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Import TED, Why renewables can’t save the planet | Michael Shellenberger | TEDxDanubia

Why renewables can't save the planet | Michael Shellenberger | TEDxDanubia

Translator: Amanda Chu Reviewer: Peter van de Ven

Thank you very much.

When I was a boy,

my parents would sometimes take me camping in California.

We would camp in the beaches, in the forests, in the deserts.

Some people think the deserts are empty of life,

but my parents taught me to see the wildlife all around us,

the hawks, the eagles, the tortoises.

One time when we were setting up camp,

we found a baby scorpion with its stinger out,

and I remember thinking how cool it was

that something could be both so cute and also so dangerous.

After college, I moved to California,

and I started working on a number of environmental campaigns.

I got involved in helping to save the state's last ancient redwood forest

and blocking a proposed radioactive waste repository

set for the desert.

Shortly after I turned 30,

I decided I wanted to dedicate a significant amount of my life

to solving climate change.

I was worried that global warming would end up destroying

many of the natural environments that people had worked so hard to protect.

I thought the technical solutions were pretty straightforward -

solar panels on every roof, electric car in the driveway -

that the main obstacles were political.

And so I helped to organize a coalition

of the country's biggest labor unions and biggest environmental groups.

Our proposal was for a 300-billion-dollar investment in renewables.

And the idea was not only would we prevent climate change,

but we would also create millions of new jobs

in a very fast-growing high-tech sector.

Our efforts really paid off in 2007,

when then-presidential candidate Barack Obama embraced our vision.

And between 2009 and 2015, the US invested 150 billion dollars

in renewables and other kinds of clean tech.

But right away, we started to encounter some problems.

So first of all, the electricity from solar rooftops

ends up costing about twice as much as the electricity from solar farms.

And both solar farms and wind farms

require covering a pretty significant amount of land

with solar panels and wind turbines

and also building very big transmission lines

to bring all that electricity from the countryside into the city.

Both of those things were often very strongly resisted by local communities,

as well as by conservation biologists

who were concerned about the impacts on wild-bird species and other animals.

Now, there was a lot of other people

working on technical solutions at the time.

One of the big challenges, of course, is the intermittency of solar and wind.

They only generate electricity about 10 to 30 percent of the time

during most of year.

But some of the solutions being proposed

were to convert hydroelectric dams into gigantic batteries.

The idea was that when the sun was shining and the wind was blowing,

you would pump the water uphill, store it for later,

and then when you needed electricity, run it over the turbines.

In terms of wildlife, some of these problems

just didn't seem like a significant concern.

So when I learned that house cats kill billions of birds every year,

it put into perspective the hundreds of thousands of birds

that are killed by wind turbines.

It basically seemed to me at the time

that most, if not all, of the problems of scaling up solar and wind

could be solved through more technological innovation.

But as the years went by,

these problems persisted and, in many cases, grew worse.

So California is a state that's really committed to renewable energy,

but we still haven't converted many of our hydroelectric dams

into big batteries.

Some of the problems are just geographic;

it's just you have to have a very particular kind of formation

to be able to do that,

and even in those cases,

it's quite expensive to make those conversions.

Other challenges are just that there's other uses for water,

like irrigation,

and maybe the most significant problem

is just that in California the water in our rivers and reservoirs

is growing increasingly scarce and unreliable

due to climate change.

In terms of this issue of reliability, as a consequence of it,

we've actually had to stop the electricity

coming from the solar farms into the cities

because there's just been too much of it at times.

Or we've been starting to pay our neighboring states, like Arizona,

to take that solar electricity.

The alternative is to suffer from blowouts of the grid.

And it turns out that when it comes to birds and cats -

cats don't kill eagles; eagles kill cats.

What cats kill are the small common sparrows and jays and robins,

birds that are not endangered and not at risk of going extinct.

What do kill eagles and other big birds,

like this kite as well as owls and condors

and other threatened and endangered species,

are wind turbines;

in fact, they're one of the most significant threats

to those big bird species that we have.

We just haven't been introducing the airspace with many other objects

like we have wind turbines over the last several years.

And in terms of solar,

you know, building a solar farm is a lot like building any other kind of farm:

you have to clear the whole area of wildlife.

So this is a picture of one third of one of the biggest solar farms in California,

called Ivanpah.

In order to build this,

they had to clear the whole area of desert tortoises,

literally pulling desert tortoises and their babies out of burrows,

putting them on the back of pickup trucks, and transporting them to captivity,

where many of them ended up dying.

And the current estimates are that about 6,000 birds are killed every year,

actually catching on fire above the solar farm

and plunging to their deaths.

Over time, it gradually struck me

that there was really no amount of technological innovation

that was going to make the sun shine more regularly

or wind blow more reliably;

in fact, you could make solar panels cheaper,

and you could make wind turbines bigger,

but sunlight and wind are just really dilute fuels,

and in order to produce significant amounts of electricity,

you just have to cover a very large land mass with them.

In other words, all of the major problems with renewables aren't technical,

they're natural.

Well, dealing with all of this unreliability

and the big environmental impacts

obviously comes at a pretty high economic cost.

We've been hearing a lot

about how solar panels and wind turbines have come down in cost in recent years,

but that cost has been significantly outweighed

by just the challenges of integrating all of that unreliable power onto the grid.

Just take, for instance, what's happened in California.

At the period in which solar panels have come down in price

very significantly, same with wind,

we've seen our electricity prices go up

five times more than the rest of the country.

And it's not unique to us.

You can see the same phenomenon happened in Germany,

which is really the world's leader

in solar, wind and other renewable technologies.

Their prices increased 50 percent during their big renewable-energy push.

Now you might think, well, dealing with climate change

is just going to require that we all pay more for energy.

That's what I used to think.

But consider the case of France.

France actually gets twice as much of its electricity

from clean zero-emission sources than does Germany,

and yet France pays almost half as much for its electricity.

How can that be?

You might have already anticipated the answer.

France gets most of its electricity from nuclear power, about 75% in total.

And nuclear just ends up being a lot more reliable,

generating power 24 hours a day, seven days a week,

for about 90% of the year.

We see this phenomenon show up at a global level.

So, for example, there's been a natural experiment

over the last 40 years,

even more than that,

in terms of the deployment of nuclear and the deployment of solar.

You can see that at a little bit higher cost,

we got about half as much electricity from solar and wind

than we did from nuclear.

Well, what does all this mean for going forward?

I think one of the most significant findings to date is this one.

Had Germany spent 580 billion dollars on nuclear instead of renewables,

it would already be getting a hundred percent of its electricity

from clean energy sources, and all of its transportation energy.

Now I think you might be wondering, and it's quite reasonable to ask:

Is nuclear power safe? And what do you do with the waste?

Well, those are very reasonable questions.

