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Steve's Youtube Videos - General Language Learning, Can We Sound Like a Native?

Can We Sound Like a Native?

Hi there, Steve Kaufmann here. This is my studio, okay? It's where I study, in a way. Although, it's quite portable: Steve Kaufmann Talking About Languages. If you like my video, give me a like. Subscribe to my channel. I'm supposed to say those things, so I do. I usually forget.

Today, I'm going to talk about speaking like a native, sounding like a native, because it's a discussion that showed up sort of in response to my latest video, which I did in Japanese.

I just wanted to point out that this is where I study, so I have my computer here with two screens. Sometimes I study on LingQ using the computer. Mostly, however, I use my iPad because it's more comfortable to sit down and do my linking--LingQing on my iPad. If I go down to the gym here, I take my audio with me on my iPod Touch. Of course, I use my Airpods. I'm not a paid agent for Apple. It's just that I've kind of grown used to their products. I'm also experimenting with trying to improve the quality of my videos. I had a microphone that attached to my iPhone, which I was using to film this earlier. There was some comment that the sound wasn't all that great, so I'm now experimenting with the lapel mic. We'll see how that goes. At any rate, sounding like a native.

I did a video in Japanese and there was some discussion. How well does Steve speak Japanese and so forth? Well, he speaks it okay, but his pronunciation could be better. It doesn't sound like a native. And so on to the subject of sounding like a native.

Obviously, when we study a language we're trying to imitate and the model that we try to imitate inevitably is the native speaker. We want to sound like a native speaker. It might be a native speaker from Scotland or Australia or from Brazil or Portugal or from Quebec or France. But we have a model, which is the native speaker. We imitate the pronunciation. We imitate the use of words. We might imitate some of the gestures. If we're speaking Italian 02:11.8 or whatever, Japanese 02:20.2, in French 02:23.3. You get into sort of imitating the gestures. We are imitating the culture of another language group.

Similarly, I'm trying to improve my golf. If I see Tiger Woods on the television screen I kind of try to watch how he swings because I would like to swing like Tiger Woods. However, the reality is that I can't think of anyone I know that speaks a foreign language -- that is a language they learned after the age of 15 -- that sounds like a native. They can sound very close to a native, they might sound like a native for a short period of time, but something will give them away. That's certainly true.

The language that I speak the best after English is French. If I speak French to someone, especially in short bursts, they might think maybe not French, but maybe Belgian or maybe Swiss or Canadian or maybe something different. Something sounds a bit not quite like the way we speak, although it sounds very fluent. My Japanese is not as good as my French, so I would even be less likely to speak like a native.

I don't aspire to speak like a native because the native uses his or her language. To me that's art. There are certain ways that you pause and there are certain ways that you put words together. Things that the native does effortlessly and that the language learner can try to imitate we'll never totally achieve, in my opinion. No matter how much they focus on pitch in Japanese, which I don't understand quite frankly, or any of these other things where they try to refine their pronunciation to that nth degree to me is not that useful a thing to do. I would rather acquire more words.

For example, if I compare my Japanese to my French, in French I can read literature. I can listen to audio books. I can listen to 04:28.2, I can listen to 04:30.0, whatever I used to listen to and I understand it. I have all those words, in Japanese I don't. My Japanese was built around my business discussions in Japan and if I had the time to spend on improving my Japanese I wouldn't focus on improving my pronunciation to try to achieve that illusive level of sounding like a native. I would work on improving my comprehension, accessing more material so that when I speak I'm able to bring more words and to express myself more accurate. Imitate the many other aspects of how the native uses the language rather than just the accent.

All I'm saying is we want to model ourselves on the native and that's way, again, there's often a dispute about native-speaking teachers versus non-native speaking teachers. Obviously, not every golf instructor is Tiger Woods. In fact, none of them are. We can still have a golf instructor who is not Tiger Woods and yet still consider Tiger Woods to be the model or some other pro, you're favorite pro. As a Canadian, 05:40.3.

Similarly, if we're learning a language we certainly want to avail ourselves of all of the native content that is out there. If I'm having a discussion on Italki, which I use a lot, with a tutor I want a native speaker. I want to engage. I want to connect with that culture. If I'm speaking to an Iranian tutor, whether that person be in Tehran (one of my Iranian tutors was located I think in Poland) or a Turkish tutor from Turkey, they embody the culture. That's the person I want to connect with. In a classroom it's simply not practical to always have native-speaking teachers, but there is certainly a lot that a non-native speaking teacher can provide in terms of help, guidance and encouragement.

