Here's a quote from that blog post that Jeff linked to that Steve would probably agree with:

It’s as if there is a Soup Nazi culture now in Wikipedia. There are throngs of deletion happy users, like grumpy old gatekeepers, tossing out customers and articles if they don’t comply to some new prickly hard-nosed standard. It used to be if an article was short, someone would add to it. If there was spam, someone would remove it. If facts were questionable, someone would research it. The beauty of Wikipedia was the human factor — reasonable people interacting and collaborating, building off each other’s work. It was important to start stuff, even if it wasn’t complete. Assume good faith, neutral point of view and if it’s not right, {{sofixit}}. Things would grow.

Here's a quote from that blog post that Jeff linked to that Steve would probably agree with:

It’s as if there is a Soup Nazi culture now in Wikipedia. There are throngs of deletion happy users, like grumpy old gatekeepers, tossing out customers and articles if they don’t comply to some new prickly hard-nosed standard. It used to be if an article was short, someone would add to it. If there was spam, someone would remove it. If facts were questionable, someone would research it. The beauty of Wikipedia was the human factor — reasonable people interacting and collaborating, building off each other’s work. It was important to start stuff, even if it wasn’t complete. Assume good faith, neutral point of view and if it’s not right, {{sofixit}}. Things would grow.

LingQ är ett community och en språkinlärningsmetod [1], lanserad 2007 av kanadensaren Steve Kaufmann. Webbplatsen är just nu tillgänglig på och för flera språk, inklusive svenska.

Metod

Metoden bygger dels på Steve Kaufmanns egna erfarenheter som har gett honom kunskaper i elva språk, dels på inflytandet från två moderna lingvister - Stephen Krashen och Ivan Illitch.

Utifrån sin egen nivå väljs lektioner som finns i LingQ-biblioteket. De obekanta orden kan slås upp via en online-ordlista, sparas i sin egen personliga ordlista och till sist studeras närmare genom s.k. flashcards. Dessa ord förblir också markerade i samtliga texter ända tills man har lärt sig dem. Till varje text kommer en ljudfil i mp3-format.

Det går också att ladda upp texter och ljudfiler som andra medlemmar kan ta del av.

Man kan boka tid för samtal med en modersmålstalande via Skype och skicka in egna texter för rättning.

De språk som systemet hittills erbjuder är svenska, engelska, spanska, kinesiska, franska, japanska, portugisiska, ryska, tyska och italienska. Fler språk är under uppbyggnad.

Till communityt hör också ett forum där medlemmarna använder sina nyförvärvade språkkunskaper.

Källor

^ http://www.lingq.com

Se även

Språkinlärning

Externa länkar

The Linguist on Language

Lingosteve på Youtube

Stephen Krashen

Ilya Illitch

Press

"Linguistics and lumber strike chord" (Japan Times)

"You're never too old to learn a new language" (Japan Today)

"Web has way with words" (Ottawa Citizen)

Radio

Intervju - Radio Canada (franska)

Intervju - CBC/Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (engelska)

*****

Steve Kaufmann är en kanadensisk polyglot, författare,[1] prisbelönt[2][3] bloggare[4] och grundare av språkcommunityt LingQ.[5] Han talar för närvarande tolv språk i olika hög grad: kantonesiska, engelska, franska, tyska, italienska, japanska, koreanska, mandarin, portugisiska, ryska, spanska and svenska.[6][7]

Källor

^ Kaufmann, Steve (2005). The Way of the Linguist: A Language Learning Odyssey. AuthorHouse. ISBN 978-1420873290.

^ bab.la. "Top 10 Language Learning Blogs 2009". bab.la GmbH. Arkiverad från originalet den 2009-08-29. http://en.bab.la/news/top-10-language-learning-blogs-2009.html.

^ bab.la. "Top 100 Language Blogs 2009". bab.la GmbH. Arkiverad från originalet den 2009-08-29. http://en.bab.la/news/top-100-language-blogs-2009.html.

^ Steve Kaufmann. "The Linguist on Language". Blogs.com. Arkiverad från originalet den 2009-08-29. http://www.thelinguist.blogs.com/.

