Spanish "Immersion"..or not so much

Hey everyone, hope all is well.

I have been in Madrid now for 2 weeks. I go a language school from Monday-Friday from 0900-1300 and I live in a shared flat with people from all-over the world. I find myself frustrated though as I don’t feel my Spanish is improving really that much at all, even though I’m actually in the country itself.

I sort of know why this is. In the beginning when I moved in, there was a guy who was just finishing the course at the language school and he could speak Spanish very well and I spoke only Spanish with him, as even if I wanted to speak English with him, he couldn’t really speak English. I felt my Spanish improving even in the first two days. I started being able to speak faster and faster without having to think about it because I was talking to this guy pretty much all the time. Then he left and currently in my flat there are four French people (only two of whom can speak a very very little Spanish) a dutch person and a german who can speak only maybe a bit more Spanish than the French people. These days I find myself not speaking Spanish at all in the flat because everyone just wants to speak English to make things easier…this hugely frustrates me to the point where I start to feel like i’m wasting my time here. It annoys me it’s gone from speaking Spanish every day with this guy…talking about philosophy, religion and politics with him in Spanish…to just speaking English because no-one else actually can/seems to want to speak Spanish. Of course the lessons at the school are all in Spanish but irrelevant to the fact I feel like i’m in class too low for my level, there is no real complex discussion with which ones level could develop…it’s pretty much all just talking about grammar in Spanish. It’s now gotten to the point where I feel like I speak so little Spanish every day that my level is getting worse. The only Spanish I have spoken in the last few days (bar at “school” ) has been small chat in shops whilst purchasing.

And so, I was wondering if anyone had any advice they could give me about how to actually try and immerse myself in Spanish language without just having to be stuck in my room all day listening to audio in which case I may aswell have stayed in Scotland.

I have not got much advice about this, but as a Scotsman, I figured you might be interested in reading this thread

Start reading from my second post.

In situations like the one you are in, it has always been frustrating to me, being a native speaker of English, that English is the dominant international language right now.

I’m learning French and, on language learning sites like lang-8.com, It seems that French English speakers want to show off to me that they can speak English, and so answer my questions, written in French, in English, just because It says “English” as my native language on my profile. Perhaps this is a peculiarity of French speakers… I’ve never had (Latin American) Spanish speakers do this to me and my Spanish is much, much worse than my French.

Everything is even worse when their English is incomprehensible.

I’m going to be in France for a month this summer for an “immersive” course. I’ll probably attempt to do socializing off the college campus, or else I’d bet everyone will just speak English to me…

@ Corin:
I know what you mean. This has happened to me as well and depending on the length and type of your stay you have various options to try and get out of that linguistic “cul de sac” :wink:

  1. I now normally try to contact people even before I go to the country. I do that through one or several of the language exchange platforms on the net. This has always worked out fine. I have met many interesting people whom I already knew a bit before I went to the country.

  2. If you stay for more than just a couple of weeks you can try and join a local club. That could be a sports club (I did some martial arts training in Japan and China for example, some very basic stuff but it helped to meet people), a discussion club or a group of people engaging in social activities in the broader sense of the term (in Latin America I worked with street children and handicapped people for example).

  3. If none of these options is viable for you, you can always go to a tapas bar. Just avoid the crowds of other foreigners. Personally, I have never had problems meeting and chatting up people at such bars. The Spanish usually are quite talkative and for what it’s worth in general they seem to prefer to speak Spanish (which doesn’t mean they won’t make an effort to speak English in case the conversation gets stuck). For guys, football has always been a great topic to start out with.

  4. You don’t seem to be happy with the group they put you in at your school, so your level already seems to be advanced. In that situation your flatmates won’t be of much help to you, especially not if they lack the kind of motivation that brought you to Spain. Unfortunately, most of these language courses are attended by younger kids whose parents sent them there or by some college students who are just trying to get some credits for their study programme. I have only met very few really motivated people in the classes and this is why I always tried to meet people outside of class.

  5. If you stay for a longer period of time, you might want to try to put an ad in a local paper or - even better - on the Internet where you look for people sharing your hobbies and interests. I did that during my first stay in Japan because I had a similar problem as you have now. After a week I had like a dozen of people I met on a regular basis. With some of these people I did a language exchange, with others I went on weekend excursions, went to the movies etc. Be open and let people know you are eager to share experiences.

  6. You can get a lot of passive input too, of course, by watching TV programmes, listening to radio broadcasts, but all this you could do at home as well. What makes a stay abroad so unique is the people you meet and for that you need to get out of that shared flat as often as possible. Especially in Madrid (for example in the Retiro) I found that the elderly were also quite interested in having a chat on a variety of topics. I have really found older people to be excellent and patient conversation partners.

