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English LingQ Podcast 1.0, #264 Mark & Steve – Homes

#264 Mark & Steve – Homes

Mark: Hello and welcome back for another episode of the EnglishLingQ podcast. Mark here with Steve.

Steve: Hi there. Hello everyone.

Mark: Today, we thought we would talk a little bit. We had a request on the forum from Hiroko, asking us to talk a bit about housing or houses or different rooms in houses. So we thought we'd spend some time right now talking a little bit about houses. Steve: Well and that's, perhaps, a good opportunity to say that today you and family are leaving. You are going skiing in the interior over the long weekend, the Easter weekend.

So, Hiroko -- I spoke to her in our chat when I tutored her – said that she really enjoys our EnglishLingQ podcasts and when is the next episode? And I said, well, you know, we get no fan mail. We get no response. It's just like talking into the emptiness, so to speak, of the blogosphere or whatever. Mark: Right.

Steve: But if she is going to encourage us then we will, in fact, do them more often. And then Hiroko specifically asked for something about houses, so I am now at Mark's house. He's busy packing, getting ready to leave and we're sitting in your study. Mark: Yeah and just before we get into the discussion one thing you said, you mentioned the Easter weekend which, of course, is this weekend, coming up. I just thought I would mention that a lot of non-native speakers that I've run into refer to this weekend as “Eastern” weekend. Steve: Yes.

Mark: So I just wanted to make that clear that it's Easter with no “n” on the end. Not to be confused with the geographic…

Steve: …direction or location. So there's no Western weekend, Northern or Southern weekend. Mark: Exactly.

Steve: There's only Easter. Mark: Easter -- which has nothing to do with Eastern. Anyway, so, yeah, that's right, we're going away for the long weekend. We're going skiing, it should be great. I think they've had a lot of new snow and we're packing up. There's not much in the way of restaurants or shopping where we're going, so we bring all our food with us. It's a condo. It's a great family holiday, actually. We go skiing during the day and then hunker down in the evenings and play games or do various thing to wile away the time.

Steve: I should add, by the way, for those of you who followed the lead up to the Olympics and the problems we had here with snow, even the local mountains -- like 20 minutes from where we live -- have now been getting snow. So all the snow we didn't get for the Olympics and we were trucking snow in, the Green Olympics, spending God knows how much money for trucking, if the Olympics had been two weeks later… Mark: Yeah, that's the amazing thing. I mean I can't remember a stretch of warm weather like that in a long time. Steve: Right.

Mark: Just checking on that blender noise in the background which, in fact, was a blender.

Steve: Right.

I though maybe they were doing some carpentry here in the house. So, anyway, we got the snow that we didn't have. Mark: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Now talking about a house, I guess, you know, we've lived in a number of countries. Typically in North America, people like to live in a single-family house, but not everyone can afford it. And, of course, people who are single or couples who are just starting out and older people who are retired -- sometimes called “empty nesters”, because their nest has become empty as their kids have gone out to set up their own sort of homes -- they'll live in apartments, but overwhelmingly people like to live in single-family homes. Mark: Yeah.

I mean, at least North America wide, wood-frame construction is the norm, which is a cheaper way of building than in a lot of other countries. I know in Europe if the home isn't built out of concrete they don't feel safe; I've heard that issue raised. I know that Igor is always not comfortable – one of our programmers – living in a wood-frame house. He kind of felt that it just wasn't as strong as a concrete house or apartment building, which is, I guess, what he's been used to living in his whole life. I mean it's interesting the impressions that people get, because my understanding is that the wood-frame construction is very strong if not better, in some applications. Steve: Well, certainly, any form of construction you can reinforce it, I presume, to some extent to achieve whatever you want, but, certainly, if brick is the structural element that, by itself, is very vulnerable to earthquakes; also, it's more difficult to insulate a brick building, but you can add insulation. You can add reinforcing steel or other members and stuff, so you can, more or less, achieve what you want, but the wooden construction, which we have here, works fine.

Some of the issues like fire they have dealt with. There are very few fires. I remember once playing golf with a retired fireman and he was saying that they really very rarely get called out on a fire, mostly it's somebody who has a heart attack or something and then the fire engines have to go out and administer first aide. So the wooden homes that we have here work just fine. In those areas where people like brick, they'll just put on what we call a brick veneer, like a brick exterior. So you will often see an exterior of a building which is brick, but, in fact, structurally, it's all wooden construction. Mark: Right.

Steve: Yeah. So in terms of the size of homes, I think a typical house probably in Canada is around 2,000 square feet, would you say?

Mark: Oh, I would guess, yeah.

Steve: Two-thousand. Getting larger 2,500 – which in terms of square meters is just divided by 10, roughly, so it's 200 square meters, 250 square meters -- but a lot of people build larger homes, 300-400 square meters and so forth. Yeah.

I mean in Japan people like single-family homes.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: People are very surprised to hear that over 40% of the houses being built today in Japan are single-family wooden homes, not high-rise. Whereas, you go to a country like Russia, which is the largest country in the world, unlimited space and they build concrete high-rise.

Mark: And lots of wood they have there.

Steve: And they have lots of wood.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: That is a mystery to us – why they don't build with wood. Mark: Yeah.

But, I guess, I mean that's what they've been accustomed to for so long. That's kind of what they think of as a home is a concrete apartment building and maybe, obviously, it's a function of wealth, too, and resources. Steve: True enough.

Mark: To buy land a build a house has got to be a bigger cost.

Steve: Well, I think they're not used to the idea, too, of having sort of privately-owned land, perhaps, because of the previous system. We're partial to wood, because I'm in the wood business, of course. The country with the highest per capita consumption of wood is Finland. And I would think that there are many areas in northern Russia which are very similar to Finland in terms of the nature and the availability of the wood. So, anyway, hopefully one day they'll use more wood. Mark: That's the idea. Steve: Good for my business, yeah. One thing that's perhaps different here, talking about culture, in your house you have your kitchen and then there is a counter and very often you'll eat at the counter. Mark: Right.

Steve: And so the people…I mean your kids and you and Kindrey…or Kindrey might be in the kitchen preparing the food and gradually putting things out onto the counter. The kids are often in a hurry to start eating, they'll just start eating. If you have guests then the dining area is just beyond the counter.

Mark: Right.

