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English LingQ Podcast 1.0, #303 - Steve and Alex - Confidence (Part 1)

#303 - Steve and Alex - Confidence (Part 1)

Steve: Hi Alex.

Alex: Hi there, Steve.

Steve: You know it's been a while since we did these.

Alex: Some while, yes; quite a while.

Steve: I feel badly.

First of all, you were away in Korea for two months or more. Alex: Three months, actually.

Steve: Three months, yeah.

Alex: Yeah.

Steve: I was traveling and one thing or another and we didn't do them.

I know there are people, surprisingly, who actually enjoy listening to us. Alex: Yeah.

Steve: That is surprising.

Alex: We had some requests on the forum and some people contact us personally and say hey, we'd love to hear another podcast.

Steve: Right.

Alex: So, here we are.

Steve: I never know what we should talk about, whether we should talk about the weather or politics, the economic situation, but one thing that struck me today that I wanted to talk about and get your opinions on is the issue of confidence in language learning.

I'm even going to do a YouTube video on it. It is certainly true that if something good happens to you, say your favorite team wins a game or you get complimented on something or I score a goal in my Old Timer's hockey, whatever, anything good happens you feel good. Alex: Absolutely.

Steve: You feel good and you're more motivated to do things.

You've got a livelier step and you're just up and at ‘em and you want to do things and language learning is so dependent on the attitude of the learner, perhaps more so than in other activities. I mean if you don't understand Math you can be motivated or whatever, you're not going to manage. It's difficult. But, to me, language learning is like learning to walk. It's very much natural and if you are motivated and confident you'll do better. So I'm thinking to myself, many of the things that they do in traditional language learning actually discourage the learner. Like if you get two out of 10 in a test you're not going to study as hard. That's not going to make you study harder. Sometimes on my YouTube videos I'll go look at the comments.

I have my Russian, for example, and I make mistakes in Russian. Generally, the Russians come on and compliment me and say oh, that's wonderful. I wish I could speak English as well as you speak Russian and so forth and I know that I make a lot of mistakes. But then you'll get the guy who's in his fourth year of Russian studies at some university in the States and he comes on saying you're butchering the cases and you sound pretty bad. Now, me, I'm not affected that much because seven out of 10 say that's good and three out of 10 point out my mistakes, but if all I got was people pointing out my mistakes, and I know that I have mistakes, that would discourage me and I'd be less interested. You know I was thinking again.

I had a conversation in Czech and, of course, I've been working on Korean and trying to maintain my Russian, but my Czech has slipped. I understood everything that he was saying -- we were talking about Czech politics -- but I had trouble finding my words. I knew that I was using the cases even worse than normal, but I'm not discouraged because I can then download my radio interviews, listen to them and I say wow! Isn't that great? I can understand. I can understand this Czech. I'm in this Czech thing. I'm part of that now. I can relate to things Czech like you relate to things Korean, so I'm happy. So what if I speak with mistakes, it doesn't matter. Anyway, to bring this all back to language instruction, because I always talk about the three pillars or whatever, your attitude, the time you spend and your ability to notice, but they are all affected by your attitude because if you're turned off you're not going to put in the time and you aren't going to pay attention, so the key one is the attitude.

So if in language instruction we are doing things that actually discourage the learner, maybe it needn't matter whether the learner gets the subjunctive right just because we taught the subjunctive this term. What does that matter in the long run? What matters in the long run is that the learner continues, enjoys the language and continues reading and listening and doing things with the language.

That's what really matters. So the whole emphasis is like, what can we do? Can we give them you know…what do you call these cola drinks that give you an extra kick? How do we get the person happy, confident, feeling good about what they have achieved, rather than about what they haven't achieved? Alex: Yeah.

Well, I have an interesting experience I guess on both ends of the spectrum because my interest in Korean blossomed out of relationships with Korean people, having friends, having interactions face to face. When you meet people face to face like that they're very positive and very supportive, even if you've just started and you only know a few words. They're very impressed and they applaud you and so from the very start with Korean. What I found was that I had a lot of confidence and I had a lot of motivation, a very positive attitude so that I could continue with Korean, even though I knew I made lots of mistakes, even though some people didn't understand me and so on and so forth. That's just part of the process, but I had kind of this very positive experience with relation to Korean. Now, fast forward a little bit when I went to university.

My first year in university, the first semester, actually, I took a Japanese class and I thought oh, Japanese will be interesting. I've heard that it's grammatically similar to Korean so maybe it's going to be easy for me, I don't know. So I take the class, but it was an intensive class so it's twice as much class time per week, which means you move through material a lot more quickly, but you also have to take a lot more tests, a lot more quizzes. There's a lot more examining that takes place. What I found was I started off very interested, intrigued by Japanese culture, the language and things like that, but I kind of underestimated the workload for the course and so my performance slowly started to slip.

I realized that and I made an effort to do better, but the course was moving so quickly that I found it hard to catch up, even though I was spending more time. But what I found was even though I was working hard on this, I was constantly getting less than satisfactory grades. For myself, I'd like to get an A, but in these cases I was getting a C, some of them I actually even failed these quizzes. So, to me, it was a very negative experience where I'm trying really hard and I'm trying to be motivated, but every other class when I have a test I'm getting a low grade that I know is drawing me closer and closer to a lower grade overall for the class and it just became very difficult.