The important thing is to stay away from the crowd of students of your language school unless they are as committed as you are. Even walking through the city for a couple of hours, getting yourself a drink and just eavesdropping (I know it is not very polite but an effective learning strategy;-)) will be of much more benefit to you than spending too much time with your flatmates.

Even though I’m afraid I could not provide you with an answer that actually “solves” your problem, I hope you’ll get an idea of how to make the best out of your stay. Most importantly, have fun!

@Corin

Firstly, I wouldn’t worry too much about your level after 2 weeks. In my experience it took more like 8 weeks of immersion before I started to see any visible gains in German. (And it was more like 8 months before I reached any kind of comfort zone.)

Secondly, you need to GET THE HELL OUT OF THAT FLAT.

I really seriously mean that! I personally knew someone at university who spent a whole academic year in Italy as an Erasmus exchange student; like you she was living in a flat where the common language was English, but at the end of the year she had made so little progress in spoken Italian that she was actually forced by the university to switch to a single hons degree which didn’t include any final year Italian.

Living in an English bubble is very likely going to KILL your efforts to become fluent in Spanish (although you may well be giving these guys some useful contact time in English…)

If you’re serious about Spanish, you need to get out of that flat. You would be better living on your own than being forced to spend most of your time mentally trapped in English.

@Corin.

What clubs are you a part of? I actually didn’t find Spaniards to be that nice and accommodating when I took classes at the Spanish university so all my friends were Latin American. I was part of a church youth group and met a great Mexican friend; (we were kind of like BFF’s) thus I spoke Spanish 100% of the time. Can you join a gym or some other activity?

How about moving to a host family? Is that a possibility? It is annoying when expatriats just speak their native tongue and don’t improve their target language but it is their choice.

Good luck and try to meet native speakers outside the “flat” as you Brits say. :slight_smile:

@ Corin - How long are you planning to stay in Spain?

@ Robert - " especially not if they lack the kind of motivation that brought you to Spain. Unfortunately, most of these language courses are attended by younger kids whose parents sent them there or by some college students who are just trying to get some credits for their study programme. I have only met very few really motivated people in the classes and this is why I always tried to meet people outside of class."

My experience was somewhat different. I went to a language school in Wien for a few months when I first started. Other than an old Russian couple who were on holiday, every single person in my class was unemployed and desperately trying to learn German for the sake of getting a job. They were definitely very motivated. In fact, other than the Russian couple, I was the only person there who actually had a job already.

Needing to learn a language to make money to survive–I would say that that is the biggest motivator!

So what Corin needs to do is to give all his money to charity so that he needs to learn Spanish to get a job to survive. Unfortunately 55% of young people in Spain are unemployed last I heard, so maybe this isn’t such a good idea.

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Those statistics are a little misleading; they include all the people that are studying in college, I believe. Although some people that were looking for jobs will be attending more higher-education programs to “wait out” the economic crisis.

But it is still darn high. Maybe if he meets somebody that he really likes or discovers a love for García Lorca poems, he will have similar motivation to know a lot of Spanish? Regardless, I think the threat of not having any money and being destitute is more of a motivation!

I should be staying here until August or there roundabouts… I am actually currently trying to join a gym to, and there is a football meet up page for people who live in Madrid and want to play football.

Definetly join the gym. I learned a lot of Spanish when I started going to the gym, and I didnt even join one outside of the US!

@djvlbass You learned Spanish at a gym? What gym did you go to?! That’s funny.

@Corin: you can’t get a home stay? I think those are best…and if there are a lot of family members they can introduce you to friends, then you get even more native speakers to talk to.

@cazasigiloso

You’re right - staying with a family is best (provided that one gets along with them, of course.) Failing that, living alone would actually be much better than living in an English bubble, IMO.

I find the whole thing pretty sad: why would someone go all the way to Spain just in order to give free 7/7 English immersion to guys from France and Holland!?

@ cazasigiloso: (…) I actually didn’t find Spaniards to be that nice and accommodating when I took classes at the Spanish university so all my friends were Latin American. (…)

I guess you find all types of people no matter where you go to. Cultural differences probably play a role too, but personally I have always found Spaniards to be very nice and helpful. They sometimes can come across as a bit “direct” but all in all I had a great time in Spain every time I went there. The only people I found a bit harsh from time to time was the service staff in restaurants but other than that I met lots of nice people.

(…) You learned Spanish at a gym? What gym did you go to?! That’s funny. (…)

You actually suggested he join a gym in your previous post :wink:
Besides, I’m sure you can make friends at a gym and go out for a drink etc.