Steve: I remember in Japan, some years ago, when we were comparing house designs in different countries and we explained that in North America it's quite common to have a kitchen counter and that way things can be passed over to either eat on the counter or eat at the table and the Japanese couldn't understand that because, from their point of view, the wife should bring the food out from the kitchen. Mark: And the kitchen is kind of tucked away and hidden.

Steve: Tucked away somewhere, but I think all of these things change.

Mark: Oh, for sure.

I mean I think it used to be the case here where the kitchen was more of a separate room. But the one thing that you do find is that if you have a party, whether your kitchen opens out on a…our kitchen is quite open, but even if it isn't, people tend to gravitate toward the kitchen. Steve: Right.

Mark: People always end up in the kitchen.

Steve: Absolutely.

Mark: Which is, I think, how this type of living came about or this type of design came about. Because people want to be in the kitchen, so why not make the kitchen part of the living area.

Steve: Right.

Mark: And that's, in a sense, what we have and what you have, which is very common here now. Steve: I mean absolutely. When we have guests, people have their drink of whatever -- a beer, a glass of wine, a glass of water -- and they gravitate around the kitchen because, first of all, the lady of the house is still cooking.

Mark: Not always the lady. It doesn't have to be. Steve: No, I'm sorry. Excuse me, whoever is preparing the meal.

Mark: That's right. Steve: Yes, we mustn't have these stereotyped gender roles. Mark: That's right. Like my son out there right now, he's watching the Cooking Network, maybe it will be him. Steve: But that would be one thing that might be somewhat unique. What other things are there?

I think, generally speaking, one thing that has happened all over the world is the increased insulation value of walls and windows. People are much more conscious of not only conserving energy, but also the fact that you can live more comfortably in a better insulated house.

The standards here in Canada have become much, much tighter with regard to insulation. In Japan we've noticed the same trends. I think the Scandinavians were probably the leaders for a long time and possibly Germany. But that's a general trend and I think that's going to continue. Mark: I mean I do know from when I was in Japan -- and it could have just been the houses that I was in -- there was not a lot of insulation.

Steve: No.

Mark: It's interesting the way…like in Japan they don't have central heating, they space heat. Steve: Right.

Mark: I know things may be changing there now. But, at least where I was living, the house had no insulation and then you sort of heat up the room that you're in. Steve: Right.

Mark: And if you have more than two or three heaters going the circuit breaker would go. So you can't heat the whole house, you can only heat where you are. But then the rest of the house isn't insulated, so that heat just dissipates very quickly. And I know that some Japanese people felt that it's a bit wasteful or feel that it's wasteful to heat the whole house if you're not using the whole house, but I've got to believe that the way we do it here is more efficient -- where we insulate the whole house, heat the whole house, but you don't lose nearly the same amount of heat, so you're more comfortable and more efficient. Steve: I mean if you have a very well-insulated house you use very little energy to keep that house warm.

Mark: Right.

Steve: Also, if you have a poorly-insulated house and you are heating only one room, you have the possibility of creating serious problems with condensation, which (A) is uncomfortable, (B) could lead to mold, which is unhealthy and which can also cause structural damage to any of the building components.

And, of course, you were in Nikko. Nikko is near Tokyo, but it's a higher elevation, it's colder. It's cold there in the winter. Mark: Oh, for sure.

Steve: And, yet, somehow in Japan -- and this may have changed -- the coldest part of Japan, which is Hokkaido that's where you're the most comfortable in the winter, because that's where people build for the cold. Mark: Right.

Steve: They know it's cold, so they have to build to stay warm. It's in those places where it's kind of not arctic cold, but it's still cold that they don't spend the money on insulation, they don't spend the money on proper windows, they don't put in central heating and they're uncomfortable. So you're more comfortable in the winter in Hokkaido than you are in Tokyo. Mark: Right.

Steve: But, anyway.

Mark: Yeah.

No, I think that people just have to understand what's out there. And, I think, partly it's the builders in Japan. Steve: It's the builders. Mark: They don't provide the option. So people don't know any better, that's what you get. But I think it's one of those things; over time it will change. Steve: I think all of these things are a function of an increasing demand, the increasing awareness. I remember when I lived in Japan there were a few builders that were starting to offer a very high-quality, well-insulated home, so that then provides some choice. Then people start demanding this of the other builders, but none of this happens overnight. In any market there's a gradual changeover, just the way the American car or, at least, the Japanese car industry forced the American car industry to provide better-quality, better-engineered cars. So competition is a good thing.

Mark: I mean it was no different when I was Italy in Asiago; we were pretty cold in those little concrete buildings.

Steve: Oh yeah.

Mark: And that's up in the mountains, I mean that's a cold place too. Steve: Oh, I know, it's cold. Well, even when we visited you in Klagenfurt.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: There if you have a shower or if you cook there was water running off the walls in the whole apartment. Anyway, so we think that our wooden homes are pretty comfortable, but the people who come here from other countries think they're just shacks. So there's no arguing with culture. Mark: Well, I mean I think when they're inside they don't realize, necessarily, how they're built. Steve: Right.

Mark: It's only when you see a house being built where they think, oh boy, that doesn't look very sturdy. Steve: No.

Mark: I mean once it's built and completed and the siding is on and the interior finish is on I mean to people it looks solid, feels solid. Steve: One of the things that really used to get to Japanese visitors was, here, most houses have a basement and so you use forming -- plywood, typically, sometimes boards, but mostly plywood as the form for the concrete. Alright?

Mark: Right.

Steve: Once you've finished with forms, that plywood is then used on the walls to provide structural, basically, lateral strength to the building because you have rigidity. You have your posts and beams, if you want, and the posts are sometimes called studs because they're small, little posts spaced every, you know, 16 inches or 18 inches, whatever it may be. So the lateral strength comes from the plywood, but of course the plywood now looks dirty because it was used for the concrete forming.

Mark: Right.

Steve: And the Japanese visitors say ah, we couldn't do that in Japan. I mean the customer would complain. But why would they possibly complain? The fact that the structural plywood has a little bit of leftover, you know, grayish-looking bits of concrete has no affect on anything.

Mark: No, exactly.

Steve: But, there again, it's a cultural difference. The Japanese home buyer that's ordered this home wants every piece of wood to be absolutely clean and so they have these expectations, which people here don't have. So these are some of the cultural differences.

Mark: Otherwise, I mean…I'm trying to think in different countries what the differences here would be. Steve: I think one of the interesting things is this whole issue of earthquakes. A lot of countries that have earthquakes suffer a lot because they build with concrete and brick. That was the case in Italy. Italy is a very earthquake-prone country…

Mark: Right.

