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Steve's Language Learning Tips, ChatGPT, AI & Language Learning with @LucaLampariello (1)

ChatGPT, AI & Language Learning with @LucaLampariello (1)

Steve: Hi Luca.

Today I have a special guest, my good friend Luca Lampariello

and we're gonna talk about new stuff, ChatGPT, AI, artificial Intelligence,

all the different ways that technology is going to affect language learning. Luca, good morning,

good afternoon, good evening. Luca: Nice to see you, Steve,

as always. Um, thanks for the invitation. Steve: Now you being the globe trotter

that you are, where do we find you? Luca: It's just my place in Rome, you know,

it's just a, my simple place in Rome here. Okay. I'm gonna be here for a little bit and then I've

gotta be traveling, uh, quite a lot this summer. Steve: Ah-huh . Um, so we hear these

buzzwords ChatGPT, AI, I don't know, web 3.0. Steve: And, and then on the other hand, you hear

these people saying, well, technology is gonna make it unnecessary to learn languages. Where do

you stand on all this stuff? Have you used any of it? Or are you using aspects of artificial

intelligence in your language learning? Luca: So, um, I'm using as, as you are

using like the internet in general. Luca: Um, and more specifically if you ask

me specifically about artificial intelligence tools, I think at the end of the day, we use,

we've been using them for a long time. Let me give you an example of that,

Google Translate or Deep L uh, or all these systems that where you can, for example,

LingQ, uh, LingQ does that as well. Luca: You just click on a word, behind that,

there's algorithms that process the information and transforms that information from one language

to the other. So we've been using that. Apart from ChatGPT, which is the new thing. But we've

been using technology and artificial intelligence for a long time. Um, now let me tell you this,

as you yourself say in a lot of videos, um, this is the golden era uh, of language learning.

Nothing... like, never, never in, in, in, uh, modern history have his language learning become

so easy to actually do, right. So, uh, absolutely. So I believe that technology is facilitating the

acquisition of any language. Nowadays we have a wealth of possibilities, but we also have to take

into account that we still learn with our brain. Luca: Whatever happens when it comes to language

running happens here in our head. So I think one thing we have to take into account is, uh, you

know, I think we have to educate ourselves and also educate the next generation to use the tools

that we have for our benefit because, uh, the internet and also the artificial intelligence

has pros and cons, like everything. Luca: So it's up to us to understand how

to use it, um, you know, to, to learn languages better and in general to have a better life.

Steve: Absolutely. And, uh, and we'll get into ChatGPT. I mean, text to speech, uh,

obviously is an application of, uh, uh, artificial intelligence.

Um, you know, and I'm on LingQ. If I click on a word, I can hear it.

Steve: Artificial voice. I wouldn't use that for, uh, any long period of text.

But if I come across a word in Arabic and I can't figure out how to pronounce it,

I'll just click on it and I hear it. So text to speech dictation. Uh, we can use dictation

now on our various. Uh, also just to find stuff on the internet, you know, find content also,

like I'll find, I get podcasts in the language I'm learning, and I'll put it on an automatic

transcription website to get a transcript. Steve: It's 90%, it's not ideal, but it's

better than nothing otherwise. There's just too many words there that I don't know. Uh, so yeah,

there's all kinds of... and when I, and just get getting back to what you said about this being the

golden age 50 years ago, before you were born uh, I would be scouring the bookstores to find a book,

which maybe had a glossary behind each chapter so that I could possibly read this thing in Chinese,

and every two weeks or month I'd go back to the bookstores hoping there was something new.

Steve: This was in Hong Kong, and now you don't have to do that. You just find whatever you want

on the internet. Luca: Agreed.

Luca: Um, you know, that reminds me of myself when I was trying to learn, um, English back

in the day, or French, or even Dutch. And that was like almost 30 years ago. Well,

25 years ago. And it was a different world. Luca: And I also remember 15 years ago when

I started learning Chinese, even if, um, I used LingQ, LingQ I have to thank you

for creating LingQ because it's just, I, I almost learned Chinese exclusively through

that. Now the thing is when, when I was using, uh, I first used Assimil to get a foundation,

but then I used exclusively, uh, LingQ. Luca: Now, the thing that happened back

then is that I was not using the, I should have, I was not using, you know, you can click and you

can see words. What I was doing is I was also printing, uh, the scripts and then I had this

small vocabulary and I was trying to painstakingly understand everything, which was very labor,

a very laborious process nowadays, right? Luca: You can get a, you, you, you can go

on LingQ or you can just download stuff and you can translate it and you can have an artificial,

uh, you know, voice read it if you want it in another language. It's amazing what

we can do nowadays. So... Steve: Absolutely amazing.