Turns out that there's been scientific studies on this

going over 40 years.

This is just the most recent study,

that was done by the prestigious British medical journal Lancet,

finds that nuclear power is the safest.

It's easy to understand why.

According to the WHO,

about 7 million people die annually from air pollution.

And nuclear plants don't emit that.

As a result, the climate scientist James Hansen looked at it.

He calculated that nuclear power has already saved

almost two million lives to date.

It turns out that even wind energy is more deadly than nuclear.

This is a photograph taken of two maintenance workers

in the Netherlands,

shortly before one of them fell to his death to avoid the fire,

and the other one was engulfed in flames.

Now, what about environmental impact?

I think a really easy way to think about it

is that uranium fuel, which is what we used to power nuclear plants,

is just really energy dense.

About the same amount of uranium as this Rubik's Cube

can power all of the energy you need in your entire life.

As a consequence,

you just don't need that much land

in order to produce a significant amount of electricity.

Here you can compare the solar farm I just described, Ivanpah,

to California's last nuclear plant,

Diablo Canyon.

It takes 450 times more land to generate the same amount of electricity

as it does from nuclear.

You would need 17 more solar farms like Ivanpah

in order to generate the same output as Diablo Canyon,

and of course, it would then be unreliable.

Well, what about the mining and the waste and the material throughput.

This has been studied pretty closely as well,

and it just turns out

that solar panels require 17 times more materials than nuclear plants do,

in the form of cement, glass, concrete, steel -

and that includes all the fuel used for those nuclear plants.

The consequence is that what comes out at the end, since its material throughput,

is just not a lot of waste from nuclear.

All of the waste from the Swiss nuclear program fits into this room.

Nuclear waste is actually the only waste from electricity production

that's safely contained and internalized.

Every other way of making electricity

emits that waste into the natural environment,

either as pollution or as material waste.

We tend to think of solar panels as clean,

but the truth is that there is no plan

to deal with solar panels at the end of their 20 or 25-year life.

A lot of experts are actually very concerned that solar panels

are just going to be shipped to poor countries in Africa or Asia,

with the rest of our electronic-waste stream,

to be disassembled,

often exposing people to really high level of toxic elements,

including lead, cadmium and chromium,

elements that because they're elements, their toxicity never declines over time.

I think we have an intuitive sense

that nuclear is a really powerful strong energy source

and that sunlight is really dilute and diffuse and weak,

which is why you have to spread solar collectors or wind collectors

over such a large amount of land.

Maybe that's why nobody was surprised

when in the recent science-fiction remake of Blade Runner,

the film opens with a very dark dystopian scene

where California's deserts have been entirely paved with solar farms.

All of which, I think, raises a really uncomfortable question:

In the effort to try to save the climate, are we destroying the environment?

The interesting thing is that over the last several hundred years,

human beings have actually been trying to move away

from what you would consider matter-dense fuels

towards energy-dense ones.

That means, really, from wood and dung towards coal, oil, natural gas, uranium.

This is a phenomenon that's been going on for a long time.

Poor countries around the world are in the process still

of moving away from wood and dung as primary energies.

And for the most part, this is a positive thing.

As you stop using wood as your major source of fuel,

it allows the forests to grow back and the wildlife to return.

As you stop burning wood in your home,

you no longer need to breath that toxic smoke.

And as you go from coal to natural gas and uranium

as your main sources of energy,

it holds out the possibility of basically eliminating air pollution altogether.

There's just this problem with nuclear -

While it's been pretty popular to move from dirtier to cleaner energy sources,

from energy-diffuse to energy-dense sources,

nuclear is just really unpopular for a bunch of historical reasons.

And as a consequence, in the past,

I and I think a lot of others have sort of said,

"In order to deal with climate change,

we're just going to need all the different kinds of clean energy that we have."

The problem is that it just turns out not to be true.

You remember, I discussed France a little bit ago.

France gets most of its electricity from nuclear.

If France were to try to significantly scale up solar and wind,

it would also have to significantly reduce how much electricity it gets from nuclear.

That's because in order to handle the huge variability of solar and wind on the grid,

they would need to burn more natural gas.

Think of it this way,

it's just really hard to ramp up and down a nuclear plant

whereas I think we're all pretty familiar with turning natural gas

up and down on our stove.

A similar process works in managing the grid.

Of course, it goes without saying

that oil and gas companies understand this pretty well,

which is why we've seen them invest millions of dollars in recent years

in promoting solar and wind.

This just raises, I think, another challenging question,

which is that in places that are using a lot of nuclear -

half of their grids that are mostly nuclear and hydro -

going towards solar and wind and other renewables

would actually increase carbon emissions.

I think a better alternative is just to tell the truth.

That's what a number of scientists have been doing.

I mentioned earlier

that hundreds of thousands of birds are killed every year by wind turbines;

what I didn't mention is that a million bats, at a minimum,

are killed every year by wind.

The consequence has been

that bat scientists have been speaking out about this.

This particular bat species, the hoary bat,

which is a migratory bat species,

is literally at risk of going extinct right now

because of the significant expansion of wind.

It's not just wind, it's also on solar.

The scientists who were involved in creating the Ivanpah solar farm,

who were involved in clearing that land, have been speaking out.

One of them wrote,

"Everybody knows that translocation of desert tortoises doesn't work.

When you're walking in front of a bulldozer,

crying and moving animals and cacti out of the way,

it's hard to think that the project is a good idea."

And now we can see these phenomena at work at an international level.

In my home state of California,

we've been stuffing a lot of natural gas into the side of a mountain

in order to handle all that intermittent solar and wind.

It's sprung a leak.

It was equivalent to putting 500,000 cars on the road.

And currently in Germany,

there's protesters trying to block a new coal mining project

that would involve destroying the ancient Hambacher Forest

in order to get to the coal underneath,

all in an effort to phase out nuclear and expand solar and wind.

The good news is that I think

that people still care about nature enough for these facts to matter.

We saw last year in South Korea

a citizen's jury deliberated for several months

weighing these different issues.

They had to decide whether they were going to phase out nuclear

or keep it and expand it.

They started out 40% in favor of expanding nuclear,

but after several months and considering these issues,

they ended up voting 60% to expand nuclear.

A similar phenomenon just happened last week in Arizona.

The voters had a ballot initiative

to vote on whether or not to continue with nuclear

or to phase it out and try to replace it with natural gas and solar.

They ended up rejecting at 70 to 30.

And even here in Europe,

we saw the Netherlands is one of the first countries in recent memory

to actually announce, as they did last week,

that they're going to start to increase their reliance on nuclear power

in recognition that there's just no way

they could generate significant amounts of energy enough from solar and wind

to meet their climate targets.

I think it's natural

that those of us that became very concerned about climate change,

such a big environmental issue,

would gravitate towards really romantic solutions

like harmonizing human civilization with the natural world

using renewable energies.

