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English LingQ Podcast 1.0, #241 Mark & Steve – Swine Flu

#241 Mark & Steve – Swine Flu

Mark: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another EnglishLingQ Podcast.

Mark here with Steve.

Steve: Hello there. We're going to hear a little bit of background car noise. That makes is authentic here.

Mark: We're enjoying the nice spring weather we're having today. Steve: We even have a visitor here in the room with us, Gordie the dog.

Mark: He may join in at some point.

Steve: We hope not.

Mark: But he's kind of shy. Steve: That's right. Do you know what I want to talk about?

Mark: What's that? Steve: Mark, I think that anybody who's not interested in what I'm interested in is a fool. Does that make sense?

Mark: Certainly.

Steve: Anyone who doesn't share my interest is stupid. Mark: For sure.

I mean it goes without saying.

Steve: The reason I realize that is because a person who is much listened to in Canada, at least by some people, who gets invited to speak at universities, a certain Sacha Trudeau, son of our former…I won't use any kind of epithet…Prime Minister, Pierre Trudeau, this Sacha Trudeau, addressed students at the University of Western Ontario and had two things to say. One, he said, “People who only know one language can be very myopic, just look at the United States.” That was his statement.

He speaks two languages, French and English and he's so impressed with himself. He's convinced that anyone who doesn't speak two languages…he can be a brain surgeon, he can be an engineer, he can be a ballerina or she, it doesn't matter…these people are all myopic because they only speak one language. Sacha Trudeau speaks two languages and therefore he is farseeing.

Mark: Well he has two purposes with that statement: (A) He draws attention to the fact that he is extremely clever because he does speak two languages and (B) he gets a cheap shot in at the States, which is part of the culture there.

Steve: With Barack Obama trying to buy out the American industry and hand out money and basically turn the United States into the American Socialist Republic, is that still fair game?

Mark: I think so, I'm pretty sure. It's pretty hard to eradicate that mentality, the U.S. bashing mentality of the Liberal Party here. That's a pretty strong core belief there. Steve: But it is rather extraordinary, you know. I mean I speak 11 languages, I love languages. I think languages are great, but there are all kinds of people who speak many languages who are (A) stupid. Maybe I'm included in that category in some people's opinion. It doesn't matter; some people like to play the violin. Mark: Exactly.

Steve: Some people like to do other things, how can you categorize?

Mark: Lots of people do things that you have no interest in doing and are very good at them.

Steve: Well, sure.

Mark: If they think anyone who doesn't know how to fix cars is an idiot that... Steve: I had a great friend, an older man who was a friend of the family, and he used to build these model sailboats and put them inside a bottle. I mean I could never do that.

Mark: Right.

Steve: That's a tremendous skill. It's not very useful… Mark: No.

Steve: …but it's a skill. I mean there are all kinds of useful skills, too, and just to say… And then the second thing is to categorize, you know, look at America like everybody in the United States is myopic and everyone in Canada or in, I don't know, Russia, China, Afghanistan, they're not? Mark: Right.

I don't know. Steve: How can you be so retarded? And this guy gets invited to talk…

Mark: It's amazing. Steve: …and all the so self-righteous, intellectual people all giggle when he says stuff like that.

Mark: Right.

Steve: What an idiot. What an absolute idiot. He is living proof that you can speak more than one language and be an idiot.

Mark: Yes, he is.

Steve: Anyway, that was the one thing. He also said, in the same presentation, that Canada being bilingual is worth more to us than the tarsands.

Mark: Or as much to us.

Steve: Or as much to us as the tarsands. No, but in terms of value, money-wise. Well, no, because being bilingual costs us money. It costs us a lot of money because it's a political slush fund. Mark: Right.

Steve: So that anything that's involved with teaching French, being bilingual, means you can go and access public money and no one is going to ask questions and we're talking billions of dollars. Anyway, enough of that.

Mark: Enough of that.

Steve: So, anyway, I just thought I would pick up on him. Anyone who's not interested in what I'm interested in is a fool. Mark: Well, on that note, are you interested in the Swine Flu, because here's certainly been a lot to do with the Swine Flu in the news lately? Steve: I know. I mean it's very hard. We're sitting here and all you can really do is hope that you don't get the Swine Flu. Mark: I guess so.

Steve: I don't know much about it. I gather it's another one of these illnesses that originates where people live in close proximity to animals, whether it be fowl, you know in terms of the Bird Flu, but every day you read something different. That the strain we have in Canada is not this virulent strain and people aren't going to die. I don't know. Mark: Well, yeah, and that all these people had died in Mexico, but nobody had died in the U.S. Although, I saw today that one person has died in the U.S. from it, apparently, so obviously there must be a few different strains around.

Steve: And do they really know that all these people who supposedly died of the Swine Flu, in fact, died of the Swine Flu? I mean people die from many different causes.

Mark: Well, yeah, you wonder how they know whether it's the Swine Flu or just a flu or what indicates that it's, in fact, the Swine Flu. And then, of course, you get all the accompanying hysteria and the economy is going to suffer because of the Swine Flu.

I saw another article where Rogers, which is on the local cell phone providers, was saying that their results this quarter will be affected. Because if travel restrictions are implemented and Canadians don't travel as much that will restrict the amount of roaming charges that people who travel and use their cell phones will incur. Steve: I know. You know what really annoys me with these roaming charges is I can have my phone when I'm traveling in Phoenix, Arizona or somewhere, Palm Springs, and I get one of these telemarketing phone calls. It's not even a live person that I can, you know, get mad at… Mark: Right.

Steve: …it's a recording! Mark: Yeah.

Steve: As soon as I hear this, of course, I turn it off, but you pay for each one of those.

Mark: For sure.

Steve: Another interesting thing about mobile telephones, cellular phones, charges and so forth, I read that there was a guy who had his cell phone stolen, I don't know, in Columbia or Bolivia; he's a Canadian. Mark: Right.

Steve: And he didn't report it and so whoever stole his telephone ran up $25,000 in charges. Now he's responsible for those $25,000 and the cell phone company won't back down; like he has to pay. Mark: Right.

Steve: I guess legally…legally, I guess they're right. Mark: Right.