Luca: It, it's, it's mind, mind blowing. Uh, uh, I, I think that

a lot of people do not still know. Luca: I still believe that. And I,

I, I, I strongly believe that we as educators, we have to help people understand how to use these

tools because again, I've been, for example, uh, I was in Bergamo I was invited to Bergamo

in northern Italy and I talked to hundreds and hundreds of students and they have amazing tools.

Luca: But most of the time, unfortunately, 'cause I saw it firsthand and I talked to some of them,

most of, of the time, that the time they spend, not all of them of course, those who wanna learn,

they will learn, but a lot of them are sucked in this rabbit hole of Instagram,

of TikTok. If I were, if I could go back, if I could go back to, uh, to when I was 15,

I would learn all the time with these tools. Luca: It would be amazing. So again,

there's always a dark side to things. It's like nowadays we have a lot of tools,

a lot of possibilities, a lot of language, learning materials, for example. But people

still get stuck in the paradox of choice. What do I choose? They, they're still not sure. And when

it comes to tools, they don't know how to, uh, use them. There's this, uh, word that I recently

stumbled upon in a, in a French, uh, newspaper. It was Infobesity or something like that. There's too

much information out there, you know, so, um, yes. Um, and going back to what you were saying before,

going back to what you were saying before about using, um, you know, using technology.

Luca: I've been experimenting with this. There's so many things you can actually do with, uh, a

combination of text, audio, and translation, and also platforms that can help you, uh,

decipher the meaning of words. So, um, it's just mind blowing. It has... the, the way I'm learning

languages is speeding up because of this. Luca: And I see that the people who use

them to their own benefit, they know how to learn. They're gonna be the winners,

the winners of tomorrow, so to speak. Steve: Right now, uh, I think there's sort of

two types of learners. The, the people who aren't necessarily as keen as we

are. And I think for those people, some of the things that Duolingo has

introduced a certain level of gamification. Steve: Uh, I know now at LingQ we've got this

sentence review where we have these matching pair or you have to reassemble a sentence.

And I think that, I'm not sure because I'm not involved in the development,

but I think we stole that idea from Duolingo, although we deal with actual meaningful sentences,

but you have to get people engaged at some level. Steve: So, uh, eventually, of course we want to

be listening to 15 minute podcasts with transcript looking up words, and we're into meaty stuff. But,

but initially to get people engaged, maybe the Instagram or the Duolingo or some of

those things are good for giving people, sort of, instant sense of achievement, instant,

you know, short term gratification that gets them committed to learning languages.

Steve: would you agree? Luca: I agree and disagree at the same

time. Meaning that I honestly think to, to put it in Stephen Krashen's words i, I know we both

appreciate Stephen Krashen, um things like apps, like Duolingo... now I heard that it improved, but

I'm not just talking about Duolingo. Just think about flashcards or things that you do that maybe

create that sense of like, give you that shot of dopamine and you think, okay, I've done that.

Luca: The reality though is that these are not really, um, acquisition rich envi... like it's

not acquisition rich environment. What do I mean by that is that if you read a text, just

to give you an example and you have to ask these terrible questions about what that text means,

right? Or you have to use flashcards. Luca: You can do that if you want to,

but that is really poor in terms of acquiring a language. So, uh, again...

Steve: Fully agree. Fully agree. Luca: So, yeah. The, the problem nowadays is

that we have, everybody's got little time, right? Quote unquote. And if you have one hour a day,

right? Imagine you have a slot of 30 minutes. Luca: If you spend 25 minutes toying with

Duolingo, then you have five minutes to listen to a podcast, then your language is going downhill.

I think we should actually flip, you know, flip the perspective and on its side and say,

okay, well let's do it this way. If Duolingo, uh, can help you, for example,

get engaged a little bit, you can use it maybe in the beginning, um, for five minutes to get

into the session, your language learning session. Luca: But then again, call me old fashioned but I

believe that fundamentally language learning happens first subconsciously and then when

we right understand messages and when we engage in stuff that is interesting and content rich.

And by content rich, I mean, uh, people talking for example, um, in a podcast. That is great.

Luca: That is one of the things I recommend. It's one simple rule. Listen to people engaging

in conversations. This is how I learned Chinese. I was on LingQ and these guys

were talking about super interesting stuff. The earthquake, uh, in, that happened in, uh,

I don't remember ...super interesting stuff. Luca: So I was thinking, yeah, this is what I

want to do. It is like engaging with people talking instead of playing with flashcards

or playing, toying with Duolingo and everything else. So again, if you,

if I agree, people listening to us want to use flashcards because they got this dopamine shot,

they want to Duolingo, that's fine. Luca: But that would be, that should be ten, five

percent of the time that you spend, uh, every day on language learning. This is my take of course,


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Steve: Hi Luca.