I tried to go as hard as I could, but towards the end of the class I thought man, this isn't any fun at all. I enjoyed Korean because it was interaction, it was positive, but this is like so rigid, so strict. Even though I can, to some degree, communicate in basic Japanese with a friend, the class says that I'm bad. Steve: Right.

And, realistically, what they test you on is quite arbitrary. What they're saying is we taught you this. We covered this material; therefore, you should know it. One thing that I know from my own language learning is what I covered today is not necessarily what I remember or learn today. That may not click in for another six months or a year. So what are you testing there? My ability to regurgitate something that was given to me over a certain period of time. The only thing that really matters is that you stay active. So, getting back to my own experience now, I'm trying to maintain my Russian and Czech, both of which are very much less than perfect.

Although I understand the languages very well, I speak with lots of mistakes so I still want to spend some time on them and yet I want to devote myself to Korean because I want to get the Korean up to the same imperfect level as my Czech and my Russian. So, I end up being realistic. In other words, there's only so much that you can achieve. Rather than saying oh, gee, I spoke in Czech and I made a lot of mistakes and I feel badly about it I say look, realistically, what can you expect. If I were devoting myself full time to Czech, Russian or Korean I would do better, but then I would lose the other two. So that's what I've elected to do. I think it's important to give ourselves credit for our achievements, rather than have other people come along and tell us where our shortcomings are because we're often well aware of our shortcomings and every so often to say hey, look at me.

Look at what I can do. Six months ago I didn't understand anything in Korean, let's say, and I sense myself understanding Korean better and better. I struggle when I speak, but I am aware of making some progress so that should make me feel good. I should feel good about that. If we put that much time into a pursuit and we feel badly about the results that's obviously discouraging and this is getting back to the classroom. The teacher has to structure it in such a way, given that people learn at different speeds and in different ways, that everyone who is genuinely putting in an effort comes away with a sense of satisfaction that they have achieved something.

If some people have better pronunciation and if some people remember certain words better or faster than others it doesn't matter. You can't squeeze more out of that learner than is there. Assuming that there is a difference in ability, all you really want is that they put the time in and that they feel good about it and so that should be the only emphasis. Like I have 25 people in my classroom, how can I make them all like learning the language, feel good about learning the language? Maybe they shouldn't be learning the language. Maybe they should be learning some other language, so go find them whatever language they should be learning. In other words, the whole thing should be directed towards this issue of making people feel good, making people get a sense of achievement. Now, it can't be phony.

You know like Johnny can barely spell and they say oh, you're doing great. Here's an A, you know? I mean there's a lot of that watering down. So there is a bit of a contradiction there, you don't water to water it down. It's not like a language learner is going to be building bridges. If he can communicate that's fine; that's what most of them hope to do. I don't want a neurosurgeon operating on my brain in any case, but if they are they'd better be a good one. So, for those people, obviously the tests matter. You have to verify the quality of an engineer, of a neurosurgeon and stuff, but people who are learning languages, unless they're going to be interpreting at the U.N., it should all be about enabling them to enjoy it, such as your experience with the Korean. Alex: Yeah, definitely.

One of the interesting experiences that not only I, but pretty much every Canadian and American has shared is learning a foreign language through school and in high school. I can't even count how many people I've met who say oh, yeah, I know some French, but I just learned it in high school and I don't remember any. It's like well, it's a tragedy, you know? If people are really motivated to learn a language, why are we spending time learning languages during school if nobody is following through with it? Isn't the purpose to motivate people to continue to learn those languages to develop more economic opportunities for themselves and for their country? That's why we're -- Steve: Or just the cultural interests.

I mean you can fly off to France or Mexico or Korea and you can communicate with the locals. You can turn on the TV and understand what's there. It's tremendous. It's a tremendous asset. And you're quite right; we devise those programs, at least in North America. In Europe it's better because they are exposed to more languages. It makes more sense for them so I think there's a higher degree of motivation, but here… Why do you even teach a foreign language in school? None of them can speak a foreign language. Alex: Yeah.

Steve: I don't think it's five percent.

I don't think it's two percent of people, unless they're in an immersion program. It's a very small number. Why are we even doing it? We should be really looking at what we're doing there. Alex: Yeah.

Steve: But the whole thing about confidence is obviously important in any endeavor.

Like skiing, if you don't have confidence that you're going to ski down the hill I mean you may as well forget it.

#303 - Steve and Alex - Confidence (Part 1) #303 - Steve y Alex - Confianza (Parte 1) #303 - スティーブとアレックス - 自信(前編) #303 - Steve i Alex - Pewność siebie (część 1) #303 - Steve e Alex - Confiança (Parte 1) #303 - Стив и Алекс - Уверенность в себе (часть 1) #303 - Steve och Alex - Förtroende (del 1) #303 - Steve ve Alex - Güven (Bölüm 1)

Steve: Hi Alex.

Alex: Hi there, Steve.

Steve: You know it’s been a while since we did these. Steve: Víš, už to byla nějaká doba, co jsme to udělali. Steve: Você sabe que já faz um tempo desde que fizemos isso.

Alex: Some while, yes; quite a while. Alex: Nějakou dobu ano; docela dlouho. Alex: Algum tempo, sim; um bom tempo.

Steve: I feel badly. Steve: Cítím se špatně.

First of all, you were away in Korea for two months or more. Za prvé, byl jsi pryč v Koreji dva měsíce nebo déle. Alex: Three months, actually. Alex: Vlastně tři měsíce. Alex: Três meses, na verdade.