Steve: Boy, I wouldn't want to be in that situation. Mark: That's unreal. Steve: I'm going to make sure I report my cell phone if I lose it. Mark: That's for sure, that's for sure. I don't know, I think it's different in different countries, but I think Canada is just about the worst insofar as cell phone charges and in terms of expense of cell phone and long distance charges. Steve: I'm sure it's related to the fact we have all kinds of ridiculous regulations and that it's over-regulated and less competition, so that the cell phone companies are in a monopolistic position and they can charge what they want and do what they want. Mark: Yeah, I think that's what it is. I mean we don't have many cell phone providers, so, as you say, the competition doesn't drive the price down. That was a big reason why the iPhone took so long to come to Canada; because the data packages were so expensive here that Apple didn't feel like it wanted to be a part of that whole thing. Steve: Yeah.

What else do we have in the news?

Mark: Well…

Steve: I'll tell you one thing on my blog, while we're on the subject of the arrogance of intellectuals or people who feel they're self-righteous. I posted on my blog about the fact that I visited the sawmill that I'm a part owner of and I talked about how great I think the wood industry is. That we have a surplus of wood in the northern hemisphere and in the southern hemisphere in the coniferous forests and, of course, inevitably, you'll get the people commenting who are of the sort of environmentalist strain. I posted some comments and research that we've done, because in our forest, which is a natural forest, we do research on the caribou, on the bears, on the migrating birds, just to see the impact of our activity on their, you know, ecosystem and their life and so forth. So this person comments with his counter piece. Fine, put out by the Green Association or whatever it is, that's fine. (We'll just let that airplane go over. ) But then he says, “You know, obviously, you're going to say that because you're in the industry. You know, I wouldn't ask a whaler about the whaling industry.” Well, my question is why wouldn't you? Who are you going to ask, some guy at a university? Some guy like you who's waving some fake sign? Mark: Some environmentalist organization that derives 80% of their income from revenue associated with talking about the negative affects of forestry or whatever the case may be?

Steve: I see nothing wrong with the fact that there are these environmental organizations. He posted this link on my blog and I leave it there for people who are interested. By all means, I think we should ask an environmentalist about our forest or about the whaling, but we should also ask the whaler.

Mark: Right.

Steve: He knows. He's got a perspective colored by his interest. The environmentalist has a perspective colored by his interests. Let's see who's got which facts; compare the facts. Mark: Unfortunately, people tend to perceive environmentalists as being objective…

Steve: Yeah.

Mark: …which is not the case at all.

Steve: No.

Mark: Their bread and butter are these environmental causes and scaring people into separating the money from them to keep up the inflow of money.

Steve: Well, that's good, nothing wrong with that. But, yeah, now what about the Crisis, what's going to happen on this Crisis? You know, every day there are three bits of good news and two bits of bad news.

Mark: Yeah.

I mean, I guess the thing is, nobody knows, nobody knows. I was reading something on the stock market, which was saying that, you know, this is not the time to pull out of the stock market. You want to stay invested; stock markets all go up over time. This may be the bottom, it may not, but if you miss the top that the stock market moves the most on. A small number of days, but if you're not invested during those days then you miss a large amount of the rise. I think this was obviously put out by somebody trying to promote stocks or an investment, but the point is nobody knows which way the market's going. Steve: Right.

Mark: I guess that article is trying to get people to not be afraid to stay invested.

Steve: Right.

Mark: If they're able to do that and if more and more people believe in a recovery, then all of a sudden things turn around. Steve: I mean the other thing, too, is to keep in mind, you know, what really is important. Obviously, if you have lost your job and whatever…the number of unemployed, the percentage has gone from five and it's going to up to seven-eight or nine percent. I mean those people are seriously affected. If they aren't bringing home a paycheck, then they aren't able to buy food for their family, so that's a really serious problem for those people. But for most people, the value of your house went down. But if you still owe on your house, that's fine. Now, if you don't… Like there are people (I think they call them in the States “upside down”) where they owe more; that their mortgage is larger than the value of their house. Mark: Right.

Steve: That's a pretty serious situation to be in. Mark: Yeah.

Steve: But, still again, you've got to allow things; over time, the value of the house will come up. Over time, if you have stocks, the value of the stocks will go up. Not everyone has stocks; it's a small percentage of people who have stocks. I mean the sun rises every day…

Mark: Right.

Steve: If I look at the things that I like to do, I like to get out when it's sunny. I just went for a run today. You know you get together with friends and family, you have something to eat. You share things with them, you share time with them. You know I think one can get overly-depressed thinking about the economic situation.

Mark: Well, that's right. Most people are still going out for dinner or they still want things, you know they're still buying things. Maybe not as much as they did before, but they're still going to Starbucks or whatever the case may be. Steve: You don't see the evidence here. I mean the streets are not deserted.

Mark: No, not by any means. But you do hear stories of people whose businesses have been seriously affected, for sure.

Steve: Right.

Mark: But, you know, at a day-to-day level people still carry on. People still need to eat, people still need to buy things, so… I mean, obviously, a large part of the Crisis is created by fear and perception and I guess, over time…

S But, it's real too, it's real too. Last night I had the dinner; our hockey team won our championship.

Mark: Right.

Steve: We had our celebration dinner...pasta night... so all the guys were there. A couple of them are in construction and a lot of people are laying off staff and there is not very much construction work. Now part of it is the post-Expo boom, but the other part of it is…

Mark: Expo?

Steve: Sorry, the post-Olympics.

Mark: Well, yeah.

Steve: A lot of the construction is no longer there.

Mark: Has completed, you mean.

Steve: Yeah and new construction is way down. I mean the Americans... housing starts in the United States are at a quarter of their high of a couple of years ago, so there are some people seriously affected.

Mark: Absolutely. I think the real estate and construction has been seriously affected.

Steve: And I heard on the radio, too, that one area that's particularly…this is my Portuguese podcast that I listen to…that Africa is pretty badly affected by this. Because obviously in Europe, where there's now increasing unemployment, a lot of people who are affected, initially, are these migrant workers – legal or illegal – from Africa who send money home. Now if they're out of work they can't send money home. There's been a reduction in foreign investment in Africa, which apparently was up the last few years and now that's fallen off. The price of oil affects countries, like Nigeria, Angola and stuff like this. And I guess foreign aid is down; although, I suspect that the foreign aid is a large waste of money anyway.

There was a book put out by an African journalist from Uganda…I'm not sure…Kenya, one of those countries, a serious economist, who did a study of the impact of foreign aid and came to the conclusion that it damaged Africa. Mark: I'm sure it does, I'm sure it does. Steve: That without the foreign aid, which distorts the market, which favors certain political cliques and the whole business… It's the same as the education sector in Canada, because the game is all about trying to grab more funding rather than improving the performance of your education system. Mark: Right.

