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English LingQ Podcast 1.0, Fifty-one: Motivation and Language Learning

Fifty-one: Motivation and Language Learning

Steve: Hi Jill.

Jill: Hi Steve.

Steve: I was reading at LingQ.com where our members are starting to contribute content.

There was one content item submitted by one of our members who happens to live in Germany. She submitted a content item that was called Speak White. It's mostly in French with a few English words in it and it's a poem by a Quebecois, that is someone from Quebec, a French speaking person from Quebec in Canada and it's available on LingQ so people can download it and listen to it in French but basically the theme is one that English represents colonialism and that the, of course, from the perspective, or let's put it this way, the mythology of the Quebecois is that they are somehow a colonized people. And, I think historically that's true but today if you look at the statistics French speaking Quebecers earn as much, more money in fact. Bilingual Quebecers earn more money than bilingual; excuse me, bilingual Francophones in Quebec have a higher average income than bilingual Anglophones in Quebec.

Monolingual, unilingual Anglophones in Quebec earn more than unilingual Francophones but on average they do just as well. So, I think today, I don't think the Quebecois really are in a, in reality they run their own province, and run their own affairs but historically of course, the French were defeated in a battle in the year 1763 and as a result Quebec became part of the British empire so there is this whole we were colonized by the English and therefore, of course, in this very kind of, deliberately inflammatory language, speak white to see how all the sort of colonialism, racism, whatever. Fine, she's a poet. She can do what she wants.

But, in reading that of course, we believe at the Linguist and the reason we've developed LingQ.com is because we think everybody should learn other languages. I agree that the overwhelming influence of English is a form of cultural imperialism. It doesn't have to be deliberate but the fact is that English is so convenient. People speak it in India, they speak it in the Middle East, they speak it in Africa, even in Europe it's become the dominant language for a variety of historical and economic reasons.

One of our goals and I set this out in my book that I wrote five years ago, that anyone can be a linguist. Anyone can learn more than one language. In some ways Anglophones have an advantage in that other people have to learn their language but they are at a disadvantage because they are not as motivated to learn other languages because they don't need to.

So, that's all a lead up Jill, to a hopefully an embarrassing question and that is, you are an Anglophone but you speak French and you have dabbled in Spanish. But, would it be fair to say that today you're not tremendously motivated to either improve your French or to work more on your Spanish or on another language?

Jill: Yeah, that's fair. I think there's part of me that would really like to improve my French. I mean, I really haven't used it for five or six years, since I've been out of university and I love the language. I think it's a beautiful language and when I listen to it I really like hearing it and I wish that I was completely fluent in it.

After the many years that I spent learning it, over 20 years, I have to say that I still would not consider myself fluent. I have a good grasp for sure of the language and I want to learn it better but I think I'm like many people who say they want to learn English or they want to learn a language but when it comes to actually putting in the effort, and I hear this all the time from people on the Linguist and now LingQ. Not everybody because some people are very motivated but from some people they say you know, I just don't have time. You hear that from a lot of people.

I know that I sort of, I would use the same excuse. You know, you're busy. You work all day, you have time to spend, you have to have time to spend with your family, you might have to make dinner, you might have a long commute, whatever, but again, I could listen on my way to and from work just as almost everybody could. But, you know, when it comes down to it I'd rather listen to music on my way to and from work. That's more relaxing to me.

So, when I say that I would like to improve my French, I would, but I'd really like it to be very easy. I don't really want to put in a lot of effort and I think that's a lot of people.

Steve: Now, for me, because I'm, of course, a language fanatic, I enjoy it. I would rather listen to Russian now than to music. If I go running I listen to Russian. If I'm in my car I listen to Russian.

One thing I do believe is that, you know, different people have different interests. I am not into gardening. I don't know one flower from the next. I‘m not that keen on golf. My wife is very keen on golf. Yeah, people have their interests and I don't think there's anything more noble about being interested in languages as opposed to being interested in cooking. In fact, cooking, I'm not into cooking but I sure enjoy eating other people's cooking.

