How words change when together

I am doing a lot of reading a lot I mean minimum 2 hours everyday if not more, my question is how to the words change when together what I mean by this is I can pretty much understand the word on their own but when they are put with other words and I will highlight them all and see the Google Translation it comes up with almost completely answer? ( not always as I can sometimes guess the whole sentence which I am pretty happy about)

the little connectives like, Las, pero, tu, ambargo, a, una, for example

these little connectives I know what they mean individually but when put with another words it changes their meaning!

is this just a case of reading more and becoming more used with Spanish or is there something else I can do?

Muchas gracias

EXAMPLE

So upon doing some reading I have two examples but I am certain there are a lot more, “Como si se la” which translates to “as if it were” but the words on their own mean Como “AS” si “Whether” se “they” la “the” ( as whether they the )

second example

en la pared “on the wall”

En - “IN” la “THE” “Pared” Wall

how does the second sentences “en” changes to “on”?

I don’t know if it is because i need more known words or something as I am unsure as to how to go about this - sometimes you will get a sentences like “Donald trump es el presidente de los estados unidos” “Donald Trump is the president of the united states” when I read that in Spanish I understand it perfectly?! is is the stupid little connectives that confuse me!

I can come up with two ways. One is that when you find them is to save them as phrases and tag them. The other one is to search for lists and read them once in a while (I like it most probably don’t).

I would be careful using google translate. If you google the phrase you are probably going to get results for a “phrase dictionary” and if you are lucky with examples sentences. There are a few good online dictionaries that have loads of examples for these sort of situations.

One great dictionary that I use for this purpose is Wordreference. Take for example una. I typed it in and it shows una, uña (finger nail, because it amuses that it might be a typo), the verb unir (because the third person singular (subjunctive) is una), and lastly witch what you are looking for a plethora of phrases that uses the word una.

http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=una

It would be helpful if your examples were more specific and then people could help define them for you.

But in general, yes, some words mean different things in different contexts or as part of fixed phrases. This is true in all languages. Think about phrasal verbs in English, which are a nightmare for English learners. Think about turn on, turn off, turn around, turn in etc. What does turn mean in each of these phrasal verbs? By itself, turn has a meaning. But that meaning no longer applies when attached to a preposition to form a phrasal verb - turn in (i.e. go to bed) has nothing to do with physically turning anything.

I completely agree with the above response about LingQing phrases where possible. You don’t have to worry about the individual components of a fixed expression or phrase if you know the meaning of the phrase in its entirety.

I find listening a lot to the flow of the language helps me piece together the meaning of a lot of these kind of sentences. Phrases like ¨de vez en cuando¨ ¨a no ser de que¨ etc, for a lot of the time, the more I hear them in different contexts, it becomes quite obvious what they mean, There are quite a few that I still don´t know, and there are some that I needed to look up, but there are lists of these kinds of phrases online, I´m not a fan of memorising anything but I did memorise some of these as they kept cropping up, hindering my comprehension. It might be a help to memorise some of the more frequent ones you can´t get from the context.

There are lots of strange (to an English speaker) situations where words like ´con´ and ´al´ are used where we´d use a different word in English, For instance, We´d say I dreamt OF… whereas in Spanish they say ´I dreamt WITH…´ There are so many of these subtle differences that I think it´s just something you get used to. Sometimes I have no idea why a word is sitting in amongst certain sentences but I don´t worry about it anymore, I just accept that that´s how it´s said. You just can´t translate literally sometimes.

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So upon doing some reading I have two examples but I am certain there are a lot more, “Como si se la” which translates to “as if it were” but the words on their own mean Como “AS” si “Whether” se “they” la “the” ( as whether they the )

second example

en la pared “on the wall”

En - “IN” la “THE” “Pared” Wall

how does the second sentences “en” changes to “on”?

I don’t know if it is because i need more known words or something as I am unsure as to how to go about this - sometimes you will get a sentences like “Donald trump es el presidente de los estados unidos” “Donald Trump is the president of the united states” when I read that in Spanish I understand it perfectly?! is is the stupid little connectives that confuse me!