^ Steve Kaufmann. "My Method". The Linguist Institute, Inc.. Arkiverad från originalet den 2009-08-29. http://www.thelinguist.com/en/en/my-method/.

^ Tatiana Fanti. "Podcast Café Brasil Vira Conteúdo de Site Americano". SEGS. Arkiverad från originalet den 2009-08-29. http://www.segs.com.br/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24678&Itemid=177.

^ Windsor Star. "Language websites are a growing trend". Canada.com. Arkiverad från originalet den 2009-08-29. http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/business/story.html?id=5fcf1664-2f8d-41a4-9e73-4f045c7f07f5.

(Both can be found if you check Google's cached versions)

But hey, we're not the only ones being deleted... http://www.andrewlih.com/blog/2007/07/10/unwanted-new-articles-in-wikipedia/

Can you post a copy of what you said. I am curious.

Oh yes, I have copies as of last night.

It seems as if they're particularly sceptic to first-time writers, and their claim that the topics don't have much coverage on the web...., have they tried Google?

The articles on the Dutch wikipedia will also be deleted shortly. Oh well.

I'm planning to make one for the spanish wikipedia, but it will take time because not even pimsleur nor rossetta nor livemocha... etc have an entry. So I'll have to practice and make those first!. I'll let you know when I succeed.

I have only edited a few small things in articles so first is to figure out how to make one from scratch.

Jeff, Do you still have copies of the Wikipedia entry that were deleted?

What did you say? In any case, your contributions here are great and you are, no doubt, hugely appreciated.

Both articles deleted! Two days ago I got banned from a blog. It seems I'm not popular... ;)

It shall be interesting to see if this "grass roots movement" eventually succeeds. Like Illuminati taking over Wikipedia without them knowing it ;) (oops, I've read too much Dan Brown lately)

I will try.

Actually, the Dutch one is still there, but has "Deze pagina is genomineerd voor verwijdering". Maybe if a Dutch speaker were to add the same links Jeff put up, the site might remain there.

Another good idea might be to add on Ivan Illitch's and Krashen's page in a relevant area that lingq is a learning system based on what they've studied and produced.

That's great, I'll include those links.

While I am not impartial, obviously, I believe that the LingQ experiment is unique and valuable for people to know about. It is one of the few places I know where a structured approach to input based learning (a la Krashen) is combined with Ivan Illitch's concept of convivia or learning communities.

With regard to coverage in the news, Jeff, you can refer to the "in the news" link on my blog for some of the coverage LingQ has received.

whether LingQ is for profit or free is really irrelevant.

I got a "relevancy check" note, so I've rephrased the language, added a few more external links according to the format Wikipedia wants, a few categories, added an info box (similar to what LiveMocha has)... God knows if it will stay there.

The reason for deletion:

WEBSITES:

*Wikipedia is not meant to advertise. All articles with the purpose of advertising a website will be deleted.

*Wikipedia is not a startpage, that's why not every website needs its own article.

*Websites deserve an article within wikipedie if it is relevant:

For instance because it is very popular and/or has won several awards.

Because it's a milestone in de development of the internet

*Websites of companies, newspapers, etc do not get a special article.

*Relevance can be measured by the Alexa-test. The website has to be part of the first 100.000 websites.

Source: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Relevantie#Internetwebsites (in dutch)

Steve,

Here they mention when a speed-deletion will be applied: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Te_verwijderen_pagina's/Direct_te_verwijderen (in dutch)

In geval van werkelijke onzin of als een artikel alleen maar (grove) fouten bevat kan het hier genomineerd worden voor onmiddellijke verwijdering.

In case of real nonsense or if an article contains large mistakes, it can be nominated for speed-deletion.

@Chris: Yes, there is advice before posting text, there are tutorials etc which I had read beforehand. This morning I registered, put up the article and within minutes received two things on "my Wikipedia page", ie not an e-mail to my usual address. 1. a welcome note with details of what kind of support is available and 2. a notification that my text had been deleted and that I should not re-submit it. They also mentioned one could rewrite an article and furnish appropriate sources (I had only given the LingQ site). They want a text which fits into their encyclopaedia mode.