Steve: Here, the aid, it's all about grabbing more aid and dividing it up amongst your friends and family and so, therefore, this distorts the market. And without that, she concluded based on her economic studies, the African countries would be more advanced. They would have more industries.

Mark: Right.

Steve: They would be more serious, less corrupt, so that the aid actually breeds corruption and distortion. I'm sure that's true. Mark: Well, I'm sure that's true. I mean how many years has the West been pumping money into Africa? Has their lot been improved?

Steve: No.

Mark: No.

So probably it's time to try a different approach. Steve: Right.

Mark: I mean it can't be any worse. Steve: Right.

Mark: But, of course, people feel good. I gave money to Africa, you should give money too and then we can both feel good.

Steve: Well, that's right. I mean, obviously, where there wasn't a school now there's a school. Mark: Right.

Steve: Where there was dirty water now there's clean water. I mean you can see some very, you know, specific examples where the lot of certain people was improved, which is a good thing.

Mark: Right.

Steve: But, overall, if the net result is, you know…

Mark: …to keep people down…

Steve: Zambia…

Mark: Right.

Steve: …look at Zambia today. They used to be able to feed themselves now they can't feed themselves and with that comes disease and poverty. So, yeah, here and there, there's a school, there's a new water pump… Mark: Right.

Steve: …but in the total picture, maybe that's not such a good thing. Mark: No.

I mean they have to learn how to build up their economy, so they can provide these things for themselves.

Steve: Right.

And let the genuinely entrepreneurial and capable people rise to the top.

Mark: Right.

Steve: Not those that are able to, you know…

Mark: …advance because of who they know.

Steve: That's right. Mark: Anyway, that's probably enough for today. Steve: Right.

Mark: We will take it up again next time.

Steve: Thank you for listening.

Mark: Bye.

Steve: Bye.

#241 Mark & Steve – Swine Flu #241 Mark & Steve – Schweinegrippe #241 Mark & Steve - Gripe porcina #241 マーク&スティーブ - 豚インフルエンザ #241 Mark & Steve - Gripe suína #241 Mark & Steve - Svininfluensa #241 马克和史蒂夫 – 猪流感

Mark:    Hello, everyone, and welcome to another EnglishLingQ Podcast. Mark: Hallo zusammen und willkommen zu einem weiteren EnglishLingQ-Podcast.

Mark here with Steve.

Steve:    Hello there. We're going to hear a little bit of background car noise. Wir werden ein wenig Autogeräusche im Hintergrund hören. That makes is authentic here. Das macht hier authentisch.

Mark:    We're enjoying the nice spring weather we're having today. Mark: Wir genießen heute das schöne Frühlingswetter. Steve:    We even have a visitor here in the room with us, Gordie the dog. Steve: Wir haben sogar einen Besucher hier im Raum, Gordie the dog.

Mark:    He may join in at some point. Mark: Er wird vielleicht irgendwann mitmachen.

Steve:    We hope not. Steve: Wir hoffen nicht.

Mark:    But he's kind of shy. Mark: Aber er ist irgendwie schüchtern. Steve:    That's right. Do you know what I want to talk about? Weißt du, worüber ich reden möchte?

Mark:    What's that? Markus: Was ist das? Steve:    Mark, I think that anybody who's not interested in what I'm interested in is a fool. Steve: Mark, ich denke, dass jeder, der sich nicht dafür interessiert, was mich interessiert, ein Dummkopf ist. Does that make sense? Ist das sinnvoll?

Mark:    Certainly.

Steve:    Anyone who doesn't share my interest is stupid. Steve: Jeder, der mein Interesse nicht teilt, ist dumm. Mark:    For sure. Markus: Auf jeden Fall.

I mean it goes without saying. Ich meine, es versteht sich von selbst.

Steve:    The reason I realize that is because a person who is much listened to in Canada, at least by some people, who gets invited to speak at universities, a certain Sacha Trudeau, son of our former…I won't use any kind of epithet…Prime Minister, Pierre Trudeau, this Sacha Trudeau, addressed students at the University of Western Ontario and had two things to say. Steve: Der Grund, warum mir das klar ist, ist, weil eine Person, der in Kanada viel zugehört wird, zumindest von einigen Leuten, die eingeladen wird, an Universitäten zu sprechen, ein gewisser Sacha Trudeau, Sohn unseres ehemaligen … Ich werde keine Art verwenden des Beinamens … Premierminister Pierre Trudeau, dieser Sacha Trudeau, wandte sich an Studenten der University of Western Ontario und hatte zwei Dinge zu sagen. One, he said, “People who only know one language can be very myopic, just look at the United States.”  That was his statement. Zum einen sagte er: „Menschen, die nur eine Sprache beherrschen, können sehr kurzsichtig sein, schauen Sie sich nur die Vereinigten Staaten an.“ Das war seine Aussage.

He speaks two languages, French and English and he's so impressed with himself. Er spricht zwei Sprachen, Französisch und Englisch, und er ist so beeindruckt von sich. He's convinced that anyone who doesn't speak two languages…he can be a brain surgeon, he can be an engineer, he can be a ballerina or she, it doesn't matter…these people are all myopic because they only speak one language. Er ist überzeugt, dass jeder, der nicht zwei Sprachen spricht … er Gehirnchirurg sein kann, er kann Ingenieur sein, er kann Ballerina sein oder sie, es spielt keine Rolle … diese Leute sind alle kurzsichtig, weil sie nur eine Sprache sprechen . Sacha Trudeau speaks two languages and therefore he is farseeing. Sacha Trudeau spricht zwei Sprachen und ist daher weitsichtig.

Mark:    Well he has two purposes with that statement:  (A) He draws attention to the fact that he is extremely clever because he does speak two languages and (B) he gets a cheap shot in at the States, which is part of the culture there. Mark: Nun, er verfolgt mit dieser Aussage zwei Zwecke: (A) Er lenkt die Aufmerksamkeit auf die Tatsache, dass er extrem schlau ist, weil er zwei Sprachen spricht, und (B) er bekommt eine billige Chance in den Staaten, die Teil der sind Kultur dort.

Steve:    With Barack Obama trying to buy out the American industry and hand out money and basically turn the United States into the American Socialist Republic, is that still fair game? Steve: Wenn Barack Obama versucht, die amerikanische Industrie aufzukaufen und Geld zu verteilen und die Vereinigten Staaten im Grunde in die Amerikanische Sozialistische Republik zu verwandeln, ist das immer noch ein faires Spiel?