So upon doing some reading I have two examples but I am certain there are a lot more, “Como si se la” which translates to “as if it were” but the words on their own mean Como “AS” si “Whether” se “they” la “the” ( as whether they the )

second example

en la pared “on the wall”

En - “IN” la “THE” “Pared” Wall

how does the second sentences “en” changes to “on”?

I don’t know if it is because i need more known words or something as I am unsure as to how to go about this - sometimes you will get a sentences like “Donald trump es el presidente de los estados unidos” “Donald Trump is the president of the united states” when I read that in Spanish I understand it perfectly?! is is the stupid little connectives that confuse me!

So upon doing some reading I have two examples but I am certain there are a lot more, “Como si se la” which translates to “as if it were” but the words on their own mean Como “AS” si “Whether” se “they” la “the” ( as whether they the )

second example

en la pared “on the wall”

En - “IN” la “THE” “Pared” Wall

how does the second sentences “en” changes to “on”?

I don’t know if it is because i need more known words or something as I am unsure as to how to go about this - sometimes you will get a sentences like “Donald trump es el presidente de los estados unidos” “Donald Trump is the president of the united states” when I read that in Spanish I understand it perfectly?! is is the stupid little connectives that confuse me!

´En´ doesn´t just mean ´in´ it means ´on´ too, as does ´encima´ and ´sobre´ and probably a few other words. ´Se´ is a beast of a word, it certainly doesn´t just mean ´they.´ You could probably write a book about it and you still wouldn´t cover everything. It´s still kicking my ass after 4 years of study, but I get more and more used to it the more I study.

Here´s a funny video about ´se´ SE in Spanish A Fun Look at its Many Uses LightSpeed Spanish - YouTube

As I said, you can´t translate everything directly into English, languages just don´t work like that, no matter how much we wish they did lol. If it was like that there would be a lot more people speaking a lot more languages.

My advice would be don´t stress over it, just try to accept that this is the way they say it and that´s it. English has many strange oddities too, it´s just we don´t notice them, to us they are normal. Try not to start resenting the language, it can be easy to fall down that trap, it´ll just make it more difficult to learn. First and foremost understand the message, and then try to embrace the strangeness! :slight_smile:

Thanks man! I am just getting annoyed and yeah where this is my first foreign language I do keep comparing it to English as this is all I know! I will continue learning new words and hopefully it will just click! I will reach 4000 known words by the weekend!

“Se” never means “they”. It may be used in a few different ways, but usually it means “to him/her/them”
Realize that, instead of “whether” you can say “if”, so “como si” is “as if”,same expression as in English.
“En” indicates a place, without specifying exactly whether it’s “in” or “on”.

My advice: languages differ in structure and ways to refer to objects, persons and situations.
Don’t expect to find an exact word-by-word correspondance between Spanish and English. It just doesn’t work that way. Accept that it’s differnt, accept feeling confused, accept that you won’t be able to understand everything for a long time.

Your task here on Lingq is to try and “decipher” texts and audio tracks. Consider that you’ve found an inscription in a strange language. You have very little info on the language but you do have a tool: a dictionary that gives you some hints on what the individual words might mean. Your mission is to use that info to understand what the text is about. The clearer the understanding you can get, the better but you have to expect some degree of uncertainty. This takes some creativity and a fair amount of guesswork:
Hey, this “en” has something to do with being “in a place” and “pared” is a wall, it must be something about being “on a wall”, funny way to express this.
Notice: you care about the text, the information it contains, not about the language, which is mostly a nuisance, an obstacle in your way to comprehension. As a matter of fact, as soon as you can, do get texts/audio you’re really interested about. That would help to get the task done.

Funny thing is, as you try again and again to “decipher” those texts, it gets easier and easier and, eventually they will become “transparent”, as easy to understand as if they were written in English, you’re “acquiring” the language as you go.

Good luck!

Thanks for your reply so do you just recommend that I continue with my reading and slowly but surely building my understanding of the language while learning new vocabulary?

Yes, that’s the only strategy that works in the long term. In the meantime, to answer the question in your other thread, having a look at some grammar info won’t hurt. Take it as a “road map” of the issues you’ll eventually have to come to grips with. Many people (myself included) find it helpful to know what lies ahead.