The model is the native speaker. However, we are not going to end up sounding like a native. Even Luca, who I think is magnificent in the way he speaks, his French, his Spanish, his Italian, his Mandarin, his Swedish, his Russian, excellent pronunciation. Maybe there are people that think he sounds like a native, but in the only language that I'm able to judge, which is English because that's the only language where I'm a native, he speaks phenomenally well, but he doesn't sound like a native.

I would suggest that people don't make sounding like a native, at least in terms of pronunciation, their goal. Try to have a pleasant pronunciation, a pleasant accent that reflects who you are in your native language, but that you respect the language by using words well and let your pronunciation fall where it may. For example, in English the writing system doesn't match the pronunciation. In Russian if the o sound isn't accentuated it becomes ah.

These are things that you should be able to notice. However, the sum total of all your pronunciation is still not going to sound like a native, in my opinion. I think one should be realistic in that regard. Work on improving your use of words, your comprehension and your vocabulary. Pay attention to pronunciation, but be realistic that you are not going to sound like a native, at least not to a native.

Bye for now.


Can We Sound Like a Native?

Hi there, Steve Kaufmann here. こんにちは、スティーブカウフマンです。 This is my studio, okay? これが私のスタジオです It's where I study, in a way. ある意味で私が勉強する場所です。 Although, it's quite portable: Steve Kaufmann Talking About Languages. しかし、それは非常に移植性があります:言語について話すスティーブカウフマン。 If you like my video, give me a like. Subscribe to my channel. I'm supposed to say those things, so I do. 私はそれらのことを言うことになっているので、私はそうします。 I usually forget. 普段は忘れます。

Today, I'm going to talk about speaking like a native, sounding like a native, because it's a discussion that showed up sort of in response to my latest video, which I did in Japanese. امروز، من قصد دارم در مورد صحبت کردن مثل یک بومی صحبت کنم، مانند یک بومی به نظر برسد، زیرا این بحثی است که به نوعی در پاسخ به آخرین ویدیوی من، که به زبان ژاپنی انجام دادم، نشان داده شد. 今日は、ネイティブのように話すこと、ネイティブのように聞こえることについてお話します。これは、私が日本語で行った最新のビデオに反応して現れたディスカッションだからです。 Hoje, vou falar sobre falar como um nativo, soar como um nativo, porque é uma discussão que apareceu meio que em resposta ao meu último vídeo, que fiz em japonês.

I just wanted to point out that this is where I study, so I have my computer here with two screens. Queria apenas salientar que é aqui que estudo, por isso tenho aqui o meu computador com dois ecrãs. Sometimes I study on LingQ using the computer. Mostly, however, I use my iPad because it's more comfortable to sit down and do my linking--LingQing on my iPad. If I go down to the gym here, I take my audio with me on my iPod Touch. ここのジムに行くと、iPodTouchでオーディオを持っていきます。 Of course, I use my Airpods. もちろん、私はAirpodsを使用しています。 Natuurlijk gebruik ik mijn Airpods. I'm not a paid agent for Apple. Ich bin kein bezahlter Agent für Apple. 私はAppleの有料エージェントではありません。 Não sou um agente pago da Apple. It's just that I've kind of grown used to their products. 私が彼らの製品に慣れてきたというだけです。 I'm also experimenting with trying to improve the quality of my videos. I had a microphone that attached to my iPhone, which I was using to film this earlier. 以前にこれを撮影するために使用していたiPhoneにマイクを接続していました。 There was some comment that the sound wasn't all that great, so I'm now experimenting with the lapel mic. 音があまり良くないというコメントもあったので、ラペルマイクを試しています。 We'll see how that goes. それがどうなるか見ていきます。 At any rate, sounding like a native. とにかく、ネイティブのように聞こえます。

I did a video in Japanese and there was some discussion. 私は日本語でビデオを作りました、そして、いくつかの議論がありました。 How well does Steve speak Japanese and so forth? スティーブは日本語などをどれだけ上手に話しますか? Well, he speaks it okay, but his pronunciation could be better. まあ、彼はそれを大丈夫に話します、しかし彼の発音はもっと良いかもしれません。 It doesn't sound like a native. ネイティブのようには聞こえません。 And so on to the subject of sounding like a native. ネイティブのように聞こえるというテーマについても同様です。

