Difference between ~는 것 and ~기 ?
Could you go over the distinctions between ㅁ/음 vs 기 vs 은/는 것?
That's pretty much it guil, but when you say it's used with (DV) and (AV) make sure you remember that I'm referring to the verb AFTER the verb you just formed into a gerund (or a clause, or a noun, depending on how you look at it.
한국말 하기 힘들어요 (A)
한국말 하는 것이 힘들어요 (B)
I'd say (A) is definitely a lot more natural, and in that case I used the ~기 grammar in context with a DV.
한국말 하기 좋아요 - natural
한국말 하는 것을 좋아해요 - natural
한국말 하기 좋아해요 - a little odd sounding
한국말 하는 것이 좋아요 - this is actually okay, but I'd go with the previous example per a few native speaker's recommendations
Make sense? In these example of course 좋아요 is a DV and 좋아해요 is my action verb.
Hi there... so 기 is used with Descriptive verbs (DV) while 는것 with Action verbs (AV)?
BTW nice description, i was just going through the posts and realized I learned something new...
Yeah bro, ㅁ/음 was one of my biggest pains when learning Korean ~ and honestly still is. Mainly because of it's lack of use in speech and use in writing. Hit me up on Skype if you ever have anything aching with grammar haha
exchode.. THANKS! That all seems to make perfect sense 0_o. things are starting to click!
Actually the way you explained it is probably the best explanation I've come across to explain the differences. Especially the part where you say " 기 changes a verb so that it can be described " and "은/는 것 is used when don't want your final verb to DESCRIBE the verb" . That just makes everything clear.
Before I wasnt 100% sure ( more like 70%). Now I'm more like 97% sure of how these are used I understood the explanation that Alex gave and it was pretty much what i understood before but i couldn't grasp the concept entirely. I've read/heard other grammar explanations for this before but mostly explained by koreans who couldnt entirely explain the differences.
I haven't learned about ㅁ/음 yet.. Maybe I've seen it while reading but haven't taken notice yet. Ill keep an eye out for it.
Actually Alex's explanation was very good - one thing that I would add to that... (by the way, these are all called gerunds)
기 changes a verb so that it can be described. 이 문법을 설명하기 어렵다 is a perfect example, I already have a verb with an object, but now I need to describe that entire action as being 어렵다.
은/는 것 - Literally changes whatever you attach it to into a noun. This can now be modified with subject as object markers as you please.
NOW here is the big difference, the 은/는 것 is used when don't want your final verb to DESCRIBE the verb. For example:
I really believe that you have been cheating on me.
나는 너가 바람을 피운다는 것을 알고 있단다
I know that God exists.
저는 하나님께서 계신다는 것을 알고 있습니다.
Compared to 하기를 알고 있다 - that doesn't really feel natural. But do you notice that I had a primary subject that was me and not God or "you?" Some more examples...
저는 한국말 하는 것이 어렵습니다 - NO (Two subjects can add a lot of confusion here)
저는 한국말하기 어렵습니다 - Yes (Me speaking Korean is difficult [doesn't sound right in English hehe])
저한테 한국말 하는 것이 어렵습니다 - Yes (Korean[speaking thing] is difficult to me)
저는 너가 한국말을 잘하기를 바랍니다 - Yes (I hope that you speak Korean well)
저는 너가 하국말을 잘하는 것을 바랍니다 - NO (I hope you Korean speaking thing well [awkward huh?])
Keroro, wait till you learn ㅁ/음 which is another one of these gerunds. I hope I provided enough examples ~ gerunds are extremely difficult and sometimes Koreans don't even use them right. Look for specific sentences that you are wondering about and post them up. Between both of our explanations you should have a better feel for it. Just keep your eyes open for this grammar and pretty soon it will become natural to you.
Hey Alex Thanks for the info.
I guess I already knew what you explained above. Was just trying to see if there was anything I was missing... I dont spend time studying korean grammar much. Maybe just skim through it once in a while and even then the explanations for grammar rules aren't very good. Theres ALOT of other examples between grammar points that are just REALLY REALLY similar in korean. I suppose over time you just get used to them.
anyways thanks for the quick reply.
I'm no grammarian, but here's my take on it.
~기 is the equivalent to verb+(ing).
설명하기 어렵다 - It's difficult to explain (lit. explaining is difficult).
This pattern requires some other verb at the end to make it a complete phrase. It can also be used in the case of "Learning Korean" would be translated to "한국어를 배우기".
~는 것 is also like verb+(ing), but it has a very different feel to it. It is much more commonly used, and has the effect of "the act of" or "the idea of" as well as "the thing that is".
설명하는 것 어렵다 - Explaining is difficult (lit. the act of explaining is difficult). This is a more focused statement that also has a stronger relative meaning.
그는 말하는 것 잘 하지만 쓰는 것 못한다 - He is good at (the act of) speaking, but he can't write very well.
I'm guessing exchode can give a much better explanation of all of this; I know all of this grammar but I have trouble explaining it since I've never done so before :P