But I think it's also understandable that as the facts have come in,

many of us have started to question our prior beliefs and change our minds.

For me the question now is,

Now that we know that renewables can't save the planet,

are we going to keep letting them destroy it?

Thank you very much.

(Applause)


Why renewables can’t save the planet | Michael Shellenberger | TEDxDanubia

Translator: Amanda Chu Reviewer: Peter van de Ven

Thank you very much. Muchas gracias.

When I was a boy, Cuando era niño, mis padres a veces me llevaban a acampar a California.

my parents would sometimes take me camping in California. мои родители иногда брали меня в поход в Калифорнию.

We would camp in the beaches, in the forests, in the deserts. Acampábamos en las playas, en los bosques, en los desiertos... Мы разбивали лагеря на пляжах, в лесах, в пустынях.

Some people think the deserts are empty of life, Hay quienes piensan que no hay vida en los desiertos,

but my parents taught me to see the wildlife all around us, pero mis padres me enseñaron a percibir la fauna que nos rodea:

the hawks, the eagles, the tortoises. los halcones, las águilas, las tortugas...

One time when we were setting up camp, Una vez cuando estábamos acampando, Однажды, когда мы разбивали лагерь,

we found a baby scorpion with its stinger out, encontramos un bebé de escorpión con su aguijón preparado, мы нашли детеныша скорпиона с высунутым жалом,

and I remember thinking how cool it was y recuerdo haber pensado lo genial que era и я помню, как думал, как это было круто

that something could be both so cute and also so dangerous. que algo pudiera ser a la vez tan lindo y tan peligroso. что что-то может быть одновременно таким милым и таким опасным.

After college, I moved to California, Tras la universidad, me mudé a California,

and I started working on a number of environmental campaigns. y comencé a trabajar en varias campañas medioambientales.

I got involved in helping to save the state's last ancient redwood forest Me involucré en salvar el último bosque de secuoyas del estado, Я участвовал в спасении последнего древнего секвойного леса в штате.

and blocking a proposed radioactive waste repository y en bloquear la propuesta de un depósito de residuos radioactivos и блокирование предполагаемого хранилища радиоактивных отходов

set for the desert. ubicado en el desierto. набор для пустыни.

Shortly after I turned 30, Poco después de cumplir los 30, Вскоре после того, как мне исполнилось 30 лет,

I decided I wanted to dedicate a significant amount of my life decidí que quería dedicar buena parte de mi vida a solucionar el cambio climático.

to solving climate change. к решению проблемы изменения климата.

I was worried that global warming would end up destroying Me preocupaba que el calentamiento global acabase por destruir Я беспокоился, что глобальное потепление в конечном итоге уничтожит

many of the natural environments that people had worked so hard to protect. muchos de los paisajes naturales que la gente se esforzaba en proteger.

I thought the technical solutions were pretty straightforward - Pensaba que las soluciones técnicas eran bastante sencillas Я думал, что технические решения были довольно простыми -

solar panels on every roof, electric car in the driveway - --paneles solares en los tejados, coches eléctricos en los garajes--,

that the main obstacles were political. que los principales obstáculos eran políticos. что основные препятствия были политическими.

And so I helped to organize a coalition Así que ayudé a organizar una coalición И поэтому я помог организовать коалицию

of the country's biggest labor unions and biggest environmental groups. de los mayores sindicatos y grupos medioambientales del país. крупнейших профсоюзов страны и крупнейших экологических групп.

Our proposal was for a 300-billion-dollar investment in renewables. Nuestra propuesta fue invertir 300 mil millones de dólares en energía renovable. Наше предложение касалось инвестиций в размере 300 миллиардов долларов в возобновляемые источники энергии.

And the idea was not only would we prevent climate change, La idea era que no sólo prevendríamos el cambio climático, И идея заключалась не только в том, что мы предотвратим изменение климата,

but we would also create millions of new jobs sino que también crearíamos millones de nuevos empleos

in a very fast-growing high-tech sector. en un sector fecundo de alta tecnología. в очень быстрорастущем секторе высоких технологий.

Our efforts really paid off in 2007, Nuestros esfuerzos se vieron recompensados en 2007, Наши усилия действительно окупились в 2007 году,

when then-presidential candidate Barack Obama embraced our vision. cuando el candidato presidencial Barack Obama adoptó nuestra visión. когда тогдашний кандидат в президенты Барак Обама принял наше видение.

And between 2009 and 2015, the US invested 150 billion dollars Y entre 2009 y 2015, EE. UU. invirtió 150 mil millones de dólares

in renewables and other kinds of clean tech. en energías renovables y otros tipos de tecnologías limpias. в возобновляемых источниках энергии и других видах чистых технологий.

But right away, we started to encounter some problems. Pero de inmediato comenzamos a encontrar algunos problemas. Но сразу же мы начали сталкиваться с некоторыми проблемами.

So first of all, the electricity from solar rooftops Primeramente, la electricidad de los techos solares

ends up costing about twice as much as the electricity from solar farms. acaba costando el doble que la electricidad de granjas solares. в конечном итоге стоит примерно в два раза больше, чем электричество от солнечных ферм.

And both solar farms and wind farms Y ambas, granjas solares y eólicas, И солнечные фермы, и ветряные электростанции

require covering a pretty significant amount of land requieren de una amplia extensión de terreno требуют покрытия довольно значительного количества земли

with solar panels and wind turbines para los paneles solares y las turbinas eólicas,

and also building very big transmission lines y también requieren largas líneas de transmisión а также строительство очень больших линий электропередачи

to bring all that electricity from the countryside into the city. para traer toda esa electricidad desde el campo hasta la ciudad.

Both of those things were often very strongly resisted by local communities, Ambas medidas eran frecuentemente rechazadas por las comunidades locales, Обе эти вещи часто встречали очень сильное сопротивление со стороны местных сообществ,

as well as by conservation biologists como así también por los biólogos conservacionistas, а также природоохранными биологами

who were concerned about the impacts on wild-bird species and other animals. quienes se preocupaban por el impacto en aves salvajes y otros animales. которые были обеспокоены воздействием на виды диких птиц и других животных.

Now, there was a lot of other people Ahora bien, había muchas otras personas trabajando en soluciones técnicas.

working on technical solutions at the time. работая над техническими решениями в то время.

One of the big challenges, of course, is the intermittency of solar and wind. Uno de los grandes desafíos es la intermitencia del sol y el viento. Одной из больших проблем, конечно же, является перемежаемость солнечной и ветровой энергии.

They only generate electricity about 10 to 30 percent of the time Sólo generan electricidad entre el 10 % y el 30 % del tiempo Они генерируют электроэнергию только от 10 до 30 процентов времени.

during most of year. durante gran parte del año.

