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What is this "clicking point" exactly?I've heard about how it makes speech effortless and the effort required to learn/listen is significantly reduced.Luca's full-circle translation method is designed to shoot for the clicking point but since I do most input-based activities, would that be sufficient to attain a similar snowballing level- even without ease of speech?

I'd find it a little surprising if going out to activate your language knowledge does more for your listening skills as opposed to merely listening a lot.

I am sure that once you reach a certain point in your learning, say low intermediate, it is to your advantage to engage in more talking. For one thing you learn to talk better, but also the kind of listening you do in real conversations often has more resonance than listening to audio material.

I don't know what the clicking point really refers too, however. I find that there are frequent points in my journey when I say, wow, I did that. I understood. I read the whole newspaper and there were few words I did not know. I held up my end of a conversation.

I have experienced this in the last languages I have learned, Russian, Czech and Romanian, although I did not speak much. It is not because I didn't want to speak, it was just easier to find the time to do input activities.

Another consideration is what we enjoy doing. I enjoy reading and listening to content about history and politics. I looked forward to it daly in Czech and Russian, and can't wait until I reach that level in Korean. I am not so motivated to do the translations that Luca does.

I do believe that constant exposure to interesting content is a solid plan to building comprehension and eventually speech. However, the Epiphany Point baffles me because the people who have experienced it often make it out to be like it's an overnight thing. As in one day, you can't speak or understand very well-but in the next day, everything suddenly falls into place and they can use the language much better. Such people generally claim that it only happens once per language.

Luca discusses it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8oz6ad2o1w
If memory serves, in some other video, he says it would take 6~12 months to reach the E point with 30~60min of daily quality study. I suppose this means his 3 phases do not necessarily refer to the European Framework.

Oh, I've been meaning to ask about how to learn to recognize Chinese characters, for Japanese especially. I currently do not study Kanji in isolation but in words and context rather. Eventually, many words do fall into my sight vocabulary but before that, I generally run back and forth with the dictionary provided at LingQ or another source since I do not use any memory devices made for artificially "identifying" the characters based on its elements/primitives.

Just had a look at that video, Luca said the Epiphany Point is between C1 and C2 on the CEFR scale. It´s going to take much longer than 30-60mins per day for 6-12months.....I would think closer to 2-3 hours+ per day for 1 year+?

I noticed that his chart uses the same titles as in the European Framework. However, he also mentions even after hitting the E point, it's still a long way to fluency. Fluency begins at B2EF to my understanding so he can't be meaning the EF. Fluency consists of both language skill and language knowledge but his method focuses on developing language skill first, which is what most people don't do.

Luca said in the video that in his opinion one is fluent at the Epiphany Point (he also said the EP is between C1 and C2) despite having more to learn. He may believe that you are fluent well before this point (~B2?) but, he doesn't say this in the video. He is distinguishing the EP from fluency and does not say that they are the same stage/level. What do you mean Language skill? Do you mean 4 skills of reading, writing, listening and speaking or something else?

Language learning is too individual to make these kinds of generalizations. Few people achieve C1 let alone C2. We all have different goals and needs in our language study.

I would say that I am a comfortable C level only in French, yet I derive immense satisfaction from all of the languages that I speak, and have had moments where I feel wow, look at me. There are different kinds of epiphany moments, like feeling really happy that I understood every word of the Russian in the opening ceremonies in Sochi, yet in Russian my listening is B2 and my speaking B1. If I had the need and opportunity to speak more, I would improve.

I have had the odd evening where I felt fluent in speaking Russian, or even Czech for that matter, was that an epiphany moment. I could have another encounter where I struggled to speak. Maybe I don't understand the concept of epiphany moments.

Thanks Kimo, I find that I get to this point somewhere between B1 and B2. There are even some false epiphany moments and they feel great too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8oz6ad2o1w

In the comments section of the youtube video link for this video, Luca replied to somebody and said teh following

"@showbread135 The E point happens much later. As far as ASSIMIL is concerned, you should reach a B1 level at the end of the second book (or at the end of the entire course if there is only one tome). The E point happens between C1 and C2 (if are wondering what these letters look for Common European Framework of Reference for Languages in Wikipedia). Take care! :-) Luca"

This would seem to agree with ASSIMIL's claims of B2 territory, as in you can tackle B2 material after ASSIMIL. However, in Luca's words, the E point is between C1 and C2 (and not somebody that is a B2 that is tackling C1 material). So, my understanding is that the person would need to be a C1 to experience this.

As far as I know Luca has successfully passed C2 exams in English, German, Spanish and French, possibly others. I think we could learn a lot from him here. Perhaps there is still a specific epiphany point at such high levels. that we are not aware of if we have not reached these levels previously. I, for one am not autonomous in my learning but I don't seem to need much help when I read. Is that past the EP in reading? Maybe, maybe not but I think I 'm not far off.

I wonder if this EP is a comfort point where all your hard work final kicks in? You can speak without regular grammatical mistakes and you can also finish all your sentences without having to think your way to the finish of the sentence. I know that I often start sentences and have to wriggle my way to the end of the sentence if I choose the wrong espression to begin with :) Anyway, interesting things to think about!





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdK0FSLq3cE&list...
Lucas basically achieved the E point within one year for Polish with just 30~60 min of study a day, 2 hours max. He calls the E point "effective fluency" though not "perfect". I'm not so sure if that can be called C level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SH2U_rO6c&list...
He mentions here that after hitting the point where effortless learning and usage of the language is achieved(6~12 months), it'll take you until the 18th~24th month until you are really good.

Red, this makes more sense to me.

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