This is A.J. Hoge’s text and recording of an excerpt from ALG’s Dr. J. Marvin Brown’s article entitled ‘Learning Languages Like Children’
The original and unabridged article can be found here
Your are back! Thank you for yet another interesting contribution. The extended listening and not thinking about the language period may be a bit of a challenge, I do find myself thinking quite often about my target languages, even if I don’t attempt to speak them aloud.
I still have my doubts about such methods. I have been listening to stuff in the passive way without opening my mouth for 6 years. Whenever I try to speak with a native speaker, I can understand them 90% most of the time but I am unable to say simple things spontaneously. There is no sync between my mouth and brain. I feel tongue-tied and sometimes I speak in mumbled-jumbled way and make no sense. Now I am back to my studies. Looking forwardsto implementing new and varied methods.
Nowadays I am trying to implement listening-reading method to long novels. It is like following both activities at the same time.
I listened to many of A.J.Hoge’s podcasts. His pronunciation is great for any learner, the stories are funny, a bit stupid and powerful. It has brought me something, but I don’t believe I’ll get fluency only listening to his artificial stories. Conversations with a tutor bring me more.
I wonder why A.J. pronounces “eKspetially”. And he does it so exaggerately. Maybe he poke fun on us the learners?
“pokes fun at us” I mean
Boy, does he sound like a televangelist.
(shudders)
Look at his last videos. Real Christian missionary.
In the languages that I only started to learn this year, i.e. Spanish and Japanese, I am now experimenting with a long silent period. I will wait for one or perhaps up to two years before attempting to say anything. I am not entirely sure how strong the scientific basis of the “silent period” theory is. Nevertheless, from my own language learning experience, and also looking at the people around me, it does seem very plausible that speaking too early would do you more harm than good. The big question is when I want to start talking, will the words come naturally? Or as asadkhan said above, there is a disconnect between the brain and the mouth? I guess I just have to find out.
In the languages that I only started to learn this year, i.e. Spanish and Japanese, I am now experimenting with a long silent period. I will wait for one or perhaps up to two years before attempting to say anything. I am not entirely sure how strong the scientific basis of the “silent period” theory is. Nevertheless, from my own language learning experience, and also looking at the people around me, it does seem very plausible that speaking too early would do you more harm than good. The big question is when I want to start talking, will the words come naturally? Or as asadkhan said above, there is a disconnect between the brain and the mouth? I guess I just have to find out.
You cannot just expect to just open your mouth and start talking. You need to work at talking when you decide to start talking. You can also start in short spurts and work up to more and more talking. You will be drawing on considerable resources of vocabulary and familiarity and will, I think, see rapid progress. But still need to talk, in order to speak well.
I find that I am better able to notice the language, to focus on different aspects of the language, when I listen and read, better than when I speak. Speaking enables me to notice my gaps. I go over my discussion report carefully since I still remember what I said in the discussion. At this point I do not need a lot of it. When I have a natural opportunity to use the language more, i.e. if I visit Russia or Brazil or Portugal, I will use it more. no need to force things now. I would rather build up my potential then try to perfect my speaking. I cannot speak all day long on Skype!
But I can listen and read as much as I want. It is harder to arrange the speaking opportunities. I tend to go 70% listening, 15% reading, 5-10% vocab and grammar review, and a little talking. I should write more. This just fits with the time that I have available.
@ asadkhan
You may have been listening passively for 6 years, but HOW INTENSIVELY? (how many hours per day EVERY DAY)? Students in the ALG program, on average, go to class 3 hours per day every day for a year before they start speaking - that is, they listen very intensively over a relatively short period of time.
I’ve found that after only 60 hours of listening to Mandarin (an hour a day every day for 2 months), words and phrases are starting to just ‘pop’ into my head without me even thinking about them. I’m certain that this type of ‘thinking’ is not detrimental, as the words and phrases just ‘rise to the surface’ and I’m not yet trying to say them out loud. The ‘thinking’ the article refers to is trying to ‘come up with’ language (whether it’s grammar conjugations or vocabulary) instead of just drawing on the vocabulary base (which INCLUDES grammar) you’ve acquired from listening.