But some of the solutions being proposed Algunas de las soluciones propuestas Но некоторые из предлагаемых решений

were to convert hydroelectric dams into gigantic batteries. consistían en convertir presas hidroeléctricas en baterías gigantes. должны были превратить плотины гидроэлектростанций в гигантские батареи.

The idea was that when the sun was shining and the wind was blowing, La idea era que cuando el sol brillara y el viento soplara,

you would pump the water uphill, store it for later, ты бы качал воду в гору, приберегая ее на потом,

and then when you needed electricity, run it over the turbines. а затем, когда вам понадобится электричество, пустите его на турбины.

In terms of wildlife, some of these problems С точки зрения дикой природы, некоторые из этих проблем

just didn't seem like a significant concern. просто не казалось серьезной проблемой.

So when I learned that house cats kill billions of birds every year, Cuando me enteré de que los gatos domésticos Поэтому, когда я узнал, что домашние кошки ежегодно убивают миллиарды птиц,

it put into perspective the hundreds of thousands of birds eso puso en perspectiva los cientos de miles de pájaros это поставило в перспективе сотни тысяч птиц

that are killed by wind turbines. que mueren por las turbinas eólicas. которых убивают ветряки.

It basically seemed to me at the time Básicamente, en aquel tiempo me parecía que casi todos, В принципе, мне тогда казалось

that most, if not all, of the problems of scaling up solar and wind что большинство, если не все проблемы расширения использования солнечной и ветровой

could be solved through more technological innovation. может быть решена за счет большего количества технологических инноваций.

But as the years went by, Pero conforme pasaban los años,

these problems persisted and, in many cases, grew worse. estos problemas persistían y en muchos casos empeoraban. эти проблемы сохранялись и во многих случаях усугублялись.

So California is a state that's really committed to renewable energy, California es un estado realmente comprometido con la energía renovable, Итак, Калифорния — это штат, который действительно привержен возобновляемым источникам энергии.

but we still haven't converted many of our hydroelectric dams pero aún no hemos convertido muchas de nuestras hidroeléctricas но мы до сих пор не переоборудовали многие из наших гидроэлектростанций

into big batteries. en grandes baterías.

Some of the problems are just geographic; Algunos de los problemas son geográficos,

it's just you have to have a very particular kind of formation se precisa de un tipo muy particular de formación para poder hacer eso, просто у вас должна быть особая формация

to be able to do that,

and even in those cases, e incluso en tales casos es bastante costoso hacer esas conversiones. и даже в этих случаях

it's quite expensive to make those conversions.

Other challenges are just that there's other uses for water, Otros desafíos son que hay otros usos para el agua, como el riego,

like irrigation,

and maybe the most significant problem y quizá el problema más importante

is just that in California the water in our rivers and reservoirs es que en California el agua de nuestros ríos y reservas

is growing increasingly scarce and unreliable es cada vez más escasa y menos fiable debido al cambio climático.

due to climate change.

In terms of this issue of reliability, as a consequence of it, Respecto a la fiabilidad --y como consecuencia de ello--

we've actually had to stop the electricity hemos tenido que detener la electricidad que la ciudad recibe de granjas solares

coming from the solar farms into the cities

because there's just been too much of it at times. porque en ocasiones ha sido demasiada. потому что временами этого было слишком много.

Or we've been starting to pay our neighboring states, like Arizona, Или мы начали платить нашим соседним штатам, таким как Аризона,

to take that solar electricity. para que tomen esa electricidad. взять это солнечное электричество.

The alternative is to suffer from blowouts of the grid. La alternativa es sufrir explosiones en la red.

And it turns out that when it comes to birds and cats - Y resulta que en lo relativo a los pájaros y los gatos, И оказывается, что когда дело доходит до птиц и кошек -

cats don't kill eagles; eagles kill cats. los gatos no matan águilas, al contrario.

What cats kill are the small common sparrows and jays and robins, Los gatos matan pequeños gorriones, arrendajos y petirrojos,

birds that are not endangered and not at risk of going extinct. pájaros que no están en peligro o en riesgo de extinguirse.

What do kill eagles and other big birds, Что убивает орлов и других больших птиц,

like this kite as well as owls and condors как этот коршун, а также совы и кондоры

and other threatened and endangered species, и другие исчезающие и исчезающие виды,

are wind turbines; son las turbinas eólicas.

in fact, they're one of the most significant threats De hecho, son una de las amenazas más importantes para esas grandes especies. на самом деле, они являются одной из самых значительных угроз

to those big bird species that we have. к тем большим видам птиц, которые у нас есть.

We just haven't been introducing the airspace with many other objects No hemos ocupado el espacio aéreo con muchos otros objetos Мы просто не вводили воздушное пространство со многими другими объектами

like we have wind turbines over the last several years. como lo hemos hecho con turbinas eólicas durante los últimos años. как у нас есть ветряные турбины за последние несколько лет.

And in terms of solar, Y en relación con la energía solar,

you know, building a solar farm is a lot like building any other kind of farm: construir una granja solar es muy similar a construir cualquier otro tipo de granja:

you have to clear the whole area of wildlife. se debe despejar el área entera de vida silvestre. Вы должны очистить всю территорию дикой природы.

So this is a picture of one third of one of the biggest solar farms in California, Esta imagen es de un tercio de una de las mayores granjas en California, Итак, это фотография одной трети одной из крупнейших солнечных ферм в Калифорнии.

called Ivanpah. llamada Ivanpah.

In order to build this, Para construir esto, tuvieron que limpiar toda el área de tortugas del desierto,

they had to clear the whole area of desert tortoises,

literally pulling desert tortoises and their babies out of burrows, literalmente sacándolas junto a sus crías de las madrigueras, буквально вытаскивая из нор пустынных черепах и их детенышей,

putting them on the back of pickup trucks, and transporting them to captivity, poniéndolas en camionetas, y transportándolas a cautiverio, посадив их на кузов пикапа, и отвезя в плен,

where many of them ended up dying. donde muchas acabaron muriendo.

And the current estimates are that about 6,000 birds are killed every year, По текущим оценкам, каждый год убивают около 6000 птиц.

actually catching on fire above the solar farm al incendiarse sobre la granja solar y desplomarse al vacío. на самом деле загорается над солнечной фермой

and plunging to their deaths. и погружаясь на смерть.