Steve: Three months, yeah. Steve: Tři měsíce, jo.

Alex: Yeah.

Steve: I was traveling and one thing or another and we didn’t do them. Steve: Cestoval jsem a jedna nebo druhá věc a my jsme je nedělali. Steve: Eu estava viajando e uma coisa ou outra e não fizemos nada.

I know there are people, surprisingly, who actually enjoy listening to us. Vím, že překvapivě existují lidé, kteří nás rádi poslouchají. Alex: Yeah.

Steve: That is surprising. Steve: Isso é surpreendente.

Alex: We had some requests on the forum and some people contact us personally and say hey, we’d love to hear another podcast. Alex: Recebemos alguns pedidos no fórum e algumas pessoas nos contataram pessoalmente e disseram ei, adoraríamos ouvir outro podcast. Alex:我们在论坛上收到了一些请求,有些人亲自联系我们并说嘿,我们很想听听另一个播客。

Steve: Right.

Alex: So, here we are.

Steve: I never know what we should talk about, whether we should talk about the weather or politics, the economic situation, but one thing that struck me today that I wanted to talk about and get your opinions on is the issue of confidence in language learning. Steve: Nikdy nevím, o čem bychom měli mluvit, jestli bychom měli mluvit o počasí nebo politice, ekonomické situaci, ale jedna věc, která mě dnes napadla, o čem bych chtěl mluvit a získat vaše názory, je otázka důvěry v jazyk. učení se. 史蒂夫:我从不知道我们应该谈论什么,我们应该谈论天气还是政治,经济形势,但今天让我印象深刻的一件事是我想谈谈并听取你的意见,那就是对语言的信心问题学习。

I’m even going to do a YouTube video on it. Dokonce o tom natočím video na YouTube. 我什至会在上面做一个 YouTube 视频。 It is certainly true that if something good happens to you, say your favorite team wins a game or you get complimented on something or I score a goal in my Old Timer’s hockey, whatever, anything good happens you feel good. Určitě je pravda, že když se vám stane něco dobrého, řekněme, že váš oblíbený tým vyhraje zápas nebo dostanete kompliment nebo já dám gól ve svém Old Timer hokeji, cokoliv, stane se cokoliv dobrého, cítíte se dobře. Es cierto que si te pasa algo bueno, digamos que tu equipo favorito gana un partido o te felicitan por algo o marco un gol en mi Old Timer de hockey, lo que sea, cualquier cosa buena que pase te hace sentir bien. 确实,如果有好事发生在你身上,比如你最喜欢的球队赢了一场比赛,或者你得到了一些称赞,或者我在我的 Old Timer 的曲棍球比赛中进了一个球,无论如何,任何好事发生,你都会感觉很好。 Alex: Absolutely.

Steve: You feel good and you’re more motivated to do things.

You’ve got a livelier step and you’re just up and at ‘em and you want to do things and language learning is so dependent on the attitude of the learner, perhaps more so than in other activities. Máte živější krok a jste jen nahoře a u nich a chcete dělat věci a studium jazyků tak závisí na postoji studenta, možná více než v jiných činnostech. 你有一个更活泼的步骤,你刚刚起床,你想做事,语言学习非常依赖于学习者的态度,也许比其他活动更依赖于学习者的态度。 I mean if you don’t understand Math you can be motivated or whatever, you’re not going to manage. Myslím tím, že pokud nerozumíte matematice, můžete být motivováni nebo cokoli jiného, nezvládnete to. 我的意思是,如果你不懂数学,你可能会受到激励或其他什么,你将无法管理。 It’s difficult. But, to me, language learning is like learning to walk. Ale pro mě je učení se jazykům jako učit se chodit. 但是,对我来说,语言学习就像学习走路一样。 It’s very much natural and if you are motivated and confident you’ll do better. Je to velmi přirozené a pokud budete motivovaní a sebejistí, půjde vám to lépe. So I’m thinking to myself, many of the things that they do in traditional language learning actually discourage the learner. Takže si říkám, že mnohé z věcí, které dělají v tradičním učení jazyků, ve skutečnosti studenta odrazuje. 所以我在想,他们在传统语言学习中所做的许多事情实际上让学习者感到沮丧。 Like if you get two out of 10 in a test you’re not going to study as hard. Jako když dostanete dva z 10 v testu, nebudete se tak tvrdě učit. That’s not going to make you study harder. To tě nepřinutí studovat tvrději. Sometimes on my YouTube videos I’ll go look at the comments. Někdy se u mých videí na YouTube půjdu podívat na komentáře. 有时在我的 YouTube 视频上,我会去看评论。

