Is wanting to be a polyglot a misdirected dream?
I recently wrote an article on my blog discussing this and I wonder what you all think.
I browse language forums and read a few language blogs and it's clear that many people - although it's a niche - want to be a polyglots. I think it's easy to see the accomplishments of others and then want to do the same. However, it takes hard-work and dedication; something that polyglots have because of how much they love languages.
(I’m not saying that only polyglots work hard and have dedication, just that it comes easier to them because of their obsessive passion)
I've had the pleasure of interviewing a few polyglots and I've noticed that none of them planned to be polyglots. It just kinda happened.
Aiming to be a polyglot I think sets yourself up for failure; and can stop you from feeling proud of what you have accomplished.
What do you all think? Is wanting to be a polyglot a misdirected dream?
PS: you can read the article I wrote earlier here if you want.
I'm look forward to all your great responses!
ArubaHi David, I've read your post and your article with interest and it certainly gave me food for thought. "Becoming a polyglot" sounds like a lofty goal, but it's blood, sweat, and tears most of the time. Surely most of LingQ members probably do enjoy learning their languages, but as far as "polyglottery" is concerned, I believe that you are bound to begin to spread thin when you try to learn many languages at the same time. Toying with a nice sounding idea is one thing, living a certain lifestyle (connected with many important life choices) is another thing. Are you ready to devote some time every day to polish your language skills? Not only this month but for the rest of your life? I believe that with languages one thing is certain: if you don't make progress, you get worse. There's no standing in one place. If you don't want your language to ever get "rusty", you should have some contact with it for the rest of your life.
Another thing that comes to my mind is that very often we don't define our goals well enough. What does it mean to "be a polyglot"? Does it mean that I should achieve perfection in all of my languages or that I should just be able to get by? Maybe being able to introduce myself and count to 100 in Korean will satisfy me enough? Maybe I don't necessarily need to speak it "like a native speaker", as many of us strive to? These are only some of the questions every one of us should ask themselves and these are obviously only my thoughts. I'm curious to know other people's opinion.December 2011
AdministratorCanadaI think that the goal of learning to speak a number of languages well enough to communicate comfortably in them is a reasonable and even laudable goal. We can call people who achieve this goal polyglots or linguists or just say that they speak a number of languages. I find the word polyglottery a little grating and even unnecessary.December 2011
ArubaIn my opinion, in order to become like Steve, Alexander Arguelles, etc one needs to have a burning passion for languages that goes well beyond the interest level of a normal hobby linguist. In effect, you have to sign up for a tough bootcamp lifestyle as a Polyglocian monk. You may not literally live alone in a cell and have a spartan life - but one way or another you gotta sweat and toil day after day, week after frickin week!
I can't do it. Maybe I should own up to it with great shame, but I just can't do it.
It was different when I was younger. In fact, my strong advice to guys like David would be this: make the most of being in your 20s guys! Later on you may just find (like me) that you no longer have the energy and motivation to do it...December 2011
FranceJay, I had always thought you were younger than I am...
I quite agree with Steve on this issue. I know I will most likely not reach the C2 level in all the European languages I will study in the future. My goal is to reach C1-2 in at least 5-10 languages, B1-2 in most of the other ones and A2-B1 in the remaining ones.
I feel I haven't done enough in the latest couple of years. I would need to find a better discipline and to learn to manage my time better.December 2011
AdministratorCanadaYou do not need to be a monk. You put in an hour or so a day and strike up a relationship with a new language, putting in as much time as you want and getting out of the relationship whatever you put in. Right now I am having a fling with Czech after a 4 year steady relationship with Russian. My wife knows about these extra-marital relationships BTW. She does not mind since she plays piano and is a keen golfer.December 2011
Switzerland"Aiming to be a polyglot I think sets yourself up for failure; and can stop you from feeling proud of what you have accomplished."
you may have a point there, David. If, for some reason, one grows up with two languages, I think one has an advantage from the start.
I think there is a limit to the number of languages one can learn properly... I suppose it is somewhere between 4 and 10, depending which languages.
the maximum I know from conference interpreters (on interpreter level, passive language) is 7 in parallel. More is really, really tough... Could be achieved with a lot of similar passive languages...
If you want to keep a high level in all your languages, this requires quite some work, and at some point you cannot keep them on a high level at the same time...
Learning a language properly requires immersing oneself in the culture, reading books and newspapers, listening to radio, watching tv or movies, producing oral and written texts: it's not that easy...