Today I have a special guest,  my good friend Luca Lampariello 今日は特別ゲスト、親友のルカ・ランパリエッロがいます。 Dziś mam specjalnego gościa, mojego dobrego przyjaciela Luca Lampariello

and we're gonna talk about new stuff,  ChatGPT, AI, artificial Intelligence, ChatGPT、AI、人工知能、 i porozmawiamy o nowych rzeczach, ChatGPT, sztucznej inteligencji, sztucznej inteligencji,

all the different ways that technology is going  to affect language learning. Luca, good morning, テクノロジーが言語学習に与えるさまざまな影響。ルカさん、おはようございます wszystkie różne sposoby, w jakie technologia wpłynie na naukę języków. Luka, dzień dobry

good afternoon, good evening. Luca: Nice to see you, Steve, こんにちはこんばんは。ルカ: 会えてうれしいよ、スティーブ。 dzień dobry, dobry wieczór. Luca: Miło cię widzieć, Steve,

as always. Um, thanks for the invitation. Steve: Now you being the globe trotter wie immer. Ähm, danke für die Einladung. Steve: Jetzt bist du der Weltenbummler comme toujours. Merci pour l'invitation. Steve : Maintenant, c'est vous qui êtes le globe trotter いつものように。ええと、招待してくれてありがとう。スティーブ:今、あなたは世界を駆け巡っています jak zawsze. Hm, dzięki za zaproszenie. Steve: Teraz jesteś globtroterem her zaman olduğu gibi. Davet için teşekkürler. Steve: Şimdi dünyanın paçası oluyorsun 一如既往。嗯,謝謝邀請。史蒂夫:現在你是環球旅行者了

that you are, where do we find you? Luca: It's just my place in Rome, you know, que vous êtes, où pouvons-nous vous trouver ? Luca : C'est juste chez moi à Rome, vous savez, あなたはどこにいますか?ルカ: ローマにある私の居場所ですよ。 że jesteś, gdzie cię znajdziemy? Luca: Wiesz, to tylko moje miejsce w Rzymie, öylesin, seni nerede bulacağız? Luca: Burası benim Roma'daki yerim, biliyorsun.

it's just a, my simple place in Rome here. Okay.  I'm gonna be here for a little bit and then I've ここはローマにある私のシンプルな場所です。わかった。私は少しここにいるつもりです。 to tylko moje proste miejsce w Rzymie tutaj. Dobra. Pobędę tu trochę, a potem już Burası Roma'daki benim basit yerim. Tamam aşkım. Bir süre burada olacağım ve sonra

gotta be traveling, uh, quite a lot this summer. Steve: Ah-huh . Um, so we hear these Je vais voyager, euh, pas mal cet été. Steve : Ah-huh . Hum, nous entendons donc ces 今年の夏はかなり旅行に行かなきゃ。スティーブ: あはは。ええと、私たちはこれらを聞きます Muszę dużo podróżować tego lata. Steve: Aha. Um, więc słyszymy te Bu yaz epeyce seyahat ediyor olmalıyım. Steve: Ah-hah. Um, öyleyse bunları duyuyoruz 今年夏天一定要旅行,呃,很多次。史蒂夫:啊哈。嗯,所以我們聽到這些

buzzwords ChatGPT, AI, I don't know, web 3.0. Steve: And, and then on the other hand, you hear Schlagworte ChatGPT, KI, ich weiß nicht, Web 3.0. Steve: Und andererseits, hörst du 流行語 ChatGPT、AI、わかりません、web 3.0。スティーブ:そして、一方で、あなたは聞く modne słowa ChatGPT, AI, nie wiem, web 3.0. Steve: I, a potem z drugiej strony, słyszysz moda sözcükler ChatGPT, AI, bilmiyorum, web 3.0. Steve: Ve diğer yandan, duyarsın

these people saying, well, technology is gonna  make it unnecessary to learn languages. Where do これらの人々は、テクノロジーによって言語を学ぶ必要がなくなると言っています。どこで ci ludzie mówią, cóż, technologia sprawi, że nauka języków stanie się zbędna. gdzie bu insanlar, teknolojinin dil öğrenmeyi gereksiz kılacağını söylüyor. nerede

you stand on all this stuff? Have you used any  of it? Or are you using aspects of artificial あなたはこのすべてのものの上に立っていますか?使ったことありますか?それとも、人工的な側面を使用していますか stoisz na tym wszystkim? Czy używałeś któregoś z nich? A może używasz aspektów sztucznych Bütün bu şeylerin üzerinde duruyor musun? Herhangi birini kullandın mı? Yoksa yapay özellikleri mi kullanıyorsunuz?