Over time, it gradually struck me Con el tiempo, gradualmente me percaté Со временем меня постепенно осенило

that there was really no amount of technological innovation de que no había cantidad de innovación tecnológica что на самом деле не было никаких технологических инноваций

that was going to make the sun shine more regularly que pudiese hacer que el sol brillara más regularmente, что заставит солнце светить более регулярно

or wind blow more reliably; o que el viento soplara con más consistencia.

in fact, you could make solar panels cheaper, De hecho, se podrían hacer paneles solares más baratos, на самом деле, вы могли бы сделать солнечные панели дешевле,

and you could make wind turbines bigger, y turbinas eólicas más grandes,

but sunlight and wind are just really dilute fuels, pero la luz solar y el viento son combustibles muy diluidos, но солнечный свет и ветер - это просто разбавленное топливо,

and in order to produce significant amounts of electricity, y para producir cantidades significativas de electricidad, и для производства значительного количества электроэнергии,

you just have to cover a very large land mass with them. se necesita cubrir una amplia extensión de terreno con ellas. вам просто нужно покрыть ими очень большой массив суши.

In other words, all of the major problems with renewables aren't technical, En otras palabras, los grandes problemas de la energía renovable no son técnicos, Другими словами, все основные проблемы с возобновляемыми источниками энергии не технические,

they're natural. sino naturales.

Well, dealing with all of this unreliability Lidiar con esta falta de fiabilidad y el enorme impacto medioambiental

and the big environmental impacts

obviously comes at a pretty high economic cost. obviamente implica un elevado costo económico. очевидно, обходится довольно высокими экономическими издержками.

We've been hearing a lot Hemos escuchado mucho sobre cómo los paneles solares y turbinas eólicas Мы много слышали

about how solar panels and wind turbines have come down in cost in recent years, о том, как в последние годы подешевели солнечные панели и ветряные турбины,

but that cost has been significantly outweighed pero ese costo se ha visto significativamente superado

by just the challenges of integrating all of that unreliable power onto the grid. por los retos de integrar toda esa energía variable en la red. только проблемами интеграции всей этой ненадежной энергии в сеть.

Just take, for instance, what's happened in California. Tomemos por ejemplo lo que sucedió en California. Возьмем, к примеру, то, что произошло в Калифорнии.

At the period in which solar panels have come down in price En el período en que los paneles solares han bajado significativamente de precio, В период, когда солнечные панели подешевели

very significantly, same with wind, очень значительно, то же самое с ветром,

we've seen our electricity prices go up nuestra factura eléctrica es cinco veces mayor que en el resto del país.

five times more than the rest of the country. в пять раз больше, чем в остальной части страны.

And it's not unique to us. Y no nos sucede sólo a nosotros. И это не уникально для нас.

You can see the same phenomenon happened in Germany, El mismo fenómeno puede observarse en Alemania,

which is really the world's leader el líder mundial en energía solar, eólica y otras tecnologías renovables.

in solar, wind and other renewable technologies.

Their prices increased 50 percent during their big renewable-energy push. Sus precios subieron un 50 % durante su gran implementación de renovables. Их цены выросли на 50 процентов во время их большого толчка к возобновляемым источникам энергии.

Now you might think, well, dealing with climate change Se podría pensar que lidiar con el cambio climático Теперь вы можете подумать, ну что ж, борьба с изменением климата

is just going to require that we all pay more for energy. simplemente va a requerir que paguemos más por la energía.

That's what I used to think. Eso es lo que solía pensar yo. Так я думал.

But consider the case of France. Pero consideremos el caso de Francia. Но рассмотрим случай Франции.

France actually gets twice as much of its electricity Francia obtiene comparativamente el doble de electricidad Франция фактически получает в два раза больше электроэнергии

from clean zero-emission sources than does Germany, de fuentes limpias de cero emisiones que Alemania, из чистых источников с нулевым уровнем выбросов, чем Германия,

and yet France pays almost half as much for its electricity. y aun así Francia paga alrededor de la mitad por su electricidad. и все же Франция платит почти вдвое меньше за электроэнергию.

How can that be? ¿Cómo es posible? Как это может быть?

You might have already anticipated the answer. Quizá ya anticiparon la respuesta: Возможно, вы уже предвидели ответ.

France gets most of its electricity from nuclear power, about 75% in total. Francia obtiene casi toda su electricidad de la energía nuclear, alrededor del 75 %.

And nuclear just ends up being a lot more reliable, Y la energía nuclear resulta ser mucho más fiable, А ядерная просто оказывается намного надежнее,

generating power 24 hours a day, seven days a week, pues genera energía las 24 h del día, siete días a la semana,

for about 90% of the year. durante el 90 % del año.

We see this phenomenon show up at a global level. Vemos que este fenómeno se manifiesta a un nivel global. Мы видим, что это явление проявляется на глобальном уровне.

So, for example, there's been a natural experiment Por ejemplo, ha habido un experimento natural durante los últimos 40 años o más,

over the last 40 years,

even more than that,

in terms of the deployment of nuclear and the deployment of solar. en términos de la implementación de la energía nuclear y la energía solar. с точки зрения развертывания ядерной и развертывания солнечной.

You can see that at a little bit higher cost, Puede verse que por un costo ligeramente mayor, Вы можете видеть, что при немного более высокой стоимости,

we got about half as much electricity from solar and wind hemos obtenido la mitad de electricidad de fuentes solares y eólicas мы получаем примерно вдвое меньше электроэнергии от солнца и ветра

than we did from nuclear. que de fuentes nucleares.

Well, what does all this mean for going forward? ¿Qué significa esto de cara al futuro? Ну, что все это значит для движения вперед?

I think one of the most significant findings to date is this one. Я думаю, что это одно из самых значительных открытий на сегодняшний день.

Had Germany spent 580 billion dollars on nuclear instead of renewables, si Alemania hubiera gastado 580 mil millones de dólares

it would already be getting a hundred percent of its electricity ya estaría obteniendo el 100 % de su electricidad он уже будет получать сто процентов своего электричества

from clean energy sources, and all of its transportation energy. de fuentes limpias, y toda su energía de transporte. из экологически чистых источников энергии, а также всю свою транспортную энергию.

Now I think you might be wondering, and it's quite reasonable to ask: Quizá se estén preguntando --y es bastante razonable--: Теперь я думаю, что вам может быть интересно, и вполне разумно спросить:

Is nuclear power safe? And what do you do with the waste? ¿Es la energía nuclear segura? ¿Qué hacer con los residuos? Безопасна ли ядерная энергетика? А что вы делаете с отходами?

Well, those are very reasonable questions. Se trata de preguntas muy razonables.

Turns out that there's been scientific studies on this Resulta que ha habido estudios científicos sobre esto Оказывается, были научные исследования по этому поводу.

going over 40 years. durante más de 40 años. проходит более 40 лет.

This is just the most recent study, Это только самое последнее исследование,

that was done by the prestigious British medical journal Lancet, realizado por la prestigiosa revista médica británica "The Lancet",

finds that nuclear power is the safest. en el que se descubre que la energía nuclear es la más segura. приходит к выводу, что ядерная энергия является самой безопасной.

It's easy to understand why. Es fácil entender el porqué.

