Question for a native German speaker...

Is it truly very difficult to distinguish between the pronunciations of the vowel letters "E" and "I" in German, or are my tin 44-year-old English-native ears just not able detect the difference? I've listened to this recording many times, and unfortunately I cannot hear any difference in the sounds...

Thanks for any insight!

I've checked the lesson. The "E" and the "I" are well pronounced.
The German "I" is pronounced like the English "E". Probably that confuses you.
The German "E" is pronunced differently.

For the German "E" we have (at least) 3 different pronunciations:

1. The short and stressed "E": pronounced like the German short "Ä" (almost like the English "E" in "tent")

Examples: "bellen" and "fällen": the first "e" in "bellen" is pronounced the same way
as the "ä" in "fällen" - a short and open vowel.

2. The long and stressed "E": pronounced like the single "E" in the alphabet (so it's no open vowel).

Examples: the first "E" in "Feder" or in "sehen".

3. The unstressed "E": pronounced almost like the English unstressed "e", so something between "E" and "Ö".

Examples: "aber", the second "E" in "Feder".

As in many other countries, we have a lot of different dialects. So the pronunciation is certainly not always the same.

@il_melomane70: Thank you for the further explanation. The lesson above includes only the German alphabet. Therefore my answer referred to the pronunciation in the alphabet only. And there is a clear difference between the pronunciation of the "E" and the "I" in this lesson.

But you're right. In spoken language is a variety how "E" is pronounced.

Thank you both for reviewing the lesson and offering your clarifications! It must just be my lack of exposure to hearing the German alphabet enough. I was able to clearly differentiate between the "E" and "I" in the singing version of the alphabet, but I still have trouble with the spoken alphabet. Last month, I returned from a trip to Freiburg to visit a close friend who is a native German, and I had difficulty understanding her when she tried to help me by spelling words for me that I did not understand. I was unable to distinguish between "E" and "I" when she spelled the words out loud to me.

It seems to me, while listening both to her and the recording, that the spoken letter "E" sounds very much like the spoken letter "I"; in other words, to my ears, they both sound to me like the American English "Eee". However, in the singing lesson immediately after the spoken lesson, the "E" sounds more like I would think it should: A is "Ah", E is "Eh", I is "Eee" (transcribed the way the German sounds hit the ear of an American-English-speaking native). Apparently I'll have to listen many, many more times before I will be able to discern the difference when spoken.

However, since you both agree that the spoken lesson has these two vowels well-pronounced, I'll just have to keep listening until the difference becomes apparent, or until I realize that I will never be able to tell the difference!

Accidental double-post, please disregard.

I'm from Italy and I have the same problem you had: I can't see the difference between the pronunciation of "i" and "e"!

Just keep listening, the difference is clearly audible in that lesson. The way she pronounces the E and I is how it is done when you say the letters of the alphabet. So just keep listening to other texts and only then go back to this short lesson. The difference will become clear to your ears!

I spoke along and and found that the mouth is much wider, with a tight throat when I pronounce the German 'I' - for the 'E' the mouth is more relaxed. Try listening to yourself in those positions. Do you produce different sounds?

Good luck!

The German letter E in the alphabet is pronounced simular to the a in ate in English. The German letter I in the alphabet is pronounced simular to the e in eat.

Most people I've heard have said "ate" the same way as "eight" (rhymes with late, bait and so on), and the German E is NOT a diphtong.

(...) As in many other countries, we have a lot of different dialects. So the pronunciation is certainly not always the same. (...)

I think it is important to keep this in mind. As for the "E" and "I" right now I cannot think of an example where I would pronounce them in a way which would make them sound similar.

There are many local or regional variants as "il melomane 70" pointed out. I still remember that an Italian once told me that my pronunciation of "zwanzig" was not correct in German ;-)

He was taught to pronounce it as "zwanziCH" while we in Austria pronounce it as "zwanziG". Neither of these two versions is the only "correct" one. Most foreigners simply study German with books published by German publishing houses. So, it is quite natural that what we in Austria call "Bundesdeutsch" (as opposed to "österreichischem Deutsch" for example) is the variant most commonly taught but that does not make it the only correct variant.

There are also differences as for the syllables we stress. While the Germans say KAffee we say KaffEE.

So, my advice would be to simply try and imitate native speakers. You won't hear all the (subtle) differences right away. This takes time. Personally, I would not spend too much time on theoretical explanations (no matter how accurate they may be) but listen a lot and read a lot aloud. But your learning style might be different. You simply need to find out what you feel most comfortable with. I always disliked reading ABOUT how to use a language, I'd rather just give it a try and USE it myself, no matter how mediocre the result may be at the beginning. As time goes by (and with lots of practice) you'll get better. This goes also for detecting the difference between "E" and "I".

It surprised me when this thread suddenly jumped into life a couple of days ago--I'm hoping that I've made some progess in my listening comprehension since stumbling over the E vs I problem last summer! Last November I made another trip to Germany for the month, and I took advantage of the local bookstores to pick up a lot of other listening material in German to add to what I've been using from LingQ, such as several Til Schweiger DVDs (Keinohrhasen, Zweiohrkueken, Kokowaeaeh), Sabine Kuegler's Dschungelkind on CD and in print, a couple of seasons of Verbotene Liebe on DVD, and several different titles of A2-B1 level books on CD by Leonhard Thoma (my favorites are Der Hundetraum und Andere Verwirrungen, and Das Idealpaar, both of which contain several amusing stories).

Unfortunately, my German studies have taken a back seat during this past year to my work on my accounting degree (which is yet another language!), but after I graduate in November, I'll be back to puzzling out the German Es and Is at full force again! In the meantime, I'm listeining to or watching the above materials and also the LingQ recordings to at least keep from backsliding.

It makes me feel better to know that Italians don't always have a clear ear for the difference between German Es and Is either. I'm of 25% Italian ancestry, but perhaps my ears are 100%!

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and the very enlightening, sympathetic responses!

(...) I'm from Italy and I have the same problem you had: I can't see the difference between the pronunciation of "i" and "e"! (...)

To be honest, as a native speaker of German I never thought this would be a problem but I guess it is for people learning German as a foreign language (just as we have our difficulties when it comes to hearing the difference between "d" and "t" in Italian ;-).

I now also understand why so many of my language partners confuse "lieben" with "leben" (especially when they are still beginners).

I often hear them say "Ich liebe in - name of the country - " instead of "Ich lebe in - name of the country -".

ad mafraserg17: It was only after your last post that I noticed that you asked your original question last year.

You have bought a great selection of useful audio material. I'm sure that will help you make the progress you are hoping for. All the best :-)