intelligence in your language learning? Luca: So, um, I'm using as, as you are あなたの言語学習における知性は?ルカ: ええと、私は as を使っています inteligencja w nauce języka? Luca: Więc, um, używam tak jak ty

using like the internet in general. Luca: Um, and more specifically if you ask 一般的にインターネットのように使用します。ルカ: うーん、もっと具体的に言えば korzystania z Internetu w ogóle. Luca: Um, a dokładniej, jeśli pytasz

me specifically about artificial intelligence  tools, I think at the end of the day, we use, 特に人工知能ツールについては mnie konkretnie o narzędziach sztucznej inteligencji, myślę, że pod koniec dnia używamy,

we've been using them for a long time.  Let me give you an example of that, 私たちは長い間それらを使用してきました。その例を挙げましょう。 używamy ich od dawna. Podam przykład tego,

Google Translate or Deep L uh, or all these  systems that where you can, for example, Google 翻訳、Deep L uh、またはこれらすべてのシステムで、たとえば、 Tłumacz Google czy Deep L uh, czy wszystkie te systemy, w których można np.

LingQ, uh, LingQ does that as well. Luca: You just click on a word, behind that, LingQ ええと、LingQ もそれを行います。ルカ: その後ろの単語をクリックするだけで、 LingQ, uh, LingQ też to robi. Luca: Po prostu klikasz na słowo, za tym,

there's algorithms that process the information  and transforms that information from one language Es gibt Algorithmen, die die Informationen verarbeiten und diese Informationen aus einer Sprache umwandeln 情報を処理し、その情報を 1 つの言語から変換するアルゴリズムがあります。 istnieją algorytmy, które przetwarzają informacje i przekształcają je z jednego języka bilgiyi işleyen ve bu bilgiyi tek bir dilden dönüştüren algoritmalar var

to the other. So we've been using that. Apart  from ChatGPT, which is the new thing. But we've もう一方に。だから私たちはそれを使ってきました。新しいものであるChatGPTとは別に。しかし、私たちは do drugiego. Więc korzystaliśmy z tego. Oprócz ChatGPT, który jest nowością. Ale my

been using technology and artificial intelligence  for a long time. Um, now let me tell you this, テクノロジーと人工知能を長い間使用してきました。ええと、今私はあなたにこれを言わせてください、 od dawna korzysta z technologii i sztucznej inteligencji. Um, teraz powiem ci to,

as you yourself say in a lot of videos, um,  this is the golden era uh, of language learning. あなた自身が多くのビデオで言っているように、ええと、これは言語学習の黄金時代です。 jak sam mówisz w wielu filmach, to jest złota era nauki języków.

Nothing... like, never, never in, in, in, uh,  modern history have his language learning become 何も. Nic... nigdy, nigdy we współczesnej historii nie stało się jego nauką języka

so easy to actually do, right. So, uh, absolutely.  So I believe that technology is facilitating the so einfach zu tun, richtig. Also, äh, absolut. Ich glaube also, dass die Technologie dies erleichtert 実際に行うのはとても簡単ですよね。だから、ええと、絶対に。テクノロジーが tak łatwe do zrobienia, prawda. Więc absolutnie. Więc wierzę, że technologia ułatwia

acquisition of any language. Nowadays we have a  wealth of possibilities, but we also have to take Erwerb einer beliebigen Sprache. Heutzutage haben wir eine Fülle von Möglichkeiten, aber wir müssen auch nehmen あらゆる言語の習得。今日、私たちは豊富な可能性を持っていますが、 akwizycja dowolnego języka. W dzisiejszych czasach mamy mnóstwo możliwości, ale musimy też je podejmować

into account that we still learn with our brain. Luca: Whatever happens when it comes to language 私たちはまだ脳で学習していることを考慮してください。ルカ: 言語に関してはどうでもいい

running happens here in our head. So I think one  thing we have to take into account is, uh, you 実行は頭の中で行われます。だから私たちが考慮しなければならないことの1つは、ええと、あなただと思います

know, I think we have to educate ourselves and  also educate the next generation to use the tools wissen, ich denke, wir müssen uns selbst weiterbilden und auch die nächste Generation erziehen, um die Werkzeuge zu benutzen 私たちは自分自身を教育する必要があると思いますが、次の世代にもツールを使用するよう教育する必要があると思います

that we have for our benefit because, uh, the  internet and also the artificial intelligence インターネットと人工知能のおかげで

has pros and cons, like everything. Luca: So it's up to us to understand how すべてのように、長所と短所があります。ルカ: では、どのように理解するかは私たち次第です。

to use it, um, you know, to, to learn languages  better and in general to have a better life. それを使用して、言語をよりよく学び、一般的により良い生活を送るために。

