#282 Steve and Alex - Tiger Moms (Part 2) #282 Steve y Alex - Mamás Tigre (Parte 2) #282 スティーブとアレックス - タイガーママ（パート2） #282 Steve i Alex - tygrysie mamy (część 2) #282 Steve e Alex - Mães Tigresas (Parte 2) #282 Steve och Alex - Tiger Moms (del 2)

Steve: But, you know it’s interesting. On the subject of music, if I think of my granddaughter she had a piano teacher. She didn’t like her piano lessons and the last few years my wife, therefore, her grandmother, has started playing piano. She also didn’t like having a teacher, but Carmen started playing and she just gets better and better, slowly better. Then she was spending some time with my granddaughter, Annie, playing pieces and all of a sudden Annie got interested. So now she plays the piano a lot, but she doesn’t want a teacher and she’s improved tremendously.

As a grandfather or as a father or mother or grandmother, whatever, if you see your child or grandchild playing the piano and playing it well it makes you feel good, right? But that’s not really justification for forcing them to do something that they don’t want to do.

Alex: Right.

Steve: But, but, I get back to what I said earlier. If I had stayed with piano and if I could play piano well today I’d be happy. So there is this element that sometimes the little eight-year-old doesn’t know best and that sometimes a little bit of stimulus and prodding, if done the right way, can be effective. 因此，有一种说法是，八岁的孩子有时并不是最懂事的，如果方法得当，有时一点刺激和鞭策就能奏效。

Alex: Yeah.

I think to take off something from the point you just made is, in your case, if instead of playing football with your buddies or going out and playing hockey that you did play piano and you did develop this higher-than-normal skill and now, today, you were an accomplished pianist in the midst of everything else that you do it would be nice. 我认为，从你刚才的观点出发，就你的情况而言，如果你不和你的伙伴们踢足球，或者出去打曲棍球，而是弹钢琴，你确实发展了这种高于常人的技能，现在，今天，在你所做的其他事情中，你是一个有成就的钢琴家，这将是很好的。 But, I think at the same time often with that we tend to then overlook the fact that our childhood may not possibly have been as enjoyable or as liberating and we may not have experienced as many positive things through that time. 但是，我认为与此同时，我们往往会因此而忽略一个事实，那就是我们的童年可能并不那么愉快，也不那么自由，我们可能没有经历过那么多积极的事情。

Steve: Right.

Mind you, yeah, I definitely enjoyed going down to the park and playing ball or in the winter playing hockey. 当然，我也很喜欢去公园打球，或者在冬天打曲棍球。 In Montreal there were the outdoor rinks and you could go down and play. 蒙特利尔有室外溜冰场，你可以下去玩。 Could I have sacrificed some of that?

Even without being a concert pianist, if we have friends over and I can sit down at the piano and play music I mean that’s great, right? And I have nothing but respect for people who can play music, so there is some value there. 我会演奏音乐的人让我肃然起敬，所以这也有一定的价值。 Yeah, it’s hard to say.

Alex: I think with that, too… 亚历克斯：我也觉得......

Steve: Well, one thing before I forget.

Alex: Okay, sure.

Steve: I wanted to say one thing. Apparently there was a lot of controversy surrounding this Tiger Mom issue, because it became again one of these issues where okay, the Asian way or the Asian-American way is better than the Western way. 很显然，围绕虎妈的问题有很多争议，因为这又成了 "亚洲人的方式或亚裔美国人的方式比西方人的方式更好 "的问题之一。 Yes, it is. No, it isn’t. And this went back and forth. But, someone pointed out that a number of Asian-American kids came forward to say yeah, I had a Tiger Mom. I hated it. It was very unpleasant. 这是非常不愉快的。

So, I think some kids react well to this kind of treatment and they don’t mind the discipline. It might be. We don’t know how many kids actually have unpleasant childhoods because they really, like me, want to be down at the park playing with their buddies and they were forced to sit at the piano while their mother stood over them and slapped them around every time they got it wrong.

Alex: Yeah.

Now, I’ll bring up a story of a close friend of mine in high school. He was Korean-American born in the United States, but his parents were both from Korea and had immigrated 25 years ago or something like that. Anyway, his mom was the typical Tiger Mom, I guess. She wasn’t as strict, but at the same time he grew up playing piano, playing violin, for how ever many years. 她没有那么严格，但与此同时，他也在弹钢琴、拉小提琴的过程中成长了许多年。 I don’t even know how many years it was, probably at least a dozen years of each and by the time he graduated high school he had a senior recital, which was just him doing all his instruments, including his piano, including his violin.

But, about three years before that he had picked up the guitar and that was something that he really enjoyed. 但是，大约在三年前，他开始学吉他，这是他非常喜欢的事情。 He became passionate about the guitar and so as soon as he finished his senior recital he dropped violin, he dropped piano and he says okay, I’ve accomplished what my parents wanted me to accomplish with this. 他对吉他产生了浓厚的兴趣，所以当他完成了他的高年级独奏会后，他放弃了小提琴，放弃了钢琴，他说，好吧，我已经完成了我父母希望我完成的任务。

Now he continues to play the guitar, continues to sing and, really, I think he benefits from that musical exposure, but at the same time it goes to show that his parents wanted him to do these things. 现在，他继续弹吉他，继续唱歌，真的，我认为他从音乐的熏陶中受益匪浅，但同时也说明，他的父母希望他做这些事情。 But, in fact, now that he has more freedom he says I don’t want to do those. I want to do this. I enjoy this more.