Steve: …and in certain areas in China as well. First of all, the walls themselves, unless they're properly reinforced, are weak and if you then have a heavy super structure, like the floors and the roof system are all made of concrete, it's pretty heavy when that comes falling down on you. Mark: Well, yeah.

Steve: Whereas, you can design wooden homes to be very, very earthquake resistant with a lot of extra lateral support and cross bracing. Plus, then the roof structure can be a lot lighter, you can use trusses rather than heavy beams.

That's another thing, a heavy beam, a wooden, heavy, beam falling down on you is not too nice, but if you build with trusses, which are these sort of web construction of smaller pieces engineered to specific loads. Whether they be snow loads or, you know, the kinds of stresses that would happen in an earthquake, I mean that's much better. I would love to see Italy and China start using more wood.

Mark: Absolutely.

Steve: So we're using this podcast here to promote wood around the world. Wood is renewable. Wood is healthy. Wood is good. It's CO2 neutral. Come on there. Get out there and start using wood.

Mark: I think that's probably a good place to finish off. Steve: Okay.

Mark: Thanks very much for the suggestion Hiroko and we'll talk to you again soon. Steve: Thank you, bye-bye.


#264 Mark & Steve – Homes #264 Mark & Steve – Zuhause #264 Mark & Steve - Hogares #264号 マーク&スティーブ・ホームズ

Mark:    Hello and welcome back for another episode of the EnglishLingQ podcast. Mark: Hallo und willkommen zurück zu einer weiteren Folge des EnglishLingQ-Podcasts. Mark here with Steve. Markieren Sie hier mit Steve.

Steve:    Hi there. Hello everyone.

Mark:    Today, we thought we would talk a little bit. Mark: Heute dachten wir, wir würden uns ein bisschen unterhalten. We had a request on the forum from Hiroko, asking us to talk a bit about housing or houses or different rooms in houses. Wir hatten eine Anfrage im Forum von Hiroko, die uns bat, ein wenig über Wohnen oder Häuser oder verschiedene Räume in Häusern zu sprechen. So we thought we'd spend some time right now talking a little bit about houses. Also dachten wir, wir würden jetzt etwas Zeit damit verbringen, ein bisschen über Häuser zu reden. Steve:    Well and that's, perhaps, a good opportunity to say that today you and family are leaving. Steve: Nun, und das ist vielleicht eine gute Gelegenheit zu sagen, dass Sie und Ihre Familie heute gehen. You are going skiing in the interior over the long weekend, the Easter weekend. Sie fahren über das lange Wochenende, das Osterwochenende, ins Landesinnere zum Skifahren. Вы собираетесь кататься на лыжах в интерьере в течение длинных выходных, пасхальных выходных.

So, Hiroko -- I spoke to her in our chat when I tutored her – said that she really enjoys our EnglishLingQ podcasts and when is the next episode? Also, Hiroko – ich habe mit ihr in unserem Chat gesprochen, als ich sie unterrichtete – sagte, dass sie unsere EnglishLingQ-Podcasts wirklich mag und wann die nächste Episode kommt? And I said, well, you know, we get no fan mail. Und ich sagte, nun, wissen Sie, wir bekommen keine Fanpost. We get no response. Wir bekommen keine Antwort. It's just like talking into the emptiness, so to speak, of the blogosphere or whatever. Es ist, als würde man sozusagen in die Leere der Blogosphäre oder was auch immer hineinreden. Het is net alsof je in de leegte praat, om zo te zeggen, van de blogosfeer of wat dan ook. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    But if she is going to encourage us then we will, in fact, do them more often. Steve: Aber wenn sie uns ermutigt, dann werden wir sie tatsächlich öfter machen. And then Hiroko specifically asked for something about houses, so I am now at Mark's house. Und dann hat Hiroko ausdrücklich nach etwas über Häuser gefragt, also bin ich jetzt bei Marks Haus. He's busy packing, getting ready to leave and we're sitting in your study. Er packt fleißig, macht sich fertig zum Aufbruch und wir sitzen in deinem Arbeitszimmer. Mark:    Yeah and just before we get into the discussion one thing you said, you mentioned the Easter weekend which, of course, is this weekend, coming up. Mark: Ja, und kurz bevor wir in die Diskussion kommen, hast du eine Sache gesagt, du hast das Osterwochenende erwähnt, das natürlich dieses kommende Wochenende ist. I just thought I would mention that a lot of non-native speakers that I've run into refer to this weekend as “Eastern” weekend. Ich dachte nur, ich erwähne, dass viele Nicht-Muttersprachler, denen ich begegnet bin, dieses Wochenende als „Ostwochenende“ bezeichnen. Steve:    Yes.

Mark:    So I just wanted to make that clear that it's Easter with no “n” on the end. Mark: Ich wollte nur klarstellen, dass Ostern ohne „n“ am Ende ist. Not to be confused with the geographic… Nicht zu verwechseln mit dem geografischen …

Steve:    …direction or location. Steve: … Richtung oder Ort. So there's no Western weekend, Northern or Southern weekend. Es gibt also kein westliches, nördliches oder südliches Wochenende. Mark:    Exactly.

Steve:    There's only Easter. Steve: Es gibt nur Ostern. Mark:    Easter -- which has nothing to do with Eastern. Mark: Ostern – das hat nichts mit Ostern zu tun. Anyway, so, yeah, that's right, we're going away for the long weekend. Wie auch immer, also, ja, das ist richtig, wir fahren über das lange Wochenende weg. We're going skiing, it should be great. Wir gehen Ski fahren, das soll toll werden. I think they've had a lot of new snow and we're packing up. Ich glaube, es hat viel Neuschnee gegeben, und wir packen zusammen. There's not much in the way of restaurants or shopping where we're going, so we bring all our food with us. Es gibt nicht viele Restaurants oder Einkaufsmöglichkeiten, wohin wir gehen, also bringen wir alle unsere Lebensmittel mit. It's a condo. Es ist eine Eigentumswohnung. It's a great family holiday, actually. Es ist eigentlich ein toller Familienurlaub. We go skiing during the day and then hunker down in the evenings and play games or do various thing to wile away the time. Tagsüber gehen wir Ski fahren und abends hocken wir uns dann mit Spielen oder diversen Dingen zum Zeitvertreib hin. We gaan overdag skiën en hurken 's avonds neer en spelen spelletjes of doen verschillende dingen om de tijd te verdrijven.