So, yeah, you're interested in what you're interested in, absolutely. One thing I would say though is that a lot of things are a matter of habit. So, once you get into an activity, motivated by whatever, like if I told you Jill, that we were opening an office in Paris but the condition for us to send you there is that you have to improve your French, tell me what you would do

Jill: I think I would do it. I think I would. I'd be over the moon, I'd be excited, I'd want to do it and I'd want to be better when I went there. I wouldn't want to go there either without having a better working knowledge and so, yeah, I think I would be more motivated.

Steve: And, I think there that once you got into it you would start to enjoy actually learning it. But, yeah, you need something to kick-start that interest. This is true. And, it can be a friend, it can be a trip, it can be an interest in the culture, it can be a, whatever, any of those things. So, yeah, the question is how do we get that started with people?

I think we are lucky at the Linguist and at LingQ because many of our learners are motivated party for professional reasons or for their education or because they need to pass a test but many of them out of pure interest and they enjoy it. And that's, you know, somebody came up in schools, what do you do in schools? What do you do with kids who have to be there? You know? They don't have, they're sitting in a classroom and now it's French. Any ideas there? How do you get a 14 year old boy or girl, it doesn't matter, what can you do to make say French or any language? Would it matter if they were able to choose the language or is it just for someone living in North America, English speaking North America, basically other languages don't matter? Do you think that's part of it?

Jill: Yeah, I don't know. Probably part of it is that, that it's just so easy to get by with only knowing English and I think that's probably why most North Americans or Canadians and Americans only speak English is because yeah, you can go anywhere in the world and probably get by with your English which is, I think a bit sad because I think there is a lot, I think it's very interesting to learn another language because you learn a lot about the culture and that was always my favorite part.

I hated the classes that focused on grammar. I just couldn't stand going to them even in university. You know, I never, I don't think I improved from probably grade five to my fourth year of university in terms of my grammar in French. You know, even after having so many classes that were focused on grammar and university courses focused on grammar, I hated going to them. They were so boring, so dry and it didn't help me. And, I think that the classes that I loved were the ones where we got into the cultural stuff and not, and other people are different. Some people, I guess, maybe like grammar and maybe aren't so interested in festivals and cultural norms and things but for me, I'm very interested in that which makes the language more interesting to me.

Steve: But then, getting back to the level of a 14 year old, you know, in countries like Sweden or Holland where all television shows are in the original language they learn their English through television. But, there again, we get back to our original discussion and that is the sort of cultural imperialism of English speaking culture.

Everybody in the world has heard of some of these start of Hollywood or the pop stars and whoever they all are. I don't even know their names myself but we don't know who are the leading Arabic singers or Chinese singers or French even. We don't know who they are so it doesn't have the same attraction. I guess there's not much we can do there.

Jill: Yeah and with young people, going back to young people I think so many kids and teenagers are too young to see the benefit of learning another language and it's just something that's work and I think some people do enjoy their French class or whatever class, whatever language they're learning in school because some people are more inclined towards artsy type classes. But, I think there are some people that may never enjoy learning a new language. Not everybody wants to learn a language.

Steve: You know and this is where, what I would do in schools because a lot of people take music from the age of let's say five to 12 and then they, after much, many tears and scenes they're allowed to quit. That was my case.

But, when kids are very young they'll do whatever you tell them to do. And, I think what they should do is they should have language in the early years and it should not be limited to one language like in Canada, it's French because it's national language. It should be, let them try out a variety of different languages, let them listen to stories and you can do it in a variety of ways. You can listen to a story in the language and read it in your own so you get used to the sounds. And, just expose kids to language through the first five, six, seven years of schooling and then if they want to continue, fine. If they don't want to continue fine.

Once they've had that exposure to the language, if at age 20 they decide to learn a language they will be better language learners. And, I think all you need to do is to prepare their brains so that at that point when they become motivated to learn that they will learn more quickly. They'll have an easier time pronouncing, their brain will be more flexible, that's all.

But, what we do right now, at least in the Canadian school system, 95% of the kids who study French in the English language school system end up not being able to speak at all so it's completely useless. They're far better off to have this early exposure just as, you know, a boy might play the violin or a girl play the piano and then at age 12 he or she is allowed to quit and that's the end of it. But, if they ever do decide to go back to it they have something there that they can really, you know, that's going to help them.