Yes there are guidelines. One point is to have reliable sources. But there is no source where LingQ is mentioned beside the LingQ-Sites itself. In the blog of Steve is a debate about this. If anyone found such a "reliable source" is a chance to get LingQ into Wikipedia.

In different countries they could deal in different manner with this subject.

Rosetta Stone for example is not mentioned in the German Wikipedia, but in the English one. Pimsleur is only as the "Pimsleur method" in the German Wikipedia.

I can only assume the reason the Swedish version has stayed up is that less people moderate it. I heard about a guy putting up a nonsense Swedish article a while ago which actually stayed there for about 6 months before being removed.

Assuming you register with an e-mail address, what is so difficult about them sending an e-mail requesting it be modified according to whatever guidelines they set out? That way, if there is no change within, say, 24 hours, it could then be deleted. It's not as if these articles are obscene or deliberately obnoxious.

Anyway, I don't want to start a debate here. In any case, is there a list of guidelines that must be adhered to when writing an article?

It's already deleted. Well, it stayed for about 2-4 minutes..... Would anyone else want to give a German version a try - perhaps we should translate Jeff's text and use that for all languages?

I've just put up a German version. Let's see how long it'll remain there. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LingQ

Great stuff Jeff. Well done!

For what it's worth, I added a Swedish entry several hours ago - http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/LingQ (it's still there!)

Vincent, what is the difference between marked for deletion and "speed deleted"?

I don't see any dutch here except for in the forum area.

That is great Vincent. At least yours got marked for deletion. My attempt was just "speed deleted", gone, no questions asked.

I tried to add an article on LingQ at the Dutch Wikipedia. Here is all I wrote:

LingQ is een online gemeenschap en methode om talen te leren [1], gelanceerd in 2007. Het is voortgekomen uit 'The Linguist'[2]. Voorlopig is de website beschikbaar in 12 talen waaronder ook het Nederlands.

Which means:

LingQ is an online community and language learning method and has been online since 2007.It originates from 'The Linguist'. Now the website is available in 12 langauges, including Dutch.

My entry is marked for deletion.

I am updating the article right now.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/LingQ

sorry for the three posts in a row but one more thing...

The wikipedia page for the libertarian party of Great Britain says that it only has 314 members, so lingq is plenty big enough...

also someone who knows what they're doing should also link lingq's page to other pages like krashen's and maybe the natural method page... ect...

also using articles from good sources on the page would help it stick too. I'm not sure who's written about lingq though. I remember the Libertarian Party of Great Britain was having trouble getting a wikipedia page up when they got started... haha

Also you're not allowed to do it Steve. Sort of anyway. It's considered taboo to edit your own pages or the pages of things you're involved in.

It sort of did sound like an ad by the way... I think. You have to write in a way that says "Lingq is a learning system that claims to.... blah blah"

Perhaps if you only put a little bit about LingQ on Wikipedia they wouldn't object. A short objective paragraph with a hyperlink. If they allow it, more could be added later.

Anybody here can upload the text again, and if it gets deleted it's possible to request it being added, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles

By the way, I wasn't implying that the reason for setting up a page would be to promote LingQ, but rather I can see why some people would make use of it for that reason. I would encourage trying to appeal, but if it turns out to be a real hassle, it might be worth waiting another six months or so, perhaps, until even more people join and the system develops further. But I mean really, there should be enough to show now to warrant a Wikipedia page...

To a certain extent that's understandable, since Wikipedia's purpose isn't (and shouldn't be) soley to promote products, but while LingQ may not be as popular as Rosetta Stone or Livemocha, surely it has enough of a following by now? How popular is popular enough, I wonder.

I looked around and they say that they don't want pages created to popularize a site or product, they only want pages talking about sites that are already popular. That could be the reason why. Not enough people know about us unlike the Livemocha's and Pimsleur's. Still pretty weak...

Their appeal process is impossible to figure out. This is the same kind of blind arbitrary censorship that many internet forums practice. Why Live Mocha and not LingQ? Go figure.