I have my Russian, for example, and I make mistakes in Russian. Já mám třeba svoji ruštinu a v ruštině dělám chyby. 例如,我有我的俄语,我在俄语中犯了错误。 Generally, the Russians come on and compliment me and say oh, that’s wonderful. Obecně mi Rusové přijdou a pochválí mě a říkají oh, to je úžasné. 一般来说,俄罗斯人会来夸我,说哦,那太棒了。 I wish I could speak English as well as you speak Russian and so forth and I know that I make a lot of mistakes. Přál bych si, abych uměl anglicky stejně jako ty rusky a tak dále a vím, že dělám spoustu chyb. 我希望我能像你说俄语一样说英语等等,我知道我犯了很多错误。 But then you’ll get the guy who’s in his fourth year of Russian studies at some university in the States and he comes on saying you’re butchering the cases and you sound pretty bad. Ale pak dostanete toho chlapa, který je ve čtvrtém ročníku ruských studií na nějaké univerzitě ve Státech, a on vám řekne, že bouráte případy a zníte dost špatně. 但随后你会遇到一个在美国某所大学读俄罗斯研究四年级的人,他会说你在屠杀案件,你听起来很糟糕。 Now, me, I’m not affected that much because seven out of 10 say that’s good and three out of 10 point out my mistakes, but if all I got was people pointing out my mistakes, and I know that I have mistakes, that would discourage me and I’d be less interested. Teď mě to tolik neovlivňuje, protože sedm z 10 říká, že je to dobré a tři z 10 upozorňují na moje chyby, ale kdybych vše, co jsem dostal, bylo, že by lidé poukazovali na moje chyby, a já vím, že mám chyby, že by mě odradilo a méně by mě to zajímalo. Ora, io non sono molto influenzato perché sette su dieci dicono che è buono e tre su dieci sottolineano i miei errori, ma se tutto ciò che ricevo è gente che sottolinea i miei errori, e so che ho degli errori, questo mi scoraggerebbe e sarei meno interessato. Agora, eu não sou muito afetado porque sete em cada 10 dizem que isso é bom e três entre 10 apontam meus erros, mas se tudo que eu conseguisse fossem pessoas apontando meus erros, e eu sei que tenho erros, que me desencorajaria e eu estaria menos interessado. 现在,我,我没有受到太大影响,因为十分之七的人说那很好,十分之三的人指出我的错误,但如果我得到的只是人们指出我的错误,而且我知道我有错误,那会让我气馁,我也不会那么感兴趣。 You know I was thinking again. Víš, že jsem znovu přemýšlel.

I had a conversation in Czech and, of course, I’ve been working on Korean and trying to maintain my Russian, but my Czech has slipped. Měl jsem konverzaci v češtině a samozřejmě jsem pracoval na korejštině a snažil se udržet si ruštinu, ale čeština mi utekla. 我用捷克语进行了交谈,当然,我一直在研究韩语并试图保持我的俄语,但我的捷克语已经滑倒了。 I understood everything that he was saying -- we were talking about Czech politics -- but I had trouble finding my words. Rozuměl jsem všemu, co říkal -- bavili jsme se o české politice -- ale těžko jsem hledal slova. Eu entendi tudo o que ele estava dizendo - estávamos falando sobre política tcheca - mas eu tive dificuldade em encontrar minhas palavras. 我理解他所说的一切——我们在谈论捷克政治——但我很难找到我的话。 I knew that I was using the cases even worse than normal, but I’m not discouraged because I can then download my radio interviews, listen to them and I say wow! Věděl jsem, že pouzdra používám ještě hůř než normálně, ale neodradilo mě to, protože si pak mohu stáhnout své rozhovory v rádiu, poslechnout si je a říkám wow! Eu sabia que estava usando os casos ainda piores do que o normal, mas não desanimo porque posso então baixar minhas entrevistas de rádio, ouvi-las e digo uau! 我知道我使用的情况比平时更糟,但我并不气馁,因为我可以下载我的电台采访,听他们说,哇! Isn’t that great? I can understand. I can understand this Czech. Této češtině rozumím. I’m in this Czech thing. I’m part of that now. I can relate to things Czech like you relate to things Korean, so I’m happy. Dokážu se vžít do českých věcí jako ty do korejských věcí, takže jsem rád. So what if I speak with mistakes, it doesn’t matter. Anyway, to bring this all back to language instruction, because I always talk about the three pillars or whatever, your attitude, the time you spend and your ability to notice, but they are all affected by your attitude because if you’re turned off you’re not going to put in the time and you aren’t going to pay attention, so the key one is the attitude. Každopádně, abych to všechno vrátil k výuce jazyků, protože vždy mluvím o třech pilířích nebo o čemkoli jiném, vašem postoji, čase, který strávíte, a vaší schopnosti všímat si, ale to vše je ovlivněno vaším postojem, protože pokud jste vypnuti nebudete věnovat čas a nebudete věnovat pozornost, takže klíčový je postoj. 无论如何,把这一切都带回语言教学,因为我总是谈论三大支柱或其他什么,你的态度,你花费的时间和你的注意能力,但它们都会受到你的态度的影响,因为如果你被关闭你不会投入时间,也不会注意,所以关键是态度。

So if in language instruction we are doing things that actually discourage the learner, maybe it needn’t matter whether the learner gets the subjunctive right just because we taught the subjunctive this term. Pokud tedy v jazykové výuce děláme věci, které žáka skutečně odrazují, možná nemusí záležet na tom, zda žák pochopil konjunktiv správně jen proto, že jsme konjunktiv tento termín naučili. Так что, если в обучении языку мы делаем вещи, которые на самом деле обескураживают учащегося, может быть, не имеет значения, правильно ли учащийся понимает сослагательное наклонение только потому, что мы учили сослагательному наклонению в этом термине. 因此,如果在语言教学中我们所做的事情实际上让学习者感到沮丧,那么学习者是否正确掌握虚拟语气可能并不重要,因为我们在这个术语中教了虚拟语气。 What does that matter in the long run? Co na tom z dlouhodobého hlediska záleží? 从长远来看,这有什么关系? What matters in the long run is that the learner continues, enjoys the language and continues reading and listening and doing things with the language. Z dlouhodobého hlediska je důležité, aby student pokračoval, jazyk ho bavil a pokračoval ve čtení a poslouchání a dělal věci s jazykem. 从长远来看,重要的是学习者继续,享受语言,继续阅读、倾听和用语言做事。