Steve:    I should add, by the way, for those of you who followed the lead up to the Olympics and the problems we had here with snow, even the local mountains -- like 20 minutes from where we live -- have now been getting snow. Steve: Ich sollte übrigens für diejenigen von Ihnen hinzufügen, die den Weg zu den Olympischen Spielen verfolgt haben, und die Probleme, die wir hier mit Schnee hatten, sogar die lokalen Berge - etwa 20 Minuten von unserem Wohnort entfernt - sind jetzt schlechter geworden Schnee. So all the snow we didn't get for the Olympics and we were trucking snow in, the Green Olympics, spending God knows how much money for trucking, if the Olympics had been two weeks later… Also all den Schnee, den wir nicht für die Olympischen Spiele bekommen haben, und wir haben Schnee per LKW hereingefahren, die Green Olympics, Gott weiß wie viel Geld für den Transport ausgegeben, wenn die Olympischen Spiele zwei Wochen später gewesen wären … Mark:    Yeah, that's the amazing thing. Mark: Ja, das ist das Erstaunliche. I mean I can't remember a stretch of warm weather like that in a long time. Ich meine, ich kann mich schon lange nicht mehr an so warmes Wetter erinnern. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    Just checking on that blender noise in the background which, in fact, was a blender. Mark: Ich habe mir nur das Mixer-Geräusch im Hintergrund angesehen, das tatsächlich ein Mixer war.

Steve:    Right.

I though maybe they were doing some carpentry here in the house. Ich dachte, vielleicht machten sie hier im Haus Zimmermannsarbeiten. So, anyway, we got the snow that we didn't have. Jedenfalls haben wir den Schnee bekommen, den wir nicht hatten. Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    Yeah. Now talking about a house, I guess, you know, we've lived in a number of countries. Wenn wir jetzt über ein Haus sprechen, wissen Sie, wir haben in einer Reihe von Ländern gelebt. Typically in North America, people like to live in a single-family house, but not everyone can afford it. Typischerweise lebt man in Nordamerika gerne in einem Einfamilienhaus, aber nicht jeder kann es sich leisten. And, of course, people who are single or couples who are just starting out and older people who are retired -- sometimes called “empty nesters”, because their nest has become empty as their kids have gone out to set up their own sort of homes -- they'll live in apartments, but overwhelmingly people like to live in single-family homes. Und natürlich Singles oder Paare, die gerade erst anfangen, und ältere Menschen im Ruhestand – manchmal auch „leere Nester“ genannt, weil ihr Nest leer geworden ist, weil ihre Kinder ausgezogen sind, um ihre eigene Art von zu gründen Häuser -- sie werden in Wohnungen leben, aber die überwiegende Mehrheit der Menschen lebt gerne in Einfamilienhäusern. Mark:    Yeah.

I mean, at least North America wide, wood-frame construction is the norm, which is a cheaper way of building than in a lot of other countries. Ich meine, zumindest in Nordamerika ist die Holzrahmenbauweise die Norm, was eine billigere Bauweise ist als in vielen anderen Ländern. I know in Europe if the home isn't built out of concrete they don't feel safe; I've heard that issue raised. Ich weiß, dass man sich in Europa nicht sicher fühlt, wenn das Haus nicht aus Beton gebaut ist; Ich habe gehört, dass dieses Problem angesprochen wurde. I know that Igor is always not comfortable – one of our programmers – living in a wood-frame house. Ich weiß, dass es Igor – einer unserer Programmierer – immer unangenehm ist, in einem Holzrahmenhaus zu leben. He kind of felt that it just wasn't as strong as a concrete house or apartment building, which is, I guess, what he's been used to living in his whole life. Irgendwie hatte er das Gefühl, dass es einfach nicht so stark war wie ein Haus oder Wohnhaus aus Beton, an das er sich wohl sein ganzes Leben lang gewöhnt hatte. I mean it's interesting the impressions that people get, because my understanding is that the wood-frame construction is very strong if not better, in some applications. Ich meine, es ist interessant, welche Eindrücke die Leute bekommen, denn ich verstehe, dass die Holzrahmenkonstruktion in einigen Anwendungen sehr stark, wenn nicht sogar besser ist. Steve:    Well, certainly, any form of construction you can reinforce it, I presume, to some extent to achieve whatever you want, but, certainly, if brick is the structural element that, by itself, is very vulnerable to earthquakes; also, it's more difficult to insulate a brick building, but you can add insulation. Steve: Nun, sicherlich kann jede Art von Konstruktion verstärkt werden, nehme ich an, bis zu einem gewissen Grad, um zu erreichen, was immer Sie wollen, aber sicherlich, wenn Ziegel das strukturelle Element sind, das an sich sehr anfällig für Erdbeben ist; Außerdem ist es schwieriger, ein Backsteingebäude zu isolieren, aber Sie können eine Isolierung hinzufügen. You can add reinforcing steel or other members and stuff, so you can, more or less, achieve what you want, but the wooden construction, which we have here, works fine. Sie können Bewehrungsstahl oder andere Elemente und anderes Zeug hinzufügen, so dass Sie mehr oder weniger erreichen können, was Sie wollen, aber die Holzkonstruktion, die wir hier haben, funktioniert gut.

Some of the issues like fire they have dealt with. Einige der Probleme wie Feuer, mit denen sie sich befasst haben. There are very few fires. Es gibt nur sehr wenige Brände. I remember once playing golf with a retired fireman and he was saying that they really very rarely get called out on a fire, mostly it's somebody who has a heart attack or something and then the fire engines have to go out and administer first aide. Ich erinnere mich, dass ich einmal mit einem pensionierten Feuerwehrmann Golf gespielt habe und er sagte, dass sie wirklich sehr selten zu einem Brand gerufen werden, meistens ist es jemand, der einen Herzinfarkt oder so etwas hat, und dann müssen die Feuerwehrautos raus und Erste Hilfe leisten. Я помню, как однажды играл в гольф с бывшим пожарным, и он сказал, что их действительно очень редко вызывают на пожар, в основном это кого-то, у кого сердечный приступ или что-то в этом роде, и тогда пожарные машины должны выйти и оказать первую помощь. So the wooden homes that we have here work just fine. Die Holzhäuser, die wir hier haben, funktionieren also gut. In those areas where people like brick, they'll just put on what we call a brick veneer, like a brick exterior. In den Bereichen, in denen die Leute Ziegel mögen, bringen sie einfach das an, was wir ein Ziegelfurnier nennen, wie eine Ziegelfassade. So you will often see an exterior of a building which is brick, but, in fact, structurally, it's all wooden construction. Sie werden also oft ein Gebäude sehen, das aus Backstein besteht, aber tatsächlich ist es strukturell alles aus Holz. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Yeah. So in terms of the size of homes, I think a typical house probably in Canada is around 2,000 square feet, would you say? In Bezug auf die Größe der Häuser denke ich, dass ein typisches Haus in Kanada wahrscheinlich etwa 2.000 Quadratfuß groß ist, würden Sie sagen?