Jill: Right.

Steve: Maybe one day we'll set up LingQ Junior. It's my next project once we get all our problems resolved here. Okay then. Thanks Jill.

Jill: Thank you.


Fifty-one: Motivation and Language Learning

Steve: Hi Jill.

Jill: Hi Steve.

Steve: I was reading at LingQ.com where our members are starting to contribute content. Steve: Üyelerimizin içerik oluşturmaya başladığı LingQ.com'da okuyordum.

There was one content item submitted by one of our members who happens to live in Germany. Almanya'da yaşayan üyelerimizden biri tarafından sunulan bir içerik öğesi vardı. She submitted a content item that was called Speak White. Speak White adlı bir içerik öğesi sundu. It’s mostly in French with a few English words in it and it’s a poem by a Quebecois, that is someone from Quebec, a French speaking person from Quebec in Canada and it’s available on LingQ so people can download it and listen to it in French but basically the theme is one that English represents colonialism and that the, of course, from the perspective, or let’s put it this way, the mythology of the Quebecois is that they are somehow a colonized people. Çoğunlukla Fransızca birkaç ingilizce kelime ile ve bu bir Quebecois tarafından bir şiir, bu Quebec'ten biri, Kanada'da Quebec'ten Fransızca konuşan bir kişi ve LingQ'da kullanılabilir, böylece insanlar bunu indirebilir ve Fransızca olarak dinleyebilir ancak temelde tema, İngilizcenin sömürgeciliği temsil ettiği ve elbette, perspektiften ya da bu şekilde söyleyebildiğidir, Quebecois'in mitolojisi, bir şekilde sömürgeleştirilmiş insanlar olduklarıdır. And, I think historically that’s true but today if you look at the statistics French speaking Quebecers earn as much, more money in fact. Und ich denke, historisch gesehen stimmt das, aber heute, wenn man sich die Statistiken ansieht, verdienen französischsprachige Quebecer genauso viel, tatsächlich mehr Geld. Ve, tarihsel olarak bu doğru olduğunu düşünüyorum ama bugün Fransızca konuşan istatistiklere bakarsanız, Quebecers aslında daha fazla para kazanır. Bilingual Quebecers earn more money than bilingual; excuse me, bilingual Francophones in Quebec have a higher average income than bilingual Anglophones in Quebec. Zweisprachige Quebecer verdienen mehr Geld als zweisprachig; Entschuldigung, zweisprachige Frankophone in Quebec haben ein höheres Durchschnittseinkommen als zweisprachige Anglophone in Quebec. İki dilli Quebecliler iki dilliden daha fazla para kazanırlar; Affedersiniz, Quebec'te iki dilli Frankofonlar, Quebec'teki iki dilli Anglofonlardan daha yüksek ortalama gelirlere sahiptir.

Monolingual, unilingual Anglophones in Quebec earn more than unilingual Francophones but on average they do just as well. Einsprachige, einsprachige Anglophone in Quebec verdienen mehr als einsprachige Frankophone, aber im Durchschnitt sind sie genauso gut. Quebec'teki tek dilli, tek dilli Anglofonlar, tek dilli Frankofonlardan daha fazla para kazanıyorlar ancak ortalamada da aynı şeyi yapıyorlar. So, I think today, I don’t think the Quebecois really are in a, in reality they run their own province, and run their own affairs but historically of course, the French were defeated in a battle in the year 1763 and as a result Quebec became part of the British empire so there is this whole we were colonized by the English and therefore, of course, in this very kind of, deliberately inflammatory language, speak white to see how all the sort of colonialism, racism, whatever. Also, ich denke heute, ich glaube nicht, dass die Quebecois wirklich in einer sind, in Wirklichkeit führen sie ihre eigene Provinz und führen ihre eigenen Angelegenheiten, aber historisch gesehen wurden die Franzosen natürlich in einer Schlacht im Jahr 1763 und als Ergebnis Quebec wurde Teil des britischen Imperiums, also gibt es dieses Ganze, das wir von den Engländern kolonisiert wurden, und deshalb sprechen wir natürlich in dieser Art von absichtlich entzündlicher Sprache weiß, um zu sehen, wie all diese Art von Kolonialismus, Rassismus, was auch immer. Bence bugün, Quebecois'in gerçekte olduğunu düşünmüyorum, gerçekte kendi illerini yönetiyorlar ve kendi işlerini yapıyorlar ama tarihsel olarak elbette, Fransızlar 1763 yılında bir savaşta yenildiler. sonuç olarak Quebec, İngiliz imparatorluğunun bir parçası oldu, bu yüzden İngilizler tarafından kolonileştirildiğimiz ve bu nedenle, elbette, bu tür kasten iltihaplı bir dilde, tüm sömürgecilik, ırkçılık, her ne şekilde olursa olsun, beyaz konuştu. Fine, she’s a poet. Güzel, o bir şair. She can do what she wants. İstediği şeyi yapabilir.

