Ninety-four: English – Is it Logical? Vierundneunzig: Englisch - ist das logisch? Noventa y cuatro: Inglés - ¿Es lógico? Quatre-vingt-quatorze : Anglais - Est-ce logique ? Novantaquattro: Inglese - È logico? 94歳英語-それは論理的か？ Dziewięćdziesiąty czwarty: Angielski - czy to logiczne? Noventa e quatro: Inglês - É lógico? Девяносто четвертый: Английский язык - логично ли это? Nittiofyra: Engelska - Är det logiskt? Doksan dört: İngilizce - Mantıklı mı? 九十四：英语——合乎逻辑吗？

Steve: Hi Jill Jill: Hi Steve. Steve: You know one thing I was thinking about Jill, English. Jill hakkında düşündüğüm bir şey var, İngilizce. You know, I don’t know if English is easier or more difficult than other languages, but what do you think makes English difficult? İngilizce diğer dillerden daha mı kolay yoksa daha mı zor bilmiyorum ama sizce İngilizceyi zorlaştıran nedir? Jill: I think one of the main issues is, of course, you’ve got to learn vocabulary like in any language, but I think English is quite illogical. Jill: Bence temel sorunlardan biri, elbette her dilde olduğu gibi kelime öğrenmek zorunda olmanız, ancak bence İngilizce oldukça mantıksız. Steve: Illogical? Jill: Illogical. Jill: Mantıksız. Steve: Yes. Jill: There are a number of words that sound the same, but are spelt different, mean something completely different and even native speakers often have trouble choosing the correct spelling. Jill: Kulağa aynı gelen ancak yazılışları farklı olan, tamamen farklı bir anlama gelen ve anadili İngilizce olan kişilerin bile doğru yazımı seçmekte zorlandığı çok sayıda kelime vardır. So spelling is difficult which, in turn, causes problems with pronunciation because there are silent letters; you know, thought is t-h-o-u-g-h-t. Así que la ortografía es difícil, lo que, a su vez, causa problemas con la pronunciación porque hay letras mudas; ya sabes, el pensamiento es t-h-o-u-g-h-t. Some words that have an “e” at the end will create a certain sound, but another word with an “e” at the end won’t create that same sound. Sonunda "e" harfi olan bazı sözcükler belirli bir ses çıkarır, ancak sonunda "e" harfi olan başka bir sözcük aynı sesi çıkarmaz. I was with my nieces this weekend and they are 6 and 8 years old, so learning to read and spell. Bu hafta sonu yeğenlerimle birlikteydim ve onlar 6 ve 8 yaşındalar, yani okumayı ve hecelemeyi öğreniyorlar.

The 8 year old is learning to write and spell, so she’s really quite into it. 8 yaşındaki çocuğum yazmayı ve hecelemeyi öğreniyor, bu yüzden gerçekten çok ilgili. She likes school and so she wanted to spell a lot of different words and she would say oh, how do you spell this and I would always say you can do it, sound it out and so she would try every time. Le gusta el colegio y quería deletrear un montón de palabras diferentes y me preguntaba cómo se deletreaba esto y yo siempre le decía que podía hacerlo, que lo sonara y lo intentaba cada vez. Most times she would get the word right or pretty close anyway, but then a lot of times there was just something little and sounding it out she was right it should have been spelt that way, but because it’s English there are all these different weird things that happen that cause a lot of problems. There are a lot of native speakers who cannot spell. Steve: I know, I know. Now what’s the solution there? Şimdi buradaki çözüm nedir? I mean if it’s difficult for native speakers it must be even more difficult for people coming from another language where the letters already have a value for them in that language and most languages are more logical, as you put it, in terms of the writing system. Quiero decir que si es difícil para los hablantes nativos debe ser aún más difícil para las personas que vienen de otro idioma donde las letras ya tienen un valor para ellos en ese idioma y la mayoría de los idiomas son más lógicos, como usted dice, en términos del sistema de escritura. What are some of the words that your nieces had trouble with? Yeğenlerinizin zorlandığı kelimelerden bazıları nelerdir? Jill: I’m just trying to think now. Jill: Şimdi düşünmeye çalışıyorum. She was writing a Christmas song, so there was… Steve: Sleigh bells, you know, “sleigh” for example. Steve: Campanas de trineo, ya sabes, "trineo" por ejemplo. Steve: Kızak çanları, bilirsin, "kızak" mesela. Jill: And “bow” and the word “friend” was in there. Jill: Y "arco" y la palabra "amigo" estaba allí. Jill: Ve "yay" ve "arkadaş" kelimesi de oradaydı. Steve: I know. You know, I find that I even have to think sometimes and I remember “i before e except after c.” A veces incluso tengo que pensar y me acuerdo de "i antes de e excepto después de c". Biliyor musunuz, bazen düşünmek zorunda kalıyorum ve "e'den önce i, c'den sonra hariç" diye hatırlıyorum. Jill: You know, I do that all the time, I have to say and, of course, then there are many exceptions to that like “their” t-h-e-i-r, “neighbor”. Jill: Usted sabe, yo hago eso todo el tiempo, tengo que decir y, por supuesto, luego hay muchas excepciones a eso como "su" t-h-e-i-r, "vecino". Jill: Biliyor musun, bunu her zaman yapıyorum, söylemeliyim ve tabii ki, "onların" t-h-e-i-r, "komşu" gibi birçok istisna var. There are many exceptions, but generally the rule is “i before e except after the letter c”, except after “c”. Birçok istisna vardır, ancak genel olarak kural "c" harfinden sonra hariç "e" harfinden önce i" şeklindedir. Steve: Right. Jill: But that’s the other problem with English and maybe it’s with all languages that there are so many exceptions. Jill: Ancak İngilizce ile ilgili diğer bir sorun da bu ve belki de tüm dillerde bu kadar çok istisna olması. There is a rule, but then there are so many exceptions to the rule and so people might learn a rule and they apply it every time in all situations and that’s just not right. Steve: Right and there are so many of them to learn. Jill: Yeah. Steve: But I wonder what other things about English make it more difficult. You hear people talking about phrasal verbs that in other languages you might have one verb whereas in English there are a lot of “go up”, “go in”, “go out”, you know, “get out”. Like “What am I getting out of this?” We had our thing on “get”, right? Jill: Right. Steve: So phrasal verbs might be something. Some people say that the absence of a more structured grammar in English in a way is easier, but in a way is more difficult because then it becomes more idiomatic. Jill: Yeah, you have to learn a lot of these. I think with phrasal verbs or phrases in general, so many of them if you pick apart the phrase, if you take each individual word, it doesn’t make sense. Steve: No. Jill: The phrase does not mean what those individual words mean together, so you have to really learn it as a phrase. Steve: You have to learn the phrases, yeah. Jill: Exactly. Steve: Now what was your experience when you studied French, which is a little more logical? Although, there are things that aren’t logical in French, but I think it’s certainly more structured grammatically than English. What did you find difficult there? Jill: I think with French, probably with most languages, grammar was an issue with me, still is a big issue. Steve: Meaning what verb or what aspect? Jill: The verb tenses; many different verb tenses and all the different endings and the different auxiliary verbs and all these different… Steve: And then getting in the conditional and the subjunctive. Steve: Y luego entrando en el condicional y el subjuntivo. Jill: Yeah, when you use the subjunctive it’s only with certain words like “wish” and those sorts of thoughts that you would use the subjunctive, so I think that definitely I have a problem with verb tenses. Steve: Yeah, which probably you would not get over, unless you were in a situation where you were using it all the time because you could sort of really study it to death and master it for an exam, but then if you didn’t use the language for three months it would be gone. Steve: Sí, lo que probablemente no superarías, a menos que estuvieras en una situación en la que lo usaras todo el tiempo, porque podrías estudiarlo hasta la saciedad y dominarlo para un examen, pero luego, si no usaras el idioma durante tres meses, desaparecería. Steve : Ouais, ce que vous ne surmonteriez probablement pas, à moins que vous ne soyez dans une situation où vous l'utilisiez tout le temps parce que vous pourriez en quelque sorte vraiment l'étudier jusqu'à la mort et le maîtriser pour un examen, mais si vous ne l'aviez pas fait utiliser la langue pendant trois mois, ce serait parti. Steve: Evet, sürekli kullandığınız bir durumda değilseniz muhtemelen üstesinden gelemezsiniz çünkü gerçekten ölesiye çalışabilir ve bir sınav için ustalaşabilirsiniz, ancak sonra dili üç ay