According to the WHO, De acuerdo con la OMS, Согласно ВОЗ,

about 7 million people die annually from air pollution. unos 7 millones de personas mueren al año por contaminación atmosférica.

And nuclear plants don't emit that. Y las plantas nucleares no emiten eso. А АЭС такого не выбрасывают.

As a result, the climate scientist James Hansen looked at it. Como resultado, el climatólogo James Hansen estudió el asunto. В результате на нее посмотрел климатолог Джеймс Хансен.

He calculated that nuclear power has already saved Calculó que la energía nuclear ya había salvado Он подсчитал, что атомная энергетика уже спасла

almost two million lives to date. casi dos millones de vidas hasta la fecha. почти два миллиона жизней на сегодняшний день.

It turns out that even wind energy is more deadly than nuclear. Resulta que incluso la energía eólica es más mortífera que la nuclear.

This is a photograph taken of two maintenance workers En esta fotografía vemos dos operarios de mantenimiento en Países Bajos, Это фотография двух ремонтников.

in the Netherlands,

shortly before one of them fell to his death to avoid the fire, poco antes de que uno de ellos cayera por eludir el fuego y muriera, незадолго до того, как один из них разбился, спасаясь от огня,

and the other one was engulfed in flames. y el otro fuera envuelto por las llamas. а другой был охвачен пламенем.

Now, what about environmental impact? ¿Qué hay del impacto medioambiental? А как насчет воздействия на окружающую среду?

I think a really easy way to think about it Creo que una forma sencilla de pensarlo

is that uranium fuel, which is what we used to power nuclear plants, es que el uranio, que es lo que usábamos en las plantas nucleares, это урановое топливо, которое мы использовали для питания атомных электростанций,

is just really energy dense. tiene gran densidad energética. просто очень энергоемкий.

About the same amount of uranium as this Rubik's Cube Una cantidad de uranio similar a este cubo de Rubik

can power all of the energy you need in your entire life. puede proporcionar toda la energía que necesitarán durante su vida entera. может питать всю энергию, которая вам нужна в течение всей вашей жизни.

As a consequence, Como consecuencia, no requiere de grandes terrenos Как следствие,

you just don't need that much land вам просто не нужно столько земли

in order to produce a significant amount of electricity. para producir una notable cantidad de electricidad.

Here you can compare the solar farm I just described, Ivanpah, Aquí se puede comparar la granja solar anteriormente descrita, Ivanpah,

to California's last nuclear plant, a la última central nuclear de California, Diablo Canyon. на последнюю атомную электростанцию в Калифорнии,

Diablo Canyon.

It takes 450 times more land to generate the same amount of electricity Se precisa un terreno 450 veces mayor para generar la misma electricidad Для производства того же количества электроэнергии требуется в 450 раз больше земли.

as it does from nuclear. que produce la central nuclear.

You would need 17 more solar farms like Ivanpah Se necesitarían 17 granjas solares más como Ivanpah Вам понадобится еще 17 солнечных ферм, таких как Ivanpah

in order to generate the same output as Diablo Canyon, para generar la misma producción que Diablo Canyon

and of course, it would then be unreliable. y, por supuesto, entonces sería energía poco fiable. и, конечно, тогда это было бы ненадежно.

Well, what about the mining and the waste and the material throughput. ¿Y qué hay de la minería, y los residuos y el caudal de materiales? Ну, а как насчет добычи, отходов и пропускной способности материала.

This has been studied pretty closely as well, Это было изучено довольно тщательно, а также

and it just turns out y resulta ser que los paneles solares и это просто оказывается

that solar panels require 17 times more materials than nuclear plants do,

in the form of cement, glass, concrete, steel - en forma de cemento, cristal, hormigón, acero...

and that includes all the fuel used for those nuclear plants. Y eso incluye todo el combustible usado en esas plantas nucleares. и это включает все топливо, используемое для этих атомных станций.

The consequence is that what comes out at the end, since its material throughput, La consecuencia es que lo que finalmente se obtiene Следствием этого является то, что получается в конце, поскольку его материальная пропускная способность,

is just not a lot of waste from nuclear. a partir de la energía nuclear no son demasiados residuos. просто не так много отходов от атомной энергетики.

All of the waste from the Swiss nuclear program fits into this room. Todos los residuos del programa nuclear suizo entran en esta habitación. Все отходы швейцарской ядерной программы помещаются в эту комнату.

Nuclear waste is actually the only waste from electricity production Los residuos nucleares son los únicos desechos en la producción eléctrica Ядерные отходы — фактически единственные отходы производства электроэнергии.

that's safely contained and internalized. que pueden almacenarse con seguridad. это безопасно содержится и усваивается.

Every other way of making electricity Todos los demás métodos de producción emiten residuos al medioambiente,

emits that waste into the natural environment, выбрасывает эти отходы в окружающую среду,

either as pollution or as material waste. ya sea como polución o como desechos materiales.

We tend to think of solar panels as clean, Tendemos a pensar que los paneles solares son limpios,

but the truth is that there is no plan pero lo cierto es que no hay plan alguno

to deal with solar panels at the end of their 20 or 25-year life.

A lot of experts are actually very concerned that solar panels Muchos expertos están preocupados de que los paneles solares

are just going to be shipped to poor countries in Africa or Asia, terminen enviándose a países pobres en África o Asia,

with the rest of our electronic-waste stream, con el resto de nuestros desechos electrónicos, с остальной частью нашего потока электронных отходов,

to be disassembled, para ser desmontados,

often exposing people to really high level of toxic elements, lo que frecuentemente expone a la gente a niveles muy altos de elementos tóxicos,

including lead, cadmium and chromium, como plomo, cadmio y cromo, elementos cuya toxicidad, включая свинец, кадмий и хром,

elements that because they're elements, their toxicity never declines over time. элементы, что, поскольку они являются элементами, их токсичность никогда не снижается с течением времени.

I think we have an intuitive sense Creo que intuitivamente sabemos Я думаю, у нас есть интуитивное чувство

that nuclear is a really powerful strong energy source que la energía nuclear es una poderosa fuente de energía

and that sunlight is really dilute and diffuse and weak, y que la luz solar está demasiado diluida, que es difusa y débil, и что солнечный свет действительно разреженный, рассеянный и слабый,

which is why you have to spread solar collectors or wind collectors razón por la cual han de instalarse colectores solares o turbinas eólicas Вот почему вы должны распространять солнечные коллекторы или ветряные коллекторы

over such a large amount of land. en amplias extensiones de terreno.

Maybe that's why nobody was surprised Quizá por eso no sorprendió a nadie Может поэтому никто не удивился

when in the recent science-fiction remake of Blade Runner, que en la nueva adaptación de Blade Runner, когда в недавнем научно-фантастическом ремейке «Бегущего по лезвию»

the film opens with a very dark dystopian scene la película comience con una escena distópica, фильм начинается с очень мрачной антиутопической сцены

where California's deserts have been entirely paved with solar farms. en la que los desiertos de California han sido pavimentados con granjas solares.