@ Cantotango
I do believe that words and phrases will come naturally if you listen INTENSIVELY and wait long enough to start speaking. Just ask Steve about his experience with Russian, which I’ve heard native speakers say he speaks very well - check out his video and the comments here
Notice that, although he has to think about what he wants to say, the words and phrases seem to ‘flow out’ quite readily, an obvious sign that he did lots of natural listening to the language before starting to speak to any great extent. And, although he may make some mistakes with grammar, remember the native speaker children ALSO make grammar mistakes (‘I goed’ instead of ‘I went’ etc. - confer Krashen’s Principles and Practice in SLA) and yet they still come out speaking fluently.
I think that, once you reach a certain level of understanding (ALG posits about 80%) after CONSISTENT and INTENSIVE listening, you’ve already established a solid pronunciation and grammar base, at which point it’s just a matter of activating your passive vocabulary (which, once again, INCLUDES grammar like conjugations and endings etc.) while continuing to augment it, which is what Steve says he started doing after about two years of learning Russian.
Finally, consider that adult native speakers also make grammar and pronunciation mistakes and yet we still think of them as ‘fluent speakers’.
Note: I wish I could use italics for emphasis rather than having to use capitals:)
<<You may have been listening passively for 6 years, but HOW INTENSIVELY? (how many hours per day EVERY DAY)? Students in the ALG program, on average, go to class 3 hours per day every day for a year before they start speaking - that is, they listen very intensively over a relatively short period of time.>>
I must confess that my listening was not intensive enough if 3 hours a day is a benchmark. Some days I listened to content over 6 hours a day and other days 15 minutes, one hour, 2 hours and some days I did not listen at all. I did a lot of intensive listening on some occassions. For example, finishing off first season of Prison-break in a couple of days. 24 episodes, and each episode 45 minutes long. Or watching all seasons of Friends in a couple of weeks. Or listening to Crime and Punishment in 10 days, 25 hours long. Or listening to Study in Scarlet in 2 days. Or watching a new movie daily for three months straight. I have done all of this.They are intensive activities. I listened to a plethroa of podcasts on my mp3 player while walking, going to bed or just roaming around. I watched sports commentaries whenever i could.
All of these activities improved my vocabulary, and my listening skills. Speaking did not emerge automatically. I can speak basic sentences, yes/no type you know , that’s all. I test myself in real world and see where I stand. It is all back to zero. My pronunciation is terrible and a big obstacle to having a decent conversation.
New year is around the corner. I may apply this technique of listening 3 hours a day DAILY. Let’s see what happens next. I have a couple of questions though:
In all of these 6 years I have never done any repetitive listening to any content.
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At ALG, do students listen to a variety of content daily for three hours a day without repetition to any content? I mean, Is there always new content daily to listen to?
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What level of content? What type? Do they start from listening to day to day type conversations or do they listen to novels as well? Do they count watching movies as listening?
I have a lot resources available at home from cartoons, sitcoms, audiobooks, podcasts and you name it! I want to use all of them for my 3 hour a day listening adventure.
asad,
In which language are you having problems? It seems that you are talking about English, and yet you are writing in perfectly good English.
What David is talking about is learning a completely new language, where you don’t have any grasp of the basics. In your case, I’d say you have mastered English already. If you still can’t speak it, then it might be because you are a shy or nervous person, which is a different issue.
I am having problems with speaking the language. I am learning English. I am not shy or nervous at all. It is just that the ability of constructing a sentence is somewhere missing. I am forced to repeat myself a lot. My pronunciation is terrible. It happens with every native speaker I speak to. I would consider myself at an intermediate stage as I can do a lot of things passively yet I have a problem starting a decent conversation in real life. Never mind mastering the language. So there you go.
AJ Hoge was talking about English in particular as he is an English instructor.
He has designed his LearnrealEnglish lessons on the ideology of ALG method/Krashen…
I am wondering if listening to content 3 hours a day daily for a year might improve my speaking skills who knows. This is the method I want.