boyunca kullanmazsanız yok olur. You have to develop that habit. Jill: All over, yeah, it’s true and Spanish was the same. Spanish is similar to French as far as verb tenses, but Spanish is easier I think than French. The spelling is very easy and that’s one thing about Spanish. Steve: Absolutely. You know, I think Spanish has tremendous potential. I mean it already is an international language, but I think it will grow as an international language, first of all, because the spelling is so true, unlike French even. French is better than English, but still in French there is funny spelling and Spanish, you know, is popular. Yeah, people know that there are many hundreds of millions of Spanish speakers, but I think Spanish is connected with fun in a way, don’t you think so? Sí, la gente sabe que hay muchos cientos de millones de hispanohablantes, pero creo que el español está relacionado con la diversión en cierto modo, ¿no crees? Ouais, les gens savent qu'il y a plusieurs centaines de millions d'hispanophones, mais je pense que l'espagnol est lié au plaisir d'une certaine manière, vous ne pensez pas ? Jill: Yeah, yeah, I think so. Steve: We think of the sunny climate, we think of Latin music and fun. Jill: Certain words like “ola” and “un d’les”! Jill : Certains mots comme « ola » et « un d'les » ! Steve: Un d’les, ola! And I think the thought; if people believe that it is easier that helps them because if you’ve got this great obstacle and you say gees, I can’t learn that language it’s too difficult, I can never do it that weighs you down. Y creo que el pensamiento; si la gente cree que es más fácil eso les ayuda porque si tienes este gran obstáculo y dices caramba, no puedo aprender ese idioma es demasiado difícil, nunca podré hacerlo eso te pesa. Et je pense que la pensée; si les gens croient que c'est plus facile, ça les aide parce que si vous avez ce grand obstacle et que vous dites bon sang, je ne peux pas apprendre cette langue, c'est trop difficile, je ne peux jamais le faire qui vous pèse. So people think Spanish is relatively easy to learn, which I think it is and it’s fun. You know, if you’re living in Europe you can go to Spain, if you’re living in North America you can go to Mexico or you can go to South America. Jill: Central America. Steve: Central America as you did; visiting in Central America and, of course, there are more and more Spanish speakers in the United States or even here in Canada. Jill: Yeah and Spanish is just a lovely language too. It sounds pretty, it’s a nice language to learn and many people do speak it. Suena bonito, es un idioma agradable de aprender y mucha gente lo habla. Steve: Although I must say that I like the sound of other languages too. I like the sound of French; I like the sound of Italian. Jill: Well yeah, all the romance languages are for sure my favorite sounding. Steve: But, you know, I like hearing any language well spoken. Mandarin or Japanese or even German, which isn’t really all that nice sounding a language, or Dutch, you know, even less so. Mandarín o japonés, o incluso alemán, que no es un idioma que suene tan bien, o neerlandés, ya sabes, aún menos. I don’t know any Dutch, but if you know the language when you hear someone express themselves very well in the language it’s always a pleasure; it’s always a pleasure. Yeah, for singing, I think I’d rather hear someone sing in Italian than in German or Dutch. Jill: I agree. Steve: You know, for example, yeah. Jill: What did you find most difficult about some of the languages you learned? Steve: Okay, if I take Chinese…well, let’s start with French, which was the first one that I sort of tried to master; I think it was the pronunciation. I worked quite hard on my French pronunciation and, obviously, these tenses and so forth and so on. Mainly, I ended up going to France, so I had to use it a lot and gradually I just got better at it. Principalmente, acabé yendo a Francia, así que tuve que utilizarlo mucho y poco a poco se me fue dando mejor. With Chinese, of course, the big obstacle is the characters. Jill: Of course. Steve: You’ve got to learn those characters. That’s a lot of work; it’s just a lot of work. It’s not difficult in the sense of trying to understand nuclear physics or something; there is no comprehension issue. You know, you don’t have to be smart to do it you just have to