Personally don't recommend this course
All the dialogues are way too unrealistic and unnatural. As a native speaker I bet there won't be a single normal Chinese adult speaks like that.

The way they teach Chinese is like teaching spoken English like this:

"Gooo deee Morrr ninnng", instead of "Good Morning"!
February 2010
  • [[RQ]] 2601 2598 3006
    What lessons here would you recommend?
    February 2010
  • Administrator
    steve 55458 2826 92309
    I think it is great to get feedback on the content in our library. Thanks.
    February 2010
  • Shigeharu 28542 13060 31
    我的老师说,应该慢点儿开始练习这样的句子。
    听了这些句子,我觉得舒服。
    你是不是觉得这么慢点二说美极了?
    February 2010
  • Shigeharu 28542 13060 31
    真抱歉,我 写错了。
    慢点二--〉〉慢点儿
    February 2010
  • but it's not just slowing down. It's more like breaking down the coherence, including tones that makes a phrase a joint whole. For example, it's like when you get used to the way of pronouncing "Gooo deee Morrr ninnng", probably it will take much time than it ought to be to sound like a "pro", since " Good morning" might already seem to be a complete different phrase now.
    February 2010
  • Shigeharu 28542 13060 31
    我 没有 明白 这 个 地方 “It's more like breaking down the coherence, including tones that makes a phrase a joint whole.” 有点儿 难 啊!

    虽然 查 了 词典, 还 没 清楚。可能 breaking down 的 意思 是 (动词 的 现在分词)崩壊, coherence (名词)首尾一貫(性) joint (形容词)共同 whole (名词)全体,是 吗?

    不过,我 觉得 第 一 次 学习 汉语 的 时候 听 这 些 句子 是 一 个 方法。
    我 在 音乐院 学习 萨克斯 的 时候,因为 我 演奏 得 不 好 所以 我 的 老师 常 常 说,每天 因该 慢 慢 地 练习 些 练习曲 和 协奏曲 什么的。
    听说 汉语 发音 尤其 声调 对 外国人 有点儿 难。
    虽然 这样 汉语 不 自然,但是 开始 学习 的 时候 应该 听 这样 的 发音。

    真 抱歉,我 写 了 汉语, 不过 我 的 汉语 还 差 的 远 呢。
    February 2010
  • 首先, 你的汉语说的很好啊。 语言就是要多说多练才能够提高。 何况即使是母语,有些人也掌握的不好,还需要不断学习,充实自己。所以请相信作为第二语言学习者,自己已经是很棒的了!=)

    其次,回到我的上个帖子。你的理解是大致正确的。 我再详细解释一下: 当我说"It's more like breaking down the coherence, including tones that makes a phrase a joint whole.",在这里 break down 是"打破,破坏,损毁“; coherence我用的不太好, 换成 consistency 或者 sense of wholeness 更加确切, 因为前者更强调内容上的连贯,而后者更体现我担心的语音语调上的整体感; joint是 "结合的" ,ie. united; whole 是 ”整体“。 因此,整句翻译大抵就是: "(这样的教法)反而更像是打破语言固有的连贯性,其中包括(破坏)使一个短语成为一个各部分相互结合的整体的语音语调。"

    再三,你的音乐老师说的很对。“九层之台,起于垒土”, 积少成多,由易到难,这是学习的必经之路。但我就问一个问题: 练习曲或协奏曲对于当时身为初学者的你来讲,会有"不自然"的感觉吗?

    The bottom line: As long as it's unnatural, like I just pointed out at the very first post here, it is doomed, no matter it's language or music or whatsoever. Imagine, if it's one way of doing sth at the beginning, how can you fix it up by applying a sheer different way when you almost treat the unnatural as the natural? It's too late to shift by then.

    Good luck, my friend.

    Elan
    February 2010
  • Administrator
    steve 55458 2826 92309
    The point is that we want a lot of content to allow people to choose what they like. We do not all like the same things. Elan, if you are a native speaker of Chinese, perhaps you could create some content for us.
    February 2010
  • Shigeharu 28542 13060 31
    This time, I am going to try to answer to you in English. That's my opinion. Even if it this lesson's pronunciation is unnatural (for native speakers), it is effective for beginners to produce the sound for the first time, exagerating the Chinese tones, but I also recommend not to listen again and agaig to such contents...
    February 2010
  • Shigeharu 28542 13060 31
    but I also recommend to beginners not to listen again and again to such contents...
    February 2010
  • Fine, never mind then. Just pour out my heart without too much thinking. Nor do I see me myself a pro with a bunch of lessons or teaching materials whatsoever. - eye roll-

    You win.