Mark:    I think so, I'm pretty sure. Mark: Ich denke schon, ich bin mir ziemlich sicher. It's pretty hard to eradicate that mentality, the U.S. Es ist ziemlich schwer, diese Mentalität auszurotten, die USA bashing mentality of the Liberal Party here. Bashing-Mentalität der Liberalen Partei hier. That's a pretty strong core belief there. Das ist eine ziemlich starke Grundüberzeugung. Steve:    But it is rather extraordinary, you know. Steve: Aber es ist ziemlich außergewöhnlich, weißt du. I mean I speak 11 languages, I love languages. Ich meine, ich spreche 11 Sprachen, ich liebe Sprachen. I think languages are great, but there are all kinds of people who speak many languages who are (A) stupid. Ich finde Sprachen toll, aber es gibt alle möglichen Leute, die viele Sprachen sprechen und (A) dumm sind. Maybe I'm included in that category in some people's opinion. Vielleicht gehöre ich nach Meinung einiger Leute zu dieser Kategorie. It doesn't matter; some people like to play the violin. Es spielt keine Rolle; Manche Leute spielen gerne Geige. Mark:    Exactly.

Steve:    Some people like to do other things, how can you categorize? Steve: Manche Leute machen gerne andere Dinge, wie kannst du das einordnen?

Mark:    Lots of people do things that you have no interest in doing and are very good at them. Mark: Viele Leute tun Dinge, an denen Sie kein Interesse haben, und sind sehr gut darin.

Steve:    Well, sure.

Mark:    If they think anyone who doesn't know how to fix cars is an idiot that... Mark: Wenn sie denken, dass jemand, der nicht weiß, wie man Autos repariert, ein Idiot ist, dass... Steve:    I had a great friend, an older man who was a friend of the family, and he used to build these model sailboats and put them inside a bottle. Steve: Ich hatte einen großartigen Freund, einen älteren Mann, der ein Freund der Familie war, und er baute diese Modellsegelboote und steckte sie in eine Flasche. I mean I could never do that. Ich meine, ich könnte das niemals tun.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    That's a tremendous skill. Steve: Das ist eine enorme Fähigkeit. It's not very useful… Es ist nicht sehr nützlich… Mark:    No.

Steve:    …but it's a skill. I mean there are all kinds of useful skills, too, and just to say…  And then the second thing is to categorize, you know, look at America like everybody in the United States is myopic and everyone in Canada or in, I don't know, Russia, China, Afghanistan, they're not? Ich meine, es gibt auch alle möglichen nützlichen Fähigkeiten, und nur um zu sagen … Und dann ist die zweite Sache, Amerika zu kategorisieren, wissen Sie, schauen Sie sich Amerika an, als ob jeder in den Vereinigten Staaten kurzsichtig ist und jeder in Kanada oder in, ich weiß nicht Ich weiß nicht, Russland, China, Afghanistan, sie sind es nicht? Mark:    Right.

I don't know. Steve:    How can you be so retarded? Steve: Wie kannst du nur so zurückgeblieben sein? And this guy gets invited to talk… Und dieser Typ wird zum Reden eingeladen…

Mark:    It's amazing. Markus: Es ist erstaunlich. Steve:    …and all the so self-righteous, intellectual people all giggle when he says stuff like that. Steve: … und all die so selbstgerechten, intellektuellen Leute kichern alle, wenn er solche Sachen sagt.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    What an idiot. Steve: Was für ein Idiot. What an absolute idiot. He is living proof that you can speak more than one language and be an idiot. Er ist der lebende Beweis dafür, dass man mehr als eine Sprache sprechen und ein Idiot sein kann.

Mark:    Yes, he is.

Steve:    Anyway, that was the one thing. Steve: Wie auch immer, das war das eine. He also said, in the same presentation, that Canada being bilingual is worth more to us than the tarsands. In derselben Präsentation sagte er auch, dass die Zweisprachigkeit Kanadas für uns mehr wert sei als die Teersande.

Mark:    Or as much to us. Mark: Oder so viel zu uns.

Steve:    Or as much to us as the tarsands. Steve: Oder so viel für uns wie die Teersande. No, but in terms of value, money-wise. Nein, aber in Bezug auf den Wert, in Bezug auf das Geld. Well, no, because being bilingual costs us money. Nun, nein, denn Zweisprachigkeit kostet uns Geld. It costs us a lot of money because it's a political slush fund. Es kostet uns viel Geld, weil es eine politische schwarze Kasse ist. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    So that anything that's involved with teaching French, being bilingual, means you can go and access public money and no one is going to ask questions and we're talking billions of dollars. Steve: Damit alles, was mit dem Französischunterricht zu tun hat, zweisprachig zu sein, bedeutet, dass Sie Zugang zu öffentlichen Geldern haben und niemand Fragen stellen wird, und wir reden über Milliarden von Dollar. Anyway, enough of that. Wie auch immer, genug davon.

Mark:    Enough of that.

Steve:    So, anyway, I just thought I would pick up on him. Steve: Also, jedenfalls dachte ich, ich würde ihn abholen. Anyone who's not interested in what I'm interested in is a fool. Jeder, der sich nicht dafür interessiert, was mich interessiert, ist ein Narr. Mark:    Well, on that note, are you interested in the Swine Flu, because here's certainly been a lot to do with the Swine Flu in the news lately? Mark: Nun, in diesem Sinne, interessieren Sie sich für die Schweinegrippe, weil hier in letzter Zeit sicherlich viel über die Schweinegrippe in den Nachrichten zu tun war? Steve:    I know. I mean it's very hard. Ich meine, es ist sehr schwer. We're sitting here and all you can really do is hope that you don't get the Swine Flu. Wir sitzen hier und alles, was Sie wirklich tun können, ist zu hoffen, dass Sie nicht die Schweinegrippe bekommen. Mark:    I guess so. Markus: Ich denke schon.

Steve:    I don't know much about it. I gather it's another one of these illnesses that originates where people live in close proximity to animals, whether it be fowl, you know in terms of the Bird Flu, but every day you read something different. Ich nehme an, es ist eine weitere dieser Krankheiten, die dort entsteht, wo Menschen in unmittelbarer Nähe von Tieren leben, sei es Geflügel, Sie wissen in Bezug auf die Vogelgrippe, aber Sie lesen jeden Tag etwas anderes. That the strain we have in Canada is not this virulent strain and people aren't going to die. Dass der Stamm, den wir in Kanada haben, nicht dieser virulente Stamm ist und Menschen nicht sterben werden. I don't know. Mark:    Well, yeah, and that all these people had died in Mexico, but nobody had died in the U.S. Mark: Nun, ja, und dass all diese Menschen in Mexiko gestorben sind, aber niemand in den USA gestorben ist Although, I saw today that one person has died in the U.S. Obwohl ich heute gesehen habe, dass eine Person in den USA gestorben ist from it, apparently, so obviously there must be a few different strains around. davon anscheinend, also muss es offensichtlich ein paar verschiedene Stämme geben.