That’s what really matters. So the whole emphasis is like, what can we do? Takže celý důraz je takový, co můžeme dělat? Can we give them you know…what do you call these cola drinks that give you an extra kick? Můžeme jim dát ty víš...jak říkáš těmto kolovým nápojům, které tě nakopnou? 我们能给他们你知道吗……你怎么称呼这些给你额外刺激的可乐饮料? How do we get the person happy, confident, feeling good about what they have achieved, rather than about what they haven’t achieved? Jak docílit toho, aby byl člověk šťastný, sebevědomý a měl dobrý pocit z toho, čeho dosáhl, spíše než z toho, čeho nedosáhl? 我们如何让这个人快乐、自信、对他们取得的成就感觉良好,而不是对他们没有取得的成就感到满意? Alex: Yeah.

Well, I have an interesting experience I guess on both ends of the spectrum because my interest in Korean blossomed out of relationships with Korean people, having friends, having interactions face to face. No, mám zajímavou zkušenost, myslím, na obou koncích spektra, protože můj zájem o korejštinu vyrostl ze vztahů s korejskými lidmi, s přáteli, s interakcemi tváří v tvář. 嗯,我想我在这两个方面都有一个有趣的经历,因为我对韩语的兴趣源于与韩国人的关系、结交朋友、面对面的互动。 When you meet people face to face like that they’re very positive and very supportive, even if you’ve just started and you only know a few words. Když se takto setkáte s lidmi tváří v tvář, jsou velmi pozitivní a velmi vás podporují, i když jste právě začali a znáte jen pár slov. 当你像这样面对面地见到人时,他们会非常积极和非常支持,即使你刚刚开始,你只会几个字。 They’re very impressed and they applaud you and so from the very start with Korean. Jsou velmi ohromeni a tleskají vám, a tak od samého začátku s korejštinou. 他们印象深刻,他们为你鼓掌,所以从一开始就用韩语。 What I found was that I had a lot of confidence and I had a lot of motivation, a very positive attitude so that I could continue with Korean, even though I knew I made lots of mistakes, even though some people didn’t understand me and so on and so forth. Zjistil jsem, že jsem si hodně věřil a měl jsem hodně motivace, velmi pozitivní přístup, abych mohl pokračovat v korejštině, i když jsem věděl, že jsem udělal spoustu chyb, i když mi někteří lidé nerozuměli. a tak dále a tak dále. Lo que encontré fue que tenía mucha confianza y tenía mucha motivación, una actitud muy positiva para poder continuar con el coreano, aunque sabía que cometí muchos errores, aunque algunas personas no me entendían. y así sucesivamente y así sucesivamente. 我发现我有很大的信心,有很大的动力,非常积极的态度,所以我可以继续学习韩语,即使我知道我犯了很多错误,即使有些人不理解我等等等等。 That’s just part of the process, but I had kind of this very positive experience with relation to Korean. To je jen část procesu, ale měl jsem velmi pozitivní zkušenost se vztahem ke korejštině. 这只是过程的一部分,但我对韩国人有过这种非常积极的体验。 Now, fast forward a little bit when I went to university. Teď trochu rychle dopředu, když jsem šel na univerzitu. Ahora, adelante un poco cuando fui a la universidad. 现在,当我上大学时,快进一点。

My first year in university, the first semester, actually, I took a Japanese class and I thought oh, Japanese will be interesting. Můj první rok na univerzitě, vlastně první semestr, jsem chodil na kurz japonštiny a říkal jsem si, oh, japonština bude zajímavá. 我在大学的第一年,第一学期,实际上,我上了日语课,我想哦,日语会很有趣。 I’ve heard that it’s grammatically similar to Korean so maybe it’s going to be easy for me, I don’t know. 我听说它在语法上与韩语相似,所以也许对我来说很容易,我不知道。 So I take the class, but it was an intensive class so it’s twice as much class time per week, which means you move through material a lot more quickly, but you also have to take a lot more tests, a lot more quizzes. Hodinu tedy navštěvuji, ale byla to intenzivní hodina, takže je to dvakrát více vyučovacího času týdně, což znamená, že projdete materiálem mnohem rychleji, ale také musíte udělat mnohem více testů, mnohem více kvízů. 所以我参加了这门课,但这是一个密集的课程,所以每周上课时间是两倍,这意味着你可以更快地完成材料,但你也必须参加更多的测试,更多的测验。 There’s a lot more examining that takes place. Probíhá mnohem více zkoumání. What I found was I started off very interested, intrigued by Japanese culture, the language and things like that, but I kind of underestimated the workload for the course and so my performance slowly started to slip. Zjistil jsem, že mě začala velmi zajímat japonská kultura, jazyk a podobné věci, ale trochu jsem podcenil pracovní vytížení kurzu, a tak můj výkon začal pomalu klesat. Lo que descubrí fue que comencé muy interesado, intrigado por la cultura japonesa, el idioma y cosas por el estilo, pero subestimé la carga de trabajo del curso y, por lo tanto, mi desempeño comenzó a decaer lentamente. 我发现我一开始非常感兴趣,对日本文化、语言之类的东西很感兴趣,但我有点低估了课程的工作量,所以我的表现慢慢开始下滑。