But, in reading that of course, we believe at the Linguist and the reason we’ve developed LingQ.com is because we think everybody should learn other languages. Aber wenn wir das lesen, glauben wir natürlich an den Linguisten und der Grund, warum wir LingQ.com entwickelt haben, ist, dass wir denken, jeder sollte andere Sprachen lernen. Ancak, bunu okurken, dilbilimciye ve LingQ.com'u geliştirmemizin nedenine inanıyoruz çünkü herkesin başka dilleri öğrenmesi gerektiğini düşünüyoruz. I agree that the overwhelming influence of English is a form of cultural imperialism. Ich stimme zu, dass der überwältigende Einfluss des Englischen eine Form des kulturellen Imperialismus ist. İngilizlerin ezici etkisinin bir tür kültürel emperyalizm olduğunu kabul ediyorum. It doesn’t have to be deliberate but the fact is that English is so convenient. Es muss nicht absichtlich sein, aber Tatsache ist, dass Englisch so bequem ist. Kasıtlı olmak zorunda değil ama gerçek şu ki İngilizce çok uygun. People speak it in India, they speak it in the Middle East, they speak it in Africa, even in Europe it’s become the dominant language for a variety of historical and economic reasons. Die Leute sprechen es in Indien, sie sprechen es im Nahen Osten, sie sprechen es in Afrika, sogar in Europa ist es aus verschiedenen historischen und wirtschaftlichen Gründen die dominierende Sprache geworden. İnsanlar bunu Hindistan'da konuşurlar, bunu Orta Doğu'da konuşurlar, Afrika'da konuşurlar, hatta Avrupa'da çeşitli tarihsel ve ekonomik nedenlerle baskın bir dil haline gelir.

One of our goals and I set this out in my book that I wrote five years ago, that anyone can be a linguist. Een van onze doelen en ik heb dit uiteengezet in mijn boek dat ik vijf jaar geleden schreef, dat iedereen een taalkundige kan zijn. Hedeflerimizden biri ve bunu beş yıl önce yazdığım kitabımda, herkesin bir dilbilimci olabileceğini belirledim. Anyone can learn more than one language. 誰でも複数の言語を学ぶことができます。 In some ways Anglophones have an advantage in that other people have to learn their language but they are at a disadvantage because they are not as motivated to learn other languages because they don’t need to. In gewisser Weise haben Anglophone den Vorteil, dass andere Menschen ihre Sprache lernen müssen, aber sie sind im Nachteil, weil sie nicht so motiviert sind, andere Sprachen zu lernen, weil sie es nicht müssen. Bazı şekillerde, Anglofon'ların diğer insanların kendi dillerini öğrenmek zorunda olmaları açısından bir avantajı vardır, fakat onlar, başka dilleri öğrenmek için motive edilmedikleri için dezavantajlıdırlar çünkü ihtiyaç duymadıkları için.