Mark:    Oh, I would guess, yeah. Mark: Oh, ich würde vermuten, ja.

Steve:    Two-thousand. Getting larger 2,500 – which in terms of square meters is just divided by 10, roughly, so it's 200 square meters, 250 square meters -- but a lot of people build larger homes, 300-400 square meters and so forth. Größer werden 2.500 – was in Quadratmetern ausgedrückt nur durch 10 geteilt wird, ungefähr, also sind es 200 Quadratmeter, 250 Quadratmeter – aber viele Leute bauen größere Häuser, 300-400 Quadratmeter und so weiter. Yeah.

I mean in Japan people like single-family homes. Ich meine, in Japan mögen die Leute Einfamilienhäuser.

Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    People are very surprised to hear that over 40% of the houses being built today in Japan are single-family wooden homes, not high-rise. Steve: Die Leute sind sehr überrascht zu hören, dass über 40 % der Häuser, die heute in Japan gebaut werden, Einfamilienhäuser aus Holz sind und keine Hochhäuser. Стив: Люди очень удивлены, узнав, что более 40% домов, строящихся сегодня в Японии, — это деревянные дома для одной семьи, а не многоэтажки. Whereas, you go to a country like Russia, which is the largest country in the world, unlimited space and they build concrete high-rise. Dagegen geht man in ein Land wie Russland, das das größte Land der Welt ist, unbegrenzten Platz und sie bauen Betonhochhäuser.

Mark:    And lots of wood they have there. Mark: Und viel Holz haben sie da.

Steve:    And they have lots of wood. Steve: Und sie haben viel Holz.

Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    That is a mystery to us – why they don't build with wood. Steve: Das ist uns ein Rätsel – warum sie nicht mit Holz bauen. Mark:    Yeah.

But, I guess, I mean that's what they've been accustomed to for so long. Aber ich denke, ich meine, das ist es, woran sie so lange gewöhnt sind. That's kind of what they think of as a home is a concrete apartment building and maybe, obviously, it's a function of wealth, too, and resources. So ungefähr stellen sie sich ein Zuhause als ein konkretes Wohnhaus vor, und vielleicht ist es offensichtlich auch eine Funktion des Reichtums und der Ressourcen. Steve:    True enough. Steve: Richtig genug.

Mark:    To buy land a build a house has got to be a bigger cost. Mark: Land zu kaufen und ein Haus zu bauen, muss höhere Kosten verursachen.

Steve:    Well, I think they're not used to the idea, too, of having sort of privately-owned land, perhaps, because of the previous system. Steve: Nun, ich denke, sie sind auch nicht an die Idee gewöhnt, eine Art Land in Privatbesitz zu haben, vielleicht wegen des vorherigen Systems. We're partial to wood, because I'm in the wood business, of course. Wir haben eine Vorliebe für Holz, weil ich natürlich im Holzgeschäft bin. The country with the highest per capita consumption of wood is Finland. Das Land mit dem höchsten Pro-Kopf-Verbrauch an Holz ist Finnland. And I would think that there are many areas in northern Russia which are very similar to Finland in terms of the nature and the availability of the wood. Und ich denke, dass es viele Gebiete in Nordrussland gibt, die Finnland in Bezug auf die Natur und die Verfügbarkeit des Holzes sehr ähnlich sind. So, anyway, hopefully one day they'll use more wood. Jedenfalls werden sie hoffentlich eines Tages mehr Holz verbrauchen. Mark:    That's the idea. Steve:    Good for my business, yeah. One thing that's perhaps different here, talking about culture, in your house you have your kitchen and then there is a counter and very often you'll eat at the counter. Eine Sache, die hier vielleicht anders ist, wenn wir über Kultur sprechen, in Ihrem Haus haben Sie Ihre Küche und dann gibt es eine Theke, und sehr oft essen Sie an der Theke. Одна вещь, которая, возможно, здесь отличается, говоря о культуре, в вашем доме у вас есть кухня, а затем есть прилавок, и очень часто вы едите за прилавком. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    And so the people…I mean your kids and you and Kindrey…or Kindrey might be in the kitchen preparing the food and gradually putting things out onto the counter. Steve: Und so die Leute … ich meine deine Kinder und du und Kindrey … oder Kindrey könnte in der Küche sein, die das Essen zubereitet und nach und nach die Dinge auf die Theke stellt. The kids are often in a hurry to start eating, they'll just start eating. Die Kinder haben es oft eilig, mit dem Essen anzufangen, sie fangen einfach an zu essen. If you have guests then the dining area is just beyond the counter. Wenn Sie Gäste haben, befindet sich der Essbereich direkt hinter der Theke.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    I remember in Japan, some years ago, when we were comparing house designs in different countries and we explained that in North America it's quite common to have a kitchen counter and that way things can be passed over to either eat on the counter or eat at the table and the Japanese couldn't understand that because, from their point of view, the wife should bring the food out from the kitchen. Steve: Ich erinnere mich an Japan vor einigen Jahren, als wir Hausdesigns in verschiedenen Ländern verglichen und erklärt haben, dass es in Nordamerika ziemlich üblich ist, eine Küchentheke zu haben, und auf diese Weise können Dinge entweder auf der Theke oder auf der Theke gegessen werden am Tisch essen und das konnten die Japaner nicht verstehen, denn aus ihrer Sicht sollte die Frau das Essen aus der Küche bringen. Mark:    And the kitchen is kind of tucked away and hidden. Mark: Und die Küche ist irgendwie versteckt und versteckt.

Steve:    Tucked away somewhere, but I think all of these things change. Steve: Irgendwo versteckt, aber ich denke, all diese Dinge ändern sich. Стив: Где-то спрятан, но я думаю, что все эти вещи меняются.

Mark:    Oh, for sure. Mark: Oh, sicher.