@ Colin: (…) My experience was somewhat different. I went to a language school in Wien for a few months when I first started. Other than an old Russian couple who were on holiday, every single person in my class was unemployed and desperately trying to learn German for the sake of getting a job. They were definitely very motivated. (…)

That is a totally different situation, I think. The kind of courses that Corin attends probably mostly caters to students or holiday-makers. I guess the participants in your course (except for the Russian couple) were people from other EU countries (or asylum seekers with a working permit) trying to settle in Austria for economic reasons. These people certainly are highly motivated and if Corin were to share an apartment (flat) with people like them I’m sure he’d have ample opportunities to practise Spanish. So, yes, I think your situation was really different.

@ Jay: (…) You’re right - staying with a family is best (provided that one gets along with them, of course.) Failing that, living alone would actually be much better than living in an English bubble, IMO. (…)

I guess we all have had different experiences in this respect. To be honest, I think the benefits you supposedly get by staying with a host family are greatly overestimated unless you find a very open-minded family. Most of the families working with language schools take in young people for a few weeks. My experience in England and Russia for example has been that these are families who badly needed the little money they received for this kind of service. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are also ready to actually help the student with his language learning. This, however, is not really part of their “job” and they mostly make that quite clear in the documents you receive from the school as well. My personal experience with host families was mixed. Whenever I stayed for up to 4 weeks it was mediocre at best. The only time it really worked out great was when I stayed in Ecuador for 6 months. This may also have had to do with the fact that I worked with an NGO that was run by a member of the family.

For me, the best option now is a shared apartment with local singles or staying on my own in a place to which I can invite friends whenever I want. You are far less likely to get involved into any domestic quarrels, singles tend to have a large number of friends and they seem to have more spare time on their hands than parents (which is quite understandable). All this is based on my own personal experience, of course, and Corin will have to find his own way to get out of that deadlock he is in right now.

I’m sure he’ll be able to find a viable solution.

No, the American guy was saying that he spoke Spanish at a gym in the United States, not in Spain. He probably lives in a border state, but even then Spanish isn’t that widespread unless you are in a border CITY like McAllen, Texas.

@ cazasigiloso: (…) No, the American guy was saying that he spoke Spanish at a gym in the United States, not in Spain. (…)

I see, I stand corrected then :wink:

@Robert: “…I guess we all have had different experiences in this respect. To be honest, I think the benefits you supposedly get by staying with a host family are greatly overestimated unless you find a very open-minded family…”

Well, I did say that one would have to get along with the family :wink:

But you know, Robert, I think this situation that Corin is in is more dangerous (from a language-learning point of view) than many people dream. I mentioned in my earlier post that I personally know of someone who managed to spend a whole academic year in Italy without making any significant breakthrough in the language! Sadly this is far from unique. Tutors preparing exchange students always warn them that they will make little progress if they spend most of the time speaking English. But (from what I hear) they know that there will always be one or two students out of every ‘batch’ who will ignore the warnings. It comes as a sad shock to these guys to get back to their home university a year later and find that most of their fellow exchange students are now fluent in French, Spanish, or whatever, while they are still right where they started.

Sad, but that’s just the way it is.

@ Jay: (…) But you know, Robert, I think this situation that Corin is in is more dangerous … (…)

I totally agree with you. And, as for host families, it can be a great experience and it can turn out to be a nightmare. It is just like with so many other things in life. Besides, I guess it also depends on your own personal preferences. I now simply prefer to have my own bathroom etc. I also like the freedom I have when renting my own apartment and inviting over whoever I want to share my time with - no curfew, no asking for permission etc.

Maybe that has to do with my age. As a teenager I actually preferred staying with a family because it was some sort of a “safe haven”. But now I definitely prefer having my own place or sharing an apartment with people who are more or less my age (even though I had some great experiences with younger people as well; at the end of the day it is all a matter of whether people are eager to learn or not).

I have met quite a few people who have spent part of their studies at foreign universities and sometimes did not even reach the level of a dedicated learner who never set foot abroad. If you spend most of your time with people speaking your native tongue, your progress will be minimal (you might still benefit from some passive intake of the language spoken around you).

If you want to learn, you need to be serious about it and this involves taking some steps which might not be that popular or pleasant at the beginning. It might be hard at first to step out of your comfort zone and jump into a completely non-English (or non-German etc.) environment but it may be your only chance to really benefit from your stay abroad. I have only spent about 6 months in English speaking countries over the past 20 years (including holidays etc.) and I don’t think my English is any worse than that of some of my former fellow students who actually were lucky enough to spend a year or two studying at a university in a country where their target language is spoken (when I was a student, Austria was not yet a member of the EU and it was very hard to get a scholarship and my parents could have never afforded to send me abroad for such a long time).

Corin is in a great position to make a lot of progress, he just needs to get out of that “English only” environment.

@ Robert " guess the participants in your course (except for the Russian couple) were people from other EU countries (or asylum seekers with a working permit) trying to settle in Austria for economic reasons."

Actually all but one other was in Austria because their husband/wife had a job here.