Yes, that’s the only strategy that works in the long term. In the meantime, to answer the question in your other thread, having a look at some grammar info won’t hurt. Take it as a “road map” of the issues you’ll eventually have to come to grips with. Many people (myself included) find it helpful to know what lies ahead.

As I said, this issue is essentially a matter of getting used to the language. Pay attention to what’s different (you’re doing a great job of that) and keep an open mind about it, expect to be surprised and even freaked out time and again. It’s part of the fun.

However, let me expand about some of the difficulties you’ve mentioned because I think this topic makes for interesting conversation and hopefully it can help you get used to the differences between languages. My excuses if it’s too long/boring. Feel free to skip it. The most important part is highlighted at the end (“FINAL NOTE”).

Let me focus on one of your examples “en la pared” = “on the wall”
En/on are prepositions (one category of the pesky connectives that make trouble for you and other learners).
As a native speaker you have a clear mental image of when “in” and “on” are to be used. So much so that you think you know what they “mean”. However, I’d argue that this is mostly an illusion. Prepositions don’t have meaning, at least the same way that nouns such as “table” or “chaiir” have.
Examples: you live in a country, but work on a farm, you commute in a car but on a bus, in case, but on condition, …
You may argue that these are edge cases or metaphors or that there’s a logical/historical explanation to prefer one or the other but the fact remains that you can’t predict which preposition to use from the common mental picture of a book on a table vs. a book in a box.
Ok, but at least when talking about position (the “main” meaning), it’s clear that some things are on a place and some are in another; and it might eventually be confusing if, say, someone hid a painting inside a wall. If you say “en la pared” people would assume it was on the wall, hanging from it, when it’s really “in” right? What do speakers of Spanish would say then?
“Well, the Spanish speaker would tell you. That would be a strange situation, right. 99% of your paintings are on the wall. In suc a strange case we’d go out of our way to say that el cuadro está dentro de la pared. The fact that we’re unusually precise about the position stresses the fact that this is an unusual situation. In English, you’d be very tempted to say that the painting is inside the wall, not simply “in”, even if the meaning’s the same, so there’s not such a big difference”

Fair enough, you think, but the fact remains that using “in” and “on” gives a “clearer”, “more specific” picture that potentially (if not in practice) may dispell misunderstandings. I do understand and accept Spanish “lazy” approach and I see that it works in practice but insisting on being as precise as possible in all cases has a value in and of itself, right?

Now, fast forward to a different case: a German speaker learns English on Lingq. Strangely enough for the times, s/he had no previous contact with the language. That person goes on to read some sentences. S/he encounters “in the box”, well, English “in” is German “in”. Wow! That was easy. Then a book’s on a table. On the table, oh, on is “auf”, ok, Das Buch liegt auf dem Tisch. Nice!
Then, a painting’s on the wall. What? On the wall? Auf der Wand? That sounds odd. Let me get that into Google translator: “On the wall” = “An der Wand”. Hey! How did “on” change from “auf” to “an” !!! Oh, my1
Because it so happens that German makes a point of distinguishing between things that rest on surfaces and things that hang from them, lying flush next to them vertically.
The German speaker’s quite bemused, s/he tells you: “But, say that you’re thinking about a wall outside a house, a city wall or a wall in a half demolished building with no roof. The painting could be placed on top of the wall, not hanging from it, if you say “on” the wall, it’s not clear what you mean. This is way worse than in Spanish! At least there you know that “en” is a general, “vague” preposition for place. In English you pretend to be precise and then go on to use the “on” prepositon in an ambiguous way which is, arguably, the opposite of its general meaning. After all. A book standing on top of wall with no roof on it is more similar to the “book on the table” picture than a painting hanging from the wall”.
You might feel strange listening to this idea because you do appreciate the difference and you do favor precise prepositions, after struggling with the lazy Spanish “en” but you’ve been speaking English for a couple decades and never had any problem with your ambiguous, self-contradictory “on” and it had never occurred to you to ask whether “on” meant “on top of” or “hanging from” and you’d never felt like you lacked info.