Steve:    And do they really know that all these people who supposedly died of the Swine Flu, in fact, died of the Swine Flu? Steve: Und wissen sie wirklich, dass all diese Menschen, die angeblich an der Schweinegrippe gestorben sind, tatsächlich an der Schweinegrippe gestorben sind? I mean people die from many different causes. Ich meine, Menschen sterben aus vielen verschiedenen Gründen.

Mark:    Well, yeah, you wonder how they know whether it's the Swine Flu or just a flu or what indicates that it's, in fact, the Swine Flu. Mark: Nun, ja, Sie fragen sich, woher sie wissen, ob es die Schweinegrippe oder nur eine Grippe ist oder was darauf hindeutet, dass es sich tatsächlich um die Schweinegrippe handelt. And then, of course, you get all the accompanying hysteria and the economy is going to suffer because of the Swine Flu. Und dann bekommt man natürlich all die begleitende Hysterie und die Wirtschaft wird wegen der Schweinegrippe leiden.

I saw another article where Rogers, which is on the local cell phone providers, was saying that their results this quarter will be affected. Ich habe einen anderen Artikel gesehen, in dem Rogers, der bei den lokalen Mobilfunkanbietern tätig ist, sagte, dass ihre Ergebnisse in diesem Quartal beeinträchtigt werden. Because if travel restrictions are implemented and Canadians don't travel as much that will restrict the amount of roaming charges that people who travel and use their cell phones will incur. Denn wenn Reisebeschränkungen eingeführt werden und Kanadier nicht so viel reisen, wird dies die Höhe der Roaming-Gebühren einschränken, die Personen entstehen, die reisen und ihre Mobiltelefone benutzen. Steve:    I know. You know what really annoys me with these roaming charges is I can have my phone when I'm traveling in Phoenix, Arizona or somewhere, Palm Springs, and I get one of these telemarketing phone calls. Weißt du, was mich an diesen Roaming-Gebühren wirklich ärgert, ist, dass ich mein Telefon haben kann, wenn ich in Phoenix, Arizona oder irgendwo anders in Palm Springs unterwegs bin, und ich einen dieser Telemarketing-Anrufe erhalte. It's not even a live person that I can, you know, get mad at… Es ist nicht einmal eine lebende Person, auf die ich wütend werden kann … Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …it's a recording! Steve: …es ist eine Aufnahme! Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    As soon as I hear this, of course, I turn it off, but you pay for each one of those. Steve: Sobald ich das höre, schalte ich es natürlich aus, aber du bezahlst für jedes davon.

Mark:    For sure.

Steve:    Another interesting thing about mobile telephones, cellular phones, charges and so forth, I read that there was a guy who had his cell phone stolen, I don't know, in Columbia or Bolivia; he's a Canadian. Steve: Eine andere interessante Sache über Mobiltelefone, Handys, Gebühren und so weiter, ich habe gelesen, dass es einen Typen gab, dem sein Handy gestohlen wurde, ich weiß nicht, in Kolumbien oder Bolivien; er ist Kanadier. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    And he didn't report it and so whoever stole his telephone ran up $25,000 in charges. Steve: Und er hat es nicht gemeldet, und so musste derjenige, der sein Telefon gestohlen hat, 25.000 Dollar an Gebühren zahlen. Now he's responsible for those $25,000 and the cell phone company won't back down; like he has to pay. Jetzt ist er für diese 25.000 Dollar verantwortlich und die Mobilfunkgesellschaft wird nicht nachgeben; als ob er zahlen müsste. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    I guess legally…legally, I guess they're right. Steve: Ich schätze rechtlich … rechtlich haben sie wohl recht. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Boy, I wouldn't want to be in that situation. Steve: Junge, ich möchte nicht in dieser Situation sein. Mark:    That's unreal. Mark: Das ist unwirklich. Steve:    I'm going to make sure I report my cell phone if I lose it. Steve: Ich werde dafür sorgen, dass ich mein Handy melde, wenn ich es verliere. Mark:    That's for sure, that's for sure. Mark: Das ist sicher, das ist sicher. I don't know, I think it's different in different countries, but I think Canada is just about the worst insofar as cell phone charges and in terms of expense of cell phone and long distance charges. Ich weiß nicht, ich denke, es ist in verschiedenen Ländern unterschiedlich, aber ich denke, Kanada ist so ziemlich das Schlimmste in Bezug auf Handygebühren und in Bezug auf die Kosten für Handy- und Ferngesprächsgebühren. Steve:    I'm sure it's related to the fact we have all kinds of ridiculous regulations and that it's over-regulated and less competition, so that the cell phone companies are in a monopolistic position and they can charge what they want and do what they want. Steve: Ich bin mir sicher, dass es mit der Tatsache zusammenhängt, dass wir alle möglichen lächerlichen Vorschriften haben und dass es überreguliert und weniger Wettbewerb gibt, so dass die Mobilfunkunternehmen in einer monopolistischen Position sind und sie verlangen können, was sie wollen und tun, was sie wollen wollen. Mark:    Yeah, I think that's what it is. Mark: Ja, ich denke, das ist es. I mean we don't have many cell phone providers, so, as you say, the competition doesn't drive the price down. Ich meine, wir haben nicht viele Mobilfunkanbieter, also drückt die Konkurrenz, wie Sie sagen, den Preis nicht. That was a big reason why the iPhone took so long to come to Canada; because the data packages were so expensive here that Apple didn't feel like it wanted to be a part of that whole thing. Das war ein wichtiger Grund, warum das iPhone so lange brauchte, um nach Kanada zu kommen; weil die Datenpakete hier so teuer waren, dass Apple nicht das Gefühl hatte, bei dem Ganzen mitmachen zu wollen. Steve:    Yeah.

What else do we have in the news? Was haben wir noch in den Nachrichten?