I mean I think it used to be the case here where the kitchen was more of a separate room. Ich meine, ich glaube, das war hier früher so, wo die Küche eher ein separater Raum war. But the one thing that you do find is that if you have a party, whether your kitchen opens out on a…our kitchen is quite open, but even if it isn't, people tend to gravitate toward the kitchen. Aber das einzige, was Sie feststellen, ist, dass, wenn Sie eine Party veranstalten, ob sich Ihre Küche zu einem … öffnet, unsere Küche ziemlich offen ist, aber selbst wenn dies nicht der Fall ist, neigen die Leute dazu, sich in die Küche zu bewegen. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    People always end up in the kitchen. Mark: Die Leute landen immer in der Küche.

Steve:    Absolutely.

Mark:    Which is, I think, how this type of living came about or this type of design came about. Mark: Das ist, glaube ich, wie diese Art des Wohnens oder diese Art von Design entstanden ist. Because people want to be in the kitchen, so why not make the kitchen part of the living area. Weil Menschen in der Küche sein wollen, warum also nicht die Küche zu einem Teil des Wohnbereichs machen?

Steve:    Right.

Mark:    And that's, in a sense, what we have and what you have, which is very common here now. Mark: Und das ist in gewisser Weise das, was wir haben und was Sie haben, was hier jetzt sehr verbreitet ist. Steve:    I mean absolutely. Steve: Ich meine absolut. When we have guests, people have their drink of whatever -- a beer, a glass of wine, a glass of water -- and they gravitate around the kitchen because, first of all, the lady of the house is still cooking. Wenn wir Gäste haben, trinken die Leute was auch immer – ein Bier, ein Glas Wein, ein Glas Wasser – und sie drängen sich in der Küche herum, weil die Hausherrin erst einmal noch kocht.

Mark:    Not always the lady. Mark: Nicht immer die Dame. It doesn't have to be. Es muss nicht sein. Steve:    No, I'm sorry. Steve: Nein, tut mir leid. Excuse me, whoever is preparing the meal. Entschuldigung, wer auch immer das Essen zubereitet.

Mark:    That's right. Markus: Das stimmt. Steve:    Yes, we mustn't have these stereotyped gender roles. Steve: Ja, wir dürfen diese stereotypen Geschlechterrollen nicht haben. Mark:    That's right. Like my son out there right now, he's watching the Cooking Network, maybe it will be him. Wie mein Sohn da draußen sieht er gerade Cooking Network, vielleicht wird er es sein. Steve:    But that would be one thing that might be somewhat unique. Steve: Aber das wäre eine Sache, die etwas Einzigartiges sein könnte. What other things are there? Welche anderen Dinge gibt es?

I think, generally speaking, one thing that has happened all over the world is the increased insulation value of walls and windows. Ich denke, im Allgemeinen ist eine Sache, die auf der ganzen Welt passiert ist, der erhöhte Dämmwert von Wänden und Fenstern. People are much more conscious of not only conserving energy, but also the fact that you can live more comfortably in a better insulated house. Die Menschen achten viel mehr darauf, nicht nur Energie zu sparen, sondern auch, dass man in einem besser gedämmten Haus bequemer wohnen kann.

The standards here in Canada have become much, much tighter with regard to insulation. Die Standards hier in Kanada sind viel, viel strenger geworden, was die Isolierung betrifft. In Japan we've noticed the same trends. In Japan haben wir die gleichen Trends festgestellt. I think the Scandinavians were probably the leaders for a long time and possibly Germany. Ich denke, die Skandinavier waren wahrscheinlich lange Zeit führend und möglicherweise Deutschland. But that's a general trend and I think that's going to continue. Aber das ist ein allgemeiner Trend und ich denke, das wird sich fortsetzen. Mark:    I mean I do know from when I was in Japan -- and it could have just been the houses that I was in -- there was not a lot of insulation. Mark: Ich meine, ich weiß, seit ich in Japan war – und es könnten nur die Häuser gewesen sein, in denen ich war – gab es nicht viel Isolierung.

Steve:    No.

Mark:    It's interesting the way…like in Japan they don't have central heating, they space heat. Mark: Es ist interessant, wie… wie in Japan haben sie keine Zentralheizung, sie beheizen den Raum. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    I know things may be changing there now. Mark: Ich weiß, dass sich die Dinge dort jetzt ändern könnten. But, at least where I was living, the house had no insulation and then you sort of heat up the room that you're in. Aber zumindest dort, wo ich wohnte, hatte das Haus keine Isolierung, und dann heizt man den Raum, in dem man sich befindet, irgendwie auf. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    And if you have more than two or three heaters going the circuit breaker would go. Mark: Und wenn mehr als zwei oder drei Heizungen in Betrieb sind, würde der Leistungsschalter ausfallen. Mark: En als je meer dan twee of drie verwarmingen hebt, gaat de stroomonderbreker. Марк: А если у вас работает более двух или трех нагревателей, автоматический выключатель сработает. So you can't heat the whole house, you can only heat where you are. Sie können also nicht das ganze Haus heizen, sondern nur dort, wo Sie gerade sind. But then the rest of the house isn't insulated, so that heat just dissipates very quickly. Aber dann ist der Rest des Hauses nicht isoliert, so dass die Wärme nur sehr schnell abgeführt wird. And I know that some Japanese people felt that it's a bit wasteful or feel that it's wasteful to heat the whole house if you're not using the whole house, but I've got to believe that the way we do it here is more efficient -- where we insulate the whole house, heat the whole house, but you don't lose nearly the same amount of heat, so you're more comfortable and more efficient. Und ich weiß, dass einige Japaner es für verschwenderisch hielten oder es für verschwenderisch hielten, das ganze Haus zu heizen, wenn man nicht das ganze Haus nutzt, aber ich muss glauben, dass die Art und Weise, wie wir es hier machen, effizienter ist -- wo wir das ganze Haus isolieren, das ganze Haus heizen, aber Sie verlieren nicht annähernd die gleiche Menge an Wärme, also fühlen Sie sich wohler und effizienter. Steve:    I mean if you have a very well-insulated house you use very little energy to keep that house warm. Steve: Ich meine, wenn Sie ein sehr gut isoliertes Haus haben, verbrauchen Sie sehr wenig Energie, um dieses Haus warm zu halten.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Also, if you have a poorly-insulated house and you are heating only one room, you have the possibility of creating serious problems with condensation, which (A) is uncomfortable, (B) could lead to mold, which is unhealthy and which can also cause structural damage to any of the building components. Steve: Auch wenn Sie ein schlecht isoliertes Haus haben und nur einen Raum heizen, besteht die Möglichkeit, dass Sie ernsthafte Probleme mit Kondensation haben, was (A) unangenehm ist, (B) zu Schimmel führen kann, was ungesund ist und was auch zu strukturellen Schäden an einem der Gebäudeteile führen kann.