The takeaway is: Different languages have different criteria to decide what information to state and what to imply in different situations. Native speakers feel that their language displays the “natural” categorization but it’s really completely arbitrary. After all I’m (almost, not quite) certain that no natural language has a nice, two-letter preposition or case ending for “a painting nailed diagonally across a wall but whose left lower corner protrudes, so as to partially obscure the door frame”

One last but very important point for you, as a Spanish learner. Don’t let these examples mislead you into believing that Spanish makes less distinctions than English. You’ll find that you’ll get used very soon to the “en la pared” and similar cases, the real struggle happens in the opposite cases: when Spanish speaker insist on stressing differences that the English language usually takes for granted and just skips unless in special cases".
Spanish considers that being a particular kind of being (belonging in a category) is very different from being located in a particular place, so that each situation deserves its own simple, common everyday verb. In English, you are a New Zealander and you also are in the park. That doesn’t make sense in Spanish. Tú eres un neozelandés pero estás en el parque. And taking it a step further, it’s not the same to be a happy person, that is content with his/her way of life (similar to being a New Zealnder) than being momentarily happy for something that just occurred (being in a happy state, similar to being in the park): ¿Eres feliz o estás feliz?
Spanish also has different tenses for when you used to do something or did it repeatedly or for a stretched period of time vs. when you did it at once, in a go and was done with it, and so on.
When you find out about these cases, you’ll feel the opposite to the “en la pared” case: “This is really splitting hairs, what’s the point of stressing this info? Trust me as a speaker to bring it up when it’s necessary but don’t torture me to think about all that everytime I open my mouth”.

FINAL NOTE:
These are only some examples of how languages differ from one another, there’s much more. I know, it sounds overwhelming, impossible. All language learners (even those of us who have already learned other foreign languages) often feel that it’s an impossible task. Just remember:
It is possible. Your brain’s hard wired to learn strange and completely different ways to make sense of the world. Just give it a chance. Feed it all that strangeness without too much second guessing and go on and on. Sooner than you think, everything will feel natural.

Again, good luck!

I have just read your massive reply for about 15 minuets! thanks for going into so much detail! your English is better than mine and me being a native speaker! I do hope that within time i will just “get it” but we shall we I will do as we discussed above keep reading learning new words and just keep exposing myself to the language.

Muchas Gracias!!

I might have some consoling words for you, it just so happens that I have been going through something similar with German. I began to study German somewhere around autumn 2011 (I think), I had started studying Spanish in 2009 and French the year after. I was in high spirits, I was among the top in my Spanish and French class. I thought it would be “smooth sailing with a few briskly winds”, well it didn’t pan out like that, the course book was absolutely appalling, there wasn’t really the same sort of chemistry between my teacher (as with my French and Spanish teacher), and to top it off what was supposed to be a beginner’s class (absolute beginners) became more of a repetition class.

I genuinely wanted to succeed in learning German I liked the sound of it language and imagined myself traveling around Germany, Austria and the edges of central European states speaking German. Anyway, I decided that I would put German on hiatus for a while and focus on Spanish and French. After few years of consolidating my French and Spanish, around December 2015, I decided that I would give German a year. To give it a year and see if I make any progress, I started by learning words not really caring about grammar.

For me the cases and adjective declensions has always been by weak point. So, I decided to concentrate on verbs and prepositions. I started to make tangible progress slowly but surely. At the end of the year I decided that I would continue with my studies for maybe a year. I have moved towards grammar (something I passionately love) and in the last week of so some things have started to make sense that at times it seemed as if I will never comprehend. There have been at least two occasions during this year and a half, adventure into the German language that I really felt anguished and debated whether it would be better to just give in. I think it had more to do with general exhaustion than anything else because looking back most of the time have still been enjoyable.

Conclusion: My interpretation of the moral of this story is that it takes a long time before we see fruits of our labour but if we enjoy what we are doing and believe that we will succeed, be will at last succeed. What got me through the darkest hours of my despair were the knowledge that I have had these sorts of doubts before and I just need to soldier on.