Референдум на востоке Украины (The referendum in the East of Ukraine)
evgueny40 69524 5560 13465
It could be interesting for the people who worry about the tragic events in Ukraine to read my new article about today's referendum in the East of Ukraine and about the nationalism that caused the most of the tragic events in this country during last 4 months.
Here is the link:
http://www.lingq.com/learn/ru/store/91811/39896...
May 2014
  • Administrator
    steve 2834 55534 92338
    from Twitter

    Paul Ronzheimer ‏@ronzheimer 3h
    Wahlbetrug! Sind mit Mann unterwegs, w Zeuge wie er 8 (!) Mal an versch Stationen in Donezk abgestimmt hat. Mehr später bei @BILD #ukraine

    Kind of says it all.
    May 2014
  • evgueny40 69524 5560 13465
    They are killed, they are arrested, but they are voting!..
    And so many happy faces in Lugansk and Donezk today!
    I doubt a lot, my western friends, that you will see so many happy faces by the voting in Kiev on 25 May.
    May 2014
  • dooo 21 9383 2269
    yes, they are voting... early and often
    May 2014
  • Administrator
    steve 2834 55534 92338
    Things are tough for Ukraine right now, and the Kiev government has an uphill struggle to convince a majority of its citizens, in all areas of the country that the dysfunctional corrupt governing system of the last 23 years can be reformed, especially since many of those in power in Kiev now were part of the governments of the past.

    However, the desire for change is very strong, as evidenced on the Maidan where up to 500,000 people took part in demonstrations, and in a more violent form with the armed insurrections in the East. I hope the Ukrainians are able to overcome their problems.

    Today's referendum is only one small piece of the puzzle, one step along the road to a new Ukraine.
    May 2014
  • sdom 17292 3020 12475
    @Bautov:
    Good work.

    Such things don`t appear in stopfake.org.... because they are not matching a mainstream western propaganda.
    May 2014
  • there isn't a particular western propaganda, there is somehow historically formed view on Russia as a thread, which (view) almost impossible to get rid of. Eventually, it will lead to the Russia's rapprochement with China, India and East Asian countries, what is maybe very economically profitable, but we have nothing in common with them culturally, and that's a big concern.
    May 2014
  • edwin 109 12588 6126
    Bautov: Eventually, it will lead to the Russia's rapprochement with China, India and East Asian countries, ...

    I agree. The West's isolation with Russia only accelerate the corporation between Russia and China. I heard that some economists are predicting that China will overtake US as the largest economy in the world before 2014 ends.

    BTW, Putin is visiting China soon to sign some big deals. Obama is stupid enough to skip China in his last visit.
    May 2014
  • sdom 17292 3020 12475
    @Bautov: "there isn't a particular western propaganda, there is somehow historically formed view on Russia as a thread"

    I agree that Russia looks like a thread to West. But massive anti-Russian propaganda takes place.
    Remember just about foolish-looking "news" about wolves (!) walking in the Sochi`s hotel before Olimpic games. After that would-be-normal "Westerners" reffer to it as a fact.
    May 2014
  • @ dooo

    In short: for 100 000 ballots you need 20 boxed as in the picture in that article. It weights 250 kg. Plus weapons and other stuff what was found.
    May 2014
  • dooo 21 9383 2269
    Thanks. I guess the Kyiv Post is not to be trusted
    May 2014
  • Moderator
    Ress 32959 702 12941
    "May I ask a Russian speaker to explian Bautov's link?
    http://vesti.ua/donbass/51024-pod-slavjanskom-z...
    "
    100 000 voting papers were found in a small car Daewoo Lanos. They told these papers already had their votes for the independence of the East of Ukraine before the referendum.
    The end of the article shows how much boxes of paper should be (20 instead of 5) to contain 100 thousand sheets of paper, the sum weight should be 250 kg what is too much for the small car and 3 men with Kalashnikovs.
    May 2014
  • Moderator
    Ress 32959 702 12941
    I guess the both sides are not to be trusted.

    à la guerre comme à la guerre (all's fair in love and war)

    It's a pity Russia supports the war :(
    It's a pity a part of Ukraine don't want to wait for the presidential elections.
    May 2014
  • @ edwin
    He managed not just to skip China, but to sign a security agreement with Philippines almost on the same day as Japan and NATO signed a partnership agreement.
    May 2014
  • dooo 21 9383 2269
    Interesting article in Christian Science Monitor about events in Ukraine and parallels in Vietnam

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/the-monitor...

    "Russia would think very hard before taking parts of Poland or the Baltic states, which are secure as democracies within NATO. And while Chinese maritime forces harass islands claimed by Japan and the Philippines, Beijing knows these democracies are part of a string of alliances around Asia backed by American power. For China, Vietnam remains the easiest pickings.

    The strength of security pacts among democracies is not mainly in their warships and fighter jets. As President Obama stated in a 2011 swing through Asia, “the ultimate source of power and legitimacy [is] the will of the people.” That was the key lesson of World Wars I and II, and the cold war, but one not yet absorbed by many countries."
    May 2014
  • dooo 21 9383 2269

    French language article citing Bild am Sontag (Sunday Bild) claiming 400 American mercenaries from private security company, Academi (formerly called Blackwater) are fighting alongside anti-seperatist guerillas

    http://www.dhnet.be/dernieres-depeches/afp/ukra...

