Интонация русского языка

Learning Russian Forum - Ask a Tutor
1

Привет всем

Kто-то знает где я могу найти информацию об этой теме?. я прочитал что на русском есть 4 разных интонаций. ик1 ик2 ик3 ик4. я хотел бы больше знать об этом или делать какие нибудь упражнения чтобы улучшить мое произношение.

Спасибо

PS: Евгений может быть у вас есть урок про это?)

English: somebody knows where i can find information about russian intonation? i´ve read that in Russian there are 4 different intonations possibkle: ik1 ik2 ik3 ik4. I would like to know more about it, or find some exercises for improve my pronunciation, thank you

1 Like
2

Я думаю, что трудно писать об интонации, как трудно писать о музыке. Её, как и музыку, нужно просто слушать и, по возможности, подражать.
В русской интонации нет ничего сложного - вопросительная и восклицательная совпадает с европейской, а утвердительная более плавная и похожа на легкие волны.
Если что-то придумаю для статьи, напишу.
Наверное, вы найдёте \что-то в Интернете.
Я его плохо знаю, потому что редко пользуюсь, кроме разговоров по скайпу.

1 Like
3

Hi ! =)))

I do understand why Yevgeny can not answer your question! :wink: The reason is very simple, the truth is, Russians, being native speakers, do not even notice how much complicated Russian intonation is! =)))

I can see you’ve been doing some Chinese, so, Russian patterns for the unstressed syllables very closely follow the rules of the unstressed or neutral, fifth tone in Chinese! :wink: As for the 4 different intonations, I guess it’s about the four overall intonation patterns for the sentences, not the intonations within a sentence! :wink:

1 Like
4

Just as a reference hint for you as you’ve been doing some Chinese: If I say in Russian ‘May I?’ with the Chinese intonation of May1 I5? - it’s a normal question in Russian and the last unstressed syllable goes substantially lower than the first stressed syllable (just recall sequence of tones in Chinese, i.e. tone 1 followed by a neutral tone 5) ! :wink:

I can not possibly say the same ‘May I?’ with a Chinese intonation pattern of May2 I5? as it sounds much feminine for a question in Russian! :wink:

But I can definitely say this ‘May I!’ as an exclamation or confirmation using the Chinese intonation pattern of May4 I! as it exactly follows the intonation pattern for the exclamation or confirmation in Russian! =)))

The Russian for all these sentence examples implied by me was, “Можно?” and “Можно!” =))

Notice, the explanation for the rules of the 5th tone in Chinese is very rarely explained, but you probably know that the exact 5th tone in each case depends on the tone of the preceding syllable, wich very much closely followes the rules for the similar syllable sequence in Russian, strangely enough! :wink:

1 Like
5

Никогда даже представить себе не мог, что в родном для меня русском есть какие-то разные интонации с уже присвоенными им номерами. Кроме вопросительной и утвердительной, ничего сразу на ум не приходит. В школе их точно не изучают.
Мне кажется, достаточно слушать речь носителей языка, чтобы подражать им.
Здесь, как при игре на музыкальном инструменте, лучше услышать и попытаться повторить, чем пытаться понять написанное словами. Так, точное количество нот при исполнении тремоло не указывается, играется по ощущению.

1 Like
6

Hi！＝））

Just as I wrote above, believe me, intonation in Russian is extremely complicated! This is the only reason it is normally never tought in any of the educational institutions! :wink:

I gave him a similar Chnese tone pattern as a reference to follow, as at least it’s a fairly good means to denote various intonations for the syllables! :wink:

Tremolo playing is a way more simple thing, as you only have to keep a complete beat to make it a completed bar pattern; but you can’t possibly play an absolutely ad lib tremolo, anyways! :wink:

1 Like
7

yes is complicated because for example there are 4 entonations, and 2entonations possible for questions, here i gonna show:

ik 2: when you have some question with words such as где, когда, сколько. (called “question words”) then the strong entonation goes to this “question word”. Example: ик2; ГДЕ ты работаешь? (the entonation goes to question word GDE)

ik3. when you dont have any of this “question words”, the strong entonation goes by rule to the last word of the question. example: ик3. завтра РАБОТАЕШЬ? (there is no “question word” so entonation goest to the last word, rabotaesh)

Hard to explain only with letters without sounds, but native speakers can pronounce this 2 sentences and notice how they put entonation in different places.

i only found this website but is not so good explained and wihtout any exercises

I´ve started to look at this system after knowing that polyglot Luca trains entonations of every language he studies. And he is got one of most native close pronuncation i´ve heard in English, Spanish, Russian. So that makes me thing maybe is worth learning it.

1 Like
8

Ah, that’s where it becomes really interesting! :wink: Just look! :wink:

Yes, it is possible to pronounce the “where” question with an intonation of “WHERE do you work?” or, in Chinese tones it’s ‘where4 do5 you5 work5?’ with the quick tone 4 pitch at the very first word! =))) This intonation pattern is also possible in Russian, BUT it serves a very special purpose of which I’ll tell a bit later. Strangely enough, this is NOT the normal intonation for this type of sentence! =)))

The normal one would be like, “Where do you WORK?” or, in Chinese tones, ‘where1 do1 you1 work4?’ The reason behind this difference is, the first intonation pattern makes an emphatic, or you may call it, a shifted stress to a question word implying the following idea in the question, “I do know you work, but what I want to know is WHERE EXACTLY?” Whereas the second intonation pattern for question in Russian is just an ordinary unemphatic question implying, “I’m just qurious where you work, is all…” :wink:

As for the second example, “Tomorrow working?” they are right but to show you how it exactly sounds in Russian I need to use the Chinese tones used for Cantonese, not Mandarin Chinese, as they have 6 tones instead of 4 plus neutral one in Mandarin! :wink:

The third tone in Cantonese is the so-called ‘mid-flat tone’ and this is what is used here in Russian, i.e. ‘To3-mor3-row3 work1 ing5?’

