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01.Speaking, 61.Urban Plannning

61.Urban Plannning

Todd: So, Shifani, you are an expert in urban planning, and more specifically, in transport. What do you envision in the future, let's say, in fifty years from now?

Shifani: Fifty years from now is quite a long time to project, but future cities would be green cities, cities that are able to sustain themselves. They can produce their own energy. They've got transport mode choices, so people can choose whether they want to walk or cycle or bus. A city that has a very well connected public transport system. So, if you want to get from A to B, you have three main choices - public transport, walking, cycling - each equally good.

Todd: So basically, you see a future of increased urbanization.

Shifani: Increased urbanization, yes, because people are moving to the cities. That's what the figures say. It's what's happening. It's the current trend. And if this continues, the cities need to become more robust. They need to become more resilient. I know these are big words, but what I mean by that is that cities that are able to change with the times. If people are going to become more mobile, then we need a city with good transport system.

But in the future, there's a possibility that people won't be traveling so much, simply because the internet is taking over. Our social space is being invaded by the internet. And so, if people aren't going out so much, we'd want cities with comfortable housings, comfortable buildings, heating, cooling - nicer places to be.

Todd: So, in the future, if there are more cities or more densely populated cities, do you see any changes in public transportation?

Shifani: Well, the theory states that the more density you have, the more feasible public transport becomes. That's absolutely true. So, in saying that cities are going to become more densely populated and urbanized, public transport definitely has a future.

I mean, if you think of a city like Beijing, for example, public transport is available. People travel by it. Why? Because it's available. It has to be available, because there's such a vast number of people. But if you think about a city like Auckland, where I'm from, our public transport system is not very good, because we're not densely populated, and it doesn't make sense to put a bus where there aren't people.

But then, the counter argument is, if you put a bus, people would take it. So, it's the 'chicken and egg.' What comes first? Do you put a bus on a route where there aren't people or where the people aren't taking the bus? Or do you do it the other way around?

Todd: Hm, interesting. And of the types of public transport - buses and mainly rail or subways - which do you see will have a greater impact in the future?

Shifani: I think it all depends on where you are, but trains will definitely be the way of the future. Trains and buses combined, I think, because people like traveling long distances in the shortest amount of time possible. Trains are your solution for that. But for shorter journeys, obviously, connecting different train stations or connecting homes to the train stations, you are going to need buses. One can't really function without the other.

Todd: So, maybe one of your biggest challenges is going to be getting people to give up their 'love affair' with cars?

Shifani: Oh, that's always difficult. Trying to tell a car enthusiast that he should not drive his car ever again will become their worst nightmare. It's not something that's easily achievable. I myself am guilty of that. I used to have a Turbo Nissan Sylvia when I was growing up, in my teenage years. And if someone told me not to drive my car, I think I would be very mad. So yes, it's quite a barrier that I have to go through.

Todd: Well, good luck.

Shifani: Thank you. I'm going to need it.


61.Urban Plannning 61. Planificación urbana 61. planeamento urbano 61.Градостроительство 61.Kentsel Planlama 61.Міське планування 61.城市規劃

Todd: So, Shifani, you are an expert in urban planning, and more specifically, in transport. Тодд: Отже, Шифані, ви є експертом з міського планування, а точніше, з транспорту. What do you envision in the future, let's say, in fifty years from now?

Shifani: Fifty years from now is quite a long time to project, but future cities would be green cities, cities that are able to sustain themselves. Шифані: П'ятдесят років - це досить довгий термін для прогнозування, але міста майбутнього будуть зеленими містами, містами, які здатні підтримувати себе самі. They can produce their own energy. Вони можуть виробляти власну енергію. They've got transport mode choices, so people can choose whether they want to walk or cycle or bus. Têm opções de modos de transporte, para que as pessoas possam escolher se querem ir a pé, de bicicleta ou de autocarro. У них є вибір видів транспорту, тож люди можуть обирати, чи хочуть вони ходити пішки, їздити на велосипеді чи автобусі. A city that has a very well connected public transport system. So, if you want to get from A to B, you have three main choices - public transport, walking, cycling - each equally good.

Todd: So basically, you see a future of increased urbanization.

Shifani: Increased urbanization, yes, because people are moving to the cities. Шифані: Зростання урбанізації, так, тому що люди переїжджають до міст. That's what the figures say. It's what's happening. It's the current trend. And if this continues, the cities need to become more robust. І якщо так триватиме й надалі, міста мають стати міцнішими. They need to become more resilient. Вони повинні стати більш стійкими. I know these are big words, but what I mean by that is that cities that are able to change with the times. Я знаю, що це гучні слова, але я маю на увазі міста, які здатні змінюватися з часом. If people are going to become more mobile, then we need a city with good transport system. Якщо люди стануть більш мобільними, то нам потрібне місто з хорошою транспортною системою.

