in jeder Situation normal, in der Menschen einem gewissen Grad an Verfolgung ausgesetzt waren und Sie eine Art Militanz haben, die zu weit in die andere Richtung geht . Je pense juste qu'il y a parfois un certain militantisme de la part des homosexuels et c'est peut-être normal dans toute situation où les gens ont été victimes d'un certain degré de persécution et vous aurez une sorte de militantisme qui va trop loin dans l'autre sens . Ben sadece eşcinseller üzerinde belirli bir militanlık olduğunu düşünüyorum ve belki de insanların bir dereceye kadar zulme maruz kaldığı her durumda bu normaldir ve bir çeşit militanlığa sahip olacaksınız. . And I see nothing wrong with some kind of a civil union and similar tax breaks for gays as long as there is a commitment, you know to a long term relationship. Et je ne vois rien de mal à une sorte d'union civile et à des allégements fiscaux similaires pour les gays tant qu'il y a un engagement, vous savez, à une relation à long terme. Ve bir tür sivil sendikaya ve eşcinseller için benzer vergi indirimlerine yanlış bir şey görmüyorum, bir taahhüt söz konusu olduğu sürece, uzun vadeli bir ilişki olduğunu biliyorsunuz.

Now, you could argue that nothing prevents heterosexuals from having a marriage of convenience for any number of tax advantages. Maintenant, vous pourriez soutenir que rien n'empêche les hétérosexuels d'avoir un mariage de complaisance pour un certain nombre d'avantages fiscaux. A marriage of convenience, a divorce of convenience, all this kind of stuff. Eine Vernunftehe, eine Scheidung der Bequemlichkeit, all diese Dinge. Kolaylık, boşanma, boşanma gibi bir evlilik. Whether it be for immigration reasons, social welfare reasons, I mean there is so much abuse and stuff everywhere so I’m not suggesting that heterosexual people are better than gays but I just think the institution of marriage to me, although if I’m perfectly honest, it doesn’t matter or bother me at all. Ob aus Gründen der Einwanderung oder aus Gründen der sozialen Wohlfahrt, ich meine, es gibt überall so viel Missbrauch und so, also behaupte ich nicht, dass heterosexuelle Menschen besser sind als Schwule, aber ich denke nur, dass die Institution der Ehe mit mir ist, obwohl ich es bin Ganz ehrlich, es spielt keine Rolle oder stört mich überhaupt nicht. Que ce soit pour des raisons d'immigration, des raisons d'aide sociale, je veux dire qu'il y a tellement d'abus et d'autres choses partout, donc je ne dis pas que les hétérosexuels sont meilleurs que les homosexuels, mais je pense juste que l'institution du mariage pour moi, bien que si je suis parfaitement honnête, cela n'a pas d'importance ou ne me dérange pas du tout. Göçmenlik nedenleriyle olsun, sosyal refah nedenleri, yani her yerde çok fazla taciz ve malzeme var demek istiyorum, bu yüzden heteroseksüel insanların geylerden daha iyi olduğunu öne sürmüyorum ama ben sadece evliliğimi düşünüyorum. Tamamen dürüst, hiç önemli değil ya da beni rahatsız ediyor.

Jill: You’re just taking that side. Jill: Du nimmst nur diese Seite.

Steve: No, no, no, I’m saying I do believe the institution of marriage is important. Steve: Nein, nein, nein, ich sage, ich glaube, die Institution der Ehe ist wichtig. Now I’m saying whatever you feel but the fact that gays are allowed to call themselves married doesn’t affect in any way how I feel about my own marriage. Jetzt sage ich, was auch immer Sie fühlen, aber die Tatsache, dass Schwule sich als verheiratet bezeichnen dürfen, hat keinerlei Einfluss darauf, wie ich mich in Bezug auf meine eigene Ehe fühle. Maintenant, je dis tout ce que vous pensez, mais le fait que les homosexuels soient autorisés à se dire mariés n'affecte en rien ce que je ressens à propos de mon propre mariage. Şimdi söylediğinizi söylüyorum ama eşcinsellerin kendilerini evliliğe bırakmalarına izin verilmesi, kendi evliliğimi nasıl hissettiğimi etkilemez.

Jill: No, exactly. Jill: Nein genau.

Steve: No impact. Steve: Keine Auswirkungen. Steve: Etkisi yok. But it does, I just kind of feel somewhere that in our society, I just feel that the institution of marriage should be kind of Aber ich habe das Gefühl, dass in unserer Gesellschaft die Institution der Ehe eine Art Institution sein sollte

Jill: Sacred. Jill: Heilig.