So, that’s all a lead up Jill, to a hopefully an embarrassing question and that is, you are an Anglophone but you speak French and you have dabbled in Spanish. Das ist alles ein Hinweis auf Jill, auf eine hoffentlich peinliche Frage, und das heißt, Sie sind ein Anglophon, aber Sie sprechen Französisch und haben sich auf Spanisch versucht. Dus dat is allemaal een aanloop Jill, naar een hopelijk gênante vraag en dat wil zeggen, je bent een Engelstalige, maar je spreekt Frans en je hebt geploeterd in het Spaans. Öyleyse, bu hepsi bir uyandırıcı Jill, umarım utanç verici bir soruya ve bir Anglofon'tasınız ama Fransızca konuşabiliyorsunuz ve İspanyolca konuştunuz. But, would it be fair to say that today you’re not tremendously motivated to either improve your French or to work more on your Spanish or on another language? Aber wäre es fair zu sagen, dass Sie heute nicht besonders motiviert sind, Ihr Französisch zu verbessern oder mehr an Ihrem Spanisch oder einer anderen Sprache zu arbeiten? しかし、今日、あなたはフランス語を上達させたり、スペイン語や他の言語でもっと仕事をしたりする意欲が非常に低いと言っても過言ではないでしょうか。 Ancak, bugün Fransızca'nızı geliştirmek veya İspanyolca'nızda veya başka bir dilde daha fazla çalışmak için muazzam bir şekilde motive olmadığınızı söylemek adil olur mu?

Jill: Yeah, that’s fair. ジル:ええ、それは公平です Jill: Evet, bu adil. I think there’s part of me that would really like to improve my French. Sanırım Fransızca'mı geliştirmek isteyen bir parçam var. I mean, I really haven’t used it for five or six years, since I’ve been out of university and I love the language. Demek istediğim, beş ya da altı yıldır bunu kullanmadım, çünkü üniversiteden beri ve dili seviyorum. I think it’s a beautiful language and when I listen to it I really like hearing it and I wish that I was completely fluent in it. Bence bu güzel bir dil ve onu dinlediğimde gerçekten duymaktan hoşlanıyorum ve keşke tamamen akıcı olsaydım.

After the many years that I spent learning it, over 20 years, I have to say that I still would not consider myself fluent. Yıllarca öğrendiğimde, 20 yıldan uzun bir süre sonra, kendimi akıcı olarak düşünmeyeceğimi söylemeliyim. I have a good grasp for sure of the language and I want to learn it better but I think I’m like many people who say they want to learn English or they want to learn a language but when it comes to actually putting in the effort, and I hear this all the time from people on the Linguist and now LingQ. Ich verstehe die Sprache sehr gut und möchte sie besser lernen, aber ich denke, ich bin wie viele Leute, die sagen, sie wollen Englisch lernen oder sie wollen eine Sprache lernen, aber wenn es darum geht, sich tatsächlich anzustrengen , und ich höre das die ganze Zeit von Leuten auf dem Linguist und jetzt LingQ. Dilden emin olmak için iyi bir kavrayışım var ve bunu daha iyi öğrenmek istiyorum ama sanırım İngilizce öğrenmek istediklerini söyleyen ya da bir dil öğrenmek istediklerini söyleyen pek çok insan gibiyim. ve bunu her zaman Dilbilimci ve şimdi LingQ'daki insanlardan duyuyorum. Not everybody because some people are very motivated but from some people they say you know, I just don’t have time. Herkes değil, çünkü bazı insanlar çok motive olurlar ama bazı kişilerden bildiğini söylediler, sadece zamanım yok. You hear that from a lot of people.

I know that I sort of, I would use the same excuse. Bir çeşit biliyorum, aynı mazereti kullanırdım. You know, you’re busy. Sie sind beschäftigt. You work all day, you have time to spend, you have to have time to spend with your family, you might have to make dinner, you might have a long commute, whatever, but again, I could listen on my way to and from work just as almost everybody could. Sie arbeiten den ganzen Tag, Sie haben Zeit zum Verbringen, Sie müssen Zeit zum Verbringen mit Ihrer Familie haben, Sie müssen möglicherweise das Abendessen zubereiten, Sie müssen möglicherweise lange pendeln, was auch immer, aber ich könnte auf meinem Weg von und nach zuhören arbeiten so wie es fast jeder konnte. Bütün gün çalışıyorsunuz, harcayacağınız zamanınız var, ailenizle geçireceğiniz zamana sahip olmanız gerekiyor, akşam yemeği yapmak zorunda kalabilirsiniz, uzun bir işe gidip gelmeniz gerekebilir, ama yine de, yolumdan ve yoldan neredeyse herkesin yapabileceği gibi çalış. But, you know, when it comes down to it I’d rather listen to music on my way to and from work. Aber wenn es darauf ankommt, höre ich lieber Musik auf dem Weg zur und von der Arbeit. Ama bilirsin, işin başına geldiğinde müziği dinlemeyi tercih ederim. That’s more relaxing to me. Das ist entspannter für mich.

