I have being living in Korea for almost 3 months now. I have been studying the language for 5 months and am able to speak a very basic level of Korean (just now I was able to reschedule a private lesson and relate the reasons why entirely in Korean).
When I first arrived I had the naive view that if someone was exposed to a language for long enough they would just 'pick it up' naturally. If someone told me they had been here for 2 or 3 years I would immediately ask if they spoke Korean, and they would reply that they didn't. I have met a lot of expat teachers here, and I know 1 that speaks Korean, a Nigerian who lives here and has been here for 9 years. He said that he learned by studying 'very very hard' for 2 years straight. I was out in Busan last weekend and shocked a group of Korean students when I started speaking to them in Korean. They could not believe a foreigner was actually learning their language. They say that even their University professors do not bother with the language.
I have met expats who have been here for 5 years who can't speak Korean. Lasy weekend I met an expat who has been here for 9 years who could not speak Korean. These people have undoubtedly been exposed to many thousands of hours of Korean and can't speak past a tourist level.
Apart from being personally disgusted (yes, disgusted) at the indifference of many of the expats here I am also shocked at just how long one can live in a place and yet pick up almost none of the language.

I suppose my question is, do you believe emersion is overrated when it comes to language learning?

(Also to anyone whose interested in answering: Have you found that expats generally have little to no interest in learning the language of the country their in or is it just Anglophones in Korea?)

“I have met *a lot* of expat teachers here . . .” (emphasis mine).

I see that as a problem. Cut down the amount of time you hang out with expats (of any sort), and you’re going to be much better off in terms of your language skills.

Otherwise, it’s not really “exposure” or “immersion.”

@astamoore

I appreciate your advice but I did not ask for any in the post. Nor did I indicate that I spend time with expats, merely that I have met a lot of them. Though I think you are right when you suggest that language skills will not develop within the confines of an expat bubble. The vast majority of expats here do not have Korean friends that they hang out with outside of work.
At the same time though it's not enough to say 'spend less time with the expats.' It is difficult for expats here to make friends with Koreans, largely due to the language barrier. I have only very recently been confident enough in my Korean to begin speaking to Koreans who I meet when I'm out at the weekend. Before that I've just been studying on my own.

Immersion is definitely not overrated.. The Spanish/French/Portuguese that I've read on the page is nothing like the vernacular you hear on the streets of Miami/Paris/São Paulo..

I only feel as though I really ¨speak¨ Spanish because I have had opportunities to be immersed in Spanish-speaking environments. I think you can create that environment more artificially through Skype chats and the like, but there's no substitute, in my opinion, for being in locations where natives use the language every day. That doesn't mean, however, that you don't have to study just as hard on your own in order to take advantage of an immersion opportunity.

Here is a very relevant AJATT article.

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/if-im...

e·mer·sion/iˈmərZHən/
Noun:
The process or state of emerging from or being out of water after being submerged.
The reappearance of a celestial body after its eclipse or occultation.
Synonyms:
emergence - appearance

I guess you mean immersion.

Most expats do not learn the local language in places where I have lived like Hong Kong and Japan.

In my view you cannot learn the language just by walking around and starting to talk to people, despite what our Irish friend says. It takes a deliberate effort. You need to create your own language world, one that you control, before you can expose yourself to the real world and expect to learn well. In fact your own language world can take you quite far. I learned Mandarin in Hong Kong to a decent level in less than a year of very intense study although Hong Kong is not a Mandarin speaking environment. In Japan I deliberately did a lot of listening and reading to things of interest to me, even as I had more and more opportunity, and an increasing ability, to speak with locals. Unlike Dubyah, I do not find that the "real" language is such a challenge if you prepare yourself properly and are prepared to stumble around a little.

Yo can do a lot on your own. Many of the language students I met in China when I did my lecture tour promoting my book some 8 years ago spoke much better English than 90% of immigrants from China that I meet in Vancouver.

Thanks for your answers guys. @danchan that article you provided is excellent. Also thanks Steve for the correction.