Obviously, when we study a language we're trying to imitate and the model that we try to imitate inevitably is the native speaker. 明らかに、私たちが模倣しようとしている言語を研究するとき、私たちが模倣しようとしているモデルは必然的にネイティブスピーカーです。 We want to sound like a native speaker. It might be a native speaker from Scotland or Australia or from Brazil or Portugal or from Quebec or France. スコットランドまたはオーストラリア、ブラジルまたはポルトガル、またはケベックまたはフランスのネイティブスピーカーである可能性があります。 But we have a model, which is the native speaker. We imitate the pronunciation. We imitate the use of words. 私たちは言葉の使用を模倣します。 We might imitate some of the gestures. If we're speaking Italian 02:11.8 or whatever, Japanese 02:20.2, in French 02:23.3. イタリア語02:11.8か何か、日本語02:20.2、フランス語02:23.3を話している場合。 You get into sort of imitating the gestures. ジェスチャーを模倣するようなものになります。 We are imitating the culture of another language group. 私たちは別の言語グループの文化を模倣しています。

Similarly, I'm trying to improve my golf. If I see Tiger Woods on the television screen I kind of try to watch how he swings because I would like to swing like Tiger Woods. However, the reality is that I can't think of anyone I know that speaks a foreign language -- that is a language they learned after the age of 15 -- that sounds like a native. Sin embargo, la realidad es que no puedo pensar en nadie que conozca que hable un idioma extranjero (es un idioma que aprendieron después de los 15 años) que suene como un nativo. しかし、実際には、外国語(15歳以降に学んだ言語)を母国語のように話す人は誰も思いつかないのです。 They can sound very close to a native, they might sound like a native for a short period of time, but something will give them away. 彼らはネイティブに非常に近いように聞こえるかもしれません、彼らは短期間ネイティブのように聞こえるかもしれませんが、何かが彼らを与えるでしょう。 That's certainly true. それは確かに真実です。

The language that I speak the best after English is French. 私が英語の次に最もよく話す言語はフランス語です。 If I speak French to someone, especially in short bursts, they might think maybe not French, but maybe Belgian or maybe Swiss or Canadian or maybe something different. Si le hablo francés a alguien, especialmente en ráfagas cortas, puede que piensen que quizás no sea francés, sino quizás belga, suizo, canadiense o quizás algo diferente. 私が誰かにフランス語を話すと、特に短いバーストで、彼らはおそらくフランス語ではないと思うかもしれませんが、おそらくベルギー人か、スイス人かカナダ人か、あるいは何か違うものだと思うかもしれません。 Se eu falar francês com alguém, especialmente em curtos períodos, eles podem pensar que talvez não seja francês, mas talvez belga ou talvez suíço ou canadense ou talvez algo diferente. Something sounds a bit not quite like the way we speak, although it sounds very fluent. とても流暢に聞こえますが、私たちの話し方とは少し違うように聞こえます。 My Japanese is not as good as my French, so I would even be less likely to speak like a native. 私の日本語はフランス語ほど上手ではないので、ネイティブのように話す可能性はさらに低くなります。

I don't aspire to speak like a native because the native uses his or her language. ネイティブは自分の言語を使用しているので、ネイティブのように話すことは望んでいません。 To me that's art. 私にとってそれは芸術です。 There are certain ways that you pause and there are certain ways that you put words together. 一時停止する方法と、単語をまとめる方法があります。 Things that the native does effortlessly and that the language learner can try to imitate we'll never totally achieve, in my opinion. 私の意見では、ネイティブが楽に行うこと、そして言語学習者が模倣しようとすることができることは、私たちが完全に達成することは決してありません。 No matter how much they focus on pitch in Japanese, which I don't understand quite frankly, or any of these other things where they try to refine their pronunciation to that nth degree to me is not that useful a thing to do. No importa cuánto se centren en el tono en japonés, que francamente no entiendo, o cualquiera de estas otras cosas en las que intentan refinar su pronunciación hasta ese enésimo grado para mí no es algo tan útil. 率直に理解できない日本語の方言のアクセントにどれだけ集中していても、発音をその程度まで洗練させようとする他のことは、それほど役に立たないことです。 I would rather acquire more words. もっと単語を習得したいです。