But in the future, there's a possibility that people won't be traveling so much, simply because the internet is taking over. Mas, no futuro, é possível que as pessoas não viajem tanto, simplesmente porque a Internet está a tomar conta de tudo. Але в майбутньому існує ймовірність того, що люди не будуть подорожувати так багато, просто тому, що на зміну їм прийде інтернет. Our social space is being invaded by the internet. Наш соціальний простір захоплений інтернетом. And so, if people aren't going out so much, we'd want cities with comfortable housings, comfortable buildings, heating, cooling - nicer places to be. Assim, se as pessoas não saem tanto, queremos cidades com casas confortáveis, edifícios confortáveis, aquecimento, refrigeração - lugares mais agradáveis para se estar. Отже, якщо люди не так часто виїжджають на природу, ми хотіли б мати міста з комфортними будинками, зручними будівлями, опаленням, охолодженням - приємнішими місцями для життя.

Todd: So, in the future, if there are more cities or more densely populated cities, do you see any changes in public transportation? Тодд: Отже, в майбутньому, якщо міст стане більше або вони будуть більш густонаселеними, чи бачите ви якісь зміни в громадському транспорті?

Shifani: Well, the theory states that the more density you have, the more feasible public transport becomes. Шифані: Теорія стверджує, що чим більша щільність, тим більш доцільним стає громадський транспорт. That's absolutely true. So, in saying that cities are going to become more densely populated and urbanized, public transport definitely has a future. Отже, якщо говорити про те, що міста стануть більш густонаселеними та урбанізованими, то громадський транспорт, безумовно, має майбутнє.

I mean, if you think of a city like Beijing, for example, public transport is available. Я маю на увазі, якщо ви думаєте про таке місто, як Пекін, наприклад, то громадський транспорт є доступним. People travel by it. Ним їздять люди. Why? Because it's available. It has to be available, because there's such a vast number of people. Це має бути доступно, тому що там така величезна кількість людей. But if you think about a city like Auckland, where I'm from, our public transport system is not very good, because we're not densely populated, and it doesn't make sense to put a bus where there aren't people. Але якщо подумати про такі міста, як Окленд, звідки я родом, то наша система громадського транспорту не дуже хороша, тому що ми не дуже густонаселені, і немає сенсу ставити автобус там, де немає людей.

But then, the counter argument is, if you put a bus, people would take it. Але контраргументом є те, що якби ви поставили автобус, люди б ним їздили. So, it's the 'chicken and egg.' Отже, це "курка і яйце". What comes first? Що стоїть на першому місці? Do you put a bus on a route where there aren't people or where the people aren't taking the bus? Coloca-se um autocarro numa rota onde não há pessoas ou onde as pessoas não apanham o autocarro? Чи ставите ви автобус на маршрут, де немає людей або де люди не користуються автобусом? Or do you do it the other way around? Чи ви робите це навпаки?

Todd: Hm, interesting. And of the types of public transport - buses and mainly rail or subways - which do you see will have a greater impact in the future? E entre os tipos de transportes públicos - autocarros e, sobretudo, comboio ou metro - qual considera que terá mais impacto no futuro? А з видів громадського транспорту - автобусів і, головним чином, залізниці або метро - який, на вашу думку, матиме більший вплив у майбутньому?

Shifani: I think it all depends on where you are, but trains will definitely be the way of the future. Шифані: Я думаю, що все залежить від того, де ви знаходитесь, але поїзди, безумовно, будуть дорогою майбутнього. Trains and buses combined, I think, because people like traveling long distances in the shortest amount of time possible. Потяги та автобуси об'єднали, я думаю, тому, що люди люблять подорожувати на великі відстані за найкоротший проміжок часу. Trains are your solution for that. Поїзди - ваше рішення для цього. But for shorter journeys, obviously, connecting different train stations or connecting homes to the train stations, you are going to need buses. Але для коротших поїздок, очевидно, вам знадобляться автобуси, які з'єднують різні залізничні станції або з'єднують будинки з залізничними станціями. One can't really function without the other. Одне не може функціонувати без іншого.

Todd: So, maybe one of your biggest challenges is going to be getting people to give up their 'love affair' with cars? Todd: Então, talvez um dos vossos maiores desafios seja fazer com que as pessoas desistam do seu "caso de amor" com os automóveis? Тодд: Тож, можливо, одним із ваших найбільших викликів буде змусити людей відмовитися від їхнього "кохання" до автомобілів?

Shifani: Oh, that's always difficult. Шифані: О, це завжди складно. Trying to tell a car enthusiast that he should not drive his car ever again will become their worst nightmare. Спроба сказати автолюбителю, що він більше ніколи не повинен їздити на своїй машині, стане його найгіршим кошмаром. It's not something that's easily achievable. Це не те, чого легко досягти. I myself am guilty of that. Eu próprio sou culpado disso. Я сама в цьому винна. I used to have a Turbo Nissan Sylvia when I was growing up, in my teenage years. Eu tinha um Nissan Sylvia Turbo quando estava a crescer, na minha adolescência. У підлітковому віці у мене був турбований Nissan Sylvia, коли я ріс, у підлітковому віці. And if someone told me not to drive my car, I think I would be very mad. І якби хтось заборонив мені їздити на своїй машині, думаю, я б дуже розлютився. So yes, it's quite a barrier that I have to go through. Тож так, це досить серйозний бар'єр, через який мені доводиться проходити.

Todd: Well, good luck. Що ж, удачі.

Shifani: Thank you. I'm going to need it. Вона мені знадобиться.