    To sum up, although there are sth I personally doubt about, this is overall an AWESOME course for beginners!!! Go for it!

    BTW @大岩君 (not sure if it's appropriate or not. No offense, for sure.), I do wish you well. And I mean it. =)
    @Steve, I am 100% willing to help out, but it seems like I'm kind of picky at myself so that probably I don't think uploading sth which could be totally misleading a good idea.. Anyway, the pleasure is mine. =] Thanks for your attention.
    February 2010
  • jeff_lindqvist 7272 25962 45441
    Although I think it's good to give the learner a chance to distinguish between the similar (and not so similar) sounds of a new languages, I don't think a lesson spoken unnaturally slowly is the best solution.
    February 2010
  • Shigeharu 28542 13060 31
    divingbell618,
    练习曲或协奏曲对于当时身为初学者的你来讲,会有"不自然"的感觉吗?

    这 个 句子 的 意思 还 不 清楚,真 抱歉,
    不过 慢 点儿 演奏 了 名曲 尤其 协奏曲 发现 了 各 曲 的 新 世界。 名曲(技术 要求 很 高 的 萨克斯 曲)在 很 快 的 音乐句子 里 好像 人们 在 唱歌,所以 快 点儿 演奏 的 时 在 心 里 好像 唱 歌。

    我 觉得 最 难 的 事 是 慢点儿 演奏 快 的 曲 演 得 很 好 的。

    慢点儿 说 得 清楚 跟 最 美 的 演奏 一样。

    听说 对 外国人而言 最 难 的 事 是 汉语 发音 尤其 声调 。 虽然 听说 这样 的汉语 句子 不 自然 (我 觉得 自然),但是 开始 学习 的 时候, 初学者 应该 听 这样 的 发音 就 会习惯这些 声调, 然后 可以听 各种 各样 的 会话。

    I am very sorry for not having answered divingbell618's question very well.
    February 2010
  • blindside70 2899 3970 4526
    Hey divingbell,

    As far helping out goes it's pretty easy. You don't even have to do boring beginner stuff, even just a short personal diary every week would be incredibly helpful to Chinese learners. Then writing it in traditional and simplified Chinese would also probably help.

    I personally agree with you to a certain extent, I don't think speaking super slowly in any language is great for the learner, however I do think that some people would want that kind of content, especially in a language where the tones are so important and it's difficult for our ears to hear them well.

    Anyway, welcome to Lingq! :)

    February 2010
  • junair 24354 0 3426
    for me as an absolute beginner in Chinese this dialog has been useful, although I understand that it is unnatural. And yet, it is good that there is all sorts of content on LingQ,
    February 2010
  • junair 24354 0 3426
    This collection is actually stuff from chinesepod.com which is a good web resource for learning Chinese at any level
    February 2010
  • Ozemite 2050 60 3530
    I wish I had known about this collection ((and the existence of LingQ) when I first started learning Chinese last year at 50! Most 'beginner' material I could find was too hard and too fast, and made me feel foolish. My brain couldn't hear the difference between say, 2nd and 4th tones, even though logically I knew that 2nd tone rose and 4th tone fell.

    Pimsleur was also useless in the beginning, since my brain couldn't distinguish exactly what it was that I was hearing, so I couldn't look up words.

    For some of us, if we mimic whole sentences without having a good understanding of each syllable first, then we learn to speak with poor pronunciation and tones.

    This collection is exactly what the absolute beginner needs!

    I have joined LingQ to supplement my university studies - and am especially looking forward to gaining conversational skills.


    March 2013
  • milestones 1294 26
    For English speaking Mandarin beginners, I highly recommend the (free) FSI Mandarin "resource module on pronunciation and romanization." This will systematically give the basics in order to proceed in Mandarin. Imo, this is by far the best way to start on tones and pronunciation. After going through this FSI module, then Pimsleur will be another great benefit because you start to hear the tones and pronunciation without relying on pinyin and tone marks (and you will understand what's going on). After that, then I think it's a good idea to start on vocabulary acquisition and listening to more rapid speech because, while you may able to say stuff at this point and be understood, it won't be enough to have a meaningful conversation (and one probably will still sound fairly robotic and listening comprehension will probably still be at a low level). I find beginner course dialogue like the one above -- ni hao ma? -- wo hen hao -- as an unproductive way to get started because I think better to focus just on the tones and the pronunciation before moving on to even basic communication. After going through the FSI module and Pimsleur (1, & 2 if one wants -- I did all 3 but that's overkill), one should then be able to understand basic sentences at close to natural speed and heavily slowed down textbook dialogues like the one above will be unnecessary.
    March 2013
  • Administrator
    steve 55458 2826 92309
    I recommend learning from dialogues, from context. Tones improve gradually over time. They cannot be learned up front. Every new word we learn has a tone that we have to get used to. with enough input and attention and listening to interesting content and interaction in the language,we gradually improve, in my view.
    March 2013
  • Administrator
    steve 55458 2826 92309
    People have different tastes when it comes to learning materials. I dislike the FSI material because it is simply too boring. I find the Chinesepod material excellent for beginners. In fact any kind of simple dialogue works for beginners. However drilling pronunciation as milestones recommends is not how I like to learn.

