Hello Steve

Firstly I have only recently just discovered this site and apologies if this has been asked before.

I am at a lower intermediate level in Russian (I am an adult learner who took my A-level in it in the UK 7-8 years ago). The biggest problem I find in Russian (especially when trying to use authentic material e.g. newspapers) is that whilst I often translate/understand all the individual words in sentence, I don’t really understand the meaning. This is particularly the case when there are lots of small words in a sentence. This may be because
· My grammar is very poor
· I’ve leaned lists of individual words in isolation and don’t really understand their context.
· There didn’t seem to be that much intermediate material for people who have grasped the basics (particularly a few years ago). Trying to bridge the gap between beginner and competent user seems more difficult for English speakers in this very grammatical language.
· I need to move away from trying to translate word for word.

I since ‘parked’ my Russian and more recently I have started leaning Spanish, and whilst I am at a more basic level, I don’t find the above so much of a problem. In fact I probably have more success reading articles in Spanish than Russian. I’m going to concentrate on Spanish for the next 6-12months (where I can feel myself making real progress, though I can’t speak). But later on I intend to re-start Russian.

I was just wondering whether you, or any of your readers had any advice for someone getting through the intermediate stage? It is just a case of prolonged exposure and then hopefully it will come? Do I really need to try and improve my grammar, because just trying to learn more words may not help me progress much?

Thanks a lot for such a great site and for your very informative posts.

Anthony

Pay attention to the word endings. You cannot just look up words in the dictionary and then try to string the definitions together, which is probably what you are doing, mostly That is like reading English without any prepositions or verbal endings. (For example: "it be like read English any preposition verbal ending.") For nouns, adjectives, and verbs (and some other forms) each Russian word usually provides at least 2 English words of information, and with the difference in word order what you perceive if you ignore the inflections is an unconnected mess, so that any sort of complex sentence becomes meaningless.

That is not a very Steve-like answer, I don't think, and maybe he'll have a better one. Perhaps some easy Russian materials can be found on LingQ as a transition for you. But you must pay attention to the inflection of words if you want to get beyond baby sentences. That is much less so in Spanish, which has a more English-like word order, less non-verb inflection, and a greater amount of shared vocabulary, which is why Spanish seems easier.

Once you get used to reading/listening this way, you'll undoubtedly make good progress. It's mostly a matter of paying attention.

My answer will be similar but a little different to Ernie's. But then different people choose different approaches to language learning.

The simple answer is that in my experience, it is only with enough exposure that the patterns of any new language, the way words come together to create meaning, start to become familiar. This means that you go through a considerable period when the language is unclear. This is true at first with beginner material, and then once again when you move into authentic material.

Fortunately most languages have a lot of redundant code, so that even with an imprecise knowledge of such grammar niceties as cases or prepositions, you get a sense of the meaning, understanding some contexts better than others.
You just need to persevere and not worry about what you don't understand. I find that even if I don't understand, or even misunderstand a text, it does not really matter. I just need to press on, reading and listening, with the confidence that what is unclear today will eventually become clearer if I stay with it. I enjoyed reading Tolstoy, or a biography of Stalin, in Russian even when my understanding was not very precise. It was my interpretation of what I read. That is why I do not like doing comprehension tests. I consider my relationship to the text to be personal. The second time I read the same material, some months later, I will have a new interpretation, no problem.

Of course you need to be aware of the grammar. It is useful, at least for me, to review the grammar explanations at various stages of your learning. A summary view at the beginning and then the occasional review of specific areas that interest you. This might mean looking up cases in a grammar book, or via google on the Interent from time to time, or aspects of verbs, or tenses or whatever. However, in my experience it takes a long time for these rules to sink in, so that you will be still be a little in the fog in your reading and listening for quite a while. But just keep going.

The big advantage of authentic material is their interest. If you are interested in the subject, and stay with a limited range of interesting material, you will be motivated to continue and you will be better able to decipher the meaning. This will help you get used to the patterns of the language faster.

As to Spanish versus Russian, I think you should focus on the language that interests you the most. Russian is more difficult, in that the grammar is more complex, although verb tenses in Spanish are no piece of cake. It is also true that having to read in a less familiar alphabet also makes the language more difficult, and more tiring to read. They are both wonderful languages that open a window to an interesting world of culture, literature, food, music, and most of all people. I have found the study of Russian and access to that world to be a marvellous personal acquisition.

One more suggestion streeling. I suggest a two pass approach to lessons at LingQ. On the first pass save words to clear way the blue words. Then on the second pass save phrases, not only for phrases you need to learn, but also for sections that seem unclear. See what google translate gives you for the phrases. Google translate is mostly quite good, although occasionally throwing a clanger.

Thanks for your responses, they are very helpful. I know my Russian case endings are pretty bad!

By way of background I’ve always been fascinated with Russia – it’s politics, history, culture etc. I first started learning the Russian language a bit back-to-front. My speaking and pronunciation is relatively good for my level as I spent 18 months in Lithuania (not the greatest place to learn Russian and slowly dying out in the Baltics) but had regular (usually 2-3 times per week) 1:1 ‘tuition’ with the friend of a colleague from work (which wasn’t very formal and usually involved lots of attempted speaking on all sorts of topics and drinking tea). She spoke little English, so at first it was a struggle, but gradually over the weeks and months it became much easier to converse and I lived in an area where the majority of people were Russian. When I came back to the UK I didn’t have this regular contact with native speakers or the same motivation to improve so the weeks and months drifted by when I neglected it, or made excuses to myself not to do anything other than trying to do a bit of reading of online newspapers, listening to the radio etc. both of which I found too difficult. If I’m honest though I probably haven’t put enough time into it. I can pick a lot of words up, but just not quite enough to really understand some articles. I think if I can just get a little better, then I’ll break through into the next level and it’ll become a lot more enjoyable.

With Spanish I started leaning more traditionally through night classes in 2009 and have done a lot of work on my own – so I can read and understand reasonably well for my level, but have great difficulty speaking as we don’t really get much opportunity. So sometimes Russian words come out instead of Spanish. So in short, I read and listen in Spanish but speak in Russian! Ultimately I’m hoping to spend another year concentrating on Spanish and then intend to go back to Russian for a year or so and hope that the two languages will catch up with each other in a few years time. I like Spain and Spanish and travel to spain at least once a year, so that is more useful to me, but ultimately my true love is Russian. I try and go to a Russian-speaking country when I can, but this is probably once every 2 or 3 years.

My goals are relatively modest - to be able to read average-level newspaper articles, listen to TV news reports etc without too much difficulty or constantly hunting in dictionaries.

Thanks again.

streeling, have you started creating LingQs?