Mark:    Well…

Steve:    I'll tell you one thing on my blog, while we're on the subject of the arrogance of intellectuals or people who feel they're self-righteous. Steve: Eines sage ich dir in meinem Blog, wo wir gerade bei der Arroganz von Intellektuellen oder Menschen sind, die sich selbstgerecht fühlen. I posted on my blog about the fact that I visited the sawmill that I'm a part owner of and I talked about how great I think the wood industry is. Ich habe in meinem Blog darüber berichtet, dass ich das Sägewerk besucht habe, dessen Teilhaber ich bin, und ich habe darüber gesprochen, wie großartig ich die Holzindustrie finde. That we have a surplus of wood in the northern hemisphere and in the southern hemisphere in the coniferous forests and, of course, inevitably, you'll get the people commenting who are of the sort of environmentalist strain. Dass wir auf der Nordhalbkugel einen Holzüberschuss haben und auf der Südhalbkugel in den Nadelwäldern und natürlich kommen unweigerlich die Leute zu Wort, die von der Sorte Umweltschützer sind. I posted some comments and research that we've done, because in our forest, which is a natural forest, we do research on the caribou, on the bears, on the migrating birds, just to see the impact of our activity on their, you know, ecosystem and their life and so forth. Ich habe einige Kommentare und Recherchen gepostet, die wir durchgeführt haben, denn in unserem Wald, der ein natürlicher Wald ist, forschen wir über die Karibus, über die Bären, über die Zugvögel, nur um die Auswirkungen unserer Aktivitäten auf ihre, Sie wissen schon, Ökosysteme und ihr Leben und so weiter. So this person comments with his counter piece. Diese Person kommentiert also mit ihrem Gegenstück. Fine, put out by the Green Association or whatever it is, that's fine. Gut, herausgegeben vom Grünen Verband oder was auch immer das ist, das ist gut. (We'll just let that airplane go over. (Wir lassen das Flugzeug einfach überfliegen. )  But then he says, “You know, obviously, you're going to say that because you're in the industry. ) Aber dann sagt er: „Weißt du, offensichtlich wirst du das sagen, weil du in der Branche bist. You know, I wouldn't ask a whaler about the whaling industry.”  Well, my question is why wouldn't you? Weißt du, ich würde einen Walfänger nicht nach der Walfangindustrie fragen.“ Nun, meine Frage ist, warum würdest du es nicht tun? Who are you going to ask, some guy at a university? Wen wirst du fragen, irgendeinen Typen an einer Universität? Some guy like you who's waving some fake sign? Ein Typ wie Sie, der mit einem falschen Schild wedelt? Mark:    Some environmentalist organization that derives 80% of their income from revenue associated with talking about the negative affects of forestry or whatever the case may be? Mark: Eine Umweltorganisation, die 80 % ihres Einkommens aus Einnahmen bezieht, die damit verbunden sind, über die negativen Auswirkungen der Forstwirtschaft zu sprechen oder was auch immer der Fall sein mag?

Steve:    I see nothing wrong with the fact that there are these environmental organizations. Steve: Ich sehe nichts Falsches daran, dass es diese Umweltorganisationen gibt. He posted this link on my blog and I leave it there for people who are interested. Er hat diesen Link in meinem Blog gepostet und ich lasse ihn dort für Leute, die daran interessiert sind. By all means, I think we should ask an environmentalist about our forest or about the whaling, but we should also ask the whaler. Ich denke, wir sollten auf jeden Fall einen Umweltschützer nach unserem Wald oder nach dem Walfang fragen, aber wir sollten auch den Walfänger fragen.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    He knows. He's got a perspective colored by his interest. Er hat eine Perspektive, die von seinem Interesse gefärbt ist. The environmentalist has a perspective colored by his interests. Der Umweltschützer hat eine von seinen Interessen gefärbte Perspektive. Let's see who's got which facts; compare the facts. Mal sehen, wer welche Fakten hat; Vergleichen Sie die Fakten. Mark:    Unfortunately, people tend to perceive environmentalists as being objective… Mark: Leider neigen Menschen dazu, Umweltschützer als objektiv wahrzunehmen …

Steve:    Yeah.

Mark:    …which is not the case at all. Mark: …was überhaupt nicht der Fall ist.

Steve:    No.

Mark:    Their bread and butter are these environmental causes and scaring people into separating the money from them to keep up the inflow of money. Mark: Ihr Brot und Butter sind diese Umweltursachen und die Angst der Menschen, das Geld von ihnen zu trennen, um den Geldzufluss aufrechtzuerhalten.

Steve:    Well, that's good, nothing wrong with that. Steve: Nun, das ist gut, daran ist nichts auszusetzen. But, yeah, now what about the Crisis, what's going to happen on this Crisis? Aber ja, was ist jetzt mit der Krise, was wird in dieser Krise passieren? You know, every day there are three bits of good news and two bits of bad news. Weißt du, jeden Tag gibt es drei gute Nachrichten und zwei schlechte Nachrichten.

Mark:    Yeah.

I mean, I guess the thing is, nobody knows, nobody knows. Ich meine, ich denke, die Sache ist, niemand weiß es, niemand weiß es. یعنی حدس می‌زنم موضوع این است که هیچ‌کس نمی‌داند، هیچ‌کس نمی‌داند. I was reading something on the stock market, which was saying that, you know, this is not the time to pull out of the stock market. Ich habe etwas an der Börse gelesen, das besagte, dass dies nicht der richtige Zeitpunkt ist, um sich aus der Börse zurückzuziehen. داشتم چیزی در بورس می خواندم که می گفت، می دانید، الان زمان خروج از بورس نیست. You want to stay invested; stock markets all go up over time. Sie wollen investiert bleiben; Alle Aktienmärkte steigen im Laufe der Zeit. This may be the bottom, it may not, but if you miss the top that the stock market moves the most on. Dies kann der Tiefpunkt sein, muss es aber nicht, aber wenn Sie das Hoch verpassen, bewegt sich der Aktienmarkt am meisten. A small number of days, but if you're not invested during those days then you miss a large amount of the rise. Eine kleine Anzahl von Tagen, aber wenn Sie an diesen Tagen nicht investiert sind, verpassen Sie einen großen Teil des Anstiegs. I think this was obviously put out by somebody trying to promote stocks or an investment, but the point is nobody knows which way the market's going. Ich denke, das wurde offensichtlich von jemandem verbreitet, der versucht, Aktien oder eine Investition zu fördern, aber der Punkt ist, dass niemand weiß, in welche Richtung sich der Markt entwickelt. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    I guess that article is trying to get people to not be afraid to stay invested. Mark: Ich denke, dieser Artikel versucht, die Leute dazu zu bringen, keine Angst zu haben, investiert zu bleiben.