All of which, I think, raises a really uncomfortable question: Todo esto plantea una pregunta muy incómoda: Все это, я думаю, поднимает очень неудобный вопрос:

In the effort to try to save the climate, are we destroying the environment? Acaso en el esfuerzo por salvar el clima, ¿estamos destruyendo el medio ambiente? Пытаясь спасти климат, разрушаем ли мы окружающую среду?

The interesting thing is that over the last several hundred years, Lo interesante es que durante los últimos cientos de años, Интересно, что за последние несколько сотен лет

human beings have actually been trying to move away los seres humanos han intentado sustituir los combustibles materialmente voluminosos люди на самом деле пытались уйти

from what you would consider matter-dense fuels из того, что вы считаете плотным топливом

towards energy-dense ones. por otros de energía más concentrada. в сторону энергоемких.

That means, really, from wood and dung towards coal, oil, natural gas, uranium. Es decir, de la madera y el estiércol a carbón, petróleo, gas natural y uranio. То есть, действительно, от дерева и навоза к углю, нефти, природному газу, урану.

This is a phenomenon that's been going on for a long time. Es un fenómeno que lleva varios años. Это явление, которое происходит уже давно.

Poor countries around the world are in the process still Los países más pobres del mundo están aún en proceso Бедные страны по всему миру все еще находятся в процессе

of moving away from wood and dung as primary energies. de abandonar la madera y el estiércol como energías primarias.

And for the most part, this is a positive thing. Y esto es, en buena medida, algo positivo. И по большей части это положительный момент.

As you stop using wood as your major source of fuel, Al dejar de usar madera como principal fuente de combustible,

it allows the forests to grow back and the wildlife to return. se permite que los bosques crezcan de nuevo, y que la fauna regrese.

As you stop burning wood in your home, Al dejar de quemar madera en casa, ya no tienen que respirar ese humo tóxico.

you no longer need to breath that toxic smoke.

And as you go from coal to natural gas and uranium Y al pasar del carbón al gas natural y al uranio И когда вы переходите от угля к природному газу и урану

as your main sources of energy, como principales fuentes de energía

it holds out the possibility of basically eliminating air pollution altogether. se presenta la posibilidad de eliminar la contaminación atmosférica por completo. это дает возможность практически полностью устранить загрязнение воздуха.

There's just this problem with nuclear - Hay un solo problema con la energía nuclear. Вот только проблема с ядерной...

While it's been pretty popular to move from dirtier to cleaner energy sources, Aunque el cambio a fuentes de energía más limpias ha sido bastante popular, Хотя переход от более грязных к более чистым источникам энергии был довольно популярен,

from energy-diffuse to energy-dense sources, de fuentes de energía difusa a otras más densas, от энергорассеянных к энергоплотным источникам,

nuclear is just really unpopular for a bunch of historical reasons. la energía nuclear es muy impopular por razones de corte histórico. Ядерная просто очень непопулярна по ряду исторических причин.

And as a consequence, in the past, Como consecuencia, en el pasado, tanto yo como muchos otros hemos dicho: И, как следствие, в прошлом

I and I think a lot of others have sort of said, Я и я думаю, что многие другие говорили,

"In order to deal with climate change, "Para lidiar con el cambio climático

we're just going to need all the different kinds of clean energy that we have." vamos a necesitar de todos los tipos de energía a nuestra disposición". нам просто понадобятся все виды чистой энергии, которые у нас есть».

The problem is that it just turns out not to be true. El problema es que eso resulta no ser cierto. Проблема в том, что это просто оказывается неправдой.

You remember, I discussed France a little bit ago. Recuerdan que mencioné a Francia hace un momento. Вы помните, я обсуждал Францию немного раньше.

France gets most of its electricity from nuclear. Francia obtiene casi toda su electricidad de la energía nuclear.

If France were to try to significantly scale up solar and wind, Si Francia intentara invertir en energías solares y eólicas, Если бы Франция попыталась значительно увеличить использование солнечной и ветровой энергии,

it would also have to significantly reduce how much electricity it gets from nuclear. también debería reducir la electricidad proveniente de plantas nucleares. ему также придется значительно сократить количество электроэнергии, получаемой от ядерной энергетики.

That's because in order to handle the huge variability of solar and wind on the grid, Porque para gestionar la gran variabilidad solar y eólica en la red, Это потому, что для того, чтобы справиться с огромной изменчивостью солнечной и ветровой энергии в сети,

they would need to burn more natural gas. necesitarían quemar más gas natural. им нужно будет сжигать больше природного газа.

Think of it this way, Piensen en esto: Подумайте об этом так,

it's just really hard to ramp up and down a nuclear plant es muy difícil ampliar o reducir la producción de una planta nuclear, просто очень сложно разгонять атомную станцию

whereas I think we're all pretty familiar with turning natural gas pero todos sabemos lo sencillo que es encender el gas natural в то время как я думаю, что мы все хорошо знакомы с превращением природного газа в

up and down on our stove. en nuestra cocina.

A similar process works in managing the grid. Un proceso similar se aplica en el caso de la red.

Of course, it goes without saying Por supuesto, es evidente que las compañías petroleras y de gas Конечно, само собой разумеется

that oil and gas companies understand this pretty well,

which is why we've seen them invest millions of dollars in recent years motivo por el cual han invertido millones de dólares últimamente

in promoting solar and wind. en promover energías solares y eólicas.

This just raises, I think, another challenging question, Esto plantea otro desafiante interrogante:

which is that in places that are using a lot of nuclear - что в местах, где используется много ядерных...

half of their grids that are mostly nuclear and hydro - o tienen redes de energías nucleares e hidráulicas, половина их энергосистем, в основном ядерных и гидро-

going towards solar and wind and other renewables la transición a energías solares, eólicas y otras renovables переход к солнечной, ветровой и другим возобновляемым источникам энергии

would actually increase carbon emissions. de hecho aumentaría las emisiones de carbono. на самом деле увеличит выбросы углерода.

I think a better alternative is just to tell the truth. Creo que una mejor alternativa es simplemente decir la verdad.

That's what a number of scientists have been doing. Eso es lo que han hecho algunos científicos. Этим занимается ряд ученых.

I mentioned earlier Mencioné antes que cientos de miles de pájaros я упоминал ранее

that hundreds of thousands of birds are killed every year by wind turbines;

what I didn't mention is that a million bats, at a minimum, pero no mencioné que un millón de murciélagos, como mínimo,

are killed every year by wind. mueren cada año por las turbinas.