And, of course, you were in Nikko. Und natürlich waren Sie bei Nikko. Nikko is near Tokyo, but it's a higher elevation, it's colder. Nikko liegt in der Nähe von Tokio, aber es ist höher gelegen, es ist kälter. It's cold there in the winter. Im Winter ist es dort kalt. Mark:    Oh, for sure.

Steve:    And, yet, somehow in Japan -- and this may have changed -- the coldest part of Japan, which is Hokkaido that's where you're the most comfortable in the winter, because that's where people build for the cold. Steve: Und doch, irgendwie ist es in Japan – und das hat sich vielleicht geändert – dem kältesten Teil Japans, Hokkaido, wo man sich im Winter am wohlsten fühlt, denn dort bauen die Leute für die Kälte. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    They know it's cold, so they have to build to stay warm. Steve: Sie wissen, dass es kalt ist, also müssen sie bauen, um warm zu bleiben. It's in those places where it's kind of not arctic cold, but it's still cold that they don't spend the money on insulation, they don't spend the money on proper windows, they don't put in central heating and they're uncomfortable. An den Orten, an denen es nicht arktisch kalt ist, aber immer noch kalt ist, geben sie das Geld nicht für die Isolierung aus, sie geben das Geld nicht für richtige Fenster aus, sie bauen keine Zentralheizung ein und sie sind es unbequem. So you're more comfortable in the winter in Hokkaido than you are in Tokyo. So fühlt man sich im Winter in Hokkaido wohler als in Tokio. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    But, anyway.

Mark:    Yeah.

No, I think that people just have to understand what's out there. Nein, ich denke, die Leute müssen einfach verstehen, was da draußen ist. And, I think, partly it's the builders in Japan. Und ich denke, teilweise sind es die Bauherren in Japan. Steve:    It's the builders. Steve: Es sind die Bauherren. Mark:    They don't provide the option. Mark: Sie bieten keine Option. So people don't know any better, that's what you get. Die Leute wissen es also nicht besser, das ist es, was Sie bekommen. But I think it's one of those things; over time it will change. Aber ich denke, es ist eines dieser Dinge; mit der Zeit wird es sich ändern. Steve:    I think all of these things are a function of an increasing demand, the increasing awareness. Steve: Ich denke, all diese Dinge sind eine Funktion der steigenden Nachfrage, des steigenden Bewusstseins. I remember when I lived in Japan there were a few builders that were starting to offer a very high-quality, well-insulated home, so that then provides some choice. Ich erinnere mich, als ich in Japan lebte, gab es ein paar Bauunternehmen, die anfingen, ein sehr hochwertiges, gut isoliertes Haus anzubieten, so dass man dann eine gewisse Auswahl hatte. Then people start demanding this of the other builders, but none of this happens overnight. Dann fangen die Leute an, dies von den anderen Bauherren zu fordern, aber nichts davon geschieht über Nacht. In any market there's a gradual changeover, just the way the American car or, at least, the Japanese car industry forced the American car industry to provide better-quality, better-engineered cars. Auf jedem Markt gibt es eine allmähliche Umstellung, genauso wie die amerikanische Autoindustrie oder zumindest die japanische Autoindustrie die amerikanische Autoindustrie gezwungen haben, qualitativ hochwertigere und besser konstruierte Autos anzubieten. So competition is a good thing. Wettbewerb ist also eine gute Sache.

Mark:    I mean it was no different when I was Italy in Asiago; we were pretty cold in those little concrete buildings. Mark: Ich meine, es war nicht anders, als ich Italien in Asiago war; Uns war ziemlich kalt in diesen kleinen Betongebäuden.

Steve:    Oh yeah.

Mark:    And that's up in the mountains, I mean that's a cold place too. Mark: Und das ist oben in den Bergen, ich meine, das ist auch ein kalter Ort. Steve:    Oh, I know, it's cold. Steve: Oh, ich weiß, es ist kalt. Well, even when we visited you in Klagenfurt. Na ja, auch als wir Sie in Klagenfurt besucht haben.

Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    There if you have a shower or if you cook there was water running off the walls in the whole apartment. Steve: Wenn man duschte oder kochte, lief in der ganzen Wohnung Wasser von den Wänden. Anyway, so we think that our wooden homes are pretty comfortable, but the people who come here from other countries think they're just shacks. Wie auch immer, wir denken, dass unsere Holzhäuser ziemlich gemütlich sind, aber die Leute, die aus anderen Ländern hierher kommen, denken, dass sie nur Hütten sind. So there's no arguing with culture. Über Kultur lässt sich also nicht streiten. Mark:    Well, I mean I think when they're inside they don't realize, necessarily, how they're built. Mark: Nun, ich meine, wenn sie drinnen sind, wissen sie nicht unbedingt, wie sie gebaut sind. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    It's only when you see a house being built where they think, oh boy, that doesn't look very sturdy. Mark: Nur wenn man sieht, wie ein Haus gebaut wird, denken sie, oh Junge, das sieht nicht sehr robust aus. Steve:    No.

Mark:    I mean once it's built and completed and the siding is on and the interior finish is on I mean to people it looks solid, feels solid. Mark: Ich meine, sobald es gebaut und fertiggestellt ist und die Außenverkleidung angebracht ist und die Innenverkleidung angebracht ist, meine ich, dass es für die Leute solide aussieht und sich solide anfühlt. Steve:    One of the things that really used to get to Japanese visitors was, here, most houses have a basement and so you use forming -- plywood, typically, sometimes boards, but mostly plywood as the form for the concrete. Steve: Eines der Dinge, die den japanischen Besuchern wirklich aufgefallen sind, war, dass hier die meisten Häuser einen Keller haben und Sie daher Formen verwenden – normalerweise Sperrholz, manchmal Bretter, aber meistens Sperrholz als Form für den Beton. Стив: Одна из вещей, которая раньше привлекала внимание японских посетителей, заключалась в том, что здесь у большинства домов есть подвал, и поэтому вы используете опалубку — обычно фанеру, иногда доски, но чаще всего фанеру в качестве формы для бетона. Alright?