Steve is right on the money there. Nothing to add.

Bonnenouvellejonny,

I dont think immersion is overrated. If you know how to take advantage of your situation i think immersion is one of the best ways to progress fast in the language you're studying. But immersion alone is not enough at all. You need motivation to learn , you need to put in many hours of study and only then will immersion be worth it. Most expats will learn the the sentences they need to get by and if they spend enough time here through immersion they will naturally learn a few things here and there. But without any deliberate study or anykind they will not just Absorb the language by sitting on a park bench and listening to people without any supplemental studying.

I've been studying korean on and off ( mostly off) for the last 5+ years. When i look back at it all, I havent studied much and it probably amounts to mostly Listening practice ( thousands of hours) and then some reading , few months on lingq , some speaking ( on a very very basic level). All that shows in my knowledge of the language and ON top of that I've been living in Korea since last year april and I've barely done any studying since. I can say that the listening has come in VERY HANDY and that even now I'm picking up words that I've studied a long time ago but out of no where i hear it and it just "clicks". Me being immersed has Helped with my korean and I've got a huge passive vocabulary. HOWEVER don't ask me to have a conversation other than for basics. Words just don't come out of my mouth and it has nothing to do with pronunciation because my korean pronunciation is quite decent for a "foreigner". Its more to do with the lack actually putting in time into the language.

Anyways, Generally speaking most expats that come teach English in Korea have absolutely no interest in the language. They come here short term. The ones that stay here longer and still dont learn probably either have no interest in the language and they can get by just fine without Korean OR they just don't have time to study ( like me) not enough motivation or they keep putting it off for 9+ years and they just give up.=) In my case, other than listening to korean, I just haven't had ANY time whatsoever to actively study Korean. I know i could become fluent in the language if i put in the time. But thats a big IF and unfortunately I just dont have the time. I definitely need to sort out my priorities and start putting in the time because i'll be living in korea for a while longer....

I can also see that teaching english in korea ( which i don't do) you get paid to speak english and I can see it would be easy to only surround yourself with other english teaching friends after hours or just going home and watching your downloaded english tv shows and then 5+ years has passed and you still dont know korean past a tourist level.

Also, I think theres a good number of expats that do put in the time to learn the language even just for fun or trying to meet people. I wouldn't go by the "shocking" reactions you get from koreans of you learning their language... Koreans are "shocked" at some of the most basic things such as how we can eat kimchi, that we eat spicy food, that we know how to hold chopsticks, that we dont eat hamburgers everyday etc... I think in general most ( some dont...) expats do go through the phase of trying to learn the language even at the most basic level. The issue is ... theres probably a tiny tiny tiny tiny microscoping % of expats that actually do end up learning the language to an intermediate + level and I'm sure this carries over to anyone who tries to learn new language. Most people end up giving up and dont make it past a beginner basic knowledge level.

soooo umm yeah immersion is good for you but just because you live in the country and you're surrounded by the language 24/7 doesn't mean you'll learn the language. Expats are great at creating bubbles around themselves, putting on earphones to listen to english music , english podcasts , watch english tv etc.. Bascially block out everything. Theres more to immersion than just being in the country and surrounded by the language. You actually need to put an effort ...

Immersion is not overrated.
What is overrated is the idea that living in the country where the target language is spoken means immersion.

I am living in Thailand since 9 months, and my Thai is much better (according to the locals) than the other expats' one living here since more than 15 years. Why ?

Because I watch Thai TV while they watch CNN or Skynews.
Because I read Thai newspapers/books while they read English newspapers/books.
Because I speak Thai everyday as soon I have the opportunity to do so while they live in a total English environment.
Etc .....

Immersion doesn't mean "living in a foreign country".
Immersion, like Steve pointed out earlier, means "doing everything (reading, listening, writing, speaking) in the target language".

You can create this immersion anywhere (ex. : Steve learning Mandarin in a Cantonese speaking city).