Steve:    Right.

Mark:    If they're able to do that and if more and more people believe in a recovery, then all of a sudden things turn around. Mark: Wenn sie das schaffen und immer mehr Menschen an eine Genesung glauben, dann dreht sich alles plötzlich um. Steve:    I mean the other thing, too, is to keep in mind, you know, what really is important. Steve: Ich meine, die andere Sache ist auch, im Auge zu behalten, wissen Sie, was wirklich wichtig ist. Obviously, if you have lost your job and whatever…the number of unemployed, the percentage has gone from five and it's going to up to seven-eight or nine percent. Offensichtlich, wenn Sie Ihren Job verloren haben und was auch immer … die Zahl der Arbeitslosen, der Prozentsatz ist von fünf auf sieben bis acht oder neun Prozent gestiegen. I mean those people are seriously affected. Ich meine, diese Leute sind ernsthaft betroffen. If they aren't bringing home a paycheck, then they aren't able to buy food for their family, so that's a really serious problem for those people. Wenn sie keinen Gehaltsscheck mit nach Hause bringen, können sie keine Lebensmittel für ihre Familie kaufen, also ist das ein wirklich ernstes Problem für diese Leute. But for most people, the value of your house went down. Aber für die meisten Menschen ist der Wert Ihres Hauses gesunken. But if you still owe on your house, that's fine. Aber wenn Sie noch Schulden für Ihr Haus haben, ist das in Ordnung. Now, if you don't…  Like there are people (I think they call them in the States “upside down”) where they owe more; that their mortgage is larger than the value of their house. Nun, wenn Sie das nicht tun … Als ob es Leute gibt (ich glaube, sie nennen sie in den Staaten „auf den Kopf gestellt“), denen sie mehr schulden; dass ihre Hypothek höher ist als der Wert ihres Hauses. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    That's a pretty serious situation to be in. Steve: Das ist eine ziemlich ernste Situation. Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    But, still again, you've got to allow things; over time, the value of the house will come up. Steve: Aber noch einmal, du musst Dinge zulassen; Mit der Zeit steigt der Wert des Hauses. Over time, if you have stocks, the value of the stocks will go up. Wenn Sie Aktien haben, wird der Wert der Aktien im Laufe der Zeit steigen. Not everyone has stocks; it's a small percentage of people who have stocks. Nicht jeder hat Aktien; Es ist ein kleiner Prozentsatz der Leute, die Aktien haben. I mean the sun rises every day… Ich meine, die Sonne geht jeden Tag auf…

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    If I look at the things that I like to do, I like to get out when it's sunny. Steve: Wenn ich mir die Dinge ansehe, die ich gerne mache, gehe ich gerne raus, wenn es sonnig ist. I just went for a run today. Ich bin heute einfach laufen gegangen. You know you get together with friends and family, you have something to eat. Sie wissen, dass Sie sich mit Freunden und Familie treffen, Sie haben etwas zu essen. You share things with them, you share time with them. Du teilst Dinge mit ihnen, du teilst Zeit mit ihnen. You know I think one can get overly-depressed thinking about the economic situation. Weißt du, ich denke, man kann übermäßig depressiv werden, wenn man an die wirtschaftliche Situation denkt.

Mark:    Well, that's right. Most people are still going out for dinner or they still want things, you know they're still buying things. Die meisten Leute gehen immer noch essen oder wollen immer noch Dinge, Sie wissen, dass sie immer noch Dinge kaufen. Maybe not as much as they did before, but they're still going to Starbucks or whatever the case may be. Vielleicht nicht so viel wie vorher, aber sie gehen immer noch zu Starbucks oder was auch immer der Fall sein mag. Steve:    You don't see the evidence here. Steve: Du siehst hier keine Beweise. I mean the streets are not deserted. Ich meine, die Straßen sind nicht menschenleer.

Mark:    No, not by any means. Markus: Nein, auf keinen Fall. But you do hear stories of people whose businesses have been seriously affected, for sure. Aber Sie hören sicherlich Geschichten von Menschen, deren Unternehmen ernsthaft betroffen sind.

Steve:    Right.

Mark:    But, you know, at a day-to-day level people still carry on. Mark: Aber weißt du, auf der täglichen Ebene machen die Leute immer noch weiter. People still need to eat, people still need to buy things, so…  I mean, obviously, a large part of the Crisis is created by fear and perception and I guess, over time… Die Leute müssen immer noch essen, die Leute müssen immer noch Dinge kaufen, also … Ich meine, offensichtlich wird ein großer Teil der Krise durch Angst und Wahrnehmung verursacht, und ich denke, im Laufe der Zeit …

S    But, it's real too, it's real too. S Aber es ist auch echt, es ist auch echt. Last night I had the dinner; our hockey team won our championship. Letzte Nacht hatte ich das Abendessen; unsere Eishockeymannschaft hat unsere Meisterschaft gewonnen.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    We had our celebration dinner...pasta night... so all the guys were there. Steve: Wir hatten unser festliches Abendessen … Pasta-Abend … also waren alle Jungs da. A couple of them are in construction and a lot of people are laying off staff and there is not very much construction work. Ein paar von ihnen befinden sich im Bau und viele Leute entlassen Personal und es gibt nicht sehr viel Bauarbeit. Now part of it is the post-Expo boom, but the other part of it is… Jetzt ist ein Teil davon der Post-Expo-Boom, aber der andere Teil davon ist…

Mark:    Expo? Markus: Messe?

Steve:    Sorry, the post-Olympics. Steve: Tut mir leid, die nach den Olympischen Spielen.

Mark:    Well, yeah.

Steve:    A lot of the construction is no longer there. Steve: Vieles von der Konstruktion ist nicht mehr da.

Mark:    Has completed, you mean. Mark: Ist abgeschlossen, meinst du.

Steve:    Yeah and new construction is way down. Steve: Ja, und der Neubau ist weit im Keller. I mean the Americans... housing starts in the United States are at a quarter of their high of a couple of years ago, so there are some people seriously affected. Ich meine die Amerikaner... die Baubeginne in den Vereinigten Staaten haben ein Viertel ihres Höchststands von vor ein paar Jahren erreicht, also gibt es einige Leute, die ernsthaft betroffen sind.

Mark:    Absolutely. I think the real estate and construction has been seriously affected. Ich denke, der Immobilien- und Bausektor wurde ernsthaft in Mitleidenschaft gezogen.