So, when I say that I would like to improve my French, I would, but I’d really like it to be very easy. Wenn ich also sage, dass ich mein Französisch verbessern möchte, würde ich es tun, aber ich möchte wirklich, dass es sehr einfach ist. Yani, Fransızcamı geliştirmek istediğimi söylediğimde, bunu çok isterdim, ama gerçekten çok kolay olmasını isterdim. I don’t really want to put in a lot of effort and I think that’s a lot of people. Ich möchte mich nicht wirklich anstrengen und ich denke, das sind viele Leute. Çok fazla çaba harcamak istemiyorum ve bence bu çok fazla insan.

Steve: Now, for me, because I’m, of course, a language fanatic, I enjoy it. Steve: Nun, für mich, weil ich natürlich ein Sprachfanatiker bin, genieße ich es. Steve: Şimdi, benim için, çünkü ben elbette, bir dil fanatikiyim, bundan zevk alıyorum. I would rather listen to Russian now than to music. Ich würde jetzt lieber Russisch hören als Musik. Şimdi Rusça'yı müzikten çok dinlemeyi tercih ederim. If I go running I listen to Russian. Eğer koşarsam Rusça dinlerim. If I’m in my car I listen to Russian. Wenn ich in meinem Auto bin, höre ich Russisch.

One thing I do believe is that, you know, different people have different interests. Ich glaube, dass verschiedene Menschen unterschiedliche Interessen haben. İnantığım bir şey, biliyorsunuz, farklı insanların farklı çıkarları var. I am not into gardening. Ich mag Gartenarbeit nicht. Ik ben niet van tuinieren. Bahçeye girmiyorum. I don’t know one flower from the next. Bundan sonra bir çiçek bilmiyorum. I‘m not that keen on golf. Ben golfe çok meraklı değilim. My wife is very keen on golf. Karım golfe çok düşkündür. Yeah, people have their interests and I don’t think there’s anything more noble about being interested in languages as opposed to being interested in cooking. Evet, insanların çıkarları var ve yemek pişirmekle ilgilenmek yerine, dillerle ilgilenmekten daha asil bir şey olduğunu düşünmüyorum. In fact, cooking, I’m not into cooking but I sure enjoy eating other people’s cooking. Eigenlijk, koken, ik hou niet van koken, maar ik geniet wel van het koken van andere mensen. Aslında, yemek pişirmeye çalışmıyorum ama diğer insanların yemeklerini yemeyi seviyorum.

So, yeah, you’re interested in what you’re interested in, absolutely. Yani, evet, ilgilendiğin şeylerle ilgileniyorsun, kesinlikle. One thing I would say though is that a lot of things are a matter of habit. Söylemek istediğim bir şey, pek çok şeyin bir alışkanlık meselesi olması. So, once you get into an activity, motivated by whatever, like if I told you Jill, that we were opening an office in Paris but the condition for us to send you there is that you have to improve your French, tell me what you would do Yani, bir kez, bir aktiviteye girdiğinizde, her ne olursa olsun, Jill'e söylediysem, Paris'te bir ofis açıyormuşuz gibi, ama size gönderilmemizin şartı, Fransızca'nızı geliştirmek zorunda olduğunuzu söyler. yapardım

Jill: I think I would do it. Jill: Sanırım yapardım. I think I would. Sanırım yapardım. I’d be over the moon, I’d be excited, I’d want to do it and I’d want to be better when I went there. Ayın üzerinde olurdum, heyecanlanırdım, yapmak isterdim ve oraya gittiğimde daha iyi olmak isterdim. I wouldn’t want to go there either without having a better working knowledge and so, yeah, I think I would be more motivated. Daha iyi bir çalışma bilgisine sahip olmadan oraya gitmek istemem ve bu yüzden, daha fazla motive olacağımı düşünüyorum.