Weird. I would keep at it. I think they have some sort of appeal process.

I started editing a LingQ page. See below. I then went to lunch. Upon my return I was told that the page had been removed because it was advertizing. Are these people joking?

Look up Live Mocha and Rosetta Stone (software), Pimselur learning system on Wikipedia. I they had said that my draft was incomplete, that would have have been one thing, but to say it has been removed because it is an advertizement?????

I am very suspicious about all the free non-commercial posturing on the web and this just confirms it. I wonder what my next move is or whether it really matters. I do not want to put a lot of effort into making the entry conform to Wikipedia's format only to have it removed again.

My entry was as follows.

LingQ is an online community and language learning method , created by Steve Kaufmann and his son Mark, who live in West Vancouver, Canada. The learning methodology is based on Steve Kaufmann's own experience in learning to speak 11 languages, as well as the influence of two important modern educators. These are Stephen Krashen, who emphasizes the crucial role of meaningful input in language acquisition; and Ivan Illitch, who proposed the creation of convivial learning communities to replace formal schooling.

LingQ members come from all continents and countries of the world. They create language content for each other, help each other, exchange language lessons with each other, and encourage each other. As a result, learners are able to choose from a constantly growing library of language content, graded by level of difficulty, in ten different languages. This content is available for free download, to listen to and read. At present, these languages are English, Spanish, Mandarin, French, Japanese, Portuguese, Russian, German, Swedish, and Italian.

The LingQ community is encouraged to create "LingQs" in order to better notice the words, phrases and patterns of the language. In this way each member is constantly building up a personal database, which generates Flash Cards, statistical records of activity and achievement, and other learning functions customized to each learner.

Grammar instruction and error correction are available from member tutors but are considered less important than motivation, mutual encouragement and constant listening and reading and reviewing of words and phrases.

The term LingQ is a play on the word link. Language learning is considered a process of creating links; between words, sounds, meaning and people,and eventually between neurons as new language skills are acquired.

Steve Kaufmann has written a book about language learning called The Way of the Linguist, A Language Learning Odyssey. He maintains a blog called The Linguist on Language, and has a channel at Youtube explaining his language learning philosophy.

This is a good idea but I think the intention of Chris was that you create your own Wiki for LingQ. The software wikipedia is made with is open source. You can use the software to create your own dictionary. On the Internet you will find a lot of such wikis.

Steve,

As Berta said, it can be a free for all. I see it as good becasue it is another port of entry for potential site members, despite unfair criticsms that might occasionally be left uncontested on the page.

Steve anyone can edit and anyone can re-edit it too, so you can have control over it.

Some articles are a war field hahahah

I think too that wikipedia is a good idea for LingQ

dooo,

Is that a problem? How do Live Mocha Rosetta Stone etc, control what is said on their page?

Good idea, just bear in mind that on Wkipedia, any registered user can edit any site.

I do not know how Wikipedia works but here is a start for a LingQ page.

All suggestions and advice welcome.

LingQ is an online community and language learning method , based on the pioneering principles of Stephen Krashen, who stressed the crucial role of meaningful input in language acquisition. At LingQ, learners can choose from a wide variety of authentic language content, graded by level of difficulty, to listen to and read.

LingQ employs its own unique functionality which helps learners notice words, phrases and patterns and thereby learn them naturally. LingQ also makes use of statistics to record learners' activity and achievement.

The members of the LingQ community create language content for each other, tutor each other and correct each other's writing. However, at LingQ, grammar instruction and error correction are considered less important than motivation, mutual encouragement and the availability of interesting learning content at an appropriate level of difficulty.

The term LingQ is a play on the word link. Language learning is considered a process of creating links; between words, sounds, meaning and people,and eventually between neurons as new language skills are acquired.

LingQ offers 10 languages, English, Spanish, Mandarin, French, Japanese, Portuguese, Russian, German, Swedish, and Italian.

I could hardly believe that it didn't exist. But this is what Wikipedia says:

"You may create the page "Lingq",..." To me it sounds like a great idea, and it could be put into different language versions.