Steve: Absolutely. And, uh, and we'll get  into ChatGPT. I mean, text to speech, uh, スティーブ:もちろんです。そして、ええと、ChatGPT に入ります。つまり、テキスト読み上げ、ええと、

obviously is an application of,  uh, uh, artificial intelligence. 明らかに人工知能の応用です

Um, you know, and I'm on LingQ. If  I click on a word, I can hear it. ええと、LingQ を使っています。単語をクリックすると、それが聞こえます。

Steve: Artificial voice. I wouldn't use  that for, uh, any long period of text. スティーブ:人工の声。長いテキストには使いません。

But if I come across a word in Arabic and  I can't figure out how to pronounce it, しかし、アラビア語の単語に出くわした場合、その発音の仕方がわかりません。

I'll just click on it and I hear it. So text  to speech dictation. Uh, we can use dictation クリックするだけで聞こえます。したがって、テキストから音声へのディクテーションです。ええと、ディクテーションを使用できます

now on our various. Uh, also just to find stuff  on the internet, you know, find content also, 今、私たちのさまざまな。また、インターネットでコンテンツを検索するためだけに、コンテンツも検索します。

like I'll find, I get podcasts in the language  I'm learning, and I'll put it on an automatic 見つけたように、学習している言語でポッドキャストを取得し、自動放送にかけます

transcription website to get a transcript. Steve: It's 90%, it's not ideal, but it's トランスクリプトを取得するためのトランスクリプション Web サイト。 Steve: 90% です。理想的ではありませんが、

better than nothing otherwise. There's just too  many words there that I don't know. Uh, so yeah, そうでなければ何もないよりはましです。知らない単語が多すぎます。そうそう、

there's all kinds of... and when I, and just get  getting back to what you said about this being the あらゆる種類があります...そして私が、これについてあなたが言ったことに戻ると、

golden age 50 years ago, before you were born uh,  I would be scouring the bookstores to find a book, Goldenes Zeitalter vor 50 Jahren, bevor du geboren wurdest, ähm, ich durchkämmte die Buchhandlungen, um ein Buch zu finden, 黄金時代 50年前、あなたが生まれる前、私は書店を探し回って本を探していました。

which maybe had a glossary behind each chapter so  that I could possibly read this thing in Chinese, die vielleicht hinter jedem Kapitel ein Glossar hatte, damit ich das Ding vielleicht auf Chinesisch lesen könnte, 各章の後ろに用語集があり、これを中国語で読むことができたのかもしれません。

and every two weeks or month I'd go back to  the bookstores hoping there was something new. und alle zwei Wochen oder Monate ging ich zurück in die Buchläden und hoffte, es gäbe etwas Neues. そして、2 週間または 1 か月ごとに本屋に戻って、何か新しいものがあることを期待していました。

Steve: This was in Hong Kong, and now you don't  have to do that. You just find whatever you want Steve: これは香港でのことでしたが、今はその必要はありません。欲しいものを見つけるだけ

on the internet. Luca: Agreed.

Luca: Um, you know, that reminds me of myself  when I was trying to learn, um, English back ルカ: あのね、英語を勉強しようとしていた時のことを思い出します。 盧卡:嗯,你知道,這讓我想起了我自己,當我試著學習英語時

in the day, or French, or even Dutch. And  that was like almost 30 years ago. Well, その日、またはフランス語、またはオランダ語でさえ。そして、それはほぼ30年前のようでした。良い、 白天,或法語,甚至荷蘭語。那已經是近 30 年前的事了。出色地,

25 years ago. And it was a different world. Luca: And I also remember 15 years ago when 25年前。そしてそこは異世界だった。ルカ: そして、15 年前のことも覚えています。

I started learning Chinese, even if, um,  I used LingQ, LingQ I have to thank you 私は中国語を学び始めました.えーと、LingQ を使っていましたが、LingQ に感謝しなければなりません. 我開始學中文了,即使,嗯,我用過LingQ,LingQ 我也要謝謝你

for creating LingQ because it's just, I, I  almost learned Chinese exclusively through LingQ を作成するために 創建LingQ 因為它只是,我,我幾乎只通過

that. Now the thing is when, when I was using,  uh, I first used Assimil to get a foundation, Das. Nun, die Sache ist, als ich Assimil benutzte, um eine Grundlage zu bekommen, それか。さて、私が最初にAssimilを使ってファンデーションを手に入れたとき、 那。現在的問題是,當我使用,呃,我第一次使用 Assimil 來打底的時候,