The consequence has been Por esta razón, los biólogos se han pronunciado al respecto. Следствие было

that bat scientists have been speaking out about this. что ученые летучих мышей говорили об этом.

This particular bat species, the hoary bat, Esta especie de murciélago en particular, el murciélago gris, Этот особый вид летучих мышей, седая летучая мышь,

which is a migratory bat species, que es una especie migratoria,

is literally at risk of going extinct right now está literalmente en peligro de extinción en este momento, буквально сейчас находится под угрозой вымирания

because of the significant expansion of wind. por la notable expansión de la energía eólica. из-за значительного расширения ветра.

It's not just wind, it's also on solar. Tampoco la energía solar está exenta de problemas.

The scientists who were involved in creating the Ivanpah solar farm, Los científicos implicados en la construcción de Ivanpah,

who were involved in clearing that land, have been speaking out. involucrados en limpiar el terreno, tenían también cosas que contar. которые участвовали в расчистке этой земли, высказались.

One of them wrote, Uno de ellos escribió: Один из них написал,

"Everybody knows that translocation of desert tortoises doesn't work. "Es sabido que la reubicación de tortugas del desierto es inviable.

When you're walking in front of a bulldozer, Cuando caminas frente a una excavadora, Когда ты идешь перед бульдозером,

crying and moving animals and cacti out of the way, llorando y quitando animales y cactus del camino, плачущие и убирающие с дороги животных и кактусы,

it's hard to think that the project is a good idea."

And now we can see these phenomena at work at an international level. Y ahora podemos ver estos fenómenos reproducirse a nivel internacional.

In my home state of California, En mi estado, California, В моем родном штате Калифорния,

we've been stuffing a lot of natural gas into the side of a mountain hemos almacenado mucho gas natural en el lateral de una montaña мы закачивали много природного газа в склон горы

in order to handle all that intermittent solar and wind. para gestionar la intermitencia las energías solar y eólica.

It's sprung a leak. Произошла утечка.

It was equivalent to putting 500,000 cars on the road. Fue el equivalente a poner 500 000 coches en la carretera. Это было эквивалентно запуску 500 000 автомобилей.

And currently in Germany, Y actualmente en Alemania, И в настоящее время в Германии,

there's protesters trying to block a new coal mining project hay manifestantes tratando de bloquear un nuevo proyecto minero de carbón есть протестующие, пытающиеся заблокировать новый проект по добыче угля

that would involve destroying the ancient Hambacher Forest que implicaría destruir el antiquísimo bosque de Hambach это потребует уничтожения древнего леса Хамбахер

in order to get to the coal underneath, para llegar hasta el carbón que está debajo,

all in an effort to phase out nuclear and expand solar and wind. todo en un esfuerzo por eliminar la energía nuclear все в попытке поэтапно отказаться от атомной энергии и расширить солнечную и ветровую.

The good news is that I think Las buenas noticias son que

that people still care about nature enough for these facts to matter. a la gente aún le preocupa la naturaleza lo bastante para que estos datos importen. что люди все еще достаточно заботятся о природе, чтобы эти факты имели значение.

We saw last year in South Korea El año pasado en Corea del Sur,

a citizen's jury deliberated for several months un jurado popular deliberó durante varios meses, гражданское жюри совещалось несколько месяцев

weighing these different issues. y analizó estos asuntos. взвешивание этих различных вопросов.

They had to decide whether they were going to phase out nuclear Tenían que decidir si iban a eliminar la energía nuclear Они должны были решить, собираются ли они постепенно отказываться от ядерной энергии.

or keep it and expand it. o a mantenerla y expandirla.

They started out 40% in favor of expanding nuclear, Comenzaron con un 40 % a favor de expandir la nuclear, Они начали 40% в пользу расширения ядерной,

but after several months and considering these issues, pero tras unos meses de analizar estos problemas, но через несколько месяцев и учитывая эти вопросы,

they ended up voting 60% to expand nuclear. el 60 % acabó votando por la expansión. в итоге они проголосовали за расширение ядерной энергетики 60%.

A similar phenomenon just happened last week in Arizona. Un fenómeno similar aconteció la semana pasada en Arizona. Подобное явление произошло на прошлой неделе в Аризоне.

The voters had a ballot initiative Los votantes tenían una iniciativa popular У избирателей была избирательная инициатива

to vote on whether or not to continue with nuclear para votar si continuar con la energía nuclear, проголосовать за то, продолжать ли ядерную

or to phase it out and try to replace it with natural gas and solar. o eliminarla e intentar reemplazarla con gas natural y energía solar.

They ended up rejecting at 70 to 30. Terminaron por rechazarla en un 70 a 30. В итоге они отказались от 70 до 30.

And even here in Europe, Incluso aquí en Europa, И даже здесь, в Европе,

we saw the Netherlands is one of the first countries in recent memory vimos que Holanda es uno de los primeros países мы видели Нидерланды - одна из первых стран в недавней памяти

to actually announce, as they did last week, en anunciar la semana pasada фактически объявить, как они сделали на прошлой неделе,

that they're going to start to increase their reliance on nuclear power que van a incrementar su dependencia de la energía nuclear,

in recognition that there's just no way en un reconocimiento de que no hay forma в признании того, что просто нет способа

they could generate significant amounts of energy enough from solar and wind de generar suficiente energía de fuentes solares y eólicas

to meet their climate targets. para cumplir sus objetivos climáticos. для достижения своих климатических целей.

I think it's natural Creo que es natural я думаю это естественно

that those of us that became very concerned about climate change, que quienes estamos muy preocupados por el cambio climático, что те из нас, кто был очень обеспокоен изменением климата,

such a big environmental issue, un gran problema medioambiental, такая большая экологическая проблема,

would gravitate towards really romantic solutions gravitemos hacia soluciones románticas будет тяготеть к действительно романтическим решениям

like harmonizing human civilization with the natural world como armonizar la civilización con el mundo natural

using renewable energies. usando energías renovables. с использованием возобновляемых источников энергии.

But I think it's also understandable that as the facts have come in, Pero también es entendible que, ante el peso de la evidencia,

many of us have started to question our prior beliefs and change our minds. muchos hayamos comenzado a cuestionar nuestras creencias y a cambiar de opinión. многие из нас начали подвергать сомнению наши прежние убеждения и менять свое мнение.

For me the question now is, Para mí la cuestión ahora es: Для меня сейчас вопрос в том,

Now that we know that renewables can't save the planet, Sabiendo que las energías renovables no pueden salvar el planeta, Теперь, когда мы знаем, что возобновляемые источники энергии не могут спасти планету,

are we going to keep letting them destroy it? ¿vamos a continuar permitiendo que lo destruyan? мы собираемся позволить им уничтожить его?

Thank you very much. Muchísimas gracias.

(Applause) (Aplausos)