Mike: I don't think you are lazy. there are only so many things you can do on a single day.
Perhaps you could have achieved more if you systematically moved from one country to the other every few months, but is this a life?December 2011
AdministratorCanadaHow many languages do we need to know and how well, in order to be considered a polyglot or linguist? The ability to be comfortable in two is enough in my view. I don't see any "setting oneself up for failure" unless we pursue perfection, which is very unwise in my view.December 2011
ArubaOf course there's no established number on how many languages it takes to be a polyglot and probably never will be. There are hundreds of threads concerning this one topic on various forums. To me, it's 'a handful' - somewhere around 5+ - and of course it's just my take on it.
I feel proud of what I've achieved but also, I am finished with that because I've got a burning desire to learn more. If only more people had this feeling in life! Basically, I don't worry too much about the psychology of what I want to do with languages. There's a deep appreciation for them which doesn't need to be explained or rationalised. A 'reasons list' have never been necessary for me. I just learn languages because I couldn't imagine not learning. That would be rather odd for me.
Being obsessed as I am with languages, and seeing the progress that I make, I've got no doubt that I can become fluent in at least a dozen, while having good passive skills in at least that many again. I can't see failure any more. It's just not realistic.
Steve...you and your unnecessary words... hahaDecember 2011
ModeratorCanadaFYI - polygon: "a plane figure with at least three straight sides and angles, and typically five or more."
Perhaps the same can be applied to the term "polyglot"?December 2011
ArubaAh, very well done, Alex. :DDecember 2011
AdministratorCanadaWell how many wives do we need to be a polygamist?December 2011
ModeratorCanadaAt least three and typically five or more, I guess. ;)December 2011
ArubaI don't know Steve, but I'd imagine that polyglottery is less work! :)December 2011
JapanBecoming proficient in a foreign language (say B2/C1) is a completely realistic goal for most people. After all, life is long, and even just 5 hours a week will go a long way if you have a few years and are learning a language not too dissimilar from your own.
If you mean polyglottery as demonstrated by Steve and others like him, then this is a different story.
But then again, let's look at Steve. He's in his 60s, so he's been at this a while. His best languages are Chinese, Japanese and French. Well, he went to university in France and lived in Japan for almost a decade while not working as an English teacher. And he had a year where he didn't have to work and was able to study Mandarin full-time.
After you learn one Latin language well, the others are a lot less work. So he has learned the other Romance languages. And, if I recall his story correctly, he spoke Swedish as a child, so that must have played a factor in relearning it. He also does business in Sweden, so has regular opportunities to use it. I don't know how he came to learn German, but if it was after learning Swedish, then that's an advantage too.
Plus, as native English speakers, we have a relatively easy road into both Latin and Germanic languages.
And we all know, I think, Steve's experience with Russian on LingQ.
So if you look at how long Steve's been at it, and the list of languages he's learned, and the places he's lived and done business in, his accomplishments become a lot more realistic, although of course still impressive.
Besides, being a polyglot is hard to define. If an English speaker is B2/C1 in all 4 major Latin languages, are they a polyglot? What if someone else has learned Chinese, Japanese, Arabic and Hungarian? Surely there's a difference.December 2011
JapanThere's no need to justify the things you want to do. If someone is inspired by the idea of speaking many languages, then that's great. Being a polyglot in and of itself doesn't inspire me. I like the feeling of getting better at something. I like turning everyday activities like watching TV and talking about the weather into more cognitively demanding activities.
And I work in the language education business, so there is a practical benefit to being functional in a number of foreign languages. To each his own.
Many people will start learning a language and then give up when they realize it takes time and requires effort. Most people fail at most things they try. Learning languages is no different.December 2011
Aruba@Imyirtseshem: "...I don't know Steve, but I'd imagine that polyglottery is less work! :)"
Well, there comes a point where duty ceases to be a chore, wouldn't ye say? :-D
(I forgot this is a family show - sorry!)December 2011
Australia"Many people will start learning a language and then give up when they realize it takes time and requires effort." -- I completely agree with this. The more people I talk to, the more I experience this. It can take years to get somewhere in a language, unless you're doing it 'full-time' and you know what you're doing. But even then it takes TIME.December 2011
ArubaAll 4 major Romance* languages? There are 5! French, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and Romanian! Although, that's counting by standard languages...