put in the time and it’s a lot of drudgery; a lot of drudgery. No hace falta ser listo para hacerlo, sólo hay que dedicarle tiempo, y es un trabajo pesado, muy pesado. People say oh yeah, but there are radicals, you know, there are components of the characters that repeat but, you know, it doesn’t help you a lot because a character has 10-12-15 different strokes and you have to remember the individual stroke order. La gente dice: "Ah, sí, pero hay radicales, hay componentes de los caracteres que se repiten", pero eso no ayuda mucho, porque un carácter tiene entre 10 y 15 trazos diferentes y hay que recordar el orden de cada trazo. I had to learn 4,000 of these each one with 10-12-15 strokes; it’s a lot of work. Jill: See, it’s just so daunting that I can’t even imagine undertaking such a task. Jill: Mira, es tan desalentador que ni siquiera puedo imaginar emprender tal tarea. Steve: You’ve got to have a system and, you know, I took eight months. Mark, when he started with Japanese, he went at studying the characters. He worked very hard at it with flashcards and stuff and he learned 1,800 characters. I mean you can do it, but it takes a lot of dedication. Jill: You have to want to do it. Steve: You have to want to do it and, you know, it’s not as much fun as listening and reading, but it’s not uninteresting because I kind of like the characters now that I’ve… Steve: Tienes que querer hacerlo y, ya sabes, no es tan divertido como escuchar y leer, pero no carece de interés porque me gustan los personajes ahora que he... Jill: Well I think they’re really beautiful. Steve: They’re beautiful and there are some things and it’s history. It’s a writing system that, in a way, is primitive. I mean you’re representing the meaning rather than the sound and, obviously, if you can just represent the sound it’s more efficient. But I like them, but it’s a lot of work, so that was a problem. And then the tones are a problem, but the structure of the language, the way they use their words, is not difficult at all. There is no difficult grammar. There are some patterns that are different from English, but a lot of the word order is the same as English. There are some initial strange things like when they say “Are you going?” they say “You go not go?” That’s how they say it “You go not go?” So when you first encounter “You go not go” it’s a little difficult. But after a while all these strange structures, as with any language, start to become natural, so that was the biggest problem there. With Japanese the different levels of politeness is a problem and also the fact that they use effectively three writing systems, which I think is so inefficient, but that’s their language; it’s not for us to criticize the language. Con el japonés, los diferentes niveles de cortesía son un problema, y también el hecho de que utilicen efectivamente tres sistemas de escritura, lo que me parece muy poco eficaz, pero así es su lengua; no nos corresponde a nosotros criticarla. Avec le japonais, les différents niveaux de politesse sont un problème et aussi le fait qu'ils utilisent effectivement trois systèmes d'écriture, ce qui, je pense, est tellement inefficace, mais c'est leur langue ; ce n'est pas à nous de critiquer la langue.

It’s like English, objectively, the spelling system is just ridiculous, but that’s how it has evolved, so that’s what we have to learn. Jill: That’s right. Steve: And I agree with you on French. Yeah, as we said, the grammar in German as well and I just gave up trying to remember all those… Sí, como hemos dicho, la gramática en alemán también y me di por vencido tratando de recordar todos los... Jill: “Der”, “die” and “das”. Steve: “Der”, “die”, “das”; all the endings I couldn’t remember, but after a while you just use it, you know, yeah, but those are some of the difficulties. Steve : « Der », « die », « das » ; toutes les fins dont je ne me souvenais pas, mais après un certain temps, vous l'utilisez, vous savez, oui, mais ce sont certaines des difficultés. Korean is quite similar to Japanese.

One last thing on those East Asian languages, once you’ve put the effort into learning characters and learning the Chinese vocabulary that will be 50 percent of the vocabulary in Japanese and Korean, so that’s a big help there too. So your nieces are…but it’s good that they like learning that’s the main thing.