Steve: And, I think there that once you got into it you would start to enjoy actually learning it. Steve: Ve, bence oraya girdikten sonra gerçekten öğrenmekten zevk almaya başlayacaksınız. But, yeah, you need something to kick-start that interest. Ama evet, bu ilgiyi başlatmak için bir şeye ihtiyacın var. This is true. And, it can be a friend, it can be a trip, it can be an interest in the culture, it can be a, whatever, any of those things. Ve, bir arkadaş olabilir, bir gezi olabilir, bu kültürün bir ilgisi olabilir, o, her ne olursa olsun, o şeylerden biri olabilir. So, yeah, the question is how do we get that started with people? Yani, evet, bu soru insanlarla nasıl başlayabiliriz?

I think we are lucky at the Linguist and at LingQ because many of our learners are motivated party for professional reasons or for their education or because they need to pass a test but many of them out of pure interest and they enjoy it. Dilbilimci ve LingQ'da şanslı olduğumuza inanıyorum çünkü öğrencilerimizin birçoğu profesyonel nedenlerden dolayı veya eğitimleri için motive olmuşlar ya da bir sınavı geçmeleri gerektiğinden, birçoğunun saf çıkarları dışında ve zevk aldıkları için. And that’s, you know, somebody came up in schools, what do you do in schools? Et c'est, vous savez, quelqu'un est venu dans les écoles, que faites-vous dans les écoles ? Ve biliyorsunuz, birileri okullarda ortaya çıktı, okullarda neler yapıyorsunuz? What do you do with kids who have to be there? Que faites-vous des enfants qui doivent être là ? Orada olmak zorunda olan çocuklarla ne yapıyorsun? You know? They don’t have, they’re sitting in a classroom and now it’s French. Ils n'en ont pas, ils sont assis dans une salle de classe et maintenant c'est le français. Sahip değiller, bir sınıfta oturuyorlar ve şimdi Fransız. Any ideas there? Des idées là-bas? Orada fikir var mı? How do you get a 14 year old boy or girl, it doesn’t matter, what can you do to make say French or any language? Comment faire pour qu'un garçon ou une fille de 14 ans, peu importe, qu'est-ce qu'on peut faire pour qu'il dise français ou n'importe quelle langue ? 14 yaşında bir erkek ya da kızı nasıl alırsın, önemli değil, Fransızca ya da herhangi bir dil yapmak için ne yapabilirsin? Would it matter if they were able to choose the language or is it just for someone living in North America, English speaking North America, basically other languages don’t matter? Cela aurait-il de l'importance s'ils pouvaient choisir la langue ou est-ce juste pour quelqu'un vivant en Amérique du Nord, en Amérique du Nord anglophone, fondamentalement, les autres langues n'ont pas d'importance ? Dilleri seçebildikleri ya da Kuzey Amerika'da yaşayan, sadece Kuzey Amerika'da yaşayan, temelde diğer dillerin önemi olmayan bir kişi için sorun olur mu? Do you think that’s part of it? Bunun bir parçası olduğunu mu düşünüyorsun?

Jill: Yeah, I don’t know. Probably part of it is that, that it’s just so easy to get by with only knowing English and I think that’s probably why most North Americans or Canadians and Americans only speak English is because yeah, you can go anywhere in the world and probably get by with your English which is, I think a bit sad because I think there is a lot, I think it’s very interesting to learn another language because you learn a lot about the culture and that was always my favorite part. Muhtemelen bir parçası, sadece İngilizce bilmenin çok kolay olduğunu ve bunun muhtemelen Kuzey Amerikalıların ya da Kanadalıların ve Amerikalıların sadece İngilizce konuşmasının sebebi olduğunu düşünüyorum, çünkü dünyanın herhangi bir yerine gidebilir ve belki de ingilizcenizle biraz üzgünüm çünkü bence çok şey var, bence başka bir dil öğrenmek çok ilginç çünkü kültür hakkında çok şey öğreniyorsunuz ve bu her zaman benim en sevdiğim bölümdü.