Steve:    And I heard on the radio, too, that one area that's particularly…this is my Portuguese podcast that I listen to…that Africa is pretty badly affected by this. Steve: Und ich habe auch im Radio gehört, dass ein Bereich besonders…das ist mein portugiesischer Podcast, den ich höre…dass Afrika davon ziemlich stark betroffen ist. Because obviously in Europe, where there's now increasing unemployment, a lot of people who are affected, initially, are these migrant workers – legal or illegal – from Africa who send money home. Denn offensichtlich sind in Europa, wo die Arbeitslosigkeit jetzt zunimmt, viele Betroffene zunächst diese Arbeitsmigranten – legal oder illegal – aus Afrika, die Geld nach Hause schicken. Now if they're out of work they can't send money home. Wenn sie jetzt arbeitslos sind, können sie kein Geld nach Hause schicken. There's been a reduction in foreign investment in Africa, which apparently was up the last few years and now that's fallen off. Es gab einen Rückgang der Auslandsinvestitionen in Afrika, die in den letzten paar Jahren offensichtlich gestiegen waren und nun zurückgegangen sind. The price of oil affects countries, like Nigeria, Angola and stuff like this. Der Ölpreis beeinflusst Länder wie Nigeria, Angola und solche Sachen. And I guess foreign aid is down; although, I suspect that the foreign aid is a large waste of money anyway. Und ich schätze, die Auslandshilfe ist zurückgegangen; obwohl ich vermute, dass die Auslandshilfe sowieso eine große Geldverschwendung ist.

There was a book put out by an African journalist from Uganda…I'm not sure…Kenya, one of those countries, a serious economist, who did a study of the impact of foreign aid and came to the conclusion that it damaged Africa. Es gab ein Buch von einem afrikanischen Journalisten aus Uganda … ich bin mir nicht sicher … Kenia, eines dieser Länder, ein seriöser Wirtschaftswissenschaftler, der eine Studie über die Auswirkungen der Auslandshilfe durchgeführt hat und zu dem Schluss gekommen ist, dass sie Afrika geschadet hat. Mark:    I'm sure it does, I'm sure it does. Mark: Ich bin mir sicher, dass es das tut, ich bin mir sicher, dass es das tut. Steve:    That without the foreign aid, which distorts the market, which favors certain political cliques and the whole business…  It's the same as the education sector in Canada, because the game is all about trying to grab more funding rather than improving the performance of your education system. Steve: Das ohne die Auslandshilfe, die den Markt verzerrt, bestimmte politische Cliquen und das ganze Geschäft begünstigt … Es ist das gleiche wie im Bildungssektor in Kanada, weil es im Spiel darum geht, mehr Geld zu bekommen, anstatt die Leistung zu verbessern Ihr Bildungssystem. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Here, the aid, it's all about grabbing more aid and dividing it up amongst your friends and family and so, therefore, this distorts the market. Steve: Hier, bei der Hilfe, geht es darum, mehr Hilfe zu bekommen und sie unter Freunden und Familie aufzuteilen, und deshalb verzerrt das den Markt. And without that, she concluded based on her economic studies, the African countries would be more advanced. Und ohne das, so schloss sie aus ihren Wirtschaftsstudien, wären die afrikanischen Länder weiter fortgeschritten. They would have more industries. Sie würden mehr Industrien haben.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    They would be more serious, less corrupt, so that the aid actually breeds corruption and distortion. Steve: Sie wären seriöser, weniger korrupt, so dass die Hilfe tatsächlich Korruption und Verzerrung hervorbringt. I'm sure that's true. Mark:    Well, I'm sure that's true. I mean how many years has the West been pumping money into Africa? Ich meine, seit wie vielen Jahren pumpt der Westen Geld nach Afrika? Has their lot been improved? Hat sich ihr Los verbessert?

Steve:    No.

Mark:    No.

So probably it's time to try a different approach. Es ist also wahrscheinlich an der Zeit, einen anderen Ansatz zu versuchen. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    I mean it can't be any worse. Mark: Ich meine, es kann nicht schlimmer sein. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    But, of course, people feel good. I gave money to Africa, you should give money too and then we can both feel good. Ich habe Afrika Geld gegeben, du solltest auch Geld geben, dann können wir uns beide wohlfühlen.

Steve:    Well, that's right. I mean, obviously, where there wasn't a school now there's a school. Ich meine, wo es keine Schule gab, gibt es jetzt eine Schule. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Where there was dirty water now there's clean water. Steve: Wo schmutziges Wasser war, ist jetzt sauberes Wasser. I mean you can see some very, you know, specific examples where the lot of certain people was improved, which is a good thing. Ich meine, Sie können einige sehr, wissen Sie, konkrete Beispiele sehen, wo das Los bestimmter Leute verbessert wurde, was eine gute Sache ist.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    But, overall, if the net result is, you know… Steve: Aber insgesamt, wenn das Nettoergebnis ist, weißt du …

Mark:    …to keep people down… Mark: … um die Leute unten zu halten …

Steve:    Zambia… Steve: Sambia …

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …look at Zambia today. They used to be able to feed themselves now they can't feed themselves and with that comes disease and poverty. Früher konnten sie sich selbst ernähren, jetzt können sie sich nicht mehr selbst ernähren, und damit kommen Krankheit und Armut. So, yeah, here and there, there's a school, there's a new water pump… Also, ja, hier und da gibt es eine Schule, es gibt eine neue Wasserpumpe … Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …but in the total picture, maybe that's not such a good thing. Steve: …aber im Gesamtbild ist das vielleicht nicht so gut. Mark:    No.

I mean they have to learn how to build up their economy, so they can provide these things for themselves. Ich meine, sie müssen lernen, wie sie ihre Wirtschaft aufbauen, damit sie sich diese Dinge selbst leisten können.

Steve:    Right.

And let the genuinely entrepreneurial and capable people rise to the top. Und lassen Sie die wirklich unternehmerischen und fähigen Leute an die Spitze steigen.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Not those that are able to, you know… Steve: Nicht die, die dazu in der Lage sind, weißt du …

Mark:    …advance because of who they know. Mark: …vorrücken, weil sie wissen, wen sie kennen.

Steve:    That's right. Mark:    Anyway, that's probably enough for today. Mark: Wie auch immer, das reicht wahrscheinlich für heute. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    We will take it up again next time. Mark: Wir werden es das nächste Mal wieder aufgreifen.

Steve:    Thank you for listening. Steve: Danke fürs Zuhören.

Mark:    Bye.

Steve:    Bye.