For example, if I compare my Japanese to my French, in French I can read literature. たとえば、日本語とフランス語を比較すると、フランス語で文学を読むことができます。 I can listen to audio books. オーディオブックが聴けます。 I can listen to 04:28.2, I can listen to 04:30.0, whatever I used to listen to and I understand it. 私は04:28.2を聞くことができます、私は04:30.0を聞くことができます、私が以前聞いていたものは何でも、私はそれを理解しています。 I have all those words, in Japanese I don't. 私はそれらすべての言葉を持っていますが、日本語では持っていません。 My Japanese was built around my business discussions in Japan and if I had the time to spend on improving my Japanese I wouldn't focus on improving my pronunciation to try to achieve that illusive level of sounding like a native. 私の日本語は日本での商談を中心に作られていました。日本語を上達させるために時間を割くことができれば、ネイティブのような幻想的なレベルの発音を実現するために発音を上達させることに集中しませんでした。 Mijn Japans was opgebouwd rond mijn zakelijke discussies in Japan en als ik de tijd had om mijn Japans te verbeteren, zou ik me niet concentreren op het verbeteren van mijn uitspraak om te proberen dat illusoire niveau van klinken als een native te bereiken. I would work on improving my comprehension, accessing more material so that when I speak I'm able to bring more words and to express myself more accurate. Je travaillerais à améliorer ma compréhension, à accéder à plus de matériel afin que lorsque je parle, je sois capable d'apporter plus de mots et de m'exprimer plus précisément. 理解力を高め、より多くの資料にアクセスして、話すときに、より多くの単語を持ち込み、自分自身をより正確に表現できるように努めます。 Imitate the many other aspects of how the native uses the language rather than just the accent. アクセントだけでなく、ネイティブが言語を使用する方法の他の多くの側面を模倣します。 Имитируйте многие другие аспекты того, как носитель использует язык, а не только акцент.

All I'm saying is we want to model ourselves on the native and that's way, again, there's often a dispute about native-speaking teachers versus non-native speaking teachers. Todo lo que digo es que queremos modelarnos a partir de los nativos y, de nuevo, a menudo hay una disputa sobre los profesores nativos frente a los no nativos. 私が言っているのは、私たちがネイティブをモデルにしたいということだけです。そのように、ネイティブを話す教師と非ネイティブを話す教師についての論争がしばしばあります。 Все, что я говорю, это то, что мы хотим моделировать себя по образцу носителя языка, и поэтому, опять же, часто возникает спор между учителями-носителями языка и учителями, не говорящими на родном языке. Obviously, not every golf instructor is Tiger Woods. 明らかに、すべてのゴルフインストラクターがタイガーウッズであるわけではありません。 Очевидно, что не каждый инструктор по гольфу - Тайгер Вудс. In fact, none of them are. 実際、それらのどれもそうではありません。 We can still have a golf instructor who is not Tiger Woods and yet still consider Tiger Woods to be the model or some other pro, you're favorite pro. タイガー・ウッズではないゴルフインストラクターがいても、タイガー・ウッズをモデルまたは他のプロと見なすことができます。あなたはお気に入りのプロです。 У нас все еще может быть инструктор по гольфу, который не является Тайгером Вудсом, но все же считает Тайгера Вудса моделью или каким-то другим профессионалом, вашим любимым профессионалом. As a Canadian, 05:40.3.