If you can wait for a year without uttering a sentence then surely give it a shot. I haven’t tested it yet for a new language So I don’t know about the results.
Asad, what in the heck are you talking about? Are writing your own posts, without outside help? Then you CAN construct a sentence as evidenced by your writing.
Something doesn’t add up here. Either you are actually suffering anxiety without knowing it, or you just can’t stand not to be perfect.
Are you demanding perfection from yourself? Sorry, you will make mistakes for a LONG time. It’s ok. You need to be patient. If a native speaker asks you to repeat, then repeat. If he or she is not patient with you, then maybe he or she is not worth getting to know.
Dodoo, writing and speaking are two different skills. When writing something I have plenty of time to construct it. That is not the case with Speaking. You need to take care of a lot of things pronunciation, intonation and clarity. In addition, to produce sentences spontaneously.
I get comments like from my American friends: One American kid told me : I can’t understand you. The other one told me: I felt like you have not listened to the language well enough. I barely understand you. Hell yeah, How could I understand you 100%?
My sister in law(American) who is kind enough to hold conversations with me over skype and she says sentences like: Asad, repeat one more time. It is annoying really.
I am not suffering from any perfection syndrome like Tom and Michal from Antimoon.
Don’t make mistakes and learn things the right way from the start.
I guess I need to listen a lot daily perhaps ALG type method might suit me. We’ll see. I’m open for suggestions.
Asad,
Assuming that what you say is true, then what I suggest is the following.
Go to the VOA special English or any other slow English content you can find. Listen to some of it over and over, slowly, for a month. do not attempt to speak. Then after a month listen to short paragraphs and try to repeat from memory, imitating what you hear, not worrying about what you missed. Do it for a few days and then try to record yourself and compare. Once you have done this at a slow pace, then do it all again at normal speed.
Let me know how it works out.
Asad
The basic ability to construct sentences transcends the mode of communication, speaking or writing. Obviously you can do it.
Of course if you have been listening more or less attententively for as long as you reported, then it is not a painstaking process either in speaking or writing. You are usually not thinking on the level of “construction a sentence”. You do not need to “take care” to produce sentences spontaneously, you are just saying or writing what comes to mind. Similarly you are not consciously performing pronunciation, clarity etc.
". Some days I listened to content over 6 hours a day and other days 15 minutes, one hour, 2 hours and some days I did not listen at all. I did a lot of intensive listening on some occassions. For example, finishing off first season of Prison-break … "
If you really did all that for 6 years, with moderate attention and of course comprehensionof the language, ie you were not just enjoying the cinematography and letting the story get in that way, then I am baffled.
Dodoo, I am baffled myself indeed. That’s why I have my doubts about such natural methods(ALG) as well. Speaking has not emerged automatically. I thought watching a lot of movies and sitcoms DAILY would take care of my pronunciation issues. I would be understood easily by native speakers. That is not the case. I am forced to repeat myself by native speakers(one speaker could have hearing issues but not all of them). This is what I call real feedback. I talk to my sister in law over skype who is white American from Iowa. She is my family member. I don’t feel shy or have any anxiety problems(as you have suggested above). I feel most relaxed when talking to her. I am a kind of guy who loves to talk with strangers. So no anxiety issues really.
I have read threads like A boy learned Fluent Spanish from watching TV in 6 months or a 6 year old girl learned English from TV in 4 months. I do not buy it. I have done a lot of TV watching and have watched like 250 movies(100 movies in three months), several episodes of sitcoms.
All of this has no bearing on my speaking ability.
I would see them speaking in real life to believe their stories. I hope they are not exaggerating their claims. What I gather from my experience is that langauge is too fuzzy in the beginning and you need a lot of active listening to see some progress never mind producing the language. It takes years of listening to understand native-speakers to a decent level.That’s my take on this. I have put in a lot of hard work and has not witnessed desirable results when it comes to speaking.
New year is around the corner. I have bought my IPOD Classic 160 GB. I am going to listen to 3 hours a day from January onwards. I’d be disciplined to the task.
My initial estimation is that I would only be good at listening but let’s see what happens next.