Jill: Well the 8 year old does the 6 year old refuses. Steve: Refuses? Jill: She refuses at school and at home to learn to read to learn to write; she just wants no part of it. Jill: Ella se niega en la escuela y en casa para aprender a leer para aprender a escribir, ella simplemente no quiere ser parte de ella. Steve: And what are you going to do? Jill: Well, it’s not that she can’t do it, it’s just she doesn’t want to be told she has to do it, so they’re struggling with, basically, using bribery. Jill : Eh bien, ce n'est pas qu'elle ne peut pas le faire, c'est juste qu'elle ne veut pas qu'on lui dise qu'elle doit le faire, alors ils luttent essentiellement contre la corruption. You can only play with your Webkins on the computer after you’ve done half an hour of words or, you know, you can’t do this until you do this. Vous ne pouvez jouer avec vos Webkins sur l'ordinateur qu'après avoir fait une demi-heure de mots ou, vous savez, vous ne pouvez pas le faire tant que vous n'avez pas fait cela. Steve: That’s not bribery that’s coercion. Eso no es soborno, es coacción. Steve : Ce n'est pas de la corruption, c'est de la coercition. Jill: Well, yeah, whatever works. Steve: You’re taking away you’re not giving anything. Steve: Estás quitando no estás dando nada. Steve : Vous enlevez, vous ne donnez rien. Jill: That’s true. That’s right, but the teacher too even said…because most kids even if they won’t do something for their parents they will do it at least for a teacher or for somebody else, but even the teacher asked them, how do you deal with this? C'est vrai, mais l'enseignant a même dit… parce que la plupart des enfants, même s'ils ne font pas quelque chose pour leurs parents, ils le feront au moins pour un enseignant ou pour quelqu'un d'autre, mais même l'enseignant leur a demandé, comment gérez-vous cette? Doğru, ama öğretmen de söyledi... çünkü çoğu çocuk ebeveynleri için bir şey yapmasalar bile en azından bir öğretmen ya da başka biri için yaparlar, ama öğretmen bile onlara sordu, bununla nasıl başa çıkıyorsunuz? What do you do? She’s by no means a dumb child. No es en absoluto una niña tonta. Ce n'est en aucun cas une enfant stupide. She’s very intelligent, very capable, she’s just being stubborn. Es muy inteligente, muy capaz, sólo está siendo testaruda. She just, for some reason, has it in her mind that she’s not going to be told she has to do this. Elle a juste, pour une raison quelconque, dans son esprit qu'on ne va pas lui dire qu'elle doit faire ça. Steve: Now is she like that in other things? Jill: I guess she’s a little bit stubborn. She’s definitely got her own mind, definitely, but she’s just going to… You know with her, actually, it’s mostly laziness and we all joke about it. Ella tiene su propia mente, definitivamente, pero ella sólo va a ... Ya sabes con ella, en realidad, es sobre todo la pereza y todos bromeamos sobre ello. Anything that requires effort even if it’s art, which she loves, as soon as she’s got to put in a little more effort she’s done with her picture or she’s done with whatever she’s doing. Cualquier cosa que requiera esfuerzo, aunque sea arte, que le encanta, en cuanto tiene que esforzarse un poco más ya ha terminado con su dibujo o ha terminado con lo que sea que esté haciendo. Tout ce qui demande des efforts même si c'est l'art qu'elle aime, dès qu'il faut faire un peu plus d'effort elle en a fini avec sa photo ou elle en a fini avec ce qu'elle fait. She’ll sit on the couch and watch shows. Se sentará en el sofá a ver series. Elle va s'asseoir sur le canapé et regarder des émissions. She’s just lazy and that’s basically what it comes down to, but she’ll learn. Ella es simplemente perezosa y eso es básicamente a lo que se reduce, pero aprenderá. Elle est juste paresseuse et c'est essentiellement de cela qu'il s'agit, mais elle apprendra. O sadece tembel ve temelde bunun sonucu bu, ama öğrenecek. Jill: Now how were you as a child? Were you lazy too or were you very diligent, hard working? Étiez-vous aussi paresseux ou étiez-vous très diligent, travailleur ? Steve: I guess I was a little bit of both. I think I always wanted to do well at school. I cared about my marks and my grades, so I did always do well, but I can’t say I put in a lot of effort with homework. Me importaban mis notas y mis calificaciones, así que siempre lo hacía bien, pero no puedo decir que me esforzara mucho con los deberes. Je