Thanks Rank. I wish I'd seen the more explicit message. :)December 2011
United StatesCatalonia and Catalan speakers would probably take issue with your definition of major Romance language. A language spoken by 27 million people in Romania or a language spoken by, sure, just 2 million people, but more importantly, over half of one of the most prosperous cities in Europe - Barcelona - probably has a pretty strong argument to be included in any major Romance language list.
I find that language learning has become such a parlor trick in the modern world - perhaps more so in my native country than in others. Few people still look at it as a tool any longer and when people can't see any greater return on investment (outside impressing monolingual people at a bar or reading a book in its untranslated form for example) in language learning than they might in learning some playing card magic trick, they aren't likely to pick the *harder* route and commit to learning a language to competency.
Like other posters on this thread have pointed out, those with the most success in learning languages found a way to utilize language for more than just entertaining themselves or others - whether its furthering a career in education or some other field, or communicating better with others, remembering that language is a tool above all else can help a great deal in achieving "polyglottery."
I'm not saying language learning can't just be driven by a desire to learn a language for the language's sake, but I think there's a lot more determination and personal drive required to stick with it when that is the primary reason the language is being learned.
JapanYes, Romanian is a Romance language, but it doesn't have the status or speakers of the other 4. Anyway, there's no point getting into an argument over what constitutes a major romance (or Latin) language. I suspect that no one was confused as to which four I was referring to. I'll have to run this by my Romanan friend though and see what he thinks :-)December 2011
ArubaBortrun, I only say Romanian because in linguistic discussions of Romance languages, Romanian is always mentioned. It's linguistic factors which make me want to include it in such a list.
Z33Dubyah, economic arguments mean absolutely nothing to me in the context of languages. :p Still, Catalan is great; I can't wait to learn it one of these days.
I think that when the desire is for the language's sake itself, the desire is much stronger than almost all other reasons. I wake up and start learning languages and only stop before going to bed. I have absolutely no 'reason' to learn languages. That's motivation! But, it seems to just come naturally and I don't need to force myself or anything like that. As it says on my profile: I'm obsessed. :)December 2011
JapanStudying foreign languages all day for no particular reason is certainly a fairly uncommon obsession. Is it just studying for studying's sake, or are you motivated by the thought of the people you'll be able to talk to, the books you'll be able to read, etc. ?December 2011
ArubaAll of that stuff comes later. That's all bonus motivation, and great stuff, but certainly not the initiator. The first thing is a deep love for languages. Even on a language learning site I'm a bit of an oddball! haha
Actually, It was in my childhood when I first fell in love with languages. Being partially raised by my Jewish great-grandparents I heard multiple languages daily, as they were very socially active and had a fairly wide circle of friends. Every day I would hear Yiddish (which I was initially able to understand and speak, but almost completely lost later one), Polish, Russian, English, German, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, bits of Hebrew and other various languages. Unfortunately, I moved away from there and lost not only the company of my deeply understanding and generous great-grandparents, but also the languages I loved so dearly - including loosing one of my mother tongues. The quest to recapture the 'mame-loshn' (mother-language in Yiddish) is something I've taken up recently and will not stop until I'm at a native level, once again. In my early 20s, I started listening to music in all sorts of languages, something which continues to this day, and I found my love once again after being separated from them for so long. There's no language I don't like; I see value in every single one. I'd love to spend the rest of my life with languages as my main activity. The passion burns in a manner which is hard to describe. At times I've felt like I just can't do it - that I can't learn languages - and I've said I'll quit and never try again. My wife reminds me, in these dark moments "You can't give up. You wouldn't allow yourself." She's absolutely right. Languages are the air that I breath.
There is a reason in all of that Bortrun. I love languages. That's why. :)December 2011
United StatesSorry to nitpick here, but I believe you meant "losing one of my mother tongues"December 2011
ArubaThen why nitpick? I'm afraid that that's a little interference from Dutch. Losing has the long vowel and loosing has the short vowel. Rather annoying...December 2011
ModeratorCanada@Imyirtseshem - That would throw me off like crazy!December 2011
United States"Then why nitpick?" So non native English readers of these posts can learn about this common mistake. Some people do not like having their grammar in forum posts corrected (especially if they are writing in their native language), some welcome it. I did not know whether you would welcome it or not, so I apologized in advance.December 2011
ArubaDutch spelling rules seem weird to begin with, but after a little while it becomes second nature. English is just screwed....
Odiernod, it's no big deal, really (I don't think my occasional mistakes and typos can compete with the 'Ow iz u?' crowd. haha)December 2011