Notice a very peculiar feature for Russian questions, the last STRESSED syllable goes to tone 1 but the REMAINING UNSTRESSED ones go to tone 5, i.e. MUCH lower, and this is something that Russian native speakers never notice! :wink: As you could hear from Yevgeny, they all think that the intonation in questions goes JUST upwards! :wink: No, it’s not all THAT simpe! =)))

Notice also, that you may make an emphatic stress shift with the first word stressed instead of the second one which would imply, 'Is it TOMORROW as well, that you work?" The Chinese tone pattern would be like ‘to3 mor1 row5 work5 ing5?’ Pay attention to an almost identical pitch of the remaining UNSTRESSED syllables after the LAST stressed syllable which goes to tone 1 ! =)))

I watched Luca’s Russian, and also my favorite Tagalog explanations of his! =))) He makes mistakes, not very often, but you have to double-check all the time what and how he explains! :wink:

9

Just for you to understand what I’m trying to explain! :wink:

You surely think, musically speaking, just in a 1/2 tone division of an octave pattern, right? :wink: Ever tried to train your ear to discern at least 1/4 of a tone, i.e. 1/24 of an octave? :wink: And how about 1/72 of an octave? :wink: Thinking these octave divisions do not exist? :wink: Belive me, they do and they are rather wide spread! :wink:

Hint: Just try to play any fretless instrument, you’ll immediately feel what I’m talking about! :wink:

10

“Завтра работаешь?” may be pronounced 2 ways depending on the meaning you need.
“Завтра РАБОТАЕШЬ?” means the main thing you would like to know is wheter you work or don’t work tomorrow.
“ЗАВТРА работаешь?” the main interest is in the day you work: tomorrow or not.
I can immagine how the same questions may be asked with an intonation of surprise. Does this mean these are those 4 intonations?

11

By the way, did you notice that, just as I explained, the voice pitch in patterns 3 and 4, though these are questions, goes DOWNWARDS? =)))) Based on the Phonetics, part 3 — LearnRussian link you provided! :wink:

12

As soon as I saw this post I tried to find a Russian textbook I bought in 1989 in London. In it these patterns were illustrated, by using graphs, dotted lines and numbers. I found it just now: On page 15 of the Textbook of “Russian for Everybody” (1987) published by Russky Yakzyk Publishersб Moscow. Русский язык для всех. Учебник. Под редакцией В Костомарова. The system is then applied in the lesson following the explanation, up to p. 75, towards the end they only show the appropriate pattern number above the words.

They call the patters IC1, IC2, IC3, IC4

1 Like
13

Goodness, they speak quickly in that lesson. Hard to pick up any differences when I’m this new to the language.

1 Like
14

Hi! =))

In which one, may I ask? Should you need any help, please, do not hesitate to notify me, it’s no problem for me at all to help! :wink:

15

I am very skeptical to all theese tables and pictures which try to describe the sounds os the letters and the intonation in any language, not only in Russian.
Just listen to the Russian speakers and try to repeat them - this is the best method for the learning of pronunciation.
All these IC1, IC2 etc are a nonsense for me.

1 Like
16

I agree with evgueny40. Russian intonation isn’t very hard to learn, provided you start with audio programs that make you repeat from the beginning. I started with Pimsleur and Michel Thomas. Both provided explanation of intonation; Michel Thomas gave more thorough explanations, but both gave many excellent example sentences to repeat. It’s nothing like Chinese intonation, so don’t go down that road regardless of the popularity of the polyglot who’s trying to make you do it.

Stress is a whole different ballgame. There are some patterns, but you will often have to memorize where the stress is. Much more of a problem than intonation.

1 Like
17

Hi ! =)))

Believe it or not, intonation is always a sort of music and thus can be treated and explained as such! =))

What I was trying to approximately explain here is in no way intended for those who do not have a slightest idea of the fact that music can be and is normally explained and written using such a notion as music notation! :wink:

If it’s hard to imagine for some people that music can be written on a sheet of paper there’s hardly anything I could help them with! :wink:

18

Looking at the notations in “Russian for Everybody” reminded me of the way our music teacher would underline a melody by using her hands in a wave-like motion, much like a conductor directs an orchestra. :slight_smile:

1 Like
19

Hi ! =)))

Exactly! =)) You DO see the point! =))) Nobody would say, I guess, that the music teacher is a fool to frenzically wave her hands explaining and underlining the melodic line, would they? :wink: Neither is an orchestra conductor! :wink:

The fact that somebody never used any music notation in their lives does not necessarily mean it does not exist! :wink:

The same is with Chinese tone notation! =))) The fact that somebody does not know there exist several types of this notation does not necessarily mean it can not be used to denote the intonation patterns, or, rather, the changes in voice pitch while pronouncing sentences! :wink:

Ignorance and illiteracy has never been the best friend for study process, I know this from my own experience! :wink:

20

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. I’m saying using IPA like annotation to learn Russian intonation is overkill. Just start out with audio programs that explain it, and in the case of Russian, that’s enough.

1 Like