me souciais de mes notes et de mes notes, donc j'ai toujours bien réussi, mais je ne peux pas dire que j'ai fait beaucoup d'efforts avec les devoirs. My mom wasn’t the type of parent who said okay, do you have homework? Ma mère n'était pas le genre de parent qui disait d'accord, tu as des devoirs ? Let’s get it out, do it, check it; never ever did she do that it was kind of just left to us. Saquémoslo, hagámoslo, comprobémoslo; ella nunca lo hizo, nos lo dejó a nosotros. Sortons-le, faisons-le, vérifions-le; elle ne l'a jamais fait, c'était en quelque sorte laissé à nous. If we did it we did it and if we didn’t we didn’t and my brother and I basically never did, but we always managed. Si nous l'avons fait, nous l'avons fait et si nous ne l'avons pas fait, nous ne l'avons pas fait et mon frère et moi ne l'avons jamais fait, mais nous avons toujours réussi. You know, the 15 minutes before school started; we always got there early. Vous savez, les 15 minutes avant la rentrée ; nous sommes toujours arrivés tôt. We’d cram in our homework and we’d get it done somehow, so I guess I was lazy in that sense. Atiborrábamos los deberes y los hacíamos de alguna manera, así que supongo que era perezosa en ese sentido. Nous ferions nos devoirs et nous les ferions d'une manière ou d'une autre, donc je suppose que j'étais paresseux dans ce sens. Steve: So, you mean maybe your niece has some of these genes? Jill: Well, no, but she’s Chris' niece actually. Steve: Oh, she’s Chris' niece, okay, alright. Jill: So, not related to me. Steve: Okay, alright. So yeah, we’ve kind of covered on some of the things that make English difficult or other languages difficult. Alors oui, nous avons en quelque sorte couvert certaines des choses qui rendent l'anglais difficile ou d'autres langues difficiles. But, I guess the example of your nieces the older one is keen and likes it, enjoys it and so she’s going to overcome any difficulties and the younger one, hopefully, will also learn. Mais, je suppose que l'exemple de vos nièces l'aînée est enthousiaste et l'aime, l'apprécie et donc elle va surmonter toutes les difficultés et la plus jeune, espérons-le, apprendra aussi. Jill: She’ll catch up. Jill: Ella se pondrá al día. Jill : Elle se rattrapera. I think the important thing with English -- well, for me anyway -- as far as spelling goes and vocabulary growth, is just to read a lot. Creo que lo importante con el inglés, bueno, al menos para mí, en lo que respecta a la ortografía y el aumento del vocabulario, es leer mucho. Je pense que la chose la plus importante avec l'anglais - enfin, pour moi en tout cas - en ce qui concerne l'orthographe et la croissance du vocabulaire, c'est juste de lire beaucoup. Native speakers need to read a lot. Steve: Oh, so true. Jill: If you’ve seen a word spelled correctly several times you will learn how to spell that word. Steve: And, I might add, so read a lot for sure and the other thing, of course, that we hope that the LingQ System does for people is make them better at noticing. Steve : Et, je pourrais ajouter, alors lisez beaucoup à coup sûr et l'autre chose, bien sûr, que nous espérons que le système LingQ fait pour les gens, c'est qu'ils les rendent meilleurs pour remarquer. You can pass the word “perceive”, “conceive”, whatever and you never pay much attention to it and then you spell it wrong one day and so now you’ve spelt it wrong and then thereafter you might start noticing “receive”, “perceive”, “conceive” every time you see the word. Vous pouvez passer le mot "percevoir", "concevoir", peu importe et vous n'y prêtez jamais beaucoup d'attention, puis vous l'épelez mal un jour et maintenant vous l'avez mal orthographié et ensuite vous pourriez commencer à remarquer "recevoir", "percevoir", "concevoir" chaque fois que vous voyez le mot. Jill: Right. Steve: That’s why we ask people to save words and when they have something corrected to really go and look at the things that they got wrong. Steve : C'est pourquoi nous demandons aux gens d'enregistrer des mots et quand ils ont quelque chose de corrigé, d'aller vraiment regarder les choses qu'ils se sont trompées. If they start noticing those words or those kinds of structures…because we can see a lot of things and not see, you know what I mean? Jill: Exactly. Steve: You have to become more observant of what goes on. Okay, thank you very much Jill. Jill: Thank you. Steve: Bye, bye.