I realized that and I made an effort to do better, but the course was moving so quickly that I found it hard to catch up, even though I was spending more time. Uvědomil jsem si to a snažil jsem se to udělat lépe, ale kurz se pohyboval tak rychle, že jsem to těžko doháněl, i když jsem trávil více času. 我意识到了这一点,并努力做得更好,但课程进展得如此之快,以至于我发现很难赶上,即使我花了更多的时间。 But what I found was even though I was working hard on this, I was constantly getting less than satisfactory grades. Ale zjistil jsem, že i když jsem na tom tvrdě pracoval, neustále jsem dostával méně než uspokojivé známky. 但我发现,即使我在这方面努力工作,我的成绩也总是不尽如人意。 For myself, I’d like to get an A, but in these cases I was getting a C, some of them I actually even failed these quizzes. Za sebe bych rád dostal A, ale v těchto případech jsem dostal C, v některých z nich jsem dokonce v těchto kvízech neuspěl. 就我自己而言,我想获得 A,但在这些情况下,我获得了 C,其中一些我什至在这些测验中都失败了。 So, to me, it was a very negative experience where I’m trying really hard and I’m trying to be motivated, but every other class when I have a test I’m getting a low grade that I know is drawing me closer and closer to a lower grade overall for the class and it just became very difficult. Takže pro mě to byla velmi negativní zkušenost, kdy se opravdu hodně snažím a snažím se být motivovaný, ale každou další hodinu, když mám test, dostávám nízkou známku, o které vím, že mě to přitahuje blíž. a blíže k nižší třídě celkově pro třídu a bylo to velmi obtížné. Entonces, para mí, fue una experiencia muy negativa en la que me esfuerzo mucho y trato de estar motivado, pero cada dos clases, cuando tengo un examen, obtengo una calificación baja que sé que me acerca. y más cerca de una calificación general más baja para la clase y se volvió muy difícil. 所以,对我来说,这是一次非常消极的经历,我真的很努力,我试图有动力,但是当我有考试的时候,我得到了一个低分,我知道这让我更接近并且更接近班级的整体成绩,这变得非常困难。

I tried to go as hard as I could, but towards the end of the class I thought man, this isn’t any fun at all. Snažil jsem se jít co nejtvrději, ale ke konci hodiny jsem si říkal, člověče, tohle není vůbec žádná legrace. 我尽我所能去努力,但在课程快结束时,我想,伙计,这一点也不好玩。 I enjoyed Korean because it was interaction, it was positive, but this is like so rigid, so strict. 我喜欢韩语,因为它是互动的,它是积极的,但这就像那么死板,那么严格。 Even though I can, to some degree, communicate in basic Japanese with a friend, the class says that I’m bad. I když do jisté míry umím komunikovat v základech japonštiny s kamarádem, třída říká, že jsem špatný. 尽管我在某种程度上可以和朋友用基本的日语交流,但班上说我很糟糕。 Steve: Right.

And, realistically, what they test you on is quite arbitrary. A realisticky, to, na čem vás testují, je zcela libovolné. 而且,实际上,他们测试你的东西是相当随意的。 What they’re saying is we taught you this. Říkají, že jsme vás to naučili. We covered this material; therefore, you should know it. Pokryli jsme tento materiál; proto byste to měli vědět. 我们涵盖了这些材料;因此,你应该知道。 One thing that I know from my own language learning is what I covered today is not necessarily what I remember or learn today. Jedna věc, kterou vím ze svého vlastního studia jazyků, je to, že to, co jsem dnes probral, nemusí být nutně to, co si dnes pamatuji nebo co se učím. 我从自己的语言学习中了解到的一件事是,我今天所涵盖的不一定是我今天记得或学到的。 That may not click in for another six months or a year. To nemusí kliknout na dalších šest měsíců nebo rok. 这可能不会再过六个月或一年。 So what are you testing there? Tak co tam testuješ? 那你在那里测试什么? My ability to regurgitate something that was given to me over a certain period of time. Moje schopnost regurgitovat něco, co mi bylo dáno po určitou dobu. 我有能力反刍在一段时间内给予我的东西。 The only thing that really matters is that you stay active. Jediné, na čem opravdu záleží, je, abyste zůstali aktivní. 唯一真正重要的是你保持活跃。 So, getting back to my own experience now, I’m trying to maintain my Russian and Czech, both of which are very much less than perfect. Takže, když se teď vrátím ke svým vlastním zkušenostem, snažím se udržet si ruštinu a češtinu, které jsou o mnoho méně dokonalé. 所以,现在回到我自己的经历,我正在努力保持我的俄语和捷克语,这两者都远不完美。