Steve: You know I think this is something that I find in other cultures, Asian cultures, even Middle Eastern cultures, the idea that every human being, like your child, is actually an independent human being. They have their life to lead. So, you can influence, you can advise, you can help, you can support, possibly discipline, but you don’t own that life of your child.

Some of the stories you read about the kinds of pressures that are put on kids, what they’re allowed to do, not allowed to do, who they can marry, who they can go out with and all this kind of stuff, to me it’s very oppressive; the idea that you feel that you have some kind of ownership over somebody else’s life just because he or she is your child. 在你读到的一些故事中，孩子们承受着各种各样的压力，他们可以做什么，不可以做什么，可以和谁结婚，可以和谁约会，诸如此类的事情，对我来说都是非常压抑的；你觉得你对别人的生活拥有某种所有权，只是因为他或她是你的孩子。

So, I think, yeah. I mean there are some people you can slap them around, pull their hair and it doesn’t bother them at all. I was that way. 我就是那样。 I mean when I was growing up there was more physical punishment, right?

Alex: Yeah.

Steve: So, yeah. I mean at school I used to get hit all the time. My parents would slap me. I got the cane. I got welts on my bum. It didn’t bother me at all, but I think there are people who, in fact, can be almost marked by that and we don’t know who those people are. 我一点也不觉得困扰，但我觉得有些人，事实上，几乎可以因此而被打上烙印，我们不知道这些人是谁。

Alex: Absolutely. I can say from personal experience that when I was growing up, of course, me and my siblings are different. My middle brother is the complete opposite of me. I would say I’m more sensitive. 我会说我更敏感。 I’m more reactive towards certain things and say more easily affected by what people will say and do, but he doesn’t care. He just doesn’t care. You could say whatever. You could do whatever. It doesn’t matter. It’s a personality difference. 这是性格差异。

Steve: Right.

Alex: I think even though we were raised in the exact same household with the exact same parents, the exact same siblings and went to the same schools, so on and so forth, that as time went on we grew more and more different. 亚历克斯：我认为，尽管我们在完全相同的家庭中长大，有完全相同的父母、完全相同的兄弟姐妹、完全相同的学校等等，但随着时间的推移，我们的差异越来越大。

Steve: Right.

Alex: Right?

Steve: Yeah.

Alex: Now, we still get along, but we’re totally different. 亚历克斯：现在，我们依然相处融洽，但已经完全不同了。

Steve: Right.

Alex: So to say that every kid should do the exact same thing because this is the golden keys to success, it’s simply not true. 亚历克斯：所以说每个孩子都应该做一模一样的事情，因为这是成功的金钥匙，这是不正确的。

Steve: Right.

However, I mean I also have some sympathy for the Tiger Mom, like the Tiger Mom wants to do that. I mean I certainly wouldn’t want the state to come in and say you are not allowed to do that, you know? 我的意思是，我当然不希望国家介入，说不允许你这么做，你明白吗？ So that’s her thing. It could be a cultural thing and her children may be the next generation of Tiger Moms or they may react against it. So, I think we can have different kinds of ways of bringing up your kids, different kids. I mean I believe in diversity, variety, free choice.

I sometimes sympathize with the Tiger Mom to the extent that I think sometimes things are too easy. 我有时很同情 "虎妈"，因为我觉得有时事情太容易了。 Quite honestly, I think the schools in North America are too easy. I think some of the junk that we have on television is just…I can’t watch it. 我觉得电视上的一些垃圾节目......我实在看不下去了。 It’s just terrible. I just think that some of that influence from Asia is probably a good thing, so if we have more immigrants from Asia now and they influence, you know, certain things in our culture it might be for the good.

Alex: Well, I must say, though, having recently been in China and, also, watching a lot of Korean TV as well, they have their own silly things. It’s no more serious than it would be here. 这并不比在这里严重。

Steve: Right.

Alex: But, I agree. I think reading the article, the article that she wrote about her book…

Steve: Right.

Alex: …this is Amy Chua…

Steve: Yeah.

Alex: …it wasn’t that bad. 亚历克斯：......没那么糟。 She did a good job at explaining why she did this and so on and so forth and she didn’t have this air of superiority saying oh, we are so much better because of this, but it was the title that kind of got to me when he says “Why Chinese Moms are Superior”. 她很好地解释了她为什么要这样做，等等等等，她并没有那种优越感，说哦，因为这样我们才变得这么好，但是当他说 "为什么中国妈妈是优越的 "时，这个标题让我有点印象深刻。

Steve: Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Alex: So I think this notion is, in fact, quite dangerous. Who are we to say that we’re better or worse? 我们有什么资格说自己是好是坏？

Steve: Right.

Alex: There’s, in fact, positive elements to each culture.

Steve: Right.

Alex: And there’s negative to each as well, so.

Steve: The best mom is your own mom. All right, we’ll end up on that note.

Alex: Yes. Cool.

Steve: Okay.

Alex: Thanks for listening.

Steve: Bye. Thank you.

Alex: Bye-bye.