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Once you've finished with forms, that plywood is then used on the walls to provide structural, basically, lateral strength to the building because you have rigidity. Steve: Sobald Sie mit den Formen fertig sind, wird dieses Sperrholz dann an den Wänden verwendet, um dem Gebäude strukturelle, im Grunde seitliche Festigkeit zu verleihen, weil Sie Steifigkeit haben. Стив: Как только вы закончили с формами, эта фанера затем используется на стенах, чтобы обеспечить структурную, в основном, поперечную прочность здания, потому что у вас есть жесткость. You have your posts and beams, if you want, and the posts are sometimes called studs because they're small, little posts spaced every, you know, 16 inches or 18 inches, whatever it may be. Sie haben Ihre Pfosten und Balken, wenn Sie wollen, und die Pfosten werden manchmal Stollen genannt, weil sie kleine, kleine Pfosten sind, die alle, wissen Sie, 16 Zoll oder 18 Zoll voneinander entfernt sind, was auch immer es sein mag. У вас есть свои столбы и балки, если хотите, и столбы иногда называют шпильками, потому что они маленькие, маленькие столбики, расположенные через каждые, ну вы знаете, 16 дюймов или 18 дюймов, что бы это ни было. So the lateral strength comes from the plywood, but of course the plywood now looks dirty because it was used for the concrete forming. Die Seitenfestigkeit kommt also vom Sperrholz, aber natürlich sieht das Sperrholz jetzt schmutzig aus, weil es zum Betonieren verwendet wurde.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    And the Japanese visitors say ah, we couldn't do that in Japan. Steve: Und die japanischen Besucher sagen, ah, das könnten wir in Japan nicht machen. I mean the customer would complain. Ich meine, der Kunde würde sich beschweren. But why would they possibly complain? Aber warum sollten sie sich beschweren? The fact that the structural plywood has a little bit of leftover, you know, grayish-looking bits of concrete has no affect on anything. Die Tatsache, dass das strukturelle Sperrholz ein wenig übrig geblieben ist, wissen Sie, grau aussehende Betonstücke, hat keinen Einfluss auf irgendetwas.

Mark:    No, exactly.

Steve:    But, there again, it's a cultural difference. Steve: Aber auch hier ist es ein kultureller Unterschied. The Japanese home buyer that's ordered this home wants every piece of wood to be absolutely clean and so they have these expectations, which people here don't have. Der japanische Hauskäufer, der dieses Haus bestellt hat, möchte, dass jedes Stück Holz absolut sauber ist, und deshalb hat er diese Erwartungen, die die Leute hier nicht haben. So these are some of the cultural differences. Das sind also einige der kulturellen Unterschiede.

Mark:    Otherwise, I mean…I'm trying to think in different countries what the differences here would be. Mark: Ansonsten, ich meine…ich versuche mir in verschiedenen Ländern vorzustellen, was die Unterschiede hier wären. Steve:    I think one of the interesting things is this whole issue of earthquakes. Steve: Ich denke, eines der interessanten Dinge ist dieses ganze Erdbebenproblem. A lot of countries that have earthquakes suffer a lot because they build with concrete and brick. Viele Länder, die Erdbeben haben, leiden sehr, weil sie mit Beton und Ziegeln bauen. That was the case in Italy. So war es in Italien. Italy is a very earthquake-prone country… Italien ist ein sehr erdbebengefährdetes Land…

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …and in certain areas in China as well. Steve: …und in bestimmten Gegenden in China auch. First of all, the walls themselves, unless they're properly reinforced, are weak and if you then have a heavy super structure, like the floors and the roof system are all made of concrete, it's pretty heavy when that comes falling down on you. Erstens sind die Wände selbst schwach, wenn sie nicht richtig verstärkt sind, und wenn Sie dann eine schwere Superstruktur haben, wie die Böden und das Dachsystem alle aus Beton bestehen, ist es ziemlich schwer, wenn das auf Sie herunterfällt . Mark:    Well, yeah.

Steve:    Whereas, you can design wooden homes to be very, very earthquake resistant with a lot of extra lateral support and cross bracing. Steve: Wohingegen man Holzhäuser so gestalten kann, dass sie sehr, sehr erdbebensicher sind, mit viel zusätzlicher seitlicher Unterstützung und Querverstrebungen. Plus, then the roof structure can be a lot lighter, you can use trusses rather than heavy beams. Außerdem kann die Dachkonstruktion viel leichter sein, Sie können Traversen anstelle von schweren Balken verwenden.

That's another thing, a heavy beam, a wooden, heavy, beam falling down on you is not too nice, but if you build with trusses, which are these sort of web construction of smaller pieces engineered to specific loads. Das ist eine andere Sache, ein schwerer Balken, ein schwerer Holzbalken, der auf Sie herunterfällt, ist nicht so schön, aber wenn Sie mit Fachwerken bauen, das sind diese Art von Netzkonstruktionen aus kleineren Stücken, die für bestimmte Lasten konstruiert sind. Whether they be snow loads or, you know, the kinds of stresses that would happen in an earthquake, I mean that's much better. Ob es sich um Schneelasten handelt oder um die Art von Belastungen, die bei einem Erdbeben auftreten würden, ich meine, das ist viel besser. I would love to see Italy and China start using more wood. Ich würde es begrüßen, wenn Italien und China anfangen würden, mehr Holz zu verwenden.

Mark:    Absolutely.

Steve:    So we're using this podcast here to promote wood around the world. Steve: Also nutzen wir diesen Podcast hier, um weltweit für Holz zu werben. Wood is renewable. Holz ist erneuerbar. Wood is healthy. Holz ist gesund. Wood is good. It's CO2 neutral. Es ist CO2-neutral. Come on there. Komm schon. Get out there and start using wood. Gehen Sie raus und fangen Sie an, Holz zu verwenden.

Mark:    I think that's probably a good place to finish off. Mark: Ich denke, das ist wahrscheinlich ein guter Ort, um abzuschließen. Mark: Ik denk dat dat waarschijnlijk een goede plek is om af te ronden. Steve:    Okay.

Mark:    Thanks very much for the suggestion Hiroko and we'll talk to you again soon. Mark: Vielen Dank für den Vorschlag Hiroko und wir werden bald wieder mit dir sprechen. Steve:    Thank you, bye-bye.