Although I understand the languages very well, I speak with lots of mistakes so I still want to spend some time on them and yet I want to devote myself to Korean because I want to get the Korean up to the same imperfect level as my Czech and my Russian. I když jazykům rozumím velmi dobře, mluvím se spoustou chyb, takže jim chci ještě věnovat nějaký čas a přesto se chci věnovat korejštině, protože korejštinu chci dostat na stejně nedokonalou úroveň jako moji češtinu a moje ruština. 虽然我的语言理解得很好,但我说话有很多错误,所以我仍然想花一些时间在它们上,但我想把自己投入到韩语中,因为我想让韩语达到和我的捷克语一样不完美的水平,我的俄语。 So, I end up being realistic. Takže jsem nakonec realista. 所以,我最终变得现实。 In other words, there’s only so much that you can achieve. Jinými slovy, je toho jen tolik, čeho můžete dosáhnout. En otras palabras, hay tanto que puedes lograr. 换句话说,你能做到的只有这么多。 Rather than saying oh, gee, I spoke in Czech and I made a lot of mistakes and I feel badly about it I say look, realistically, what can you expect. Spíše než říkat ach jo, mluvil jsem česky a udělal jsem spoustu chyb a je mi z toho špatně, říkám hele, realisticky, co můžete čekat. 我没有说哦,哎呀,我说的是捷克语,我犯了很多错误,我对此感到很难过,我说看,现实地,你能期待什么。 If I were devoting myself full time to Czech, Russian or Korean I would do better, but then I would lose the other two. Kdybych se na plný úvazek věnoval češtině, ruštině nebo korejštině, udělal bych to lépe, ale pak bych přišel o ty další dva. So that’s what I’ve elected to do. Takže to jsem se rozhodl udělat. 所以这就是我选择做的事情。 I think it’s important to give ourselves credit for our achievements, rather than have other people come along and tell us where our shortcomings are because we’re often well aware of our shortcomings and every so often to say hey, look at me. 我认为重要的是要对我们的成就表示赞赏,而不是让其他人过来告诉我们我们的缺点在哪里,因为我们经常很清楚自己的缺点,并且经常说嘿,看看我。

Look at what I can do. Podívejte se, co mohu udělat. 看看我能做什么。 Six months ago I didn’t understand anything in Korean, let’s say, and I sense myself understanding Korean better and better. Před šesti měsíci jsem v korejštině nerozuměl, řekněme, a cítím, že korejštině rozumím stále lépe. 六个月前我什么都不懂韩语,比方说,我感觉自己对韩语的理解越来越好。 I struggle when I speak, but I am aware of making some progress so that should make me feel good. Když mluvím, trápím se, ale jsem si vědom, že jsem udělal určitý pokrok, takže bych se měl cítit dobře. Lucho cuando hablo, pero soy consciente de que estoy haciendo algunos progresos, por lo que eso debería hacerme sentir bien. I should feel good about that. Měl bych z toho mít dobrý pocit. If we put that much time into a pursuit and we feel badly about the results that’s obviously discouraging and this is getting back to the classroom. Pokud věnujeme tolik času snaze a cítíme se špatně kvůli výsledkům, je to samozřejmě odrazující a vrací se to do třídy. 如果我们把那么多时间投入到追求中,而我们对显然令人沮丧的结果感到难过,那就是回到课堂上。 The teacher has to structure it in such a way, given that people learn at different speeds and in different ways, that everyone who is genuinely putting in an effort comes away with a sense of satisfaction that they have achieved something. Učitel to musí strukturovat tak, že lidé se učí různou rychlostí a různými způsoby, aby každý, kdo se skutečně snaží, odcházel s pocitem uspokojení, že něčeho dosáhl. 鉴于人们以不同的速度和不同的方式学习,老师必须以这样的方式来组织它,每个真正付出努力的人都会对自己取得的成就感到满足。

If some people have better pronunciation and if some people remember certain words better or faster than others it doesn’t matter. Jestli mají někteří lidé lepší výslovnost a jestli si někteří pamatují určitá slova lépe nebo rychleji než ostatní, na tom nezáleží. 如果有些人的发音更好,如果有些人比其他人更好或更快地记住某些单词,那没关系。 You can’t squeeze more out of that learner than is there. Nemůžete z toho žáka vymáčknout víc, než tam je. 你不能从那个学习者身上榨取比那里更多的东西。 Assuming that there is a difference in ability, all you really want is that they put the time in and that they feel good about it and so that should be the only emphasis. 假设能力存在差异,你真正想要的只是他们投入时间并且感觉良好,所以这应该是唯一的重点。 Like I have 25 people in my classroom, how can I make them all like learning the language, feel good about learning the language? Jako když mám ve třídě 25 lidí, jak to udělat, aby se všichni rádi učili jazyk a cítili se dobře? Maybe they shouldn’t be learning the language. Možná by se neměli učit jazyk. Maybe they should be learning some other language, so go find them whatever language they should be learning. Možná by se měli učit nějaký jiný jazyk, tak jim najděte jakýkoli jazyk, který by se měli učit. 也许他们应该学习其他语言,所以去找他们应该学习的任何语言。 In other words, the whole thing should be directed towards this issue of making people feel good, making people get a sense of achievement. Jinými slovy, celá věc by měla směřovat k tomu, aby se lidé cítili dobře, aby lidé získali pocit úspěchu. 也就是说,整个事情都应该针对这个让人感觉良好、让人有成就感的问题。 Now, it can’t be phony. Teď to nemůže být falešné. Maintenant, ça ne peut pas être faux.