Similarly, if we're learning a language we certainly want to avail ourselves of all of the native content that is out there. Wenn wir eine Sprache lernen, möchten wir auf jeden Fall alle nativen Inhalte nutzen, die es gibt. De même, si nous apprenons une langue, nous souhaitons certainement profiter de tout le contenu natif disponible. 同様に、私たちが言語を学んでいるなら、私たちは確かにそこにあるすべてのネイティブコンテンツを利用したいと思っています。 Da mesma forma, se estamos aprendendo um idioma, certamente queremos nos valer de todo o conteúdo nativo que existe. If I'm having a discussion on Italki, which I use a lot, with a tutor I want a native speaker. 私がよく使うItalkiについて、家庭教師と話し合う場合は、ネイティブスピーカーが必要です。 I want to engage. Ich möchte mich engagieren. 関わりたいです。 I want to connect with that culture. その文化とつながりたいです。 If I'm speaking to an Iranian tutor, whether that person be in Tehran (one of my Iranian tutors was located I think in Poland) or a Turkish tutor from Turkey, they embody the culture. 私がイランの家庭教師と話している場合、その人がテヘラン(私のイランの家庭教師の1人はポーランドにいると思います)にいるのか、トルコのトルコの家庭教師にいるのかにかかわらず、彼らは文化を体現しています。 Если я говорю с иранским репетитором, будь то этот человек в Тегеране (один из моих иранских репетиторов, я думаю, находился в Польше) или турецкий репетитор из Турции, они воплощают культуру. That's the person I want to connect with. それが私がつながりたい人です。 In a classroom it's simply not practical to always have native-speaking teachers, but there is certainly a lot that a non-native speaking teacher can provide in terms of help, guidance and encouragement. Dans une salle de classe, il n'est tout simplement pas pratique d'avoir toujours des enseignants natifs, mais il y a certainement beaucoup qu'un enseignant non natif peut apporter en termes d'aide, d'orientation et d'encouragement. 教室では、常にネイティブスピーカーの教師がいることは実際的ではありませんが、非ネイティブスピーカーの教師が支援、指導、励ましの面で提供できることは確かにたくさんあります。

The model is the native speaker. Das Modell ist der Muttersprachler. モデルはネイティブスピーカーです。 However, we are not going to end up sounding like a native. Sin embargo, no vamos a terminar sonando como un nativo. ただし、ネイティブのように聞こえることはありません。 Even Luca, who I think is magnificent in the way he speaks, his French, his Spanish, his Italian, his Mandarin, his Swedish, his Russian, excellent pronunciation. ルカでさえ、彼の話し方、彼のフランス語、彼のスペイン語、彼のイタリア語、彼の北京語、彼のスウェーデン語、彼のロシア語、優れた発音で素晴らしいと思います。 Даже Лука, который, как мне кажется, великолепен в том, как он говорит: его французский, испанский, итальянский, китайский, шведский, русский, прекрасное произношение. Maybe there are people that think he sounds like a native, but in the only language that I'm able to judge, which is English because that's the only language where I'm a native, he speaks phenomenally well, but he doesn't sound like a native. 彼はネイティブのように聞こえると思う人もいるかもしれませんが、私が判断できる唯一の言語である英語は、私がネイティブである唯一の言語であるため、驚異的に上手に話しますが、そうではありません。ネイティブのように聞こえます。

I would suggest that people don't make sounding like a native, at least in terms of pronunciation, their goal. Sugeriría que la gente no haga que sonar como un nativo, al menos en términos de pronunciación, sea su objetivo. 少なくとも発音に関しては、ネイティブのように聞こえないようにすることをお勧めします。 Try to have a pleasant pronunciation, a pleasant accent that reflects who you are in your native language, but that you respect the language by using words well and let your pronunciation fall where it may. Trate de tener una pronunciación agradable, un acento agradable que refleje quién es usted en su idioma nativo, pero que respete el idioma usando bien las palabras y deje que su pronunciación caiga donde pueda. Essayez d'avoir une prononciation agréable, un accent agréable qui reflète qui vous êtes dans votre langue maternelle, mais que vous respectiez la langue en utilisant bien les mots et en laissant votre prononciation tomber là où elle le peut. 心地よい発音、母国語での自分を反映した心地よいアクセントを持ちながら、言葉を上手に使ってその言語を尊重し、発音を適切な場所に落とすようにしてください。 For example, in English the writing system doesn't match the pronunciation. たとえば、英語では、書記体系が発音と一致しません。 In Russian if the o sound isn't accentuated it becomes ah. En ruso, si el sonido o no se acentúa, se convierte en ah. ロシア語では、oの音が強調されていないと、ああになります。 В русском языке, если звук о не акцентируется, он становится ах.

These are things that you should be able to notice. これらはあなたが気付くことができるはずのものです。 However, the sum total of all your pronunciation is still not going to sound like a native, in my opinion. しかし、私の意見では、すべての発音の合計はまだネイティブのようには聞こえません。 I think one should be realistic in that regard. その点で現実的であるべきだと思います。 Work on improving your use of words, your comprehension and your vocabulary. 単語の使い方、理解力、語彙の向上に取り組みます。 Pay attention to pronunciation, but be realistic that you are not going to sound like a native, at least not to a native. 発音に注意を払いますが、少なくともネイティブにとっては、ネイティブのように聞こえないことを現実的に考えてください。

Bye for now. またね。