I hated the classes that focused on grammar. I just couldn’t stand going to them even in university. Ik kon er gewoon niet tegen om naar hen toe te gaan, zelfs niet op de universiteit. Üniversitedeyken bile onlara dayanamadım. You know, I never, I don’t think I improved from probably grade five to my fourth year of university in terms of my grammar in French. You know, even after having so many classes that were focused on grammar and university courses focused on grammar, I hated going to them. They were so boring, so dry and it didn’t help me. And, I think that the classes that I loved were the ones where we got into the cultural stuff and not, and other people are different. Some people, I guess, maybe like grammar and maybe aren’t so interested in festivals and cultural norms and things but for me, I’m very interested in that which makes the language more interesting to me.

Steve: But then, getting back to the level of a 14 year old, you know, in countries like Sweden or Holland where all television shows are in the original language they learn their English through television. But, there again, we get back to our original discussion and that is the sort of cultural imperialism of English speaking culture.

Everybody in the world has heard of some of these start of Hollywood or the pop stars and whoever they all are. I don’t even know their names myself but we don’t know who are the leading Arabic singers or Chinese singers or French even. We don’t know who they are so it doesn’t have the same attraction. I guess there’s not much we can do there.

Jill: Yeah and with young people, going back to young people I think so many kids and teenagers are too young to see the benefit of learning another language and it’s just something that’s work and I think some people do enjoy their French class or whatever class, whatever language they’re learning in school because some people are more inclined towards artsy type classes. But, I think there are some people that may never enjoy learning a new language. Not everybody wants to learn a language.

Steve: You know and this is where, what I would do in schools because a lot of people take music from the age of let’s say five to 12 and then they, after much, many tears and scenes they’re allowed to quit. That was my case.

But, when kids are very young they’ll do whatever you tell them to do. And, I think what they should do is they should have language in the early years and it should not be limited to one language like in Canada, it’s French because it’s national language. Et, je pense que ce qu'ils devraient faire, c'est qu'ils devraient avoir une langue dans les premières années et cela ne devrait pas se limiter à une langue comme au Canada, c'est le français parce que c'est la langue nationale. It should be, let them try out a variety of different languages, let them listen to stories and you can do it in a variety of ways. Il devrait être, laissez-les essayer une variété de langues différentes, laissez-les écouter des histoires et vous pouvez le faire de différentes manières. You can listen to a story in the language and read it in your own so you get used to the sounds. Vous pouvez écouter une histoire dans la langue et la lire dans la vôtre pour vous habituer aux sons. And, just expose kids to language through the first five, six, seven years of schooling and then if they want to continue, fine. Und setzen Sie die Kinder in den ersten fünf, sechs, sieben Schuljahren der Sprache aus, und wenn sie dann weitermachen möchten, ist das in Ordnung. Et, exposez simplement les enfants au langage pendant les cinq, six, sept premières années de scolarité, puis s'ils veulent continuer, très bien. If they don’t want to continue fine.

Once they’ve had that exposure to the language, if at age 20 they decide to learn a language they will be better language learners. And, I think all you need to do is to prepare their brains so that at that point when they become motivated to learn that they will learn more quickly. They’ll have an easier time pronouncing, their brain will be more flexible, that’s all.

But, what we do right now, at least in the Canadian school system, 95% of the kids who study French in the English language school system end up not being able to speak at all so it’s completely useless. They’re far better off to have this early exposure just as, you know, a boy might play the violin or a girl play the piano and then at age 12 he or she is allowed to quit and that’s the end of it. But, if they ever do decide to go back to it they have something there that they can really, you know, that’s going to help them.

Jill: Right.

Steve: Maybe one day we’ll set up LingQ Junior. It’s my next project once we get all our problems resolved here. Okay then. Thanks Jill.

Jill: Thank you.