    Old blackwater, keeps on rolling....
    May 2014
  • Administrator
    steve 2834 55534 92338
    1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000 false ballots, who cares. The whole referendum process is so irregular, that these are mere details. But writing off the referendum as illegal misses the point . The fact is that there are a lot of people in Eastern Ukraine who are unhappy with the state of affairs in Ukraine. They mostly don't know what they voted for, federalism, autonomy, independence, joining Russia or what? But they know they don't like the way they have been governed, and they don't like the present government, thanks in good measure to Russian propaganda.

    The Kiev government needs to sit down with these people and talk, even with those carrying automatic weapons whom they call separatists and terrorists and bandits. Most Ukrainian politicians that I have seen on television just talk and don't listen. I think the government needs to listen and find some common ground.

    One symbolic step would be to make Russian an official language. I have said from the beginning that the Ukrainian speakers cannot impose their language on the Russian speakers as the only legitimate representative national language. Ukraine is mostly a bilingual and therefore bicultural country, Ukrainian and Russian. This should be source of pride and advantage for all Ukrainians.

    It is obvious that the country is moving towards more regional self-government. Everyone talks about it. They just need to find the right formula.

    The less Russia is involved in this process, cajoling and prodding from the sidelines, or vilifying the Kiev government, the more likely that the Ukrainians will find some opportunity for compromise. Whether Russia wants them to find this common ground is another question.
    May 2014
  • Prinz_Skogsvin 6511 13 0
    @Steve: "...The Kiev government needs to sit down with these people and talk, even with those carrying automatic weapons whom they call separatists and terrorists and bandits..."
    ---

    I agree. There is a certain hutzpah, in my opinion, on the part of the Kiev "government" in calling people "terrorists" and "bandits". They themselves came to power in a wholly illegal way, mostly through extreme violence and disorder.

    Nevertheless, as the late Bob Hoskins used to say in BT ads: "it's good to talk". These folks need to negotiate.

    ---
    @Steve: "...It is obvious that the country is moving towards more regional self-government. Everyone talks about it. They just need to find the right formula..."
    ---

    Yes. In other words, what they need to do is what Putin called for in the first place: regional autonomy in the East of Ukraine.
    May 2014
  • Moderator
    Ress 32959 702 12941
    http://zn.ua/UKRAINE/za-prisoedinenie-k-rossii-...

    The article says that is was about 30% citizens of Crimea who came to the referendum, a half of them has voted to be a part of Russia.

    Of course, nobody knows the real results. As we know in Belarus, it's not important how we vote, it's more important how they calculate the votes. The Belarusian methods of "calculating the results" are used in Russia, too.
    May 2014
  • sauliokas 10284 12366 107
    @Ress
    Of course, nobody knows the real results.
    But everyone knows that the first mention of the 97% who wanted to join Russia, is nonsense.
    May 2014
  • Moderator
    Ress 32959 702 12941
    by the way...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandu...

    According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

    1. Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
    ...
    May 2014
  • Administrator
    steve 2834 55534 92338
    One of the obstacles that has prevented the Ukraine government from moving in the direction of federalization or official status for Russian is precisely the fact that these policies are championed by Russia.

    Russia has positioned itself as an aggressor against the Ukrainian state, seizing territory and lying about the participation of its own troops, fanning false hopes and dissension amongst Russian speakers with a hate campaign against the Kiev government, and encouraging, or at the very least not discouraging Russian nationalist adventurers and weapons from flowing into Ukraine to destabilize the situation. The less Russia and Russians are involved in the Ukrainian situation, the more likely a peaceful resolution.


    May 2014
  • Prinz_Skogsvin 6511 13 0
    For sure it would be better if the Ukrainians could sort out the situation entirely amongst themselves. But I believe it was the West (specifically the EU) which started external interference and meddling in Ukrainian affairs. The reaction from the Russians should have been entirely predictable. From their point of view it is entirely rational to assert their position, if the West is going to start fomenting violent disorder and regime-change in Kiev.

    What is good for the goose is good for the gander, in my opinion.
    May 2014
  • sauliokas 10284 12366 107
    By the way,

    how many topics will be opened on the same theme? I would prefer that there would be a place for language learning, rather than some propaganda spread place.
    Those lessons from evgueny40, with screaming headlines, with the view of only one point sounds like propaganda that there should not be.
    May 2014
  • lynxdaftpunk 6450 164 6969
    "By the way,

    how many topics will be opened on the same theme? I would prefer that there would be a place for language learning, rather than some propaganda spread place.
    Those lessons from evgueny40, with screaming headlines, with the view of only one point sounds like propaganda that there should not be."

    It is propaganda, don't think that all Russians believe in 'bad Ukrainian nationalists' and Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens who want to be liberated. It's all Putin's scheming, typical KGB methods. And I'm ashamed that so many educated and respected Russian people believe in that kind of disgusting propaganda.
    May 2014
  • evgueny40 69524 5560 13465
    @Saulikos
    I'm now in my holiday in Israel, so it's difficult for me to react all my opponents.
    But I have only to say: you have one opinion, I have another. It doesn't mean that my or your opinion is right and another is
    propaganda' - everyone can have differerent opinions. and there are different opinions also among the Russians.
    The vivid polemic shows that there is a big interest among the Lingq members to this topic.
    But of course not all people are intersted in politics,for example -my wife has no interest,so she just doesn't read or listen to the political news.
    BTW, among my donations to Lingq the political aricles take maybe 10% of all, and 90% are devoted to the language study and to the cultural issues.
    May 2014