Steve: Buttressed a little bit. Steve: Ein bisschen gestützt. Steve : Renforcé un peu. Steve: Een beetje geschraagd. Steve: Biraz alçaltılmış. Helped along a little bit and shouldn’t be so easy to divorce, you know and all the different things that go on. Hat ein bisschen geholfen und sollte nicht so einfach zu scheiden sein, weißt du und all die verschiedenen Dinge, die vor sich gehen. J'ai aidé un peu et ça ne devrait pas être si facile de divorcer, vous savez, et toutes les différentes choses qui se passent.

Jill: Well I agree with you there for sure, yeah. Jill: Nun, da stimme ich dir sicher zu, ja. Jill: Sana katılıyorum elbette, evet.

Steve: You know? Steve: Weißt du? I think it was Napoleon that said you know, Jill we always end up agreeing at the end. Je pense que c'est Napoléon qui a dit tu sais, Jill on finit toujours par être d'accord à la fin. You ought to get something. Du solltest etwas bekommen. Vous devriez obtenir quelque chose.

Jill: Get a topic where we really do disagree. Jill: Holen Sie sich ein Thema, bei dem wir uns wirklich nicht einig sind. Jill : Choisissez un sujet sur lequel nous ne sommes vraiment pas d'accord.

Steve: Totally disagree. Steve: Stimme überhaupt nicht zu. We’ll find something that’s nastier. Wir werden etwas finden, das böser ist. On trouvera quelque chose de plus méchant. But, what were we talking about? Aber worüber haben wir gesprochen? Oh yeah, Napoleon once said that if you allow women to, if you allow divorce, divorce will happen. Oh ja, Napoleon hat einmal gesagt, wenn Sie Frauen erlauben, wenn Sie sich scheiden lassen, wird eine Scheidung stattfinden. Oh oui, Napoléon a dit un jour que si vous autorisez les femmes, si vous autorisez le divorce, le divorce se produira. I mean there’s something to be said for that. Ich meine, dafür gibt es etwas zu sagen. Je veux dire qu'il y a quelque chose à dire pour ça. Demek istediğim, bunun için söylenecek bir şey var. If it’s just not an option or it’s very difficult to get a divorce people will find, Wenn es einfach keine Option ist oder es sehr schwierig ist, sich scheiden zu lassen, werden die Leute finden, Si ce n'est tout simplement pas une option ou s'il est très difficile d'obtenir un divorce, les gens trouveront,

Jill: People will work it out. Jill: Die Leute werden es schaffen. Jill : Les gens s'en sortiront.

Steve: They’ll find other solutions. Steve: Sie werden andere Lösungen finden. So. So. We’ll talk about that next time. Wir werden das nächste Mal darüber reden.

Hey, listen we forgot to say that this is EnglishLingQ.com so those of you who are hearing this you can also go to the website EnglishLingQ.com where you will find a transcript. Hey, hör zu, wir haben vergessen zu sagen, dass dies EnglishLingQ.com ist. Diejenigen von euch, die dies hören, können auch auf die Website EnglishLingQ.com gehen, wo ihr ein Transkript finden. ねえ、これはEnglishLingQ.comだと言うのを忘れていたので、これを聞いている人は、ウェブサイトEnglishLingQ.comにアクセスしてトランスクリプトを見つけることもできます。 Hey, bunu İngilizceLingQ.com olduğunu söylemeyi unutma, böylece bunu duyanların da bir transkript bulabileceğiniz EnglishLingQ.com web sitesine gidebilirsin. And, if you’re really clever you will join the Linguist so that you can learn the words and phrases that will help you when you have to argue with someone in English. Und wenn Sie wirklich schlau sind, treten Sie dem Linguisten bei, damit Sie die Wörter und Sätze lernen können, die Ihnen helfen, wenn Sie mit jemandem auf Englisch streiten müssen. そして、あなたが本当に賢いなら、あなたは言語学者に加わって、あなたが英語で誰かと議論しなければならないときにあなたを助ける単語やフレーズを学ぶことができるでしょう。 And, hopefully your argument will be more heart felt than the one I’ve just had with Jill. Und hoffentlich wird Ihre Auseinandersetzung herzlicher sein als die, die ich gerade mit Jill hatte. Et j'espère que votre dispute sera plus sincère que celle que je viens d'avoir avec Jill. そして、うまくいけば、あなたの議論は、私がジルと一緒にしたばかりの議論よりも心から感じられるでしょう。 Ve umarım argümanınız sadece Jill'le yaptığımdan daha fazla kalp hissi verecektir.

Jill: Yeah. Jill: Ja.

Steve: Where we always agree. Steve: Wo wir uns immer einig sind. Okay. In Ordnung.

Jill: Alright. Jill: In Ordnung. Bye, bye. Tschüss.

Steve: Bye.