    I am sure milestones did not intend to criticize any of our lessons or lesson providers. Still, it is wise not to be overly dogmatic in recommending lessons, nor can we assume that everyone will like or benefit from the same kind of material.

    I note that the Chinese natve speaker who started this thread has not created any content for us. Thank you Hape and others for all the content you have provided.
    March 2013
  • milestones 1294 26
    There are times when I offer opinions/recommendations I can come across a bit...dogmatic. I forgot to add -- the FSI module and Pimsleur route is what I think is a good idea for people who need to start saying stuff right away. I agree with Steve that the FSI stuff is dated and really dry. I was not suggesting the whole course but the pronunciation and romanization module (not overwhelming in time duration), which I started on before I moved to China and enabled me to communicate with people & say "thank you" without saying shay shay. It made me aware of the the x, c, j and ch/sh,r sounds, which I think was good at least to be aware of, even if I was not getting them spot on. I think the listening, reading (Linqq) approach is absolutely the best for elementary learners onward...I think with Mandarin though, there is a sort of pre-elementary phase that exists that involves getting used to sounds/tones before getting to the meaning. However, for those who want to listen and absorb before speaking, they probably will get to the same result and figure out how sounds are made by way of listening. For me, I was curious how native speakers could possibly say what they said, because it sounded so alien to me and I wanted to know how they went about making those sounds. However, some people view it as..."I will figure it out in time," and, eventually, they will...through listening. For me, I wanted to get the technical aspects out of the way so as to communicate for survival purposes -- which was necessary based on my situation. Thus, I appreciated that FSI module for that reason.
    March 2013
  • I started learning Chinese on lingq with damn simple Chinese, and I think it was a good starting point. When I had learned the words and gotten bored with it, I moved on to other lessons. Isn't that what you're supposed to do on lingq?
    March 2013
  • Administrator
    steve 55458 2826 92309
    Yes absolutely!
    March 2013
  • I really like this as a beginner because just going over the sounds out of context is boring, and I've watched a few chinese movies (Kung Fu and Jackie Chan, go figure) to know how it's actually supposed to sound, so I can tell it's like they're trying to teach a baby to speak madarin, but regular speech is just too difficult to listen to and get the pronunciation at a beginners level.

    I'm doing the most recommended version in Russian and they he sounds slow, but to me it sounds faster than any conversation I've had with anybody, and this is supposed to be at the beginner level for somebody hearing words for the first time in a foreign writing system?

    Anyway, it's great to point out the pros and cons of things. I like to see feedback from other users.
    July 2014
  • scoreperfect 9966 12787 475
    The way they teach Chinese is like teaching spoken English like this:
    "Gooo deee Morrr ninnng", instead of "Good Morning"!

    So then a good solution might be for the native speaker to repeat the phrase slow to fast....so:

    Native Chinese speaker (in Chinese of course):
    "Gooo deee Morrr ninnng",
    Goood morrninnng"
    Good morning

    In other words, repeated slowly at first, then faster, and finally up to normal speed in the native tongue. So the last thing the listener hears is the actual native pronunciation at a natural conversational speed.

    祝好运

    Daniel Léo Simpson
    Composer
    San Francisco
    July 2014
  • iaing 27678
    "I like to see feedback from other users."

    -don't pay too much attention to a native speaker complaining about content

    -pay attention to feedback from non-native learners who have used content, recommended it, and gone on to a good level

    -this is 30 or so Chinesepod level 1 lessons strung together in one course, it is a very small fraction of what is, overall, an excellent resource

    - cpod has taught a whole generation of foreigners mandarin -- better than any other provider. Period.

    - people can criticise cpod (and even I do) - but they should also be aware that there is no better place to begin mandarin

    -Lingq thread - "How do I start Chinese?" my response: http://www.lingq.com/forum/46/17367/?page=1#pos...
    July 2014