but then I used exclusively, uh, LingQ. Luca: Now, the thing that happened back しかし、私はもっぱら、ええと、LingQ を使用しました。ルカ:さて、昔のこと

then is that I was not using the, I should have,  I was not using, you know, you can click and you 次に、私が使用していなかったということです。使用する必要がありました。使用していませんでした。

can see words. What I was doing is I was also  printing, uh, the scripts and then I had this 言葉が見える。私がしていたのは、スクリプトも印刷していて、それからこれを持っていたということです

small vocabulary and I was trying to painstakingly  understand everything, which was very labor, kleines Vokabular und ich versuchte mühsam alles zu verstehen, was sehr mühsam war, 語彙が少なく、苦労してすべてを理解しようとしていましたが、それは非常に困難でした。 詞彙量很小,我費盡心思去理解所有內容,這非常費力,

a very laborious process nowadays, right? Luca: You can get a, you, you, you can go ein sehr mühsamer Prozess heutzutage, oder? Luca: Du kannst ein, du, du, du kannst gehen 今日では非常に面倒なプロセスですよね?ルカ:あなたは、あなた、あなた、あなたは行くことができます 如今這是一個非常費力的過程,對吧?盧卡:你可以得到一個,你,你,你可以走

on LingQ or you can just download stuff and you  can translate it and you can have an artificial, LingQでダウンロードしたり、翻訳したり、人工的なものを作成したりできます。

uh, you know, voice read it if you want  it in another language. It's amazing what ええと、別の言語で読み上げたい場合は、音声で読んでください。何だかすごいな

we can do nowadays. So... Steve: Absolutely amazing. 今日できること。だから… スティーブ: 本当にすごい。

Luca: It, it's, it's mind, mind  blowing. Uh, uh, I, I think that ルカ:それは、それは、それは、それは、それは心です、吹いています。ええと、ええと、私はそう思います

a lot of people do not still know. Luca: I still believe that. And I, 多くの人はまだ知らない。ルカ: 私はまだそれを信じています。そして私、

I, I, I strongly believe that we as educators, we  have to help people understand how to use these 私、私、私は教育者として、人々がこれらの使い方を理解するのを助けなければならないと強く信じています

tools because again, I've been, for example,  uh, I was in Bergamo I was invited to Bergamo たとえば、私はベルガモにいました ベルガモに招待されました

in northern Italy and I talked to hundreds and  hundreds of students and they have amazing tools. イタリア北部で何百人もの学生と話をしましたが、彼らは素晴らしいツールを持っています。

Luca: But most of the time, unfortunately, 'cause  I saw it firsthand and I talked to some of them, Luca: Aber meistens leider, weil ich es aus erster Hand gesehen und mit einigen von ihnen gesprochen habe, ルカ: でもほとんどの場合、残念なことに、私はそれを直接見て、彼らの何人かと話しました.

most of, of the time, that the time they spend,  not all of them of course, those who wanna learn, ほとんどの場合、彼らが費やす時間はもちろん、すべてではありませんが、学びたいと思っている人たちです。

they will learn, but a lot of them are  sucked in this rabbit hole of Instagram, 彼らは学ぶだろうが、彼らの多くはInstagramのうさぎの穴に吸い込まれている.

of TikTok. If I were, if I could go back,  if I could go back to, uh, to when I was 15, TikTokの。もし私が15歳の頃に戻れるなら

I would learn all the time with these tools. Luca: It would be amazing. So again, 私はこれらのツールを使って常に学びます。ルカ:それは素晴らしいでしょう。もう一度、

there's always a dark side to things.  It's like nowadays we have a lot of tools, 物事には常に暗い面があります。今は道具がたくさんあるので、

a lot of possibilities, a lot of language,  learning materials, for example. But people たとえば、多くの可能性、多くの言語、学習教材などです。しかし、人々

still get stuck in the paradox of choice. What do  I choose? They, they're still not sure. And when 選択のパラドックスにはまってしまいます。何を選ぶ?彼らは、まだ確信が持てません。そしていつ

it comes to tools, they don't know how to, uh,  use them. There's this, uh, word that I recently ツールに関して言えば、彼らは使い方を知りません。私が最近言った言葉があります

stumbled upon in a, in a French, uh, newspaper. It  was Infobesity or something like that. There's too über die ich in einer, in einer französischen, äh, Zeitung gestolpert bin. Es war Infobesity oder so ähnlich. Es gibt auch フランスの新聞で偶然見つけました。それはInfobesityかそのようなものでした。もある

much information out there, you know, so, um, yes.  Um, and going back to what you were saying before, そこには多くの情報があります。で、先ほどの話に戻りますが、

going back to what you were saying before  about using, um, you know, using technology. テクノロジーの使用について、以前あなたが言っていたことに戻ります。