You know like Johnny can barely spell and they say oh, you’re doing great. Víš, že Johnny sotva umí hláskovat a oni říkají oh, jde ti to skvěle. Sabes que Johnny apenas puede deletrear y dicen oh, lo estás haciendo muy bien. 你知道约翰尼几乎不会拼写,他们说哦,你做得很好。 Here’s an A, you know? I mean there’s a lot of that watering down. Chci říct, že toho zalévání je hodně. Quiero decir que hay mucho de eso diluyéndose. Я имею в виду, что многое разбавлено. 我的意思是有很多这样的浇水。 So there is a bit of a contradiction there, you don’t water to water it down. Je v tom tedy trochu rozpor, nezaléváte, abyste zalili. 所以这里有点矛盾,你不浇水来淡化它。 It’s not like a language learner is going to be building bridges. 这不像一个语言学习者会搭建桥梁。 If he can communicate that’s fine; that’s what most of them hope to do. I don’t want a neurosurgeon operating on my brain in any case, but if they are they’d better be a good one. V žádném případě nechci, aby mi neurochirurg operoval mozek, ale pokud ano, měl by být dobrý. 在任何情况下,我都不希望神经外科医生对我的大脑进行手术,但如果有的话,他们最好是个好人。 So, for those people, obviously the tests matter. Takže pro tyto lidi jsou testy evidentně důležité. You have to verify the quality of an engineer, of a neurosurgeon and stuff, but people who are learning languages, unless they’re going to be interpreting at the U.N., it should all be about enabling them to enjoy it, such as your experience with the Korean. Musíte si ověřit kvalitu inženýra, neurochirurga a podobně, ale lidem, kteří se učí jazyky, pokud nebudou tlumočit v OSN, by mělo jít o to, aby si to užili, jako jsou vaše zkušenosti s Korejcem. 你必须验证工程师、神经外科医生和其他人的素质,但是学习语言的人,除非他们要在联合国进行口译,否则一切都应该是为了让他们能够享受它,比如你的经历与韩国人。 Alex: Yeah, definitely.

One of the interesting experiences that not only I, but pretty much every Canadian and American has shared is learning a foreign language through school and in high school. Jednou ze zajímavých zkušeností, kterou nejen já, ale téměř každý Kanaďan a Američan sdílíme, je učení se cizímu jazyku ve škole a na střední škole. 不仅我,而且几乎每个加拿大人和美国人都分享的有趣经历之一是通过学校和高中学习一门外语。 I can’t even count how many people I’ve met who say oh, yeah, I know some French, but I just learned it in high school and I don’t remember any. 我什至无法计算我遇到过多少人说哦,是的,我知道一些法语,但我只是在高中学会了它,我不记得了。 It’s like well, it’s a tragedy, you know? 这就像好吧,这是一个悲剧,你知道吗? If people are really motivated to learn a language, why are we spending time learning languages during school if nobody is following through with it? Pokud jsou lidé skutečně motivováni učit se jazyk, proč trávíme čas učením se jazyků během školy, když to nikdo nesleduje? 如果人们真的有学习语言的动力,如果没有人坚持学习,为什么我们还要在学校花时间学习语言? Isn’t the purpose to motivate people to continue to learn those languages to develop more economic opportunities for themselves and for their country? Není účelem motivovat lidi, aby se tyto jazyky i nadále učili, aby si vytvořili více ekonomických příležitostí pro sebe a pro svou zemi? 目的不就是激励人们继续学习这些语言,为自己和国家创造更多的经济机会吗? That’s why we’re -- Steve: Or just the cultural interests. Steve: Nebo jen kulturní zájmy. 史蒂夫:或者只是文化兴趣。

I mean you can fly off to France or Mexico or Korea and you can communicate with the locals. Myslím, že můžete odletět do Francie, Mexika nebo Koreje a můžete komunikovat s místními. Quiero decir que puedes volar a Francia, México o Corea y puedes comunicarte con los lugareños. 我的意思是你可以飞到法国、墨西哥或韩国,你可以和当地人交流。 You can turn on the TV and understand what’s there. Můžete zapnout televizi a pochopit, co tam je. It’s tremendous. It’s a tremendous asset. Je to obrovský přínos. And you’re quite right; we devise those programs, at least in North America. A máte docela pravdu; ty programy vymýšlíme, alespoň v Severní Americe. Y tienes toda la razón; nosotros ideamos esos programas, al menos en América del Norte. In Europe it’s better because they are exposed to more languages. V Evropě je to lepší, protože jsou vystaveni více jazykům. It makes more sense for them so I think there’s a higher degree of motivation, but here… Why do you even teach a foreign language in school? Dává to pro ně větší smysl, takže si myslím, že je to vyšší míra motivace, ale tady… Proč vůbec učíte cizí jazyk ve škole? 这对他们来说更有意义,所以我认为有更高程度的动力,但在这里……你为什么还要在学校教外语? None of them can speak a foreign language. Nikdo z nich neumí cizí jazyk. 他们都不会说一门外语。 Alex: Yeah.

Steve: I don’t think it’s five percent. Steve: Nemyslím si, že je to pět procent.

I don’t think it’s two percent of people, unless they’re in an immersion program. Nemyslím si, že jsou to dvě procenta lidí, pokud zrovna nejsou v nějakém imerzním programu. It’s a very small number. Je to velmi malé číslo. Why are we even doing it? Proč to vůbec děláme? We should be really looking at what we’re doing there. Měli bychom se pořádně podívat na to, co tam děláme. Alex: Yeah.

Steve: But the whole thing about confidence is obviously important in any endeavor. Steve: Ale celá věc o důvěře je samozřejmě důležitá v každém úsilí.

Like skiing, if you don’t have confidence that you’re going to ski down the hill I mean you may as well forget it. Stejně jako na lyžích, pokud nemáte jistotu, že sjedete z kopce, myslím, že na to můžete zapomenout. Como esquiar, si no tienes la confianza de que vas a esquiar colina abajo, es mejor que lo olvides. 就像滑雪一样,如果你没有信心从山上滑雪下来,我的意思是你不妨忘记它。