Luca: I've been experimenting with this. There's  so many things you can actually do with, uh, a ルカ: 私はこれを試してきました。実際にできることはたくさんあります。

combination of text, audio, and translation,  and also platforms that can help you, uh, テキスト、音声、翻訳の組み合わせ、そしてあなたを助けるプラットフォーム

decipher the meaning of words. So, um, it's just  mind blowing. It has... the, the way I'm learning die Bedeutung von Wörtern entziffern. Also, ähm, es ist einfach überwältigend. Es hat... die Art, wie ich lerne 言葉の意味を解読する。だから、うーん、それはただの気晴らしです。それは... 私が学んでいる方法です

languages is speeding up because of this. Luca: And I see that the people who use このため、言語は高速化しています。ルカ:

them to their own benefit, they know how  to learn. They're gonna be the winners, 彼ら自身の利益のために、彼らは学ぶ方法を知っています。彼らは勝者になるだろう、

the winners of tomorrow, so to speak. Steve: Right now, uh, I think there's sort of いわば明日の勝者。スティーブ: 今のところ、あー、ちょっとあると思う

two types of learners. The, the people  who aren't necessarily as keen as we zwei Arten von Lernenden. Die, die Leute, die nicht unbedingt so scharf darauf sind wie wir 2 種類の学習者。その、必ずしも私たちほど熱心ではない人々

are. And I think for those people,  some of the things that Duolingo has それは。そういう人のために、Duolingo の機能のいくつかは

introduced a certain level of gamification. Steve: Uh, I know now at LingQ we've got this 一定レベルのゲーミフィケーションを導入しました。スティーブ: ええと、LingQ ではこれがあることを知っています。

sentence review where we have these matching  pair or you have to reassemble a sentence. これらの一致するペアがある場合、または文を再構築する必要がある文のレビュー。

And I think that, I'm not sure because  I'm not involved in the development, 開発に携わっていないのでわかりませんが、

but I think we stole that idea from Duolingo,  although we deal with actual meaningful sentences, しかし、そのアイデアは Duolingo から盗んだと思います。実際に意味のある文を扱っていますが、

but you have to get people engaged at some level. Steve: So, uh, eventually, of course we want to aber man muss die Leute auf einer bestimmten Ebene engagieren. Steve: Also, äh, irgendwann wollen wir das natürlich しかし、ある程度のレベルで人々を関与させる必要があります。スティーブ: ええと、最終的にはもちろん、 但你必須讓人們在某種程度上參與其中。史蒂夫:所以,呃,最終,我們當然想要

be listening to 15 minute podcasts with transcript  looking up words, and we're into meaty stuff. But, 15 分間のポッドキャストを聞いて、トランスクリプトを調べて単語を調べていると、肉付きの良いものに夢中になります。しかし、

but initially to get people engaged, maybe  the Instagram or the Duolingo or some of aber anfangs, um Leute zu engagieren, vielleicht Instagram oder Duolingo oder einige davon しかし、最初は人々を惹きつけるために、Instagram や Duolingo などを使うかもしれません。

those things are good for giving people, sort  of, instant sense of achievement, instant, それらは人々に、一種の、瞬時の達成感を与えるのに適しています。

you know, short term gratification that  gets them committed to learning languages. wissen Sie, kurzfristige Befriedigung, die sie dazu bringt, Sprachen zu lernen. 言語学習に専念させる短期的な満足感です。

Steve: would you agree? Luca: I agree and disagree at the same スティーブ:同意しますか?ルカ: 同意すると同時に同意しない

time. Meaning that I honestly think to, to put  it in Stephen Krashen's words i, I know we both 時間。つまり、スティーブン・クラシェンの言葉を借りれば、私は私たちの両方を知っています。

appreciate Stephen Krashen, um things like apps,  like Duolingo... now I heard that it improved, but Stephen Krashen に感謝します。Duolingo のようなアプリのようなもの...改善されたと聞きましたが、

I'm not just talking about Duolingo. Just think  about flashcards or things that you do that maybe Duolingo について話しているだけではありません。フラッシュカードやあなたがすることについて考えてみてください。

create that sense of like, give you that shot of  dopamine and you think, okay, I've done that. そのような感覚を作り出し、ドーパミンのショットを与えてください。

Luca: The reality though is that these are not  really, um, acquisition rich envi... like it's Luca: Die Realität ist jedoch, dass diese nicht wirklich, ähm, akquisitionsreiche Umgebungen sind, wie sie sind ルカ: でも現実には、これらは実際には、うーん、獲得が豊富な環境ではありません...

not acquisition rich environment. What do I  mean by that is that if you read a text, just nicht akquisitionsreiches Umfeld. Was ich damit meine ist, dass wenn man einen Text liest, einfach 取得リッチな環境ではありません。つまり、テキストを読むと、

to give you an example and you have to ask these  terrible questions about what that text means, 例を挙げると、そのテキストが何を意味するかについて、これらの恐ろしい質問をしなければなりません。

right? Or you have to use flashcards. Luca: You can do that if you want to, 右?または、フラッシュカードを使用する必要があります。ルカ: やろうと思えばできます。

but that is really poor in terms of  acquiring a language. So, uh, again... しかし、それは言語を習得するという点では本当に貧弱です。では、もう一度...

Steve: Fully agree. Fully agree. Luca: So, yeah. The, the problem nowadays is スティーブ: 完全に同意します。完全に同意します。ルカ:そうですね。さて、昨今の問題は

that we have, everybody's got little time, right?  Quote unquote. And if you have one hour a day, みんな時間がないよね?引用しない。そして、1日1時間あれば、 我們有,每個人的時間都很少,對吧?引用取消引用。如果你每天有一小時,

right? Imagine you have a slot of 30 minutes. Luca: If you spend 25 minutes toying with 右? 30 分のスロットがあるとします。ルカ: 25 分間もてあそばせば

Duolingo, then you have five minutes to listen to  a podcast, then your language is going downhill. Duolingo なら、ポッドキャストを 5 分間聞くことができます。その後、言語は下り坂になります。

I think we should actually flip, you know,  flip the perspective and on its side and say, 私たちは実際にひっくり返すべきだと思います、ほら、視点をひっくり返して、

okay, well let's do it this way. If  Duolingo, uh, can help you, for example, よし、こうしよう。 Duolingoがあなたを助けることができるなら、例えば、

get engaged a little bit, you can use it maybe  in the beginning, um, for five minutes to get 少しエンゲージしてください。おそらく最初のうちは、ええと、取得するのに5分間使用できます

into the session, your language learning session. Luca: But then again, call me old fashioned but I セッション、あなたの言語学習セッションに。ルカ: でもまた、私を時代遅れと呼んでもいいけど、私は

believe that fundamentally language learning  happens first subconsciously and then when 基本的に、言語学習は無意識のうちに最初に起こり、その後、

we right understand messages and when we engage  in stuff that is interesting and content rich. 私たちはメッセージを正しく理解し、興味深くコンテンツが豊富なものに取り組むとき.

And by content rich, I mean, uh, people talking  for example, um, in a podcast. That is great. そして、コンテンツが豊富であるということは、たとえば、ポッドキャストで話している人々を意味します。すばらしい。

Luca: That is one of the things I recommend.  It's one simple rule. Listen to people engaging ルカ:それは私がお勧めすることの 1 つです。それは一つの簡単なルールです。人々の魅力に耳を傾ける

in conversations. This is how I learned  Chinese. I was on LingQ and these guys 会話で。これが私が中国語を学んだ方法です。私はLingQとこれらの人たちにいました

were talking about super interesting stuff.  The earthquake, uh, in, that happened in, uh, 超面白いことを話していました。あの地震は

I don't remember ...super interesting stuff. Luca: So I was thinking, yeah, this is what I 私は覚えていません...非常に興味深いものです。ルカ: それで、そう、これが私が

want to do. It is like engaging with people  talking instead of playing with flashcards やってみたいです。フラッシュカードで遊ぶのではなく、話している人と関わるようなものです

or playing, toying with Duolingo and  everything else. So again, if you, ou de jouer, de s'amuser avec Duolingo et tout le reste. Encore une fois, si vous, または、遊んだり、Duolingo で遊んだり、その他すべてをいじったりします。繰り返しますが、もしあなたが、

if I agree, people listening to us want to use  flashcards because they got this dopamine shot, si je suis d'accord, les gens qui nous écoutent veulent utiliser des flashcards parce qu'ils ont reçu cette dose de dopamine, 私が同意するなら、私たちの話を聞いている人は、このドーパミン注射を受けたので、フラッシュカードを使いたがります.

they want to Duolingo, that's fine. Luca: But that would be, that should be ten, five ils veulent faire Duolingo, c'est très bien. Luca : Mais ça serait, ça devrait être dix, cinq 彼らはDuolingoをしたい、それでいい。ルカ: でもそれは、10、5 のはずです

percent of the time that you spend, uh, every day  on language learning. This is my take of course, du temps que vous consacrez, euh, chaque jour à l'apprentissage des langues. C'est mon point de vue, bien sûr, あなたが言語学習に毎日費